TheGenuineChristian

1) The Second Adam died, not God himself. The Lord Jesus died (Romans 10:9; Hebrews 13:20) not Yhvh. He wasn't just an ordinary man, try that spin with someone else. 2) One who knew his purpose here on earth and suffered in his strive to keep the Torah as he did keep it. 3) Yes. By the connection with the Father through the Holy Spirit. Now let me ask you a question: Who is the 'God' that is 'of' the Lord Jesus?

John 20:24 But Thomas (who was called the Twin), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.25So the other disciples told him,

I don't have time right now, about to leave to work and then after work go to bed, but when I wake I'll tackle Colossians 1:15-17, John 20:28, and Isaiah 9:6. Nothing there about Jesus being the Creator, the true God, or the Mighty God. Just wait for my reply before you freak out here. Thanks.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. John 10:26-30 Dear One, Would You Stone The LORD Jesus Too? Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:31 No, but apparently you would seeing how you agree with the accusers instead of agreeing with Jesus' disagreement with them.

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No, JWs do however come to me for my guidence on scriptures. Let me probe a bit more? Your beliefs are not mainstream, to which denomination do you subscribe? I know my beliefs are not the majority. I prefer the narrow path. I go to Slavic Gospel Church and City On A Hill and other Assemblies. I wouldn't call it a 'denomination.' The Pillars for my faith are: Jesus, John, Peter, and Paul.

Sorry but the Greek NT does not support your conclusion. "First born" in Col. 1:15-16 is a title denoting rank. He is the firstborn, or "chief" of creaetion. It is not saying that Jesus was created. Firstborn is not paternal term, but rather a term denoting Jesus' authority over all creation. You need to learn how to interpret the NT's use of such titles of rank. It clearly states that Jesus is the Creator of the world. You are trying to skate around the clear teachings of Jesus' Deity. Verse 16 says that all things were created by Christ, through Him and for Him. It NOWHERE claims that Jesus is created. You are relying on an errant translation. The Greek does not support that rendering. Accept that Jesus does present himself that way. Jesus absolved of sin, received worship, gives eternal life and calls Himself the embodiment of eternal life. AND Jesus calls Himself God. Not a "god" but God. Angels cannot absolve of sins and neither can humans. Only God can ultimately absolve of sin and that is what Jesus did. Sorry, but your position relies on a very flawed approach to Scripture. You need to drop the Watch Tower and believe the truth. You need to learn somehting about the term "Elohim." Elohim is used a variety ways in various contexts. When used of human beings it usually refers to representatives or emmisaries of God. Human magistrates are referred to as "elohim" but only because they sit in a seat of authority. The term "Eolhim" only denotes Deity when applied to God. Jesus was not a "god" in the sense tha tMoses was. Moses was an "elohoim" a representative standing in God's stead. I speak and read Hebrew. If I had the time, I would parse through your poor usage of Hebrew and explain how you are misusing it. As it stands, I will have to wait until later. Jesus is one in essence with the Father. Jesus and the Father are both God. Jesus was pre-existent with the Father as God. God = Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus is not a "god." That leads to the heresy of polytheism and that is unacceptable. 1) The Greek says it, your opinion just doesn't like it. But I'm curious, do you agree with the ante-nicene fathers that Proverbs 8:22+ is about the Son in his pre-human existence or do you have a different take on it? 2) Firstborn means exactly what it says plus certain rights. If Jesus is not the literal firstborn of all creation then tell me who is. Paul doesn't say he replaces the firstborn of all creation but rather says he is the firstborn of all creation. 3) You have no clue when it comes to Greek. Go buy yourself Daniel B. Wallace's book 'Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.' John 1:1 on itself can support my position, the Trinitarian position, and the Oneness/Modalist position. I don't feel like typing it all out, but if you insist I will and show you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to the Greek of John 1:1. The Sahidic Coptic is our oldest translation of the Greek gospel of John. There is no older translation. I can say the KJV, NIC, etc, etc are nothing but errant translations when it comes to John 1:1. 4) Jesus doesn't call himself God anywhere. You need to back this up. Book, Chapter, and Verse? Sorry, but Jesus has been given the authority to judge and forgive sins. Apparently you don't read the Bible too well when it comes to that subject. Watchtower got nothing on me. Please, don't bother me with your "Hebrew" lessons. I know that elohim is a homonym just like el. What you are forgetting is that Theodotion renders theos in the place of elohim for Exodus 7:1, Exodus 4:16 (interprets the text), and Psalm 82:6 (theoi). I can turn around and say all the places where Jesus is called theos is really means elohim and spin what you said concerning elohim and you have nothing to argue with. Thanks for helping my case. By the way, I'm curious, how is "theos" used in 2 Corinthians 4:4? Is haSawtan the Creator of this world when it calls him 'the theos of this world'? If not, then define how theos is used in 2 Corinthians 4:4 and that'll be one step point stronger against your argument. Did I not make my question clear to you? You want me to answer your questions but yet you can't even answer mine? Who is the God of the man Jesus? I think you're starting to see why you're in big trouble by this question.

