Factor Military Duty into Criticism

[forrestkc]

And, as always, you don't stick to the subject at hand, you take it off on a tangent about other things or other people. All the people you mentioned, as a side show, have nothing to do with Obama and Reverend Wright and their positions. Try and focus. We are talking about Obama, not anyone else.

Thats the point. You guys want to bash Obama, or for that matter anyone with the (D) after their name, but not anyone else. Like I say, selective indignation.

[hr.jr.]

I fail to see the difference between the hateful rants of Reverend Wright, and the hateful rants that guys like John Hagee, Pat Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell, and some others on the religious right have spewed over the years. Republican nominees and presidents, even the current one, have practically begged for those guys support. They all but kneel at their feet come election year. Yet every one of them has said and done things over the years that are every bit as controversial and hateful as Reverend Wright. Of course, indignation is often selective. Your man can have a hatemongering and controversial rich evangelist over for dinner at the Whitehouse, even let them spend the night, and you see nothing wrong with it, but let the other candidate's preacher say something just as hateful, and oh the indignation flows like a river.

That is just pure nonsense. The named figures are controversial, but they do not convey racism or hate. Please quote hate speech by any of the three above. They are intolerant of sin, but they hate no one.

[hr.jr.]

And, as always, you don't stick to the subject at hand, you take it off on a tangent about other things or other people. All the people you mentioned, as a side show, have nothing to do with Obama and Reverend Wright and their positions. Try and focus. We are talking about Obama, not anyone else.

Thats the point. You guys want to bash Obama, or for that matter anyone with the (D) after their name, but not anyone else. Like I say, selective indignation.

We like to "bash" anyone who is a blatent hypocrite. My favorite politician of all time had a (D) in front of his name; Zell Miller. He had enough sense to say that "when I held my first grand child I realized abortion was murder not choice."

[forrestkc]

I fail to see the difference between the hateful rants of Reverend Wright, and the hateful rants that guys like John Hagee, Pat Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell, and some others on the religious right have spewed over the years. Republican nominees and presidents, even the current one, have practically begged for those guys support. They all but kneel at their feet come election year. Yet every one of them has said and done things over the years that are every bit as controversial and hateful as Reverend Wright. Of course, indignation is often selective. Your man can have a hatemongering and controversial rich evangelist over for dinner at the Whitehouse, even let them spend the night, and you see nothing wrong with it, but let the other candidate's preacher say something just as hateful, and oh the indignation flows like a river.

That is just pure nonsense. The named figures are controversial, but they do not convey racism or hate. Please quote hate speech by any of the three above. They are intolerant of sin, but they hate no one.

"And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."

-Jerry Falwell blaming 9/11 on feminists, gays, lesbians, and liberals.

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

-Jerry Falwell

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's charioteers."

-Jerry Falwell

"I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either. "

-Pat Robertson

"I don't agree with it ... but ... they've got 1.2 billion people, and they don't know what to do. If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be completely unsustainable.... They're doing what they have to do."

-Pat Robertson defending China's disastrous One Child Policy

"I think "one man, one vote," just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."

-Pat Robertson defending South African Apartheid

"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history."

-Pat Robertson comparing liberals and Democrats to Nazis during the Holocaust.

"I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that."

-John Hagee on Hurricane Katrina

Of course he has also called the Catholic Church the "Great Whore" and placed blame on it for the Holocaust.

These are a but a select few gems from these guys. I only provided one quote of Robertson defending Apartheid, and did not even go into his defending Charles Taylor, a maniacal dictator charged with crimes against humanity. If it isn't hate-mongering then what is it.

Like I say, selective indignation. If your going to bash Obama for his association with Reverend Wright, then you need to set aside plenty of time to go after the guys with an R after their name for their association with figures like Robertson, Falwell, and the rest of them.

[followerofjesus]

T.V. evangelist for the most part are teaching a false message. Two wrongs don't make a right. We should choose the best American regardless of political affiliation. We must choose who holds the American people best interests. Mr. MCcain spent six years in a prison camp reduced to the lowest form of humanity. He is qualified for leadership although he's a little old. What has Obama done that qualifies him for leadership other than making feel good speeches?

[hr.jr.]

I fail to see the difference between the hateful rants of Reverend Wright, and the hateful rants that guys like John Hagee, Pat Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell, and some others on the religious right have spewed over the years. Republican nominees and presidents, even the current one, have practically begged for those guys support. They all but kneel at their feet come election year. Yet every one of them has said and done things over the years that are every bit as controversial and hateful as Reverend Wright. Of course, indignation is often selective. Your man can have a hatemongering and controversial rich evangelist over for dinner at the Whitehouse, even let them spend the night, and you see nothing wrong with it, but let the other candidate's preacher say something just as hateful, and oh the indignation flows like a river.

