Bold Believer

No, that's NOT right! The New Jerusalem, Yerushalayim haChadashah in Hebrew, will be a huge, literal city that descends to the New Earth AFTER the Fire's renovation of the earth. It's not "cube-like"; it will most likely be pyramidal because of its size! Everything outside of the New Jerusalem, God's HOUSE, will be the beautiful New Earth, God's BACKYARD! Just because Yochanan noted that there was "no more sea" does not mean that there will be no more WATER! To the contrary, he may have simply been talking about the Mediterranean Sea that was separating him from his loved ones in Yeshua` who were on the mainland of Asia Minor, today known as Turkey. Indeed, if the New Jerusalem is centered upon the coordinates for the Old City, its weight will raise the surrounding land, creating new hills and mountains and drive the Mediterranean Sea back to the Atlantic! Furthermore, the Water of Life will flow out of the twelve gateways of the city, which will then always stand open as the twelve gates are permanently rolled away from their entrances. There WILL be water on the New Earth! Furthermore, the New Jerusalem will dwarf any mountain on the face of the earth, new or old! With a city that is 1,500 miles by 1,500 miles sitting on a square surface; that is, it covers a square footprint - it "LIETH FOURSQUARE" - we're talking about a structure that has a 6,000-mile perimeter! Having only twelve gates, that means that the distance between gates from center of gate to center of gate will be 500 MILES, even around a corner! We are also told that this city will be aligned with north for the city has four sides, each one related to one of the four compass directions. (This confirms that the city will land, btw.) We are also told that there will be three gates on each side. This uses the model of the city described by Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) that Yeshua` will build during the Millennium found in Ezekiel 48:30-35: Ezekiel 48:30-35 30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures. 31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi. 32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. 33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun. 34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali. 35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there. (Hebrew: YHWH shaamah). KJV Revelation 21:10-16 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven (Greek: ouranos = the "sky") from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs (Greek: stadioi = Latin: stadia; 1 stadios = 1 stadium = 660 feet). The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. KJV 12,000 stadioi x (660 feet / 1 stadios) x (1 mile / 5,280 feet) = 1,500 miles. Thus, I believe that the New Jerusalem will have a similar construction. From the northwest corner going eastward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Re`uven. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Y'hudah. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Leviy, and then 250 more miles to the northeast corner. Going south from the northeast corner, one will have another 250 miles and then the gate of Yosef. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Bin-Yamiyn. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Dan, and then 250 miles to the southeast corner. From the southeast corner going westward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Shim`own. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Yissachar. After another 500 miles from there, will be the third gate of Z'vulun, and then 250 more miles will lead one to the southwest corner. Going north from that corner 250 miles one will come to the gate of Gad. After another 500 miles from that gate, there will be the middle gate of Asher. After another 500 miles northward, one will come to the gate of Naftaliy, and 250 miles more, one will come to where the journey began at the northwest corner of the city! Furthermore, this city is said to be 1,500 miles HIGH! Since Mount Everest is only 5.5 miles high, we're talking about a city that is 272.7 times higher than the highest peak on the present earth! First, I believe that the New Earth will be a renovation of the present earth, much as the present earth was a renovation of the antediluvian earth, the earth before the Flood of Noah's time. As such, the dimensions will not change significantly. So, I believe that the New Earth will have about a 24,902-mile circumference as the present earth does. This means that 1,500 miles will cover 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference! That means several things: First, that the direction for "down" on one side of the city will be 21.685 degrees different than the direction for "down" on the opposite side of the city! (This is why a cube won't work. It will either not be truly cubical or it won't look cubical.) Second, that means that the direction for "down" in the center of the city will be 21.685 / 2 = 10.8425 degrees different than "down" at the center of any of the four sides of the city. Third, that means that some of the gates won't even be in the same time zone as other gates! (Each time zone is roughly 15 degrees.) Fourth, consider this: since we are talking about the curvature of the earth as the earth "falls away" from the plain assumed as "level" at the center of the city, it will be even MORE pronounced at the corners of the city! Thus, a much greater number of degrees separates the center to a corner and from corner to opposite corner! Finally, we are talking about a four-sided pyramid (I believe) that is 1,500 miles high at the pinnacle Take a nail and a globe and use the mileage scale on the globe to determine how long 1,500 miles would be. (My globe uses 660 miles = 1 inch; therefore, my nail needs to be at least 1,500 miles x (1 inch / 660 miles) = 2 3/11 inches long.) Center the nail at Jerusalem with that height to the head, attempting to keep it perpendicular to the earth's surface at that point and then tilt the globe around from various points of view to see when you lose being able to see the top of the nail. This is the distance in that direction that you could still see the pinnacle of the city from the surface of the earth! I can still see it from portions of Morocco, and eastern China, east and west, and from north and south, from Norway to Zimbabwe! ALL OF THIS TERRITORY can directly see the pinnacle of the city! Even beyond that, the light of the city will still be visible! If Yeshua`s light will "outshine the sun," even WITH a sun, the Sun of Righteousness will drive out the night from that side of the earth! That's why I SO enjoy this verse: Isaiah 24:23 23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. KJV Even though we are told that "the city will have no need for the sun or the moon," we are NOT told that there will be no more sun or moon, nor are we told that the rest of the earth won't have need for the sun or the moon. This verse uses personification, but if we take away the personification, it tells us that the moon shall be mixed up (in its phases) and the sun shall be outdone for brightness! How neat is it going to be to see TWO phases on the moon at once, based on its position relative to the sun and relative to the New Jerusalem?! Don't be so quick to give up on the literal point of view! In all of what you write, the most interesting thing is that the city spans EVERY KNOWN PEOPLE GROUP, light skinned Norwegian/Scandinavians, dark skinned Africans, brown skinned Middle Easterners and Indians, red skinned Native Americans and yellow skinned Asians, when you draw out the geometric figure. God's CHURCH is composed of every people group. Hebrews 12:22 tells us that we've come to the heavenly Jerusalem. I still don't follow the pyramid analogy, since Yochannan describes it as a cube, but he's not describing a literal city. It's real, composed of real people, and when it comes down, it will occupy space on the New Earth, but I still believe the cube of equal measurements refers to the perfection of those just men made perfect.

