OneAccord

Hi George! Good to 'see' you again!!! From your post I see that you take this as a prophetic verse, not yet fulfilled, because He has not yet come in His second coming/day of the Lord. And if this verse is prophetic then so must be the whole passage about persecutions, et al, meaning these verses are perfectly applicable to today's disciples, not just the twelve that He sent out two by two in the previous passage. In this light, another thought that I had was that the 'cities of Israel' are not just eratz Israel, but remember that Israel has been scattered to the ends of the earth and not yet all gathered back. Could these 'cities' perhaps refer to any place on the globe where descendants are living to this day? Hence the command to go to the ends of the earth preaching the gospel, for each one must hear, and thus the scattering becomes a blessing and light to the Gentiles as well. However, these words were spoken to the Twelve, as we see in Matthew 10:5, when they were told also not to go into the way of the Gentiles or to enter a city of the Samaritans, but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. We see also in 11:1 that it says ".......when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples ......." So this enitre chapter was addressed to the Twelve. Are we being presumptuous to think that these words can apply also to us in these times? I looked up the word Telos for "end" from the previous verse that you pointed out. Interesting word but the online lexicon I used says it never refers to a period of time telos---end termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time) the end the last in any succession or series eternal that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods) Although your comparison of it to the 1 Cor 15 verse about the end of the age possibly applies. I've looked through numerous commentaries about this verse and most sort of side-step it and focus more on the fleeing from persecution part and gloss over the rest. None that I looked at suggested a prophetic interpretation but rather mused about which coming He was referring to, suggesting His resurrection as a coming, His Holy Spirit at Pentecost as a coming, even the razing of Jerusalem in 33AD as a coming. "Gone through" the cities basically means completed the assignment. In fact the words "gone through" seem like a poor translation when checking out the lexicon. "Comes" has some interesting variations of meaning: erchomai--to come of persons: to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving; to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public metaph.: to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto to go, to follow one This definition of "to come" sounds a lot like the second coming, but could refer to the resurrection. If it is prophetic, than the entire chapter must be prophetic as well. If so, then the "cities of Israel" would refer as well to the modern day cities of Israel, as George suggested. Assuredly I say to you, you willnot have gone through the cities of Israel till the Son of Man comes. Does this mean becuase they refused to listen or because there is not enough time? Or laborers?

In our Bible Studies we all run across verses that pose a challenge to us, that cause us to have to take a deeper look to make them "fit" into our understanding of the Word. I've been listing a number of these sorts of verses as I read through my yearly "Bible in a Year" pilgrimage. I would like to use this thread to put forth some of these verses for discussion in order to get some feedback and ideas about how they are to be properly interpreted. What I will do is give one verse at a time, see what kind of discussion comes about and hopefully resolve some of these verses in my thinking. Meanwhile, remember, iron sharpens iron! I'm going to start with the Book of Matthew, and verses I've run across this week that have challenged me. Here's the first verse: Matthew 10:23b For assuredly I say to you you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. This verse is in the context of Jesus describing the persecutions to come to His disciples as they are sent out two by two into the cities of the house of Israel. What does this verse mean????????????

""So I'll probably just hang out in the Study forum here mostly."" Ooops!!!! Just found out I can't start topics in this forum (that would be too dangerous, I guess :x: ) so I am going to start one down below in the discussion forums called "Challenging Verses". Check it out!!!

"Closest I can think of is David Stearn's Jewish New Testament translation. He takes the Greek and renders the Hebrew equivalants. He tries to show how a Hebraic thinking person would read and understand the New Testament. You can get it on CD ROM along with the commnentary for about $40.00. The Commentary and NT can be purchased at any Christian bookstore, I think. " I have seen the Complete Jewish Bible, but never really took a good look at it. I didn't realize there was a commentary that went along with the NT Jewish Bible. I'll bet that's pretty interesting! "Both of those resources are great. Kenneth Wuest's four volumes will edify you, and the Study Bible you mentioned is excellent as well. I wish there was a OT Hebrew version of what Wuest does with the NT." {Help! I forgot how to do quotes!} Now I'm really looking forward to recieving them! Watching for the mailman every day! Hi Ted!!!!!!!!! I've missed you, too!!!!! :hug: I'm not planning to spend too much time on Worthyboards, don't want to get too caught up and not get the dishes done, you know how it is. But I'm really needing some 'study buddies' as that's hard to find here in the flesh. So I'll probably just hang out in the Study forum here mostly. How's the homelife treating you? Bet it feels sooooo good...........Bless you!