No, JWs do however come to me for my guidence on scriptures.

hē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou Does not refer to Jesus as the first unique creation. Rather, it refers to Jesus as the source of Creation. Jesus, according to Paul in Col. 1:15-16 and John 1:1-4 is the Creator. Okay, but do you believe that Jesus was and is God? Do you believe that Jesus was eternally co-existent with the Father from the immeasurable eternity past, and took on human flesh when He was supertnaturally conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of a virgin girl named Mary/Miriam? He can't be the source, the Father is the source; One God, the Father, FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS. Rather he's the Beginning of God's creation. He can't be God since he is the beginning of someone else's creation. Either you have two Almighty Gods or you have one Almighty God and one that is a unique creature. Colossians 1:15-16 is an awesome passage, for it says he is the firstborn of all creation, placing in him in the category of creation, (God is not the firstborn of all creation, rather he is the Creator of all creation) and then it says 'for in him all things were created' then it lists the things created in him. Thus, in the creation of the firstborn all rest was creation, lovely teaching of Colossians 1:15-16. Now as for John 1:1-4, the Sahidic Coptic is our oldest translation of the Greek text of John (180-200 AD) and it says 'and the word was a god' as opposed to the one who is 'the God' that he was with. He was in the beginning when he came to be there (since he is the first thing God created; Revelation 3:14) just like he was in the world (John 1:10) when he came to be there. John 1:1-4 says creation is through the word, not from the word. Creation is from the Father and through the Son; 1 Corinthians 8:6. Now as for your question. Yes, I believe Jesus was a god in his pre-human existence (John 1:1) as angels are gods (Psalm 8:5; mayelohim [than gods] and not maymalawkim [than angels/messengers]). As a man he was also god (John 20:28; Hebrews 1:9) just like Moses was god (Exodus 4:16; you shall be his god, that's what the Hebrew text actually says, Moses is god to Aaron, no getting around it) and Judges being gods (Exodus 22:8-9, the Hebrew word for judges is shaphat and yet elohim is used here, and also Psalm 82:6). Yet Jesus can't be Yhvh, the God of gods (Deuteronomy 10:17) for he has a God (John 20:17; Hebrews 1:9; Revelation 3:2; Revelation 3:12). Yhvh is not the God of idols, rather he is the God of gods (Jesus, Moses, Angels, Judges). In John 17:3 Jesus says the Father is the only true God. John confirms in 1 John 5:20 that the one who is true is in his Son, Jesus Christ. Paul also confirms that the living and true God is the Father in 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10. Yes, I believe in the virgin birth. Now let me ask you two questions: Who is the God of Jesus? How many persons is the God of Jesus? It makes no difference to me if you say he had a God as a man, I still want to know the answer to these questions, even as him being a man and having this God. Thanks.

I'd like to explain two passages before I answer the question on Who is Jesus. John 19:37 & Zechariah 12:10. In the Masoretic Text of Zechariah 12:10 it says VE-HEBITU

It's a shame that so many people fell for Harold Camping's false prophecy. It only gives Christianity a bad look.