SoGrateful

The NT churches spread the gospel and confirmed it’s truth with signs and wonders “… and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.” (Acts 2:43, 5:12). The NT churches were given powerful spiritual gifts to be used in the church and for evangelism “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit … the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healings, the working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues, interpretation of tongues.” (1 Corinthians 12:4-11) Paul was trained by the Lord for 17 years (Galatians 1:11--2:1), but … “… my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 1:5) The apostles warned that false teachers and false doctrines were coming “… there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies … And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words …” (2 Peter 2:1-3) Also see 2 Cor. 4:2, Eph. 4:14, Eph. 5:15-17, Col. 2:22, 1 Tim. 1:10, 2 Tim. 3:13, 2 Tim. 4:3-4, Heb. 13:9 The 2 major causes of the EARLY destruction of the spiritual gifts in the Christian church: First, we must recognize Satan and his powerful influence Satan, our mortal enemy, is the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world. “the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9). “there is no truth in him ... he is liar and the father of it” (John 8:44). “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4) … and … “the ruler of this world” (John 12:31). No one works against God and His purposes with more fury than Satan. He obviously attacks those who have the most spiritual power and authority. And he obviously attacks the doctrines that have the most spiritual power attached to them. Second, the “have-not” church leaders were an obvious problem The Lord did NOT give powerful spiritual gifts to everyone in the NT churches. These gifts were special anointings, which were connected with the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Naturally, those who did NOT have these spiritual gifts were jealous of those who had them. The “have-nots” in church authority had to find a way to protect their prestigious positions. They decided that pointing to 1 Corinthians 13:10 was their safest and best excuse. And many “have-not” church members went along with this rationalization. 1 Corinthians 13: 8 … But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect (complete) has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as also am known. “But when that which is perfect (complete) has come” … the NKJV footnote says: “Most likely, this is a reference to the Second Coming of Christ and the completion of all things (see verse 12). But some have interpreted this as referring to the completion of the NT canon.” As far as the NT canon being "that which is perfect" … it simply cannot be what Paul meant. Good exegesis simply disallows this interpretation. Paul was writing to the church at Corinth and he was writing things that were perfectly understandable to them. They had no way of knowing that there was even going to be a New Testament canon when Paul wrote this. I don't believe the Holy Spirit would have inspired Paul to write something to them that would have been totally incomprehensible because this was not at all a prophetic writing. “For now we see in a mirror dimly” … the NKJV footnote refers to Philippians 3:12 … “Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.” “face to face” … the NKJV footnote refers to 1 John 3:2 … “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” The inevitable result of this major doctrinal change There was a steadily-decreasing belief in this baptism and its’ resulting spiritual gifts. Unbelief, and the lack of seeking these blessings, resulted in fewer and fewer people receiving them. So, belief in the doctrine of the “second blessing”, and the knowledge that the spiritual gifts had not passed away, spiraled downward, and a great many dry years followed … until the early 1900’s.

Good, you're past the "only one baptism" nonsense. Now you need to get a revelation of what "the baptism with the Holy Spirit" really is! Hint: it's not the salvation baptism mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:13. The info you need is in this thread ...

Never been a shepherd. Watched a lot of 'em in Bulgaria. I only brought the verses to your attention to help you, sorry! Any other complaints, or is that it for today?

Fez ain't qualified to make a proper response to my challenge that ... 99.9% OF AMERICANS DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SHEPHERDS AND SHEEP! 'Cause she's from Sud Africa, for cryin' out loud! Fez, can you hear me down there?

If we don't understand the depths of the relationship between shepherds and their sheep ... we obviously don't understand the depths of what Jesus is talking about concerning this.

I really appreciate your post ... and, yes, I've heard this before. However, there are obviously more than one baptism mentioned in the NT. You might speak to the baptism with fire verses ... and the baptism with the Holy Spirit verses in which the Spirit comes UPON people, which has nothing to do with salvation.

His "evidently" shows that he's not so sure. How does this verse, and da water baptism verses, and da fire baptism verses, fit into his/your theory? “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church) … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13) Anyone with a brain should be able to see more than one baptism! Don't trust what man says (your big C may not even be born-again) ... trust the word and the Spirit.

Yeah, you're right ... let's just throw all of those other verses into the trash, and sleep happily ever after with the big E45. Thanks ... thou art a great blessing indeed.

Methunks we've found another one who believes he knows everything about shepherds and sheep! 'Dis must be our lucky day!

Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms (plural), of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. This kind of throws a monkey-wrench into the theory of only “one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5). There are several theories about what Paul was talking about, which can be researched. The following is my "doctrine of baptisms" … Baptism into the church (salvation) --- Baptizer: the Holy Spirit This does not refer to a phony salvation, which has always been quite prevalent, i.e. merely an intellectual belief, or conversion of one’s thinking. But this refers to being “born again (from above)” with the Holy Spirit entering the person. “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church) … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13) The Holy Spirit takes up residence INSIDE the believer … John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16. So, I classify this baptism as the one where the Holy Spirit comes “inside” people. Baptism in water (a symbolic demonstration of faith) --- Baptizer: man Full-immersion baptism in water is symbolic, being the outward expression of inward faith. Any other type of water baptism is unscriptural and just dreamed up by man. Paul said, “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17). We are justified by God’s gift of grace through faith, and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Baptism with the Holy Spirit (an anointing power for ministry) --- Baptizer: Jesus Christ John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33). This does not refer to salvation. But this refers the Holy Spirit coming UPON the believer … Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6. This baptism with the Holy Spirit comes after a person is born again (or at the same time). So, I classify this baptism as the one where the Holy Spirit comes “upon” people. Note: Approx. 8 times in the OT, the Spirit came UPON God's prophets as an ANOINTING to prophecy, etc. I believe only twice did a prophet say the Spirit came INSIDE of him. Now I ask you, wasn't it a tad difficult for them to know if the Spirit was upon them or inside of them? IMO, only if God told them directly, would they know for sure. In those 2 cases, the prophet was mistaken. [Muslims would love this ... a prophet mistaken! They insist that all of God's prophets were sinless.] Baptism with fire (extreme suffering for the gospel’s sake) --- Baptizer: Jesus Christ John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with fire (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16). Jesus asked His 12 disciples if they were able to be martyrs after Him: “Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?” (Matthew 20:22-23). Jesus told His 12 disciples that they would be martyrs after Him: “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with …” (Mark 10:38-39). All of the baptisms are glorious blessings, even the baptism with fire: “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake” (Matthew 5:10).

Great ... I realize that you think you know everything, but if you'd like to really learn about this, you should read books such as: http://www.amazon.co...3/dp/0310274419

How could there be just one baptism when we have Hebrews 6:1-2 ... post #5 is mandatory reading! Try it ... you might like it.

Could you give the Article link on what you base that information about "MOST" American's, and how the study was conducted. Thank you. Most Americans are not shepherds AND/OR they have not studied the subject. Mostly AND.

The sheep of the “new covenant” will be given eternal life “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant … I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people … they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31-34). Also see Ezekiel 36:25-27. “… let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows Me, … For in these I delight,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 9:23-24) The 2-way relationship between Jesus and His sheep results in eternal life “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. … I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. … and I know My sheep, and am known by My own … and I lay down My life for the sheep. … My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” (John 10:7-28) The sheep know Father God and Jesus, resulting in eternal life “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3) The Holy Spirit dwells within each of God’s sheep “And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth … you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. … If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with(in) him.”(John 14:16-23) God’s precious sheep have God dwelling inside of them. “And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.” (1 John 3:24) The sheep are led by the Holy Spirit, resulting in eternal life “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.” (Romans 8:14) The sheep allow themselves to be sanctified “Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His”, and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19) Jesus will reject those who are not His sheep “Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”(Matthew 7:19-21) It is God’s will that His sheep have a relationship with Jesus, and do God’s will. The sheep are God’s elect, i.e. the ones destined to gain eternal life “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined … whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” (Romans 8:28-30) Many blessings come from a knowing intimacy with the Lord “Out of intimacy with Jesus we receive discernment, direction, a knowing of what is right and wrong and what is holy and pure. Intimacy with Christ gives us a firmness wherein we are not tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. Stay close to Him so that you will have discernment about the foolishness going on around us.” (David Wilkerson, 2012) One question ... Did Jesus create sheep (with their unique characteristics) expressly to demonstrate to us how we should obediently trust and follow Him? One promise ... Most Americans have no idea what the true characteristics of sheep really are! Therefore, we are at quite a disadvantage when we read in the Bible about the 2-way relationship between Jesus and His sheep.