Thanks for the reply! I don't think we have any Messianic churches around here to teach me. I just have a natural love for language and word meanings and entymology. I am constantly on the lookout for a good study aid to help with in-depth explorations of words in the Bible, both Greek and Hebrew, but short of learning the language like you, I haven't found the 'perfect' resource. I just ordered the Hebrew-Greek Keyword Study Bible, which will be helpful and I'm sure it will whet my appetite for more, and also Kenneth Wuest's 4 volume Word studies of the New Testament. Am waiting for their arrival........ ""It directly correlates to Yeshua for it is the Hebrew equivalent to "Logos" found in John chapter 1. In Hebrew John 1: 1 reads, "Bereishit hayah hadavar. V'davar haya et haElohim, vElohim hayah hadavar." In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Yeshua is Hadavar Elohim, "The Word of God." "" I'm sure a Hebrew translation of the New Testament would be fascinating for sure. Are there any translations that are Hebrew from the Greek and then directly translated to English??? (Greek to Hebrew to English) Great study, by the way........ :il:

Shiloh357: I am fascinated by word studies! Could you please tell us what resources you are using to put together your excellent word studies?

Do you believe that stuffing his body under the mattress was justified too?

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/...ial/8992746.htm Iraq combat: What it's really like over there By JOSEPH L. GALLOWAY Knight Ridder Newspapers WASHINGTON - The Internet, which fills our inboxes with spam and scams every day and keeps our delete keys shiny, occasionally delivers a real keeper, such as the words below, which were written by a graduate of West Point, Class of 2003, who's now at war in Iraq. We tracked down the author, who gave us permission to quote from his letter so long as we didn't reveal his name. Old soldiers in the Civil War coined a phrase for green troops who survived their first taste of battle: "He has seen the elephant." This Army lieutenant sums up the combat experience better than many a grizzled veteran: "Well, I'm here in Iraq, and I've seen it, and done it. I've seen everything you've ever seen in a war movie. I've seen cowardice; I've seen heroism; I've seen fear; and I've seen relief. I've seen blood and brains all over the back of a vehicle, and I've seen men bleed to death surrounded by their comrades. I've seen people throw up when it's all over, and I've seen the same shell-shocked look in 35-year-old experienced sergeants as in 19-year-old privates. "I've heard the screams - 'Medic! Medic!' I've hauled dead civilians out of cars, and I've looked down at my hands and seen them covered in blood after putting some poor Iraqi civilian in the wrong place at the wrong time into a helicopter. I've seen kids with gunshot wounds, and I've seen kids who've tried to kill me. "I've seen men tell lies to save lives: 'What happened to Sergeant A.?' The reply: 'C'mon man, he's all right - he's wondering if you'll be OK - he said y'all will have a beer together when you get to Germany.' SFC A. was lying 15 feet away on the other side of the bunker with two medics over him desperately trying to get either a pulse or a breath. The man who asked after SFC A. was himself bleeding from two gut wounds and rasping as he tried to talk with a collapsed lung. One of them made it; one did not. "I've run for cover as fast as I've ever run - I'll hear the bass percussion thump of mortar rounds and rockets exploding as long as I live. I've heard the shrapnel as it shredded through the trailers my men live in and over my head. I've stood, gasping for breath, as I helped drag into a bunker a man so pale and badly bloodied I didn't even recognize him as a soldier I've known for months. I've run across open ground to find my soldiers and make sure I had everyone. "I've raided houses, and shot off locks, and broken in windows. I've grabbed prisoners, and guarded them. I've looked into the faces of men who would have killed me if I'd driven past their IED (improvised explosive device) an hour later. I've looked at men who've killed two people I knew, and saw fear. "I've seen that, sadly, that men who try to kill other men aren't monsters, and most of them aren't even brave - they aren't defiant to the last - they're ordinary people. Men are men, and that's it. I've prayed for a man to make a move toward the wire, so I could flip my weapon off safe and put two rounds in his chest - if I could beat my platoon sergeant's shotgun to the punch. I've been wanted dead, and I've wanted to kill. "I've sworn at the radio when I heard one of my classmate's platoon sergeants call over the radio: 'Contact! Contact! IED, small arms, mortars! One KIA, three WIA!' Then a burst of staccato gunfire and a frantic cry: 'Red 1, where are you? Where are you?' as we raced to the scene ... knowing full well we were too late for at least one of our comrades. "I've seen a man without the back of his head and still done what I've been trained to do - 'medic!' I've cleaned up blood and brains so my soldiers wouldn't see it - taken pictures to document the scene, like I'm in some sort of bizarre cop show on TV. "I've heard gunfire and hit the ground, heard it and closed my Humvee door, and heard it and just looked and figured it was too far off to worry about. I've seen men stacked up outside a house, ready to enter - some as scared as they could be, and some as calm as if they were picking up lunch from McDonald's. I've laughed at dead men, and watched a sergeant on the ground, laughing so hard he was crying, because my boots were stuck in a muddy field, all the while an Iraqi corpse was not five feet from him. "I've heard men worry about civilians, and I've heard men shrug and sum up their viewpoint in two words - 'F--- 'em.' I've seen people shoot when they shouldn't have, and I've seen my soldiers take an extra second or two, think about it, and spare somebody's life. "I've bought drinks from Iraqis while new units watched in wonder from their trucks, pointing weapons in every direction, including the Iraqis my men were buying a Pepsi from. I've patrolled roads for eight hours at a time that combat support units spend days preparing to travel 10 miles on. I've laughed as other units sit terrified in traffic, fingers nervously on triggers, while my soldiers and I deftly whip around, drive on the wrong side of the road, and wave to Iraqis as we pass. I can recognize a Sadiqqi (Arabic for friend) from a Haji (Arabic word for someone who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca, but our word for a bad guy); I know who to point my weapons at, and who to let pass. "I've come in from my third 18-hour patrol in as many days with a full beard and stared at a major in a pressed uniform who hasn't left the wire since we've been here, daring him to tell me to shave. He looked at me, looked at the dust and sweat and dirt on my uniform, and went back to typing at his computer. "I've stood with my men in the mess hall, surrounded by people whose idea of a bad day in Iraq is a six-hour shift manning a radio, and watched them give us a wide berth as we swagger in, dirty, smelly, tired, but sure in our knowledge that we pull the triggers, and we do what the Army does, and they, with their clean uniforms and weapons that have never fired, support us. "I've given a kid water and Gatorade and made a friend for life. I've let them look through my sunglasses - no one wears them in this country but us - and watched them pretend to be an American soldier - a swaggering invincible machine, secure behind his sunglasses, only because the Iraqis can't see the fear in his eyes. "I've said it a thousand times - 'God, I hate this country.' I've heard it a million times more - 'This place sucks.' In quieter moments, I've heard more profound things: 'Sir, this is a thousand times worse than I ever thought it would be.' Or, 'My wife and Sgt. B's wife were good friends - I hope she's taking it well.' "They say they're scared, and say they won't do this or that, but when it comes time to do it they can't let their buddies down, can't let their friends go outside the wire without them, because they know it isn't right for the team to go into the ballgame at any less than 100 percent. "That's combat, I guess, and there's no way you can be ready for it. It just is what it is, and everybody's experience is different. Just thought you might want to know what it's really like."