The purpose and length of the covenant aren't mentioned IN THIS TEXT. Notice: he confirms a covenant. He doesn't make a covenant. The covenant is already established. Where? IN ANOTHER TEXT, specifically Jeremiah 31:34. Furthermore, the Book of Hebrews tells us that Christ was the one who confirmed the new covenant in Heb 12:24, which I will give here to clarify: It is written: ..."to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel." Now look if you will at the word Mediator; it is the word mesites which means: one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant I cite also Heb 9:14 through chapter end, specifically verse 18, where it is written: Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. It is the death of Christ which confirms the covenant. So when Daniel speaks of One who confirms a covenant, he is most definitely referring to the New Covenant, spoken of by Jeremiah.

[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. that one week is 7 years long Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow. You also write: "This thread is misleading and false. Daniel's 70th week is the final 7 years before Christs return to earth. You say the thread is misleading and false, then add your own falsehood to it, compounding the problem. Daniel's 70th week is not the final 7 years. There was much to come after it. Daniels 70th week is a 7 year time period (correct) with a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and her enemies that guranteees peace & security for Israel (utterly false, the covenant is never said to be a peace treaty, nor is there any mention of peace and security in the text) and the midpoint in that 7 year period the man of sin, son of perdition , the man of lawlessness breaks the treaty and starts killing Jews in the area of Judea ,,which is why scricpture tells them to flee to the wilderness /mountains and do not spend time going to get things from their houses ,,if they do they will die ,,it is that urgent, it takes place by surprise, the son of perdition , the man of lawlessness goes into the temple stops the sacrifices , proclaims to the world that he is messiah , he claims to be God and demands that all people worldwide worship him , he sets up an image that can be accessed worldwide; if they refuse to woirship him they will be executed and die ...shortly after this begins the wrath of God takes place , the last half of the 7 year period is Great tribulation leading into Gods wrath on all inhabitants of earth for rejecting Christ and refusing to accept Christ as savoir , so bad that if Jesus did not return then all flesh would die ,(For God's sake man, l wish you would learn proper English. This run on nightmare makes no sense at all. The man of sin is never mentioned here, at all. Period. It's not in the text. You have inserted it, making a mess of the text. but at the very end of the 7 year period Jesus does return to save Israel from total destruction and destroys all of Israels enemies , Jesus starts his 1000 year reign ,,,the saints that return with Jesus are His Kingdom that rule and reign with Him for the 1000 year time period , during the 1000 years satan is bound in the pit totally unable to deceive the nations , then near the end of the 1000 years he is loosed to deceive the nations and all that satan is able to deceive and follow him get thrown into the lake of fire forever,,,then the restoration of all things happens and the planet becomes like the Garden of Eve and only followers of Christ are on earth and are Gods family and thus begins all things new for eternity ,,sin will never again exist for Gods family , God will once again walk on earth with his family because sin will no longer separate God from his family More mish-mash and confusion. None of the things you write here are in the text. They are not even alluded to in the text. When you comment on a text...STICK TO THE TEXT. Here you are again showing your lack of knowledge and understanding but yet trying to criticize me ,,,, You have a very serious problem with comprehending the simplicity of reading this very clear scripture 27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. that one week is 7 years long notice the key words ,then the same scripture goes on to say that in the midst of that week.....you simply do not understand what scripture plainly teaches the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate it is just as if you sign a lease and confirm it for 36 months ,,,plain as day the covenant IS established for one week,,,a 7 year period ,,you need some serious study since you are unable to grasp what this simple phrase means , The rest is bible scripture , how many times does it take in proving you wrong before you begin to learn and understand ,,I have provided scipture that proves what I said is true and accurate many many times and you are always shown the error of your false thinking,,, You cannot at all prove what I say wrong ,,it is your inability to see clearly Every time I prove what I say to be correct, supported by scripture...proving you wrong ,,you simply vanish because you are not able to answer the questions I ask of you without admitting that what I show is accurate You told me that when I said the term "man of sin" that it was not scripture that it was not even in the bible ,you claim I made it up ,,but when I proved to you that you are wrong and provided scripture proof , your pride got bent,,,you simply will not accept scripture proof , nor admit when you are wrong, even when scripture is given to you You simply have a false teaching a false understanding,,,and too much pride to acknowledge your flawed thinking Shall we do it again?? 1. When I use the term 'the text' I mean whatever portion of Scripture is being spoken of, not the whole Bible. The term man of sin is not in Daniel 9:22-28, which is the body of text we're discussing. 2. I am pretty familiar with Daniel 9:22-28. It is a key eschatological Scripture. 3. All you are doing Daniel, is quoting the teachings of the pre-trib/pre-mil guys, not Scripture. You filter EVERYTHING through their teaching. Most people who believe in your understanding do just that. No offense, but you all sound like parrots. LaHaye, van Impe, and those guys say something, and everyone who believes their teaching quotes it. That's fine...IF you trust them. Personally, I've been there and after comparing their teaching to SCRIPTURE, they come up short. I don't trust their teaching, IT DOESN'T MATCH SCRIPTURE. 4. I suggest (after you learn to express yourself in English without half a page of run on sentence) that you learn to study FOR YOURSELF and not through J. N. Darby's (and Cy Scofield, and Harry Ironside, and Tim LaHaye, et al) filter. You will find that while I may not be 100% right, they are definitely incorrect as well...SERIOUSLY SO. The original poster and I have disagreements as well, but he's right, the tribulation was NOT seven years. It WAS 3.5 years, 1260 days on a 360-day year calendar.

