Steven Benjamin

Right, I just read your answer after I replied. I did read some of the other answers before replying, I think you pose a very good closing question.

Please dont take this reply as unkind in it's open, for it is not meant to be so. You state in the open of this thread a paradox, well moreso a contradiction... You cite: "Years ago I told her it was not some harmless innocent but a demonic presence. I know that is what the Holy Spirit had told me yrs. ago and I hold firm to that conviction. So can anyone enlighten me about these things and what they really are?" You assert to already know the answer to your question, to have it as conviction you hold firm too, yet you ask for enlightenment as to "WHAT THEY REALLY ARE?" IT seems there something unanswered in your stance of many years ago. Else why pose this question? MORE Importantly, why do you still have the nagging feeling there is something more? I think one response offered proper council that these things could serve a distraction. But I lean more towards that which is offered here my "Mr. And Mrs. Mike" ANGELS are spirits, as are we. Scripture notes that we walk amongst angels unaware. This could be taken many ways. More importantly though, I think you already know whatever you are encountering is a Spirital manifestation, tangible in measure, but not in prescence by physical conventions. Acknowleging that, is important that you not choose ignorance. NEXT, no matter what the alignment of this entity, we must be very careful in offering any form of criticism...we are warned in Scripture not to make Railing accusations against the Devil. WE are also taught that one form of Blashphemy is to contribute the works of the Holy Spirit to being the works of the Devil. If you don't know what it is as to GOOD or BAD, ANGEL or DEMON, it may well be best simply to remain silent so long as no harm comes of it's prescence, and focus your mind to dwell on other things so as not to be distracted. As for SPIRITS OF THE DEAD on this earth being demons, well, scripture notes the Dead will walk the earth. There are some groups of Post-Trib Rapturalists who believe the seals of Revelation are not GOING TO BE OPENED, rather they believe THEY ARE ALREADY BEING OPENED, some placing us in the 5th seal, some the 6th depending on the group. Benny Hinn actually seemed to whisper at the truth a few years back in noting the events of Revelations, many of them, were/are not going to occur on a GLOBAL scale, rather much will occur in Europe. If any of these groups holding that certain seals have been opened, it may well account for some of these "SPIRITS" of the dead walking the earth again. They may well be the source of the "VOICES" which are unleashed upon the earth with opening of at least 2 of the 7 seals of revelations. People actually don't go to hell...FOREVER, as HELL is recorded in scripture to eventually give the Dead which are in her, for the time of judgement. There is more than one occasion in scripture in which Angels have manifested themselves to Mankind. Some of these visitations were very visible to the naked eye of those visited, some were not. Such is the case with Baalam and his Donkey. Baalam is on his way to Balak with two of servants, knowing in his heart he was not to go. And his donkey reacts to the prescence of the Angel of the Lord, invisible to all the humans. The Angel is actually trying to HELP Baalam, not hurt him, and doing so by standing in the way of his Donkey who yields. Balaam CAN"T understand what is wrong with his animal. THIS STRANGE occurance, angers Baalam and he beats his donkey who is miraculously given power to speak to Baalam in protest of this treatment, and ONLY then is Baalam's eyes opened to see the Angel. The angel announces to Balaam that the Only reason GOD did not slay him, was because of his Donkey. DO you get that, the righteousness of an animal, sparing his master? I whole heartedly believe my dogs pray, and that learned the practice from me quite possibly, if not possessing it from birth. I can't prove that, but I can prove that a donkey once talked to a man. But this man experienced a strange event prior, one he did understand and blamed his donkey for. Is it so far out of the realm of possiblity to think the angel of the Lord would use a strange event to get your cat or dog, or my dogs or Iguana to act strangely, to use thier actions to stop us in ours, to alter our courses when we are on a collision course to perform that which God would not have us do? Even something as mundane as stopping us from ordering a Pizza? Sure, nothing wrong with that, right? Well, what one is morbidly obese? Still out of the realm of possiblility? I gather I am probably referencing doctrine which is beyond the experience or exposure of many who would visit this room, but a lack of exposure, does not preclude them from necessarily being true, and there are too many details which would vere off topic to discuss them here in this post. But consider, as Christians, we don't believe in witch-craft, but does this mean it does not work? NO! Of course not, scripture actually records an account of such, in which the spirit of a dead man was summoned to earth. The account I reference of course was with the PROPHET, summoned by the Witch of ENDOR at the request of King Saul. This would be Saul's ultimate undoing, as judgement would be passed upon him, as A DEAD prophet, albeit a LIVE Spirit summoned to this world prophecied against Saul, giving judgement. So, was that Spirit...that ghost of a dead one disturbed from his rest, was That Spirit A DEMON? I think it would serve you better, rather than focus upon this entity you encounter, to ask your churches hierarchy over for a prayer meeting to annoint your home and to pray that God would cast out ANY unclean spirits, not casting judgement upon an entity you are unsure of. It may well be that as the saints of God are encamped round about by angels, one camping around you may well feel the need to assert their prescence. And I am not suggesting your particular situation is the result of an angel, or angels, any more than I am that such is the result of a demon, or demons. YOU can sin by making Railing accusations against even the Devil. YOU Can commit Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. And you can offend an Angel, given charge over you to guide your steps and protect you, from even yourself. A better question than "WHAT ARE THESE THINGS?" may well be, "WHY AM I BEING EXPOSED TO THESE THINGS?" What I am saying, is sometimes, we are reminded that there is more under the Sun than may be explained, and we should be mindful not to offer railing accusations, to satisfy or settle our minds.