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/..._family?mode=PF US tactics in raid raise concerns By Thanassis Cambanis, Globe Staff | June 21, 2004 BAGHDAD -- American soldiers stormed into Sajid Kadhum Bouri al-Bawi's house three hours after midnight on May 17, breaking two doors and rousing the dozen children who live there. An hour later, family members recalled, the soldiers led a hooded man from the house and told the family they were arresting Bawi. Only after the soldiers left with what appeared to be a prisoner did Bawi's brother find his bloodied body, shot five times and stuffed behind a refrigerator underneath a pile of mattresses. The US Army is investigating the shooting, and admits that Bawi was shot and killed by an American when, according to the soldiers involved, he tried to seize a soldier's weapon. Bawi's slaying during the kind of routine night raid that is the military's bread-and-butter counterinsurgency tactic raises questions about the control and supervision of soldiers on those raids, and the reliability of the local informants whose tips are often behind the arrest lists. The events described by family members are chilling: They say Bawi was killed in his mother's bedroom during an interrogation, while soldiers banged on metal doors to dull the sound of the shots. The soldiers then pretended they were detaining Bawi, according to several members of the family who were present, parading another man in a dishdasha, or robe, through the darkened house to trick the family into thinking that the head of the household was still alive. Brigadier General Jeffery Hammond, the number two commander of the First Armored Cavalry Division, which patrols Baghdad, said the shooting was unlikely to have occurred as described by the family. ''We have too many lines of supervision on any operation we do," Hammond said. ''It would be hard for me to believe that could happen." In a terse statement released more than two weeks after Bawi's death, after repeated visits by his relatives to military officers stationed near the slum where his family lives, the military admitted the shooting and said it had officially opened an investigation. ''According to a source, the Iraqi was an anti-Iraqi forces operative who bragged to his neighbors about murdering a First Cavalry soldier at a checkpoint," the statement said. Acting on the informant's tip, soldiers raided the house in Kamalaya, a mostly Shi'ite slum south of the Sadr City section of Baghdad. ''It is reported that during the raid, the Iraqi attempted to grab the weapon of a US soldier who shot and killed the subject," the statement said. Through a spokesman, Hammond said it would be inappropriate to comment any further before the investigation was complete. It is not clear when that will be, nor has other information been disclosed regarding the identity of the unit or the names of the soldiers involved. In the past year, investigations into shootings by US troops have taken anywhere from a few weeks to several months. It was not clear why the interrogation of Bawi took place in his house, rather than at an American base after his arrest. The shooting, as recalled by a half-dozen family members present the night of the raid, has left deep scars on the family. The Bawis live in a two-story home on a narrow dirt lane just off the main road in Kamalaya. On the night of the raid, Bawi, his wife, and five children were sleeping in the front room, the only one with an air conditioner. According to the family, US soldiers, accompanied by a translator, a group of Iraqi Civil Defense Corps soldiers, and an informant -- hooded to mask his identity -- entered the house. They demanded to know where Bawi was, and the hulking man -- he was 6 feet 6 inches tall and weighed about 265 pounds -- immediately identified himself. Bawi was taken to an empty bedroom just behind the living room, family members said. The soldiers roused the families of two other brothers, who live in the same house. In a standard practice, they held the three other men in the house in the kitchen, and separately kept the women and children in the living room, where they sat on the mattresses in front of a wall-sized mural depicting the battle of Karbala, the signal event in the founding of Shi'ite Islam. The soldiers found a machine gun in the upstairs bedroom belonging to Haidar Bawi, one of Bawi's brothers. ''I could only hear muffled sounds from the other room," said Wathiq Jawad Kadhum, 27, a nephew who was held in the kitchen during the roughly 45 minutes that soldiers interrogated his uncle in the bedroom. Kadhum, his brother Muthanah Kadhum, and his uncle Haidar Bawi were handcuffed and kept on their knees at gunpoint, they said. Several times, the translator and an American officer came to the kitchen and addressed the