Permie

I am not looking for anything more then to understand what you are saying. I agree. We should never go against His leading when dealing with another. Yet, I have to wonder why it was that He allowed me to notice a sin if it were not to speak the truth to them. It may not be right then and there. He may still have more to show me, or wisdom to bestow upon me, but He never reveals anything without a purpose. One need to seek and understand what the purpose is. It may very well be that He is leading another to speak to a person who sins, and is preparing me to be the second or third witness. Only He knows the correct way to deal with any situation, and if we are paying attention, He may reveal it to us. "Noticing a sin"... could that be roundabout way of saying that something in particular was "revealed"? Otherwise, I don't know how difficult it is to see sin. Yes, I used the word twice after, but forgot to rewrite the first incident. I agree. He moves and only reveals the secrets of another when He needs us to obey. I am sure there are other reasons why He would reveal the sin of someone, for the protection of another as one example. A person may be in charge of the church treasury and an accountant thief. That is why it is so relevant and important to listen, understand and obey. In such a situation of the example given, I would go immediately to whom would be the most hurt, which is often the same person whom gave such an individual their job.

Yes, there's that too. Seeing after the fact. I know that when I have been a bit undisciplined in watching my thoughts, and not engaging in prayer as much as possible... even to the extent of praying without ceasing... that I would indeed need to be very careful. I've come to recognize God, His power, His workings... I prefer to wait on the Lord and during that waiting, yes, He can still use and work through us, which can be seen after the fact.

I am not looking for anything more then to understand what you are saying. I agree. We should never go against His leading when dealing with another. Yet, I have to wonder why it was that He allowed me to notice a sin if it were not to speak the truth to them. It may not be right then and there. He may still have more to show me, or wisdom to bestow upon me, but He never reveals anything without a purpose. One need to seek and understand what the purpose is. It may very well be that He is leading another to speak to a person who sins, and is preparing me to be the second or third witness. Only He knows the correct way to deal with any situation, and if we are paying attention, He may reveal it to us. "Noticing a sin"... could that be roundabout way of saying that something in particular was "revealed"? Otherwise, I don't know how difficult it is to see sin. I too have had such revelations. If this is what you are talking about, I believe that this is done so that you are aware of what it is that is being dealt with. With this knowledge, future interactions can be geared towards that specifically while also staying within guidelines as provided by scripture, such as shown in post #128. As always, there are exceptions. There are individuals whom are sufficiently humble whom can be outright instructed: Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning. Proverbs 9:9 If you are unsure of how to proceed, I'd engage in more prayer. For myself, I can tell when God is moving me. And, perhaps this is what is to be waited on in your particular situation?

OneLight, What was inadequate in my original response, post #122, to your question? What more are you looking for? I obey what is instructed as a result of the prayer prayed. The result can be and most often is instantaneously life changing. Other times, however, the appropriate response does not yield such quick results, such as "being a living example" would take time. I do not wish to find out what not obeying what was instructed would yield. I can imagine though that for a person whom needs a living example to be instructed in the ways of the Lord, that if I decided I knew better than God and took a different tack and decided to speak to that person, I could totally cause that person to run. On the other hand, if I decided to not speak the words the Lord gave me to speak to someone, and thought it better to be a living example instead, what do you suppose the result of that would be? Besides, the obvious of God finding someone else whom is obedient to work through?

There's sin as we have discussed: intentional, then there's errors, and then there's ignorance. Generally, I would place error and ignorance in the same category. We cannot fault ignorance. We have all been ignorant at one point or another about something. So, yes, we would show them love. Telling people that they are wrong, in those words, I have found not to be helpful. Patience and love is the route to go. Plus, those other virtues I posted earlier about which against there is no law are required in our efforts. (That post would then stand in it's entirety.) That is what I said, in love, not thumping them with scripture. If you are talking about Galatians 5:22-23, then I agree, they are the fruit of the Spirit. If that is not what you are referring to, which post are you talking about? I am referring to Post #128, wherein the verses from Galatians were posted.

Ha! Said I was tired! That's the verse you quoted earlier in the thread! (Was that before or after I went to bed?) Anyway you had asked: There's sin as we have discussed: intentional, then there's errors, and then there's ignorance. Generally, I would place error and ignorance in the same category. We cannot fault ignorance. We have all been ignorant at one point or another about something. So, yes, we would show them love. Telling people that they are wrong, in those words, I have found not to be helpful. Patience and love is the route to go. Plus, those other virtues I posted earlier about which against there is no law are required in our efforts. (That post would then stand in it's entirety.)

Oh, you're talking about bringing those who do not know Jesus to Him? Not necessarily bringing someone who has known Jesus, but has turned back; what is often called back-sliding? If you mean the unsaved, yes, I've spoken with a number of atheists who have come to believe. The lost too have been given the hope of Christ. Lives have been changed... wonderful to witness as well as to watch their growth in Christ. Praise God! I guess the common term of backsliding could be used, but it is not scriptural, just a label someone came up with. Scripture reads "if anyone among you wanders from the truth", which to me means that someone, another christian, has wondered from the truth, not fallen from grace. I just did a quick New Testament search using the words: wanders truth, and didn't find anything. Hmmm, let me check another version. Still nothing. What version do you use? I recall a verse that says: Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:20. Is that the one you are referring to?