These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers: John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16 There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit coming UPON or resting UPON anyone. These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the Holy Spirit baptism: Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6 There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit being INSIDE, moving INSIDE, etc. In these 7 passages, UPON is linked with: Luke 24:49 ------ the promise … power Acts 1:4-8 –----- the promise … power … baptism with Holy Spirit Acts 8:14-19 –-- power … received Holy Spirit … laying on of hands Acts 2:1-4 –----- speaking in tongues … filled with Holy Spirit Acts 10:44-48 -- speaking in tongues … received Holy Spirit … the gift Acts 19:5-6 ----- speaking in tongues … baptism with Holy Spirit … laying on of hands Acts 11:15-17 -- baptism with Holy Spirit … the gift Please note that "promise" and "gift" are referring to the baptism with the Holy Spirit, not salvation. Please note that "power" is referring to spiritual power from God.

The Holy Spirit has baptized us into one body (the church) ... Praise God! But, Jesus baptizes some Christians with the Holy Spirit ... Praise God! Two different things entirely. I have 7 verses saying the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers: John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16 I have 7 verses saying the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the HS baptism: Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8 , Acts 2:1-4 , Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6 But, most Christians believe INSIDE and UPON are the same thing, i.e. all 14 verses refer to salvation! 7 verses omit the INSIDE placement. 7 verses omit the UPON placement. IMO, the precious and mighty Holy Spirit does NOT need to come UPON people before going INSIDE of them. Or, perhaps I misjudge Him ... perhaps He's a tad shy, and prefers to go in sloooooowly. So I'm asking, does this make any sense to you?

The beginning of the baptism with the Holy Spirit John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11). The other gospels say the same (Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33). Jesus instructed His disciples to wait for God's promise of spiritual power ”… Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49) Luke gives more details about Jesus' instructions “… He commanded them … to wait for the promise of the Father … you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. … you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:4-8) Then, approximately 120 people received what was promised above “When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” (Acts 2:1-4) The baptism with the Holy Spirit (accompanied by speaking in tongues) results in spiritual power! When one receives this baptism, the Holy Spirit always comes upon people (7 references). When one is born again, the Holy Spirit always comes inside people (also 7 references). For further study “the promise” of this baptism is also the “gift” mentioned in Acts 2:37-39, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17. Note: Acts 10:47-48 refers to receiving water baptism after receiving the Holy Spirit baptism. Note: Acts 11:18 says since the Gentiles received this baptism, they must be saved. Conclusion How can people insist that this baptism is the born-again salvation experience? This baptism is connected with tongues, and the spiritual “power” is the 9 spiritual gifts of 1 Cor 12.