three men. ''They said, Sajid is in the resistance, isn't he?" Wathiq Kadhum said. ''They asked me, what do you do?" About half an hour into the interrogation, Wathiq Kadhum and Muthanah Kadhum said they heard Bawi shout, ''Oh, you bastard!" Then, they said, a series of gunshots rang out. A soldier kicked the metal door to the washroom, the family theorized, perhaps to mask the noise of the bullets. The translator and officer came to the kitchen and told the relatives they had test-fired the confiscated weapon. Wathiq Kadhum said he demanded to know what happened. ''The translator told me, shut up, don't ask questions," he said. Someone -- in the darkened kitchen, he could not tell who -- then hit him in the face with the butt of a gun, he said. His forehead bears a seven-stitch scar, and videotapes from his uncle's funeral show a bandage around his forehead with a streak of blood. ''Anyone who moves, we'll kill him," Muthanah Kadhum said the translator told him. Shortly before 4 a.m., the soldiers left, taking with them a hooded man wearing one of Bawi's white robes, family members said. The family regrouped in the yard. ''It was ordinary. We thought they had taken Sajid and maybe they would return him within a month," said his brother Nasser Bawi, 36, who lives in the next-door house, which is separated from Bawi's by a 3-foot-wide alley. He had waited in front of the house during the raid with another brother, Qasim Bawi, 40, and with a group of neighbors. ''We were sure he was just arrested and would come back." One neighbor brought wire cutters to remove the plastic cuffs binding the hands of the three men. When the power came back on, family members and neighbors filtered into the house to survey the mess and damage left from the soldiers' search -- cabinet doors askew, doors broken, bedding and clothes thrown to the floor. That's when Hathima Hakim, Nasser Bawi's mother, saw a pair of feet protruding from under a mattress. ''It was as if the ceiling had opened up and dropped him," she said. She screamed: ''It's Sajid!" Nasser Bawi came running, thinking that American soldiers had brought his brother home. ''I found him soaked in blood," he said, breaking into sobs as he stood next to the same refrigerator that had partially hidden Bawi's body. The coroner's report from the Baghdad Morgue, dated May 29, said Bawi had five bullet wounds: two in the torso, near the heart; two on his left side; and one in his right thigh. Qasim Bawi represented the family in several visits to a nearby US base, the first one a few days after the funeral. At an officer's request, he brought letters -- from neighborhood and tribal councils, from an Islamic charity, and from the actors' union -- attesting to Bawi's good character. According to his brothers, Bawi, like the rest of the family, welcomed the United States as liberators. ''When Saddam was captured, he hired a band for the neighborhood," Qasim Bawi said. Family snapshots show Wathiq Kadhum, the brother with the forehead scar, frolicking in a waterfall last summer, his arm around a female US soldier. Now the family lives in fear. The children said they can't sleep. Knocks at the door make the men jump. Ali, at 11 the eldest of Bawi's children, said he has a recurrent nightmare in which he cannot find his family. ''I don't go near the Americans anymore, because I'm afraid they will kill me," Ali said. Bawi's relatives say they want an apology from the Army, a trial for the person who shot him, and only then, financial compensation. Qasim and Nasser Bawi think the soldiers were tricked by an Iraqi informant who had a personal gripe against their slain brother, a well-known figure in the neighborhood who ran a business renting tents and chairs for funerals. They do not have a guess as to who the informant was, but they refer to him as ''Hassan," because one of the neighbors contends he heard an American soldier say, ''No, Hassan," to the informant as they left the house. Less than a month before his death, Bawi starred as Abbas, a founding figure of Shi'ite Islam, in a Sadr City production. His brothers scoffed at the allegation that Bawi had killed an American soldier, or that he fought the soldiers who were interrogating him during the raid. ''He was so fat, he couldn't run," Nasser Bawi said. ''How could he be in the resistance?" With school over for the summer and their mother in mourning, Sajid Bawi's five children stay in the house all day. The women cry ritualistically, especially when visitors come. They refuse to clean a spot of blood on the wall where they say Bawi was shot, or replace a shattered windowpane, or move the refrigerator into its proper place. ''They think they have killed one man," Qasim Bawi said. ''They have killed the whole family." Thanassis Cambanis can be reached at tcambanis@globe.com.