[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. that one week is 7 years long Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow. You also write: "This thread is misleading and false. Daniel's 70th week is the final 7 years before Christs return to earth. You say the thread is misleading and false, then add your own falsehood to it, compounding the problem. Daniel's 70th week is not the final 7 years. There was much to come after it. Daniels 70th week is a 7 year time period (correct) with a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and her enemies that guranteees peace & security for Israel (utterly false, the covenant is never said to be a peace treaty, nor is there any mention of peace and security in the text) and the midpoint in that 7 year period the man of sin, son of perdition , the man of lawlessness breaks the treaty and starts killing Jews in the area of Judea ,,which is why scricpture tells them to flee to the wilderness /mountains and do not spend time going to get things from their houses ,,if they do they will die ,,it is that urgent, it takes place by surprise, the son of perdition , the man of lawlessness goes into the temple stops the sacrifices , proclaims to the world that he is messiah , he claims to be God and demands that all people worldwide worship him , he sets up an image that can be accessed worldwide; if they refuse to woirship him they will be executed and die ...shortly after this begins the wrath of God takes place , the last half of the 7 year period is Great tribulation leading into Gods wrath on all inhabitants of earth for rejecting Christ and refusing to accept Christ as savoir , so bad that if Jesus did not return then all flesh would die ,(For God's sake man, l wish you would learn proper English. This run on nightmare makes no sense at all. The man of sin is never mentioned here, at all. Period. It's not in the text. You have inserted it, making a mess of the text. but at the very end of the 7 year period Jesus does return to save Israel from total destruction and destroys all of Israels enemies , Jesus starts his 1000 year reign ,,,the saints that return with Jesus are His Kingdom that rule and reign with Him for the 1000 year time period , during the 1000 years satan is bound in the pit totally unable to deceive the nations , then near the end of the 1000 years he is loosed to deceive the nations and all that satan is able to deceive and follow him get thrown into the lake of fire forever,,,then the restoration of all things happens and the planet becomes like the Garden of Eve and only followers of Christ are on earth and are Gods family and thus begins all things new for eternity ,,sin will never again exist for Gods family , God will once again walk on earth with his family because sin will no longer separate God from his family More mish-mash and confusion. None of the things you write here are in the text. They are not even alluded to in the text. When you comment on a text...STICK TO THE TEXT.

They are either a part of the New Jerusalem or in the Lake of Fire. And renewed is more correct than remodeled. The old earth will be burned away and all of its works as well, and the unsaved inhabitants will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

The NEW JERUSALEM is the redeemed. The cube like description given in Scripture isn't literal, but rather a concept of perfection. Perfect in height, width and length. The New Earth will have no sea. Anything outside of the New Jerusalem is the Lake of Fire, just as Ge-enna was outside of the literal city.

What seven year covenant? The length of the covenant is never stated. That is where gross errors enter in, when people insert things into the text that are not there. The 'He' is Jesus. The covenant confirmed was I believe the New Covenant (Heb 8:10 and 10:16), the covenant made after those days by which he would remember their sins no more. Jesus was being facetious in Jn 5:43. Jews considered a name authority, So when Jesus says he comes in His Father's name, He means God's authority. So when Jesus says if 'another' were to come in his own (human) authority, the Jews would receive Him, that's an indictment upon their faithlessness.

More alien space bats theories. It is impossible to separate a period of 7 years (the last portion of Daniel's 70th week) into two periods of time with 2000 plus years in between. It defies logic, and if God is anything, He is a God of logic. Everything God does makes sense to Him, and He is the only one to whom He has to make sense.

What do you expect when the inmates run the asylum?

1. I would like to see where you get that information?? Demonstrate that the ancients considered the head to be the neck. Otherwise, you are simply revising history and making up bold-faced lies. 2. I didn't contradict myself. You are simply incompetent when it comes to history and you repeatedly demonstrate. The Sanhedrin did not exercise Roman authority. They enforced Jewish law and exercised their own authority over Israel with Roman permission. They did not exert Roman authority. They were authorized by Rome to enforce Jewish law, not Roman law. Your attempt to make the Sanherin = The false prophet is really foolish and demonstrates how far you will go to distort facts in order to support your goofy eschatology. Try having some integrity for once instead of making junk up that has no basis in truth or reality. You just crossed my line Shiloh. I will thank you not to answer anymore of my posts. To assume I have no integrity simply because I disagree with your eschatology is wrong, to publicly state so is worse. After a little research, it appears that modern anatomy considers the head and neck together. Since modern medicine is derived from the ancients, the chances are reasonable that the ancient world considered the matter likewise...HOWEVER... An examination of the Greek text does not require the location of the wound. It merely states that one of the heads suffered a mortal wound. Since Nero DID suffer a mortal wound, my understanding is not flawed. As for whether the Sanhedrin exercised the authority of Rome, it stands to reason that if I am legally in charge, and I tell someone to do something, they are exercising my authority and not doing something of their own volition. Same situation with the Sanhedrin: They had no legal authority of any kind as a conquered people, unless the Romans gave them permission to do something.