From the diaries of my 9 evangelism trips to Bulgaria, I have summarized some highlights of my spiritual experiences. I compiled this testimony to show that God … · deserves to be praised and glorified for the wonderful things He has done · provides for (and protects) those whom He sends forth to do something for Him · confirms with signs and wonders the saving truth of His precious gospel Years before going to Bulgaria: After losing a tennis match, I was sitting alone (wearily) when God said very clearly within me (in a medium-volume voice): “When are you going to have had enough of this (i.e. playing a lot of tennis)?” I was shocked … I was not a religious person at all. Absolutely no one else was anywhere around at the time. I knew for sure that this had to be God! Months before going to Bulgaria: I woke up with a major “muscle pull” in my back (it must have been the way I slept). During many years of playing basketball, I had several of these types of injuries, and I knew this one would take about 10 days to heal. At 9 am, an elderly lady from our church phoned and asked me how I was doing. I told her that I was in pain and why. She said, “No problem!”, and told me to put my right hand where the pain was, and we would pray in agreement about it, and the Lord would take care of it. So, we prayed in faith “in the name of Jesus”, and instantly the pain was gone! For the next several months, I had a very very slight pain in that area of my back. I kept saying to people: “Isn’t it obvious that God wants me to remember His great healing power and also when and how He healed me!” My first evangelizing trip (1992): I joined a missions organization which was taking 60 people to Bulgaria. In the capital city of Sofia, at the last moment I was switched from the team going to a city in the far west to the team going to a city located right in the middle of southern Bulgaria. Later, I realized that it was God who did this, because this city was where God wanted me to set up my central home-base for future evangelizing all over southern Bulgaria. In Bulgaria prior to July 1991, it was: “... illegal to mention the name of Jesus or quote a Scripture verse in newspapers, or on radio, or television. Bulgaria had been the most Stalinistic of all the Communist nations in Europe; even more so than Russia itself.” … from page 6 of the book “Fire From Heaven” (ISBN 1-895-868-00-9) USA … A few months after my first trip, I received the baptism with the Holy Spirit. There were 15 of us attending a Sunday night church service. I was standing at the front, facing 6 people who were on the stage: my pastor and his wife, a visiting evangelist and his wife, my wife, and the piano player. We were all praying for me to receive the baptism. After a few minutes, I heard an angelic choir singing loudly (with instruments). Later, my pastor said he heard me speak a few words in tongues, and I kept saying, “They all had microphones!” (because of the loud singing). All on the stage also heard the angelic choir, as did 2 in the audience, for a total of 9 out of the 15 in attendance. We all heard it “in the spirit” because the angelic choir and instruments were not on the tape recording of the meeting. Bulgaria … One time the car died late on a Friday afternoon, and we pushed it to a mechanic’s shop. They really didn’t want to help, but God had other ideas. One mechanic rushed off to the parts store before it closed to get a water pump, and another one stayed late to install it. Later, our Bulgarian friends said it was quite a miracle for them to stay so late on a Friday afternoon; this is absolutely unheard of in Bulgaria! … Another time we were driving through steep mountains when the radiator boiled over with the temperature gauge showing “Hot”. All we had were about 4 cups of water to put in the radiator, but the gauge showed “Cold” all the way to our church destination. It was here that the Holy Spirit helped Tony (who knew only a few words of English) translate very well for me. Later, when Tony's church heard about this, they were really amazed because Tony didn’t know English. … Another time, a policeman found us parked illegally, and he also found several violations with my driving documents. He said the total fine could be as much as 20,000 leva ($400), but after some discussion (and many silent fervent prayers) he let us go free! About an hour later, we went to order 30,000 more gospel tracts at the government printing company; 1/2 the cost had to be paid in advance and amazingly it was exactly 20,000 leva! USA … At church, about 30 people were praying over me about my upcoming trip when one brother had a vision of me in a complete Orthodox priest’s outfit, holding a staff. In the vision, the people around me were bound by chains and when I touched their chains with the staff they fell off onto the ground. Our interpretation was -- the priest outfit: the people will see me as a man of God … the staff: represented God’s authority and power (like Moses) … the chains off: the people will be set free of spiritual bondages. Bulgaria … My #1 partner (Tony) and I had to use words in Bulgarian, English, and French to be able to communicate effectively. … We visited deacon Dinko and as we were leaving, he and his wife were praying for us and God gave him a vision of many angels around me (and on the road ahead of me), protecting me as I travelled! ... Tony’s sister (Christina) and I prayed for Tony’s painful toothache and red swollen gum, and they were healed almost instantly! Bulgaria … The Lord blessed Christina by instantly healing her painful lower back when we prayed for her. … The next day, Christina and I prayed for a young lady who had an inherited spirit of occultism (from her grandmother); she felt something moving in her stomach and her expression changed, as in: “she felt in her body that she was healed of her affliction” (Mark 5:29). Her evangelical mother told us that she had been praying every day for 7 years for this day of deliverance for her daughter. … Another young lady prayed to receive Jesus and was delivered of intense nervousness and stuttering; indeed, we saw a tremendous transformation in her speech and countenance! … In another village, the Lord instantly healed the first lady we prayed for, and she ran around the village telling people about it. … In another village, one lady’s paralyzed right arm was healed immediately, and a gypsy lady with a crutch had her painful hip instantly healed. … A man living next to us (in our home base city) had terminal cancer with only 3 months to live; we prayed for him and he accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior; we also prayed for his healing and 2 days later the family called from the hospital to say that the cancer was now in regression! Bulgaria … In one church, all 8 ladies who came forward for healing were “slain in the Spirit” (knocked over by the power of the Holy Spirit) and healed of what was afflicting them! … In the city where we were staying, the Lord ministered to 3 gypsy believers: Ilia was delivered from spirits of depression and suicide, his sister (who was close to death in the hospital) was healed, and another young man in the hospital was also healed. … In one village, while playing frisbee with some boys, I sprained my ankle (I heard quite a crunching sound), but when I got up off the ground I felt no pain at all and I knew that God had healed it. … Over the years, I was stopped by the police maybe 20 times for various traffic, driving, and parking violations, but I received only one $2 ticket during all of that time! USA … 10 years earlier, God told my wife and I to stop praying for my father’s salvation, that He would take care of it. … Now in Bulgaria, for the first time in 7 trips God persuaded me through 5 separate events (it’s a long story) to return home one month early! This was incredible, but because I did go home early, I had 4 weeks to rest before getting a call from my sister (from Canada) who said that my father was in the hospital again, and that maybe I should come home soon. And I arrived exactly 24 hours before my father died. During the day of his death, I was the only family member to converse with him. He was in a private room, and I felt comfortable praying out loud for more than a half-hour -- as I thanked Jesus, and praised Him, and covered the whole room (and us) with His blood, and chased any demons (who might have been there) out of the room. A few days later, after the funeral, my wife called to say that God had assured her very strongly that my father was in heaven! It seemed to us that his salvation was the result of God’s efforts to get me home one month early. Bulgaria … We met 3 Pentecostal believers who were being persecuted and were called insects (praying mantises) by their village; one of them (who was talking in tongues a lot) said: "God sent you to sow seeds in the village; and also so everyone who hears the message will have no excuse." This was a confirmation of what the Lord had told me years earlier: “I’m sending you to 2 types of people, etc.” … In the same village, God restored one lady who had lost her faith because of the terrible difficulties her blind husband was experiencing. … We actually helped in this “restoration” experience with several people. Some had kept the seed of faith for more than 60 years, all through the communist years until then, e.g. 2 older men who cried all through saying the sinner’s prayer.

It's good to discuss one passage at a time ... here's one: “… when they (Peter & John) had come down, (they) prayed for them* that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He (the Holy Spirit) had fallen upon none of them*. They* had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them*, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, ‘Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.’ ” (Acts 8:14-19) * the Samarians

Most people these days are getting the revelation that this refers to the Second Coming of the Lord. Meanwhile, the Lord has been using the power gifts (1 Cor 12) to confirm the truth of the gospel.

Hebrews 6:1-2 "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms (plural), of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

baptizo -- to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk) -- to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe -- to overwhelm “Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration or through rites of Christian initiation. Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come into increasing prominence.” … From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_with_the_Holy_Spirit When the Holy Spirit comes UPON you, it’s like He envelopes, surrounds, overwhelms you (see baptizo above). It’s like you are immersed in the Holy Spirit. It's like He comes all over you. Here are 2 passages describing it: “… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. … you shall receive (spiritual) power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:5,8) “… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning. Then I remember the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ … God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 11:15-17) This “gift” of Holy Spirit baptism is not salvation … it is this special baptism (an anointing) after salvation. The above is much different than when one is born-again at the moment of salvation … when the Holy Spirit ENTERS you and remains INSIDE you: “And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth … you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17) The Holy Spirit is INSIDE born-again Christians ... John 14:17, Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16. I pray that you receive this as spiritual Truth, in Jesus' mighty name! ... for He desires that more of His children would be open to receiving this baptism.

I've taken this mostly from the OP. It is a technicality ... to confront Christians who insist that "Jesus was the Word", etc. IMO, the Word (Logos) was/is the Second Person of the Trinity. The Word (Logos) was sent by Father God, and He became flesh (Jesus). John 1:14 At this point in time, this ONE born of Mary began being CALLED "Jesus" and "the Son of God", as per the instructions of Gabriel. Matthew 1:21, Luke 1:31-35 When Jesus walked the earth, the "fully God" part of Him was NOT Jesus, it was the Word (Logos) ... because it was the Word (Logos) who became Jesus in da foist place. The "fully man, fully God" entity-combo was CALLED "Jesus" and "the Son of God". I just don't see an eternal Jesus coming down to earth and becoming flesh (Jesus). No, the Word (Logos) came down and became flesh (Jesus). I see "Jesus" and "the Son of God" as being only names/titles. But, after the Word (Logos) was given these 2 additional names, it was kosher to say they were equivalent to Him, i.e. they meant the same as Him ... on earth and then later in Heaven (including now). After Jesus' birth, as far as names/titles go ... the Word (Logos) = Jesus = the Son of God

And the Word clothed in a corruptible body was given the name Jesus. Hear ye! Hear ye! ... we have uncovered a grievous error ... The Word (Logos) was originally clothed in Heaven with an incorruptible body. After He came to earth, He became flesh (clothed in a corruptible body). He returned to Heaven IN BODILY FORM (Luke 24:51) ... but with what kind of body? The Word (Logos) now lives again in Heaven with what kind of body (corruptible or incorruptible)? .

The Word (Logos) was originally clothed in Heaven with an incorruptible body. After He came to earth, He became flesh (clothed in a corruptible body). After this body died, He returned to Heaven in His incorruptible body. The Word (Logos) now lives again in Heaven in His incorruptible body. I posted this because it reminded me of Paul's language re: the 2 types of bodies.