I don't get into chat rooms much. It's nice to see opposing viewpoints, not for sake of "opposing" rather for sake of demonstrating openmindedness. I was once a licensed baptist preacher, not trying to assert position, rather that I understand thier doctrines very well. I can tell you that there is an entire denomination who believe in life on other planets. The Seventh Day Adventists wholeheartedly endorse this idea. They see Cheribum and Seriphum and the various angelic races in an explanation that would basically be like seeing Vulcans and Klingons on the fictitious work of Gene Roddenbury's Star Trek. I am not an SDA mind you, but am somewhat familiar with their doctrines. I am affiliated with an offshoot group, some would say and "UPSHOOT" group from that denomination, The Branch Davidians out of Waco Texas. I can tell you, as a whole, thier denomination is much more thoroughly engrossed in scripture than most. This holds true of the SDA as well. I am not saying thier doctrines are right or wrong, I am saying they don't just parrot things they heard some Brother this, or Brother that say...they can actually defend thier positions and a more familiar with scripture in the course of doing such than most denominations I have encountered. I speak on congregations as a whole, not to individuals, as each denomination has zealous souls willing to embrace scripture as it ought in thier search for truth. In my encounters with these various groups, I can tell you on more than one occasion it has been suggested one can see UFO's clearly described in Scripture. For instance Daniel 7, notes Christ coming to earth, actually the term is "one like unto the son of Man travels in the clouds. Now before it get "pointed out" to me, I am very familiar with the Rapture Doctrine, both Pre-trib and Post, and I know how most would preach this passage. But the point is, he travels in the air. AND in the verses just preceding that passage, in the same chapter, one can see the ANCIENT of DAYS also on a "TRAVELLING THRONE"...one which has Wheels, like a vehicle, even in Daniel's day, they had carts, and chariots... and this throne's wheels are like fire, much like the emission one now sees from the Space Shuttle....THIS THRONE, has STREAMS of Flame issuing before it...sure sounds like some sort of space craft to me. Some would argue the same of those FLYING CHARIOTS OF FIRE, which are associated with the prophet Elijah. After all, what would one in Elijah's day, who recognized a vehicle call a vehicle..."A FORD?"....how about "A CHRYSLER?"....no, I don't think those are it at all, as a matter of fact, Elijah kinda strikes me as 'CHEVY' Man! NO!! YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE!! Elijah had NO IDEA what a Chevy would be...none at all, but he knew a vehicle when saw it, and those days, a vehicle of warcraft, well, that usually a CHARIOT! So one must consider timelines and exposure in the descriptions offered by the prophets. To be sure no doubt, I may draw fire, and those with no argument left on a scriptural basis would point to my affiliations. But unlike most, I have been to Waco, done my own investigation rather the believe the report of the same liberal media who sold us "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION." For any who would go there, I urge you to spend an hour watching a Video produced for the A&E channel that was banned from play on U.S. Airwaves, you can see it on the net, and form you own opion of who banned it, and why. At anyrate, my point here was to promote not my affiliation in this post, rather to emphasize there are indeed "CHRISTIAN" denominations, more than one, who not only believe in life on other planets and UFO's, but support their beliefs with scripture as much as any PRE-Rapturalist, no matter if they are wrong or right. So if you are really curious to know if these other "ALIEN" races are children of God, you might lend consideration outside your realm of experience just a bit...to consider ALL SIDES, and make an informed decision. Alot gets said of what is and isn't in the Bible, unfortunately, it's mostly hear say and second hand teaching. I heard somewhere a while back, a SDA preacher as a matter of fact, that a large percentage, 82% I think it was, of Christians, believe the phrase..."GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES" is a scriptural teaching, and in the BIBLE, but the phrase is NOWHERE in scripture, not once. IN fact, it is a quote by a famous individual...BEN FRANKLIN, now considering he was openly a professed ATHEIST...it kinda puts those words in a whole 'nuther' light when you consider what people believe those words mean, and what the Atheist who spoke them was actually trying to say. Since your used to Google, and I kinda like it too, you can cross reference "ELLEN WHITE" with "ANGELIC RACES" or "SERIPHUM" or just about any combination thereof, and you find a whole lot of people making claims and attacking the person of Ellen White, I reccomend you go to those who would know before those who would dig up dirt to criticize...this is a good place to start: as for my own affiliations, I assure you, I very well versed