Many things that you do not grasp properly ,,,the antichrist is a powerful person ,that has total control over the governmental system , no one but God has more power...there is NO reason whatsoever that would compel a man of that level of power to commit suicide ...the reason nero committed suicide is soley to avoid public humiliation of being flogged to death by men , appointed by the senate ,, it was nero cowardly way out of being publicly humiliated by being put to death by being flogged to death at the hands of others... ' often the beast is a kingdom or government , but sometimes satan is reffered to as the beast,, the horns of the beasts are kings .. literal human kings ,, government leaders ,,it is one of the heads the dragon is satan , also called the beast ,, you are trying to limit the matter to scriptures that you choose and the others you choose to exclude ,, Where did anyone bring real physical consuming fire down from heaven that was in nero power?? Revelation 13 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, Elijah the Prophet (1 Kings 18....a literal consuming fire !)had a contest to see who could do it , and only HE did with God providing this result ,, no one else was able to it .....in Revelation it is satan doing it to counterfiet the LORD in order to convince the people that he is God ,, it is part of the deception that God allows to punish the wicked non believers that reject Christ and show that Only Christ Jesus is LORD 1 Kings 18 22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.” Then all the people said, “What you say is good.” 25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made. 27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention. 30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.” 34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again. “Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench. 36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.” 38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench. 39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God. simply NOT a eupenism ,,again you refuse to acknowledge what scripture teaches.. You need to truly understand the scripture is a literal fire coming down from heaven ,, not some euphemism for worship as you want to think for that is making a false assumption that is not true,, real fire came down from heaven for Elijah the prophet,, it is real and you fail to understand the meaning of 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, very simple to understand ,, it is a literal fire that comes down from heaven "in the sight of men" people can see with their eyes this fire coming down from heaven ,, another reason why the nations marvel/wonder after him and say :"who can wage war with him?" since there is no weaponry that can compete with a man that has such power as to bring fire down from heaven on demand the antichrist is a man controlled by satan incarnate within him .. satan literally operating within a man, not just a demon spirit,, the man of sin... Description of the antichrist 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Revelation 13 4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. revelation 19 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. the antichrist..the son of perdition aka son of destruction,, the man of sin , man of lawlessness are all the same person , just various references of the same man scripture in no way shape or form limits the matter to the "civilized world " that is your misinterpretation ,,, rather it states specificalLY Every Tribe , Every Tongue/language, Every Nation, ALL of them ,, the entire planet of nations .. your crazy idea that this whole matter of sin vs. pureness of salvation,, good vs. evil ,, the whole topic is limited to just a few nations in the eastern world is simply ludicrous ,, it pertains to 100% of ALL nations on earth,, just as Christ instructed to go out to all nations on earth to preach this gospel and make disciples of all nations..."..and then the end of the age will come" and Not beforehand....which shows that this matter has not yet been fulfilled and is still to come ,, it has been declared by the most powerful organizations that all the worlds people be bew implanted witha RFID transponder by no later than 2017 ,, obama wants America done by 2013 ...so it is revealing that this will happen in the near future ,, alowing for tracking of people. The one world religion is forming as well ,, but those like you refuse to see what is coming,, learn about Chrislam ,, the joining of some so called Christian churches with Islam and they allow for other religions to unite with them as well, ,, True Christianity cannot be united with any other god ,, Just because you choose not to learn about how almost all nations on earth are NOW planning or already partners with the New World Order ,, a One world Government system ,,,and for just the reasons you stated ,.,it will all come together soon ,, those are reasons why so many nations are deciding that it be better to have a unified nation of government all united together ,, the global finanicial meltdown among other reasons are bringing nations together on this matter ,, but still you can't see with your closed eyes ,, all this is so very easy to find proof for .. but I don't have the time to show it all to you , but it is there to learn about If you actually wanted to learn of it , Yes, I know, I understand absolutely nothing compared to you and those like you who parrot the pre-millennial line. The Day will declare it. IN the meantime, some English grammar lessons on your part will help as your posts are often incomprehensible with their misspellings, failure to capitalize and abyssmal punctuation. Here is the BIBLICAL description of antichrist from the ONE MAN who ever used the term: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

How is stabbing one'e self in teh throat the same as a "head wound???" Your throat/neck is not the same as the head. Your neck is recognzied as a separate body part from the head. This is just another attempt at stretching history to make it fit your eschatology. The fact is that Nero did not die of a head wound and I would have to pretty lame or desparate to think that the throat is part of the head. You are really stretching things here. I don't deny history. YOU are trying to revise it to suit your goofy eschatology. The fact that it was wound unto death and it was healed shows a miracle took place. Healing the wound without reversing its deadly consequence would not cause wonder. Raising up someone who thought to be dead would cause wonder. The problem is that the false prophet didn't simply exercise authority in Israel. This is global, not limited to Israel. The Sandhedrin enforced Jewish law with the permisson of Rome, so long as they kept the peace and suppressed rebellion. The Sanhedrin did not exercise Roman authority. 1. At the time of the writing of Revelation, the head WAS considered to be to the neck. Whether it is today or not is irrelevant. 2. You just contradicted yourself. You say the Sanhedrin enforced Jewish law with the permission of Rome, then say the Sanhedrin didn't exercise Roman authority. IF ROME DIDN'T GIVE PERMISSION, THE SANHEDRIN WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANY AUTHORITY. The fact that Rome was allowing them to 'enforce Jewish law' is positive proof that they were doing it BY Roman authority.