Greenfaux: Didn't you know that these verses are only for personal relationships, not national affairs? PuhLeeze don't bring up the 'love thy enemy' stuff in the context of the war on terrorism.

I used to work on a flower farm where we grew flowers to sell to florists. I would have to pick lilac flowers for 2 or 3 weeks straight each spring all day long. I was literally drunk with lilac fragrance! Talk about aromatherapy! :il:

I think sometimes you can't tell the difference at all!!! The parable of the wheat and the tares illustrates this perfectly. In that parable we are asked not to try to root out the tares but to let them grow up together side by side and let God sort them out at the judgement. We should definitely try to be discerning between good and evil, but we might be wrong sometimes. True Christians might not look like your idea of a Christian sometimes. For example if someone came to your church Sunday in a camel hair suit with long dredlocks, dirty from sleeping in the wilderness, you would probably freak, but he may just be one of the sons of God. There are plenty of non-believers that have a lot of love in their hearts. Be very careful using this for a criteria.

Thanks for your point of view, ted! So is this article negative liberal spin or is it really happening? :bright: Seriously, though, what do you think needs to be done to bring the numbers up? I can't help but think "draft" when I hear this. Also, by numbers you might mean military budget too. Where should this come from?

Aarrgh! If you disagree it must be negative liberal spin or scripture twisting or out of context..........sorry you don't like the article.