in the most popular mainstream doctrines, and before any would offer criticism of me due my own affiliations, I invite you to spend an hour being shocked at the information that has been most likely withheld you to this point This is the introduction from the opening scene, and the link to that video I mentioned... "Hello, I'm Dr. Fredrick Whitehurst. I was employeed by the F.B.I. for 16 years as an agent, the Last 12 of those years at the F.B.I. crime Labratory in Washington D.C. After Reviewing the Results of a 6 year investigation into the tradgedy at Waco Texas, I am convinced that the American People have never been told the full truth about that matter." Dr. Fredrick Whitehurst, former F.B.I. Crime Lab LINK TO VIDEO: WEBMASTER: My apologies, I did not realize I was out of line in the links provided. It won't happen again. I can see where the first link was extra biblical, in that it dealt with the explanation of actual reported vision of Ellen White, as opposed to scriptural position. My point was that the entire Seventh Day Adventist Denomination, and Denominations which have formed from out of the same along the way, do indeed not only believe in extra-terrestial life, but see as much that Scripture promotes the idea. An idea they have preached for over a century. As to the second link, again, I did not realize I had done anything improper, my apologies to both you and the room, I guess I should have read the details more carefully on the rules for the room. For those interested to take a second look, to consider the content of the video I mentioned, You simply goto Google Video and type in "WACO: A NEW Revelation" it may come as PART 2, if so, it is the same one, and will start with an introduction by a gentleman in a suit and tie, Dr. Fredrick Whitehurst, offering the narrative stated above. If it reads as Part 2, that is because Part 1 did air on the A&E channel, and actually created alot of sympathy for the church in Waco, something some "folks" likely did not appreciate, as Part 2 of that series titled "WACO: A NEW REVELATION" while standing on it's own, was intended to be a continuation of the first A&E special, but like I said, it was banned from U.S. Airwaves and originally, before that, was limited to our borders, not to shown outside of our country, but it found it's way to the U.K. then the internet, so, as I pointed out, you can find it on Google. I have been kicked out of churches, been kicked out of homes, even run out of one town due to my religious beliefs, and usually by people acting on Bias and second hand reports and doing no real investigation of thier own, nor even hearing out my side of the story, so I am a little accustomed to such treatment. While some would sling rumors and accusations they heard second hand somewhere in news article of this or that, I would cite that all that live Godly and in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution, and getting your parking tickets validated for free with a clergy pass, sounds more like R-E-S-P-E-C-T to me, than it does persecution, but then maybe that is just me. Most people aren't aware of it, but there are many groups of Davidian Seventh Day Adventists, just as there are many groups of Baptists. Southern Baptists, Freewill, Seventh Day, Indepedant Fundamentalist, none having anything to do with one another in fellowship, and such is the same with these groups of Davidians going back to the 1930s; and the SDA having nothing to do with any of them. BUT ALL of those groups, rising from Seventh-Day Adventist carrying with them a belief in life on other planets, and promoting such beliefs with scriptures. It was not my intent to go into such detail of myself here, but As I have, I was formerly and Independant Fundamental Baptist preacher, attended Hyles-Anderson Bible College in Crown Point Indiana in the 1980s. The details of how I got from there to here, are much too long, and too far off topic to reply to in this post, but I am glad to be here, apologize again for my inappropriate behavior, I assure you, it was not my intent to violate any rules. I will certainly not violate those two again in the future. Thank you, -Steven Benjamin P.S. I would greatly appreciate it Webmaster, if you could send a copy of those rules to my email, that I may re-read them again, to take measures to avoid your finding the need to edit my posts again in the future. Thank You. *******************