Oh, you're talking about bringing those who do not know Jesus to Him? Not necessarily bringing someone who has known Jesus, but has turned back; what is often called back-sliding? If you mean the unsaved, yes, I've spoken with a number of atheists who have come to believe. The lost too have been given the hope of Christ. Lives have been changed... wonderful to witness as well as to watch their growth in Christ. Praise God!

Amen;; It's pretty hard to be around Him and listen to Him reprove you, no matter how gentle and not be aware that we are indeed a work in progress. That is should be a very good reason for us to forgive others. Amen and Amen! Yes, others too are a work in progress! If we are overly concerned with what another's sins might be we are failing to "work out our own salvation" and ignoring what our "own beam in our own eye is". (References to: Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.) Yes, we are to constantly be in check, but what do you do if you see a brother or sister sin? Are we to ignore them because we are not perfect or are we to show them love and tell them that what they are doing is wrong? It depends. I always pray first. Different answers come for the appropriate response for that individual. Sometimes the answer is to be a living example. Yes, it is wise to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but James tells us of the importance of turning someone back. James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. It has been my experience that those who have corrected me personally, I have learned from, respected more and even became closer for they showed me enough love to become involved. They did not so this by bashing me with scripture, but in the love of Christ. They showed patience, gentleness, and empathy (to a point). I think that we are essentially saying the same thing. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23 That's not to say that there are times when a specific behavior must be shown to be known to exist, such as, but not limited to: manipulating, haughtiness, game playing, and lying that prevents a beneficial relationship. The key is to not return evil for evil... that which is known as resisting evil. (Matthew 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.)

Friends, I must take myself to bed. Another big day of activities is before me tomorrow and the day after that as well. Almost too tired to budge right now as it is, lol. Praise the Lord! I am grateful. Good night, and may you all rest well and be totally restored!

I think we try to help those, and especially brothers in the Lord right. In Matthew it has a kind of procedure. Talking to them, taking someone else along, then then bring it to the attention of the church. Paul even seem to turn them over to the devil so that they might come to a realization. And prayer does work doesn't it? Gotta be careful when turning someone over to Satan.

Amen;; It's pretty hard to be around Him and listen to Him reprove you, no matter how gentle and not be aware that we are indeed a work in progress. That is should be a very good reason for us to forgive others. Amen and Amen! Yes, others too are a work in progress! If we are overly concerned with what another's sins might be we are failing to "work out our own salvation" and ignoring what our "own beam in our own eye is". (References to: Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.) Yes, we are to constantly be in check, but what do you do if you see a brother or sister sin? Are we to ignore them because we are not perfect or are we to show them love and tell them that what they are doing is wrong? It depends. I always pray first. Different answers come for the appropriate response for that individual. Sometimes the answer is to be a living example.

Yes, to whom is given much, much is required. Restraining our actions have merit, but if the thought persists, it can brew. It is, imo, best to train our mind to dismiss those temptations. Using the word as Jesus did while being tempted, and scripture tells us that He was tempted in ALL things*, is very effective. For us, I believe that if we continually train our mind with scripture that those thoughts that lead to error will flee and leave forever. (*Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.) Error flees from the Light that is contained in the Word. We are instructed to "put on the armour of God", it doesn't just jump on us by it's self. (Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.) Just as we are patient with others, we too should be patient and kind towards ourselves too and never forget that Jesus is our High Priest and makes intercessory prayer for us on our behalf*. Thank you, so much, Jesus. (*I can't find the scripture for that right off, but it's in there somewhere.)

Amen;; It's pretty hard to be around Him and listen to Him reprove you, no matter how gentle and not be aware that we are indeed a work in progress. That is should be a very good reason for us to forgive others. Amen and Amen! Yes, others too are a work in progress! If we are overly concerned with what another's sins might be we are failing to "work out our own salvation" and ignoring what our "own beam in our own eye is". (References to: Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.)

Paul mentioned that he took all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. This I find amazing. Not that I doubt that he did, but when trying this, I find it virtually impossible. It I am able to take all my thoughts to Jesus Christ for a 15 minute strecth, that is doing pretty good for me. Maybe I can go an hour here or there, but it always seem like I get distracted. So mostly what I try to do is to remember to keep turning back to Him through out the day. Maybe each hour I can get myself to turn back, talk to Him. Check on what thoughts are going through my head. Get a few answers on how I am doing, and if I'm going the right direction. Seriously, is anyone here getting that close to Paul as to taking every thought captive to Him. Just asking?? I have that particular verse written out and is on my refrigerator, along with: Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. I do monitor my thoughts. Aware of each one that comes. If they don't line up with the above, I change them usually through the use of praising God. But sometimes I can't yet get to praise first and have to think of what is true, and then the praise progresses from there. All thoughts can be taken captive. We just have to be aware. Actions follow thoughts don't they?