JWWhiteJr

And "AT" the day, means "AT" the day. I just go by the wording that is in the text. The scripture has confirmed for me, The Rapture of the Bride of Christ. (In Spades). Wish I could share my findings with you. Really!! I just chimed in because of the title of the thread. Looking back, I didn't know that I would be answered by someone so far removed from my own beliefs. As for the church not being born before Jesus made that statement, the word "church" is translated from the word ecclesia, (forgive my spelling) an assembly, or a gathering (of like minded believers). The church existed before Pentecost, it was only on that day that it was empowered by the Holy Spirit in full. The Spirit was even given before the day of Pentecost, with Jesus, breathing on the desciples and saying, "receive ye the Holy Spirit" (or some words to that effect, you can look it up.) And, Revelation 1:7 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (According to the scripture. I have no choice than to believe what it says, and let the scripture teach me how the rest of God's Word agrees with that passage.) We're not going to agree on (nearly) anything, since most of your doctrine relies on allegory when the scripture doesn't say what your doctrine already prescribes to. However, I still count you as a brother, and fellow believer since you seem to be adamant in your view and belief in Jesus. Son of God, our sacrifice and savior. Grace, Mercy, and Peace to you and all of yours.

well I have come to believe that some will be "raptured" to what is hinted as Ezekiel's temple, and then I suspect things might get very interesting then. but I am sure it all isn't over until it is all over. others won't be 'raptured " and will be here to call fire from heaven and do a bit of the Father's family business! I am not familair with some of the references in this post, but it hints of a separation - years ago, what I understood and called The Conditional Rapture. I have come to learn it is called by the church, The Partial Rapture, but is rejected by the majority. I believe, teach, and promote The Conditional (or Partial) Rapture. But this thread is for the defense of the Pre-Trib Rapture of The Bride, of which the Partial Rapture most definitely is Pre-Tribulational. On that note, I had always believed that the Pre-Trib Rapture was recorded in the Old Testament, even though we understand that Pre-Tribbers teach that The Rapture was a "mystery" to the Old Testament saints and prophets. Nevertheless, I believed it was recorded. 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. On that note, Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians contains the record of the “catching up”, and what is considered by Pre-Tribulationists as the Rapture of the Church. By Pre-Tribulation doctrine, as the name implies, we believe this event will occur before the Great Tribulation. There are several reasons we believe this to be true, but the heart of the matter lies in the fulfillment of the promise Jesus himself gave to us as recorded by John. John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Jesus is informing us through his disciples he is returning to Heaven (to the Father’s house) to prepare “a place of dwelling” for us there. Upon its completion he will return to the earth, and the implications are that he will gather us “unto himself” that where he is (in the Father’s house) there we will be also. The future fulfillment of this promise is recorded in 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be “caught up” together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This passage records the “catching up” of the Bride of Christ. But, although it documents the resurrection of the dead at that time, it does not record the change that will occur to those who are resurrected nor of those that are alive and being “caught up“ with them to meet the Lord in the air. Paul documents that information in 1st Corinthians 15:50-54. 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Jesus triumphed over death, hell and the grave as he released his last breath upon giving his life on the cross. The very words contained in his last breath were, “It is finished”. What was finished was the Old Covenant and with it, the close of the 69th week wherein he (The Messiah) was cut off (or killed), leaving only the 70th week of Daniel to be fulfilled after the close of what was initiated upon his death, The Church Age. As he gave up the Holy Ghost the veil of the temple was ripped in two from the top to the bottom, there was an earthquake, and the rocks rent. The veil that had separated mankind from the presence of God under the Old Covenant was destroyed along with the covering (or vail of Isaiah 25:7) that had blinded the world to the truth in Jesus as The Christ and true Messiah, thereby fulfilling Isaiah 25:7. This can be verified by the words of the centurion in Matthew 27:54, “Surely this was the Son of God”. The vail that had covered his eyes had been removed. Currently under The New Covenant, the penalty for unbelief having been paid, man can approach God himself, individually (through the call of the Spirit of God) by way of accepting Jesus as the perfect Son of God sacrificing himself in our stead. There is no other means by which one can attain everlasting or eternal life. Although Jesus triumphed over death, hell and the grave through his sacrifice, with his death he began a process that is not yet complete. The passage documenting our change says,, “So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.” Death shall not be swallowed up in victory until our change and the resurrection of the dead, as it is written. Where is this written? Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. How will he swallow up death in victory? Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. This he did with his death, bringing the 69th week to its conclusion and initiating the New Covenant in his own blood. The world now awaits the 70th week of Daniel that will begin with the signing of the anti-christ’s peace agreement (or covenant) with Israel, after the conclusion of the Church Age. How do we know that the catching up will occur before the 70th week? The prophet Isaiah tells us so. Isaiah 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation. This passage documents for us that “in that day” (or time, or age) between the removal of the covering of the vail (which was accomplished with the death of Christ) and death being swallowed up in victory (the resurrection, change, and our being caught up), God‘s people will cry, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation" (the cry of The Bride today, who is in a constant state of anticipation, waiting on the coming of her BrideGroom). He will at that time (“in that day” before the close of the Church Age) remove the “rebuke” (or shame) of his people (the corruption and mortality of this sinful and filthy flesh we so hate) as documented by 1st Corinthians 15:50-54. Then Jesus will personally remove his Bride (without any help from the angels) from the presence of the earth as documented by 1st Thessalonians 4 16-18. Isaiah confirms this just one chapter later. Isaiah 26:19-21 19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. This is "a" resurrection, soon to be identified as "the" resurrection of the dead at the time of The Rapture, as referenced by 1st Cor. 15:50-54, and directing the reader to Isaiah chapter 25, which led us to chapter 26. 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.