Danielzk wrote: Simple concept ,,"and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." the reference here is that the worlds people are amazed that the dead came back to life and with great power and authority ... No Daniel, as I mentioned in my previous post, coming back to life is never mentioned in the passage. That has been inserted by people who are reading something else into the text that isn't there. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Remember also the world wonders after the Beast. The Beast is the Empire, not Nero. It was the Empire that went into disarray before a new Emperor. Almost the entire civilized world was ruled by Rome at the time and the Empire's subjects marveled that the Empire didn't crumble to pieces at the death of a major leader. "Nobody is greater than Rome!" is the sentiment here. "Nobody can make war against the Empire (which is just what the factions were doing)." people are often called clinically dead and are revived and continue to live life...but all the worlds people do not worship them as they do the man of sin The man of sin? Really? Where is the man of sin mentioned here? Here we go again, putting something into the text which is NOT THERE. Christ Jesus throws the antichrist ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE that burns forever nonstop. Nero was not cast alive into the Lake of Fire ,, nero was not the antichrist ,, Well, you got one right. Nero was not the antichrist. The reason Nero is not the antichrist is because John didn't use the term antichrist until somewhere between 85 and 96, nearly 25-30 years after Nero's death on June 9, 68. ,when all scriptures are included it reveals that the man of sin( which at that moment who is very well liked by all the people who helped this man get into office to hold his position ; and confirms, is involved with bringing to pass the 7 year peace treaty with Israel , the man is very popluar with the country's people , they really like him a lot , as he has not suffered the fatal woundyet ) then after he does he becomes a evil man with satan incarnate within him ..Now he begins his evil rule and demands all people of all nations ,and all laguages worship him,,,nero did not rule over every nation every language on earth, Nero did not do that ,,, Every Roman emperor ruled over every nation and language in the civilized world. Where did anyone bring real physical consuming fire down from heaven that was in Nero power. It was not within Nero's authority to bring down fire from heaven, it was within the authority of the Land-Beast. "Bringing down fire from heaven" is a euphemism for worship. It comes from I Kings 1:10 and 12, where Elijah says: If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Revelation 13 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, Elijah the Prophet (1 Kings 18....a literal consuming fire !)had a contest to see who could do it , and only HE did with God providing this result ,, no one else was able to it .....in Revelation it is satan doing it to counterfiet the LORD in order to convince the people that he is God ,, it is part of the deception that God allows to punish the wicked non believers that reject Christ and show that Only Christ Jesus is LORD Correct. Which was proof that God was behind it, allowing the deception that the Roman Emperors should be worshiped. You still cannot see that the One World Government for the entire earth is forming ,,,all events preceeding the coming of Christ are in process now,,.. a digital monetary system is being established where ALL people on Earth will have to partake of a digital numbering system in order to buy or sell anything,,,it is happening now ,, to make this 'earth wide over' system takes time ,but is rapidily coming to pass,, in this generation,,,and all, the other events that must take place to fulfill scripture are getting close to being finished; as well as some things that have not begun yet ...things you refuse to acknowledge simply cause they totally defeat this crazy notion you have ,, you insist on ignoring many scriptures that defeat this crazy idea you have ,,,it would be simple logic that IF you really want the true truth you would acknowledge ALL scripture,, but you flat out refuse to LOL. Governments are collapsing worldwide. Europe is coming apart at the seams, the Middle East is aflame with inter-nicene conflict, the United States is tottering on financial collapse and you say a one world government is coming? You can't get two countries on the planet anywhere to agree on jack-spit. The idea that a one world government is coming is an absolute joke. The only one-world anything out here is Gog leading Magog to battle against the Church.

We know however that the Beast was Rome, the last of Daniel's four beasts. Rome is personified by Nero (who died of a head wound...Chapter 13 of Rev). The False Prophet was the Sanhedrin, personified by the High Priest and his cronies. It is they who were cast in to Ge-enna. That is the most laughable and sloppy approach to Scripture I have ever seen. You just arbitrarily make stuff up. Nero did not die of a head wound. The person depicted as dying from the head would was rased to life in three days. Nero didn't did come back from the dead, so you're wrong about that. From where do you derive the noation that hte false prophet was the Sanhedrin???? I would love to see you prove that from Scripture. Oh he didn't, did he? Let's see what a Roman historian has to say: Suetonius on Nero's Suicide Finally, when his companions unanimously insisted on his trying to escape from the miserable fate threatening him, he ordered them to dig a grave at once, and then collect any pieces of marble that they could find and fetch wood and water for the disposal of the corps. As they bustled about obediently he muttered through his tears: "Dead! And so great an artist!" A runner brought him a letter from Phaon. Nero tore it from the man's hands and read that, having been declared a public enemy by the Senate, he would be punished in 'ancient style' when arrested. He asked what 'ancient style' meant, and learned that the executioners stripped their victim naked, thrust his head into a wooden fork, and then flogged him to death with sticks. In terror he snatched up the two daggers which he brought along and tried their points; but threw them down again, protesting that the final hour had not yet come. Then he begged Sporus to weep and mourn for him, but also begged one of the other three to set him an example by committing suicide first. He kept moaning about his cowardice, and muttering: 'How ugly and vulgar my life has become!' And then in Greek: 'This certainly is no credit to Nero, no credit at all,' and: 'Come pull yourself together, man!' By this time a troop of cavalry who had orders to take him alive were coming up the road. Nero gasped: 'Hark to the sound I hear! It is hooves of galloping horses.' Then, with the help of his scribe, Epaphroditos, he stabbed himself in the throat and was already half dead when a cavalry officer entered, pretending to have rushed to his rescue, and staunched the wound with his cloak. Nero muttered: 'Too late! But, ah, what fidelity!' He died, with his eyes glazed and bulging from their sockets, a sight which horrified everybody present. He had made his companions promise, whatever happened, not to let his head be cut off, but to have him buried all in one piece. Galba's freedman Icelus, who had been imprisoned when the first news came of the revolt and was now at liberty again, granted this indulgence. In your haste to make your desire of rapturism and pre-millennialism correct, you deny history. To your second allegation: The Scripture of Rev 13 doesn't say that the one who dies by the head wound comes back to life after 3 days. Here is the Biblical text: Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. Now, does anyone see in this text that the wounded head comes back to life? I read all the way to the end of the chapter, and there is nothing that states or implies that the wounded head comes back to life after 3 days. So again, we have yet another false assumption. The test only states that the deadly wound was healed. I have explained this in previous discussions. An emperor (in this case, Nero) embodied the Empire. Without a leader, the Roman Empire was dying. After the death of Nero came the Year of Four Emperors. The Roman Empire was racked with civil war and political infighting. The emperor who came out of the pile was none other than the father of General Titus. The Roman Empire was preserved by the advent of another emperor and thus the deadly wound was healed. The wound was to the EMPIRE, not Nero, although Nero was 666. Now to the False Prophet (capitalized for clarity). The False Prophet exercises the authority of the first beast. So then, if the first beast is the Roman Empire, the Land-Beast has the authority behind it of the Roman Empire. What entity in Israel exercised the authority of the Roman Empire? The High Priest and his cronies. Luke (in Acts) tells us that Paul had letters from the High Priest and the elders to bring Believers from Damascus to Jerusalem to be punished. The Council (Sanhedrin) had the very authority of Rome to bring Believers to Jerusalem for punishment. Who had the authority to 'bring down fire from heaven'? The High Priest and those junior to him. And by causing Israel to accept the authority of the Beast to persecute Messianic believers, he caused them to receive the Mark of the Beast in their right hand or forehead (what they do/what they think). Compare the Mark of the Beast concept with Deuteronomy 6:8 and you can see the similarities. The idea of binding (Qaphar) means to physically attach or mentally league with. Since apostate Israel refused to believe in their Messiah, God causes them to instead assent to the Beast.

I think one of the problems we run across is the misunderstanding of the words of Jesus concerning the gathering of the elect. "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Mt 24:29-31 The sun shall be darkened has nothing to do with nuclear fallout darkening the sky blotting out the sun, but rather is a reference to moral light given by Judaism at one point. Likewise, the moon is what reflects the sunlight, and this is a reference to Israel not receiving any righteous teaching from its 'sun' (the leaders). The stars fall from the heavens means that those who were most prominent are no longer so (because they're either dead or captured). The powers of the heavens are the demons. (Powers, principalities etc are no longer able to assert their effect on Israel, she is now free to hear the Gospel and receive Messiah.) The sign of the Son of Man in heaven appears. This is the fact that everything he said came true giving proof that He is in fact IN HEAVEN. He was and IS Messiah. HE has ascended to the throne of David, He is ruling. The nations are now His to rule. This causes the tribes of the LAND (not the earth, ge' means either land OR earth, but the land of Israel is the one who mourns. See Acts 2:37. When the multitude of Jews were given the Gospel, they were katanyssomai--pricked in their hearts, which causes emotional pain or mourning.) They then receive the Gospel, which causes them to see that Christ has come; it is a realization of the first coming, not of the second. The reference to the messengers going out is of Pentecost. It is God's human messengers who go out and gather together the elect (the Church) across the world. It's the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy (again, see Acts 2). It's the end of the age...and the start of a new one. Messianic reign from David's throne for thousands of years. Which leads to a second error: That David's throne is a physical one. The idea of David's throne means His authority and position as King of Israel, not a literal physical throne. Listen to Peter carefully please. "Men [and] brethren, let [me] speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Jesus has received David's throne. It's at the right hand of God, IN HEAVEN. The sign of the Son of Man in Heaven. Before Jesus ascended, He said this: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." This is the declaration of a KING. This is the command of a KING. Jesus has assumed the throne (power and authority and position) of David at the right hand of God. This is proof positive that the millennium (most correctly the Olam ha Ba, or world to come) has arrived. Jesus rules over heaven and earth. You can't dispute that He has defeated the Fourth Beast and the Dragon. How often do we hear "The year of Our Lord" in official statements? Why? Because the people who devised those legal statements understood that Jesus was the reigning Lord! They understood it as something that had already occurred, not as something that was going to occur. Now, however, God has permitted the devil to come out of his prison. The reign of Christ over the present earth is through. He is preparing the New Heavens and Earth for its King and His Bride. This little season and war of Gog and Magog will not last much longer.

No, we don't. Many have speculated that...but the jury is still out and there are other interpretations that are just as feasible. My current vote for "most likely" is a conglomeration of Islamic nations. Actually, we DO. The problem is we ignore it. The Beast nation has to be a nation which those to whom Jesus spoke would see/experience. Remember back in Matthew, he blatantly told the Sanhedrin members that "this generation" would not pass until all the things he spoke of would be fulfilled. Again in Luke, he tells his listeners "When you see that which is spoken of by Daniel the prophet..." Daniel describes Rome as a beast which destroys everything before it. The military might of Rome was unparalleled for its time. Roman legions rolled over every army they faced, even the vaunted Greeks. They may have lost battles, but they won wars. The little horn description fits Nero to a tee. Did he make war against the saints and prevail? Absolutely. The fledgling church nearly met its end before it had a chance to begin during the persecution of Nero. Only the fact that God had greater plans kept the church from total and complete destruction.

We know however that the Beast was Rome, the last of Daniel's four beasts. Rome is personified by Nero (who died of a head wound...Chapter 13 of Rev). The False Prophet was the Sanhedrin, personified by the High Priest and his cronies. It is they who were cast in to Ge-enna.

Here we go again. First of all there will be a period of great tribulation and the antichrist will be in control of that persecution of the saints. The second fact is that the Christians are waiting for a Jewish Jesus to return to earth, the MUSLIMS ARE WAITING FOR A JEWISH JESUS TO RETURN TO EARTH, and the non-messianic JEWS are waiting on a Jewish Jesus to appear here on earth for the first time. So Bold Believer you can run that false, Preterist teaching all day long but you will never convince 1 billion+ Muslims that that thier Jewish Jesus has already been and gone. Nor will you ever convince the Jews of that same pagan belief. Second Thess. say that the antichrist will sit IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD AND CLAIM THAT HE IS GOD. THAT FACT HAS NEVER HAPPENED YET. During the Roman siege of Jerusalim the Jews fought over control of the Temple mount and there were 3 factions who were fighting for that control which made it impossible for anyone to go into the temple of God, and claim to be God just as it says is going to happen in 2 Thess. Another thing all of you all preterists fail to see is when scripture say that the time of oppression will be so bad that it will be worse than any other tribulation before it OR AFTER IT. Well guess what? There were only about 600,000 Jews in the city during the time of the siege and not all of them were killed by the Romans. Many starved or turned to cannibalism and others were killed for trying to escape the city by other Jews and those who did escape died because when the Romans gave them some food their bellies swelled up and burst because they were starving or they were killed during the battles over control of the Temple Mount etc. Now lets compare what happened in 70 A.D. to what happened to the Jews during world war 2. NOT 600,000 BUT 6,000.000.000 MILLION JEWS WERE SLAUGHTERED DURING WORLD WAR 2. LETS CONSIDER WARSAW POLAND WHERE MORE JEWS WERE STARVED AND SYSTEMATICALLY TORTURED, BEATEN, RAPED AND KILLED OVER A PERIOD OF SEVERAL YEARS THEN WERE IN JERUSALIM IN 70 A.D. OR HOW ABOUT THE GAS CHAMBERS AND DEATH CAMPS, FORCED LABOR CAMPS AND NAZI EXPERIMENTS. THEIR SKINS WERE USED FOR UPOLSTERY ON COUCHES AND LAMP SHADES. AND LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THE ROMAN PERSECUTIONS OF THE EARLY CHURCH. THAT WENT ON FOR NEARLY 300 YEARS. NOPE BOLD BABY. HISTORY DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THAT OLD FALSE DOCTRINAL BELIEF OF PRETERISM. YOU SHOULD READ UP ON JOSEPHUS THE JEWISH HISTORIAN WHO WAS THERE DURING THE SIEGE OF JERUSALIM AND WAS THE ONLY ONE LEFT ALIVE AT MUSADA WHICH WAS THE LAST JEWISH STRONG HOLD AFTER THE CITY FELL. TO BAD YOU CAN'T LINE YOUR TEACHING UP WITH SCRIPTURE OR RECORDED HISTORY. If I were a Preterist, you'd be right. I'm not. Never have been. Not a post-millennialist either in the classic sense, although Christ DOES come after the millennium. I don't even consider myself a partial preterist anymore. If I had to put a label on myself, I'd have to say I'm post-little seasonist. Christ is held in heaven until the restoration of all things (Acts 3:21) and He won't be back until after the little season of Gog and Magog...but don't worry, I don't that will be too much longer honestly. I may not live to see the Parousia, but our children or grandchildren may. The whole theological concept of the 'Great Tribulation' is a straw man. The words used here are too common to the original language to be as specific as those of your understanding would like them to be. I am very familiar with Flavius Josephus. Josephus wasn't at Masada, there were no survivors at Masada. None. Josephus was originally on the side of the rebellion until he realized that it was futile. He surrendered to the Romans at Yodfat in 67 and attempted in vain to persuade the rebelling Jews to stop after that. He was also granted Roman citizenship and took the name Titus Flavius Josephus (his real name being Yusef ben Mattityahu). One thing we can agree on: It won't be too awful long. I have to laugh at the thought of Muslims waiting for a Jewish Jesus to return. They are waiting for the Mahdi, the 12th and last Islamic teacher. He'll never get here, he doesn't exist. The Jews aren't looking for Jesus either. They're looking for Messiah ben David. They believe he's a man, but not God in human form. I suggest you read The Messiah Texts by Raphael Patai to get some idea of what Jews are looking for. It isn't Jesus. To the average 'secular' Jew, Jesus is Yeshua bin Miriam ha mamzer (Jesus the bastard son of Mary) and they believe his father was a Roman soldier. Also, 2 Thess 2 doesn't say the antichrist will do anything. It never mentions antichrist. Only John mentions antichrist(s) in his letters. You add to the Scriptures at your own peril.

"The Anti-Christ" is a title used in christian theology to describe this person: 2 Thessalonians 2 New King James Version (NKJV) 2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? I'm well aware of that Yod, however a case can be made that the man of sin is a category of people and not just a single person. A case could also be made that the man of sin could have been Nero. Nero certainly exalted himself above every other god or object of worship. His name also adds up to 666. The problem I have with the idea of the singular antichrist dictator is that that Jesus never mentions this man, nor do any of the other apostles, and the context of John's letters indicate that he wasn't looking for a single person either, but a group of teachers who we later find out are the Gnostics. If this passage referred to a group of people why would it contain the word 'man' and the term 'son of'? It reads as referring to a single person. 1Ti 6:11 ¶ But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Is TImothy the only man of God? Methinks not. In the second example, is only one man being referred to here? I contend the same difference. The man of sin is someone who believes in his heart that he is a god and distains all other gods, whether True or false.