Army Issues Order to Stop U.S. Soldiers from Leaving WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army has issued orders preventing thousands of soldiers designated to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan from leaving the military even when their volunteer service commitment ends, officials said on Wednesday. The latest "stop loss" and "stop movement" orders, broader than others issued previously, were a further sign of increasing stress on the Army as the Pentagon strives to maintain adequate troop levels in the two conflicts. Lt. Gen. Franklin Hagenbeck, the Army's personnel chief, told reporters it would be wrong to see the move as a symptom of desperation but acknowledged that the Army was "stretched." The Army issued the orders for active-duty soldiers and reservists in all units that will deploy outside the United States for future missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hagenbeck said the orders were open-ended, and could be in place for several years while the Army reorganizes itself into smaller, more-interchangeable units. The orders were meant to protect the cohesiveness of deployed units by keeping together soldiers who have worked and trained together, he said. The "stop loss" order means that soldiers who otherwise could leave the service when their volunteer commitments expire, starting 90 days before being sent, will be compelled to remain to the end of their overseas deployment and up to another 90 days after they come home. A "stop movement" order blocks soldiers from shifting to new assignments during the restricted period. The Army previously has issued such orders covering some troops in the two conflicts. Since the attacks on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, some 45,000 soldiers have been affected by such orders, Hagenbeck said. ALL-VOLUNTEER MILITARY Critics argue that preventing soldiers from leaving the military at the end of their contractual obligation was a breach of trust, and undermined the concept of the all-volunteer military. Without "stop loss," the Army would be forced to continuously replace thousands of soldiers in deployed units as their service commitments expired, Hagenbeck said. "The rationale is to have cohesive, trained units going to war together. What you don't want to have happen is to walk out on the battlefield and meet each other for the first time and shake hands. And that's happened to me and all my predecessors, and we cannot do that. That puts soldiers lives at risk," Hagenbeck said. Troops were eager to go to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, he said. "Soldiers want to go do this. This, by and large, is why the joined the Army," Hagenbeck said. Army spokesmen were unable to give a figure for how many soldiers would be affected beyond saying it would be in the thousands. The Pentagon has already taken steps to meet its plans to keep the total of 138,000 troops in Iraq to the end of 2005. About 20,000 troops in Iraq were ordered to remain three months beyond their promised departure date. The Pentagon is moving to Iraq 3,600 soldiers from South Korea, where they have guarded against aggression from North Korea. And the Army is considering deploying units that until now have merely played the role of "enemy forces" in training exercises in the United States.

Is this an invitation to the boxing ring, ted?

So you think if he had come clean about WMDs, we would not have taken him out? I think it would have given us a perfect excuse to go after him. But since he didn't relinquish the info, we took him out anyway, just in case. He was doomed either way.

I hope you're not serious with these comments! Your'e just joking, right? Please don't forget that there are people in Syria, you know, babies, moms, dads, grandpas, grandmas, aunts,uncles....people made in the image of God, people that God loved. Please don't forget that God so LOVED the world, and we are to be conformed to the image of Christ who taught us to LOVE OUR ENEMIES........ Besides, invading a country without warning is illegal, would be a war crime, and would just put more blood on our hands. It would also be an act of terrorism.

Yeah right. The ones that aren't dead, maimed, dismembered or survivors of cruel and inhumane treatment are free, minus a few family members and relatives in most cases. As for the children growing up and living, the ones who miraculaously avoided exposure to depleted uranium and severe emotional trauma will probably carry on. The human species is remarkably resilient.

Catsmeow: This is long but it is the most moving, profound piece on glorying in our tribulation that I have seen in a long time. May it bless you as much as it has blessed me: When John the Baptist was introducing the Lord to the people, he said that Christ would baptize them with the Holy Ghost and with fire. Then he continued,

That was a good one, yod! That had me going for a while! No offense.........