That is just pure nonsense. The named figures are controversial, but they do not convey racism or hate. Please quote hate speech by any of the three above. They are intolerant of sin, but they hate no one.

"And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."

-Jerry Falwell blaming 9/11 on feminists, gays, lesbians, and liberals.

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

-Jerry Falwell

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's charioteers."

-Jerry Falwell

"I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either. "

-Pat Robertson

"I don't agree with it ... but ... they've got 1.2 billion people, and they don't know what to do. If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be completely unsustainable.... They're doing what they have to do."

-Pat Robertson defending China's disastrous One Child Policy

"I think "one man, one vote," just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."

-Pat Robertson defending South African Apartheid

"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history."

-Pat Robertson comparing liberals and Democrats to Nazis during the Holocaust.

"I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that."

-John Hagee on Hurricane Katrina

Of course he has also called the Catholic Church the "Great Whore" and placed blame on it for the Holocaust.

These are a but a select few gems from these guys. I only provided one quote of Robertson defending Apartheid, and did not even go into his defending Charles Taylor, a maniacal dictator charged with crimes against humanity. If it isn't hate-mongering then what is it.

Like I say, selective indignation. If your going to bash Obama for his association with Reverend Wright, then you need to set aside plenty of time to go after the guys with an R after their name for their association with figures like Robertson, Falwell, and the rest of them.

None of those posts are hate speech, they are intolerance of sin. You did twist Pat Robertson's words on two counts. He never supporter aparthaid. Furthermore, he was supportng the policy of birth control, not the policy of abortion in China. I agree with none of your added commentary, but the quotes were not hate filled. As a side note, the Catholc church probably is the Great Whore.

He defended Charles Taylor because Taylor protected the religious freedom of the Christians in Liberia. The country has really improved since Taylor gave up power, has it not.

[forrestkc]

So basically what you guys are saying is that its ok for a candidate to associate themselves and court the support of religious leaders that preach hate against liberals, Democrats, gays, lesbians, feminists, Catholics, and so on, but its not at all acceptable for Obama to have a preacher that says bad things against white people.

If one is bad, which it is, then the other is, which it is. If your going to have thread after thread calling out the guys with the D after their name, then you need to start calling out the guys with the R after their name.

[forrestkc]

So basically what you guys are saying is that its ok for a candidate to associate themselves and court the support of religious leaders that preach hate against liberals, Democrats, gays, lesbians, feminists, Catholics, and so on, but its not at all acceptable for Obama to have a preacher that says bad things against white people.

If one is bad, which it is, then the other is, which it is. If your going to have thread after thread calling out the guys with the D after their name, then you need to start calling out the guys with the R after their name.

I'm sorry that you find people speaking out openly and clearly against sin repugnant. Speaking out against sin, in any form it manifests itself is not hate speech, it is necessary and called for. Once again, there is a focus away from the real issue. Wright's diatrabes are racially motivated. He speaks out against whites and Jews. Being a homosexual, having lax and fluctuating moral stances, and teaching false doctrine are all sins. Being white or Jewish or black or any other race is not a sin.

Your whole last sentence sounds like a grade school kid crying "Don't pick on my Democrats!!!!" You obviously have not paid attention, because I do not fall within either party line, or blindly support either party. Once again, smoke and mirrrors. "I can talk bad about Republicans, but don't pick on Liberals."

Those guys were not talking about sin, they were blaming 9/11 on liberals, gays, and feminists. Thats hate speech. They are not talking about sin, they are calling Catholics the Great Whore. Is supporting Apartheid and China's One Child Policy talking about sin? Come on.

If you will notice early on I condemned Wrights remarks and stated that Obama used extremely poor judgement when he remained a member of the church. My point is that these forums are basically now a place to go and bash Obama rather than anything objective. After all, as I stated even though we have seen no telling how many threads on here about Obama and Reverend Wright, its not like we see to many threads on here about Republican close associations with reverends that supported Apartheid and China's One Child Policy.

[kat8585]

but homosexuality and abortion are sins, and they need to be spoken out against, in the strongest possible terms, as often as is required, just as any other sin needs to be spoken out against. Speaking out against sin is not even comparable to being racist, now is it? And once again, and write this down so you will remember it: Pointing out Obama's shortcomings, and bad positions, considering he says he is a Christian, is not "bashing" as you keep labeling it. It is expedient and necessary, considering what is at stake.

[kat8585]

So basically what you guys are saying is that its ok for a candidate to associate themselves and court the support of religious leaders that preach hate against liberals, Democrats, gays, lesbians, feminists, Catholics, and so on, but its not at all acceptable for Obama to have a preacher that says bad things against white people.

If one is bad, which it is, then the other is, which it is. If your going to have thread after thread calling out the guys with the D after their name, then you need to start calling out the guys with the R after their name.

It's hate for the sin., not the people. One who espouses these is not qualified to be president.