"The Anti-Christ" is a title used in christian theology to describe this person: 2 Thessalonians 2 New King James Version (NKJV) 2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? I'm well aware of that Yod, however a case can be made that the man of sin is a category of people and not just a single person. A case could also be made that the man of sin could have been Nero. Nero certainly exalted himself above every other god or object of worship. His name also adds up to 666. The problem I have with the idea of the singular antichrist dictator is that that Jesus never mentions this man, nor do any of the other apostles, and the context of John's letters indicate that he wasn't looking for a single person either, but a group of teachers who we later find out are the Gnostics.

An antichrist or THE antichrist is simply someone who is against Christ and His followers. There ARE antichrists and there WILL be someone who is the be all and end all....not that it will matter, the Lord has already told us how the story ends. Antichrists yes. "The" Antichrist (end time world dictator) no. I find most interesting that none of the apostles nor Jesus never mentioned this "Antichrist", which is one of the primary reasons I don't buy this line. As important as this alleged individual is supposed to be, Jesus never mentions such a person even once? Come on. Fool whom you will, but you're not fooling me on this one Satan.

There is no antichrist. Period. I dare any of you to FIND him. Christian have been speculating for 2000 years just who this individual is, and every time, they come up empty. This is just one more false prophet trying to capitalize on out of context Biblical verses. Daniel 9:24-chapter end is fulfilled.

Oh boy...you just wound ol' BB up. Anytime you hear the word 'tolerance', be it in the lamestream media, from a newspaper or even from a fellow Believer (because they've been influenced by the first two in some way or other), get out your hip-high boots and snow shovel. Then fuel up the lawn tractor and attach the bulldozer blade and call the equipment rental store to see if they have a bulldozer available, because it's probably gonna get deep. Tolerance is one of those words that Satan-gog has captured and twisted to his own evil devices, like the words 'gay', 'bigot' and 'fetus'. When you see 'tolerance' in the modern application think: "Acceptance of sin and evil." To be tolerant in this day and age means that you willingly and without reservation accept, permit or acquiesce to some liberal thought, action or ideal. Most usually, you will find this applied to homosexuality or other sexual matters. The 'tolerant' look the other way as this filth is injected into society in carload lots. You will tolerate: Seeing men (or women) kiss one another on TV, or see homosexual/perverse acts portrayed in near pornographic fashion. Hearing homosexuality touted as a 'viable alternate lifestyle'. Persons in high places who are openly homosexual. Open homosexuality in the military. Naked/nearly naked homosexuals parading in the streets claiming to be 'proud' of their ways. Teachers in your schools being homosexual. Lies about Christianity/Scripture. Lies about real Believers. The changing of the very language you speak: Bigot=anti-homosexual. Intolerant=anti-homosexual. Homophobic=fear of truly being as they are. Other examples of alleged tolerance? Attacks on Believers which claim we're the cause of intolerance and bigotry in the world. Fetus now means 'unwanted baby in the womb'. 'Reproductive rights' now means government permission to murder your child. 'Anti-abortion' means you relegate women to baby incubators. 'Pro-life' is almost never used to describe Believers (unless there's a pejorative included) 'Death penalty supporter' means you sanction government sponsored murder. If you are tolerant, you also agree to the above and any other horse manure that liberals spew from their mouths. Tolerance is now for all intents and purposes, the exact or near opposite of its original meaning. Oh...that beeping noise you hear? It means I'm backing up, so be careful.

Can you prove this with scripture? Alls ive found is the Day of the Lord is the day of Gods wrath. Not the trib period. But if you can show me scripture that says otherwise please do so. I think this is very important. Does the Day of the Lord begin after the trib or do some believe as Willamina that the beginning of the trib marks the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The wrath of God is never referred to as the 'great tribulation'. Thlipsis is a general word meaning distress or trouble, there is no special meaning for it. John states in Revelation 1:9 that he is the companion of those believers to whom he is writing in tribulation. Same word. Does mean that the church went through the tribulation? No. (He was referring to the Neronian persecution.) Theologians have attached much to many Greek words in the New Testament when in reality they are simple ordinary everyday words which no 1st century believer would have thought anything special about at all.

Actually, that statement makes no sense as the millennium does indeed happen when Jesus returns , there is no coming of Jesus after the millennium as he is already here .........after the millennium there will not be any sin ever again , the only people that will be here are the LORDS family of born again Christians ....life will be much different then which is why the scripture ends there OK, so let me get this straight: Jesus nearly destroys the world through men in the 'great tribulation', then comes at the end of it, sits in Jerusalem ruling over more sinners, then releases the devil at the end of a literal 1000 years. The devil promptly goes out and gathers up more sinners to fight against the people of God (WITH JESUS SITTING IN JERUSALEM WHILE ALL THIS SIN IS GOING ON), and then allows this pack of mad-dog sinners to march across the ENTIRE earth to Jerusalem, surround the city and THEN, FINALLY after all that...burns the planet to a crisp with fire from heaven and then brings the bride down from heaven? Uh...what's wrong with this scenario? Do you mean to tell me that the very Son of God allows all that sin to occur while He is ruling in Jerusalem? I thought all those resurrected saints were supposed to keep sin underfoot as co-regents of Christ. I love ya bro, but honestly, I've seen Swiss cheese wheels with less holes in them. The release of Satan is AFTER the millennium, so there IS sin after the millennium for a 'little season'. There is no specific amount of time to the 'little season'. We don't know how long it is, only that it is direct contrast to the 1000 years in its duration. It could very well be 999 years, 364 days, 23 hours, 59 seconds, as long as it is not 1000 years.