I don't get into chat rooms much. It's nice to see opposing viewpoints, not for sake of "opposing" rather for sake of demonstrating openmindedness. I was once a licensed baptist preacher, not trying to assert position, rather that I understand thier doctrines very well. I can tell you that there is an entire denomination who believe in life on other planets. The Seventh Day Adventists wholeheartedly endorse this idea. They see Cheribum and Seriphum and the various angelic races in an explanation that would basically be like seeing Vulcans and Klingons on the fictitious work of Gene Roddenbury's Star Trek. I am not an SDA mind you, but am somewhat familiar with their doctrines. I am affiliated with an offshoot group, some would say and "UPSHOOT" group from that denomination, The Branch Davidians out of Waco Texas. I can tell you, as a whole, thier denomination is much more thoroughly engrossed in scripture than most. This holds true of the SDA as well. I am not saying thier doctrines are right or wrong, I am saying they don't just parrot things they heard some Brother this, or Brother that say...they can actually defend thier positions and a more familiar with scripture in the course of doing such than most denominations I have encountered. I speak on congregations as a whole, not to individuals, as each denomination has zealous souls willing to embrace scripture as it ought in thier search for truth. In my encounters with these various groups, I can tell you on more than one occasion it has been suggested one can see UFO's clearly described in Scripture. For instance Daniel 7, notes Christ coming to earth, actually the term is "one like unto the son of Man travels in the clouds. Now before it get "pointed out" to me, I am very familiar with the Rapture Doctrine, both Pre-trib and Post, and I know how most would preach this passage. But the point is, he travels in the air. AND in the verses just preceding that passage, in the same chapter, one can see the ANCIENT of DAYS also on a "TRAVELLING THRONE"...one which has Wheels, like a vehicle, even in Daniel's day, they had carts, and chariots... and this throne's wheels are like fire, much like the emission one now sees from the Space Shuttle....THIS THRONE, has STREAMS of Flame issuing before it...sure sounds like some sort of space craft to me. Some would argue the same of those FLYING CHARIOTS OF FIRE, which are associated with the prophet Elijah. After all, what would one in Elijah's day, who recognized a vehicle call a vehicle..."A FORD?"....how about "A CHRYSLER?"....no, I don't think those are it at all, as a matter of fact, Elijah kinda strikes me as 'CHEVY' Man! NO!! YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE!! Elijah had NO IDEA what a Chevy would be...none at all, but he knew a vehicle when saw it, and those days, a vehicle of warcraft, well, that usually a CHARIOT! So one must consider timelines and exposure in the descriptions offered by the prophets. To be sure no doubt, I may draw fire, and those with no argument left on a scriptural basis would point to my affiliations. But unlike most, I have been to Waco, done my own investigation rather the believe the report of the same liberal media who sold us "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION." For any who would go there, I urge you to spend an hour watching a Video produced for the A&E channel that was banned from play on U.S. Airwaves, you can see it on the net, and form you own opion of who banned it, and why. At anyrate, my point here was to promote not my affiliation in this post, rather to emphasize there are indeed "CHRISTIAN" denominations, more than one, who not only believe in life on other planets and UFO's, but support their beliefs with scripture as much as any PRE-Rapturalist, no matter if they are wrong or right. So if you are really curious to know if these other "ALIEN" races are children of God, you might lend consideration outside your realm of experience just a bit...to consider ALL SIDES, and make an informed decision. Alot gets said of what is and isn't in the Bible, unfortunately, it's mostly hear say and second hand teaching. I heard somewhere a while back, a SDA preacher as a matter of fact, that a large percentage, 82% I think it was, of Christians, believe the phrase..."GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES" is a scriptural teaching, and in the BIBLE, but the phrase is NOWHERE in scripture, not once. IN fact, it is a quote by a famous individual...BEN FRANKLIN, now considering he was openly a professed ATHEIST...it kinda puts those words in a whole 'nuther' light when you consider what people believe those words mean, and what the Atheist who spoke them was actually trying to say. Since your used to Google, and I kinda like it too, you can cross reference "ELLEN WHITE" with "ANGELIC RACES" or "SERIPHUM" or just about any combination thereof, and you find a whole lot of people making claims and attacking the person of Ellen White, I reccomend you go to those who would know before those who would dig up dirt to criticize...this is a good place to start: as for my own affiliations, I assure you, I very well versed in the most popular mainstream doctrines, and before any would offer criticism of me due my own affiliations, I invite you to spend an hour being shocked at the information that has been most likely withheld you to this point This is the introduction from the opening scene, and the link to that video I mentioned... "Hello, I'm Dr. Fredrick Whitehurst. I was employeed by the F.B.I. for 16 years as an agent, the Last 12 of those years at the F.B.I. crime Labratory in Washington D.C. After Reviewing the Results of a 6 year investigation into the tradgedy at Waco Texas, I am convinced that the American People have never been told the full truth about that matter." Dr. Fredrick Whitehurst, former F.B.I. Crime Lab LINK TO VIDEO: *******************