Fishy Circumstances and Flawed Timelines UPDATE 12:45PM Central: This just in -- U.S. spokesman says decapitated American was never held by U.S. forces With several news outlets reporting that Berg's family is angry from the US government over their son's violent death and revelations that "Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days" (in other words, he was detained by the US military just prior to his death) -- (AP 5/11/04) we have to question what really happened and who was really behind Berg's horrific murder. We have received several emails from listeners questioning what really happened including this one: me and a friend were discussing recent news events and trying to piece together the information presented to us, thought you might want to look into this further, they said in the news that nicholas berg was killed 2 weeks ago (i think), however in the video the culprits who killed him said they were "avenging iraqi prisoner abuse" but those photos weren't released until last week, so my question is how is that even a possible motive if he was killed prior to the abuse photos being released?? maybe i am misinformed but thought id ask the question to someone who would look into it And this one: Hey Alex, I know people like me who have learned not to trust our government tend to see a conspiracy under every rock. With that said... The picture the media is now showing of the guy the terrorist beheaded as revenge for what went on in the Iraqi prisons looks odd to me. If you look at the men dressed in black, they all seem well fed. Actually most look fat. That bothers me, because these guys are fighting a war and eating on the run. They are constantly on the move and should be either very fit and trim or scrawny and malnourished because of the same reasons. One thing they should not be is fat like couch potatoes. If you look at all of the photos of the prisoners who were naked who supposedly were just plucked of the street, most of them are thin. Just an observation Alex And this one: 1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis 2) CNN poll question: "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?" Bush has been reported to be struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national security" issues for witholding additional materials. 3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody. 4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue (compare with pictures at Guantanamo). 5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit). Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to change). 6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited. Goes from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost motionless Berg on floor as head cut off. 7) Audio clearly dubbed in. 8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on the same page. Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what page he's on? 9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin. 10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms. 11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it. 12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip. 13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open. 14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly dubbed in. 15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his identity". Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by family. Jeff Rense has compiled some important information on Berg's detainment and questioning what really happened in his article, " Why Did The US Take Custody Of Nick Berg?" Two things are for sure: First, Berg parents feel that their son was abandoned and betrayed by the US Government. Second: NeoCons have already started to use Nick Berg's murder to justify torture and more war

DELIVER US FROM EVIL (cont.) DELIVER Our English word "deliver" has it's roots in the Latin 'liberare' which means to set free or liberate. Webster's defines deliver: (1) To carry and turn over to the intended recipients things such as letters or goods. In this case it is our lives and souls that are being delivered. God carried His children on Eagle's wings (Ex 19:4) and the intended recipient was Himself. Today we have Jesus carrying us in His hands to bring us to the Father. (2) To give into another's possession or keeping. We are being delivered from Satan, sin, darkness and evil into God's keeping, we have become God's possession, His peculiar treasure.(1 Peter 2:9) (3) To set free or liberate. This is the most common notion of Biblical deliverance. Jesus announced at the very beginning of His ministry His mission to deliver when He recited Isaiah 61:1,2 in the synagogue in Luke 4:16-21. ".........to proclaim liberty to the captives........ to set at liberty those who are oppressed......." The Amplified Bible translates "set at liberty" as "send forth as delivered". (4) To release or save, as from evil or trouble (5) To aid in the process of giving birth or being born. I want to discuss this facet of deliverance later as it holds some wonderful truths. US Again the ever-present reminder throughout this prayer of the need to pray not only for ourselves but for ALL our brethren. FROM These little words surprise me with how much meaning they hold. They are not as insignificant as one might think, and often help to throw yet more light on a verse. Websters: A particle or functioning word specifying: (1) A starting point, source or origin. In the context of this verse it is important to note that the starting point, source or origin is EVIL. (2) A removal or separation in space, time, or order. Separation is an important Biblical concept; basically being called, set apart, & sanctified, like the priests in Leviticus. In this context deliverance from evil means being set apart, separated out of, sancitifed from evil. We could also say being made holy. "Be ye separate and be ye holy". Pretty significant, eh? (3) Discrimination, distinction, as in 'one from another'. We see this distinction between God's people and the nations in several motifs in the Bible. The separating of the sheep from the goats (Matt 25:32), the wheat from the tares (Matt 13:30). God's people have a mark or seal that makes them distinct (Rev 7:3), Israel had the circumcision. We are called to be a peculiar people, a royal priesthood. In our deliverance from evil, we should bear a distinction or mark. The Greek word for 'from' is APO and is defined in an online Hebrew/Greek lexicon as: "Separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed." Wow! In other words, our fellowship or union with evil is destroyed as we are separated out of it. What an awesome picture of deliverance and salvation is contained in this little word 'from'!!! EVIL The Greek word for 'evil' is PONEROS: full of labors, annoyances, hardships, perils bad, of a bad nature or condition physical-diseased or bad ethical-evil, wicked or bad In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word RA is used for evil and has a wide spectrum of defitnitions and translations assigned to it-----evil, bad, misery, pain, adversity, affliction, disaster, calamity, harm, wickedness, on and on and on. Webster's defines evil: "Morally wrong, sinful, wicked, repulsive, bad, harmful, characterized by misfortune or suffering, disastrous, due to bad character or conduct, and so on and so on. Here in Matthew 6:13 in the Lord's Prayer, the Greek word for evil is used in the nominative sense, better translated as The Evil and sometimes translated as The Evil One--implying Satan. Evil in this sense implies the collective evil, all evil. This word 'evil' paints a pretty broad picture and there is seemingly no end to the manifestations of this RA or PONEROS. We live right in the midst of a world filled with evil, and we in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation. (Phillipians 2:15) Not only that, but before we recieved Christ as our Deliverer we were captives of evil, prisoners of evils, slaves to evil, even lovers of evil! Yikes!! This collective evil is the 'spirit of the anti-christ', encompassing all that is not of Christ. The forces of good and evil, the Christ and the anti-christ, the annointed and the defiled, are polar opposites. We humans live either in one realm or the other. We are subject either to Christ in the kingdom of God, or to the anti-christ in the kingdom of darkness. One or the other reigns over our hearts and lives. In Deut 30:19 God made it black and white for the children of Israel. I call heaven and earth today as witness against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing (good and evil); therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live. Joshua also called them to "choose ye this day whom you will serve" (Joshua 24:15). The moment we pledged our heart to Jesus we were delivered from the power of darkness. The day that Israel passed through the Red Sea they were delivered from bondage to Pharoah, a type of the devil. And yet evil was still a constant presence even though the Lord had established His temple right at the center of their camp and likewise in our own hearts. There is a saying that goes "we have met the enemy and the enemy is us!" There is also a great Native american prayer that says, "O Great Spirit, give me strength to fight my greatest enemy, myself!" Who was Israel's greatest enemy? Surely not the inhabitants of Canaan? God promised them total victory if only they obeyed His commandments. Surely not the Pharoah or the many kings dwelling in the land? God had already shown them that He would prevail when He took out Pharoah in a seemingly impossible situation, as well as the kings of Og and Sihon. No, Israel's greatest enemies were themselves. We see over and over again that they did evil in the sight of the Lord, even after their initial deliverance. It was because of their own evil every single time that they were not able gain a complete and absolute victory in claiming their inheritance. The prophet Jeremiah in chapter 17:6 tells us that "the heart is deceitful above ALL things, and desperately wicked, who can know it?" And Jesus teaches us in Mark 7:20-23 "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. ALL these evil things come from within and defile a man." Today God has set up His tabernacle right in the center of the heart of every believer and yet sin and evil still abound in our flesh. Paul wrestled hard with this distressing truth in his wrenching discourse in Romans 7 when he declared (7:19) "For the good that I will to do, I do not do, but the evil I will not to do, that I practice." & 7:21 "I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who will to do good". Finally he cries out "O wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death?" This is Paul, our pattern saint, crying out for deliverance from evil, the evil in his own heart! Whenever the children of Israel, who are a type of the NT church, did evil in the sight of the Lord, they would bring down defeat upon themselves. They were powerless to deliver themsleves and generally made a pretty good mess of things when they tried to do anything without seeking God's counsel. And yet, whenever they finally cried out to the Lord, He heard them and was faithful to deliver. "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." What an awesome promise! And not just once, but over and over again! All we have to do is cry out! Jesus gave us an eternal reminder of this truth in the Lord's Prayer. "Deliver us from evil!!" If we humble ourselves and cry out for a deliverance from the evil in our own hearts, God will take care of the rest. We are empowered to deal with any circumstance, no matter how grim if we are pure in heart, filled with a spirit of love and a sound mind. The more that we are filled with the mind and Spirit of Christ, delivered from the evil and darkness in our hearts, the more able we are to overcome and endure anything that comes against us. What a powerful truth. Cry out to Him for this deliverance! Oh Lord, deliver us from the evil that lives in our own flesh, our carnal nature, the deceits of our heart! Fill our hearts with more and more of your light, expose the darkness within us that we would become brighter and brighter unto the perfect day! Help us not to forget to turn to You each day for deliverance, that our hearts would not be lifted up against You. :il: