SoGrateful

Eleanor and Gary, I know the Scriptures, I believe the Scriptures, I say Jesus is the Son of God, etc. But, I'm asking ... How can a "Son" be formed, made, created ... begotten? One of the creeds says that Christ is the Son of God "begotten, not created"; and it adds "begotten by his Father before all worlds." Will you please get it quite clear that this has nothing to do with the fact that when Christ was born on earth as a man, that man was the son of a virgin? We are not now thinking about the Virgin Birth. We're thinking about something that happened before Nature was created at all, before time began. "Before all worlds" Christ is begotten, not created. What does it mean? We don't use the words begetting or begotten much in modern English, but everyone still knows what they mean. To beget is to become the father of: to create is to make. And the difference is just this. When you beget, you beget something of the same kind as yourself. A man begets human babies, a beaver begets little beavers, and a bird begets eggs which turn into little birds. But when you make, you make something of a different kind from yourself. A bird makes a nest, a beaver builds a dam, a man makes a wireless set. . . . Now that's the first thing to get clear. What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God; just as what man makes is not man. C. S. Lewis, Beyond Personality: The Christian Idea of God (New York, 1945), pp. 4-5.

The word "person" refers to all rational beings. Could you present some solid proof of that?

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Genesis 1:26(a) I have always heard that your blue means ... created with body, soul (mind, will, emotions), and spirit.

To me, the word “persons” can only refer to human beings! The sexual explanation Since all spirit beings are sexless … they cannot actually be masculine "persons", but they must be neuter "it"s. So, I look on the Triune Godhead as being 3 "Manifestations" of God. And I look on angels and demons as neuter "it"s, and not masculine spirits. The reason for the 3 “Persons” God knows how difficult it would be for us to have a personal relationship with an "It". So, the Triune God decided to portray "Themselves" as three "Persons" ... just for us ... just so we could relate to Them. This is just one more demonstration of God’s great love for us. The First Member ... Father God The Second member ... the Son of God The Third Member ... the Holy Spirit (The Spirit is the humble Work-horse of the Godhead, and does not desire any praise.) Specifically about “the Son of God” If He was not made sexually, and if He was not created by God, how did He come into being? Answer: He always was, He always existed (John 1:1). But, how could anything that always existed ... be some kind of “Son”? The "Son of God" is a name-title-term … a term of endearment used throughout the OT. Gabriel told Mary to call the Baby: Jesus, the Son of the Highest, and the Son of God. Gabriel never said that He was these things … He was just to be given these names. It’s all about you and God Would you feel comfortable trying to have a personal relationship with an "It"? The NT says you must have a “knowing” relationship with Jesus to be a sheep-elect: John 10:7-28, John 17:3, with the Holy Spirit dwelling and leading (Romans 8:14, 2 Timothy 2:19).

Muslims (and others) think Christians are crazy for believing Jesus is God's Son! They know for sure God did not mate with some female entity to produce any offspring. Christians know for sure that God did not create any Son of God. “He was clothed with a robe dripped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.” (Rev. 19:13). “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him …” (John 1:1-3). Because of their religious teaching, the Jews of the NT believed: Messiah = Christ = Son of God. “We have found the Messiah (which is translated the Christ)” (John 1:41). “Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63). “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” (Mark 14:61). “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16). Did the Jews actually believe that God somehow created His “equal”, a Son of God? The answer is “No”, and is explained in (B) below. First, let’s consider Gabriel He appeared to Joseph in a dream … "... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21) And he was also sent to Mary … "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest … that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:31-35). Please note that Gabriel did NOT say the baby to be born was the Son of God. The baby was just to be called Jesus, the Son of the Highest, and the Son of God. Robert is not really (a) Robert … he is a male human being called Robert. God has given us actual names for the Word (the Logos) so we can relate to the Second “Person” of the Triune Godhead. (A) From the Catholic Encyclopedia … “The word ‘son’ was employed among the Semites to signify not only filiation, but other close connection or intimate relationship ...”. (B) From the Jewish Encyclopedia … “Yet the term (Son of God) by no means carries the idea of physical descent from, and essential unity with, God the Father. The Hebrew idiom conveys nothing further than a simple expression of godlikeness.” Four usages in the OT for the term “Son of God”, and none of them mean co-equality with God: (1) -- The angels are the sons of God. The old story in Gen 6:2, says that the sons of God saw the daughters of men and were fatally attracted to them. Job 1:6, tells of the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. It was a regular title for the angels. (2) -- The nation of Israel is the son of God. God called his son out of Egypt (Hosea 11:1). In Exodus 4:22, God says of the nation, "Israel is my first-born son". (3) -- The king of the nation is the son of God. In 2 Sam 7:14, God’s promise to the king is, "I will be his father, and he shall be my son." (4) -- In the later books, which were written between the Testaments, the good man is the son of God. In Sirach 4:10, the promise to the man who is kind to the fatherless is: "So shalt thou be a son of the Most High, and he shall love thee more than thy mother doth.” In all these cases above the term "son" describes someone who is specially near and close to God. Daily Study Bible (Mark 3:7-12) “When we meet this title in the simplicity of the gospel story we are not to think in terms of philosophy or theology or of the doctrine of the Trinity; we are to think of it as expressing the fact that Jesus' relationship to God was so close that no other word could describe it ...” “Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased” (Mark 1:11). This is an expression of exceptional love and immense compassion enjoyed by the most holy ones of God alone. Since Jesus was "fully man", could Father God regard this "Son" as being an equal member of the Trinity? “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God” (Romans 8:14).

Brother, you have been given some serious false teaching re: the above. 1 Cor. 13:10 means that when Jesus (who is perfect) returns, there will be no more need of these things, but until that time the 9 spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12) are to be used. These gifts are to be used in conjunction with the gospel as a testimony to the validity of the gospel. These gifts have been used all over the world to reach the lost. Who has been giving these powerful gifts, which help lead people to the Lord? Satan? If you desire the truth, I invite you to search this out for yourself ... in the following 14 verses. Please notice in the chart how the baptism with the Holy Spirit is connected with such things as: the Spirit coming "upon" the person, speaking in tongues, miracles, etc. (In the many Bible verses concerning salvation, the Holy Spirit comes "in" the person. I especially point you to John 14:17, and Paul gives many as well.) 1 Luke 24:49 ------ 8 Acts 8:14-19 2 Acts 1:4-8 ------ 9 Acts 9:17-18 3 Acts 2:1-4 ----- 10 Romans 15:19 4 Acts 2:33-39 --- 11 Acts 10:44-48 5 Acts 4:8-16 ---- 12 Acts 11:15-17 6 Acts 4:31 ------ 13 Acts 14:3 7 Acts 5:12-16 ----14 Acts 19:5-6 ------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 the Promise --------Y-Y---Y------------------------- baptism with HS ------Y-------------Y--------Y-----Y the gift -----------------Y---------------Y--Y------ upon ---------------Y Y Y---------Y-------Y--Y-----Y laying on of hands ---------------Y-Y-----------Y--Y filled with HS ---------Y---Y-Y-----Y--------------- received HS ----------------------Y-------Y--------- speaking tongues -------Y-----------------Y--------Y power --------------Y-Y-----------Y----Y------------ boldness -------------------Y-Y-----------------Y--- miracles -------------------Y---Y---Y--Y--------Y---

Well, so much for your "one baptism" ... thanks anyway ... Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God, the doctrine of baptisms (plural), laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And now you should read Post #10. .

Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God, the doctrine of baptisms (plural), laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. I believe there are at least 4 different baptisms ... Baptism into the church (salvation) --- the Holy Spirit is the baptiser This does NOT refer to a phony salvation, i.e. merely an intellectual belief or conversion of one’s thinking. But this refers to being “born again (from above)” with the Holy Spirit entering the person. “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church) … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13) The Holy Spirit takes up residence INSIDE the believer … John 14:16-23; Romans 8:11; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 4:6; 1 Timothy 1:14; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:12-16. Baptism in water (symbolic demonstration of faith) --- man is the baptiser Full-immersion baptism in water is symbolic, being the outward expression of inward faith. Any other type of water baptism is unscriptural and just dreamed up by man. “Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4) ”… buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12) Jesus died to self, went down under the earth, was resurrected with a new incorruptible body. We are to die to self, go down under the water, come up a new man ready to live a new life. Paul said, “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17). Scripture says we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9). Baptism with the Holy Spirit (mostly power for ministry) --- Jesus is the baptiser John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit … Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33. The baptism with the Holy Spirit comes after being born again (or at the same time). 7 verses say that for this baptism the Holy Spirit comes UPON the believer, for example: “… the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ” (Acts 11:15-16) “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? ... When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.” (Acts 19:2-6) Do people speak in tongues when they believe, or when they are baptized in water? Baptism with fire (extreme suffering for the gospel’s sake) --- Jesus is the baptiser John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with fire. “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16) Jesus asks His 12 disciples if they are able and willing to be martyrs after Him … “Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? … You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with …” (Matthew 20:22-23, Mark 10:38-39) All of the baptisms are glorious blessings, even the baptism with fire: “Blessed are those who are persected for rightousness sake” (Matthew 5:10).

I can think of 3 possible reasons: 1) God can bluff (but not lie), and these "encouragements" help us to stay on the straight and narrow Connected to the first ... 2) God has many rewards to be given out later 3) God has many different levels of thrones in Heaven to be filled

We are given actual names for the 2nd Person of the Godhead so we can relate to Him "... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21) Yes, this "Jesus" is the Giver of eternal life (John 4:14, 5:21, 6:27, 10:27-28, 11:25, 14:6, 17:2). "... (He) will be called the Son of the Highest" (Luke 1:32) "... that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35) "... His name is called the Word of God." (Revelation 19:13) From the beginning, before the world was created, Jesus was with Father God "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him ... He was in the world, and the world was made through Him ... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us ..." (John 1:1-14) "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." (John 17:5) "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life ... that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us" (1 John 1:1-2) Also before the world was created, God's elect were chosen "... He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world ..." (Ephesians 1:4) "... God from the beginning chose you for salvation ..." (2 Thessalonians 2:13) "... who has saved us and called us with a holy calling ... according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began ..." (2 Timothy 1:9) And at some point, Father God gives the elect to Jesus ... "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44) Also see John 6:37, 6:39, 6:45, 6:65, 10:29, 17:2, 17:24, Matthew 15:13. A plural God created everything "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ... Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" (Genesis 1:1, 26) Was there a "Royal We of Majesty" during Moses' time, which led God or Moses to use this terminology? If so, the King would have been referring to himself, his family, his court, etc. But, what does this have to do with God? ... Why would He use such a majestic plurality? Who would a totally montheistic God be referring to? ... He and His angels? Ridiculous. Therefore, Genesis 1:26 must be referring to a plural God. Father God created "all things" through Jesus (i.e. it was Jesus who actually did the creating) "... God who created all things through Jesus Christ ..." (Ephesians 3:9) "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3) "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him ..." (John 1:10) "His Son ... through whom also He (Father God) made the worlds" (Hebrews 1:2) "... one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things" (1 Corinthians 8:6) "For by Him (Jesus Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth ... All things were created through Him and for Him." (Colossians 1:16) "But to the Son He (Father God) says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ... ... Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You ... ... You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain ...' " (Hebrews 1:8-11) "(You Jews) killed the Author (beginning, originator, source) of life" (Acts 3:15) Jesus is the Sustainer of "all things" now (present tense) "And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist (are held together)." (Colossians 1:17) "... upholding (sustaining) all things by the word of His power" (Hebrews 1:3) Beyond all of the above ... There are approximately 20 verses where Jesus (and others) said that He is equal to Father God. And Jesus warned, "If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24). There is no "He" after "I AM" in any of the Greek manuscripts. Some of the translations must have it in there for readability. Jesus was claiming to be the "I AM" (God's name "forever") of Exodus 3:14-15. Other verses (no "He" in the Greek after "I AM") are John 8:28, 8:58, 13:19, 18:6, 18:8, 4:26. Non-Trinitarians refuse to believe the 70+ verses which point to the fact that Jesus is God. Truly, they might just as well throw their Bibles in the trash can and ride off into the sunset, and continue to hope that their future in eternity will be a pleasant one.

The Holy Spirit came INSIDE of us when we were born again, right? Jesus promised, “the Spirit of truth … will be in you.” (John 14:17) "... His Spirit who dwells in you" (Romans 8:11) "... the Spirit of God dwells in you" (1 Corinthians 3:16) "... the Holy Spirit who dwells in us." (2 Timothy 1:14) "And by this we know that He abides in us ..." (1 John 3:24) There are also verses that speak of the Holy Spirit coming UPON some of God's specially-anointed ones, which were given special tasks to perform: David ... 1 Samuel 16:13 Elisha ... 2 Kings 2:9 Zechariah ... 2 Chronicles 24:20 Isaiah ... Isaiah 59:21 Ezekiel ... Ezekiel 11:5 Messiah ... Isaiah 11:2, 60:1-2, Matthew 12:18 Mary ... Luke 1:35 Jesus ... Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, Luke 4:18, John 1:32-34 Then later, there were more instances when the Spirit came UPON people: “Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49) “… wait for the Promise of the Father … … you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. … you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:4-8) “When the Day of Pentecost had fully come … there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” (Acts 2:1-4) How many people do you know who speak in tongues when being re-filled with the Spirit? “… when they (Peter & John) had come down, (they) prayed for them (Samarians) that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 8:15-17) Prior to this, they had received some other type of baptism. “… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those (Gentiles) who heard the word … the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they (Peter's group) heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.” (Acts 10:44-46) How many people do you know who speak in tongues? “… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (Gentiles), as upon us (Jews) at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ … ... God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 11:15-17) Quite possibly, their spirit baptism came at the same time as they were born again, which has occured all over the world. “… they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …” (Acts 19:5-6) Do you believe that this is born-again process? The Holy Spirit comes UPON the person, he/she speaks in tongues, and then the Holy Spirit moves INSIDE the person to remain there "forever" (John 14:16)? No, normally, the person is first born again with the Holy Spirit entering INSIDE, and then at a later date, the Holy Spirit comes UPON the person with a special anointing. One of God's greatest evangelists, Smith Wigglesworth, said (and I'm paraphrasing): "If you don't have the baptism with the Holy Spirit, you are living in a weak and impoverished condition." Wigglesworth was used by God all over the world to perform all kinds of healing miracles, including raising the dead. Note: It's just like the Lord to choose a man with a name such as Smith's to dumbfound the world.

This is very interesting. Yes, I believe it was partially a result of Jesus keeping it a secret. However, the believers in Acts had the Holy Spirit teaching them all things. So, WHY were they NOT informed of this by the Spirit of Truth? Here's why ... The main focus during the time of Acts was evangelising the lost. And the Trinity was/is NOT part of the basic gospel message. Just like Moses was NOT burdened with this information (he had his hands full already), so were the apostles NOT given this information. It is enough for the Holy Spirit to enlighten people re: the basic gospel without also having to simulutaneously convince people of the Trinity. Incredibly difficult job.

Oneaccords, You are asking me to prove this statement ... This verse is recognized by almost everyone to be an addition by some over-zealous monk or scribe Just Google 1 John 5:7 and read about its' reputation.

Dearest Faithful One from Lakeside ... This verse is recognized by almost everyone to be an addition by some over-zealous monk or scribe, so I wouldn't use it for any kind of proof of anything.

Jesus took Adam's place, but did it the right way, the perfect way. Both were created as sinless human beings, but Jesus was the One to succeed in remaining sinless. So, dearest Faithful One from Lakeside, your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to answer ... WHY did Jesus also need to be "fully God" (or did He really need to be)?

I think you're getting the picture that ... in these Internet forums ... often you have to repeat what you're really getting at ... over and over again. I've even encountered some people who have obviously only read the thread title before going off on their rant ...

Yes, I think "secret" is a bit over-board. Also, John says His miracles proved His divinity.

What do you think about these? Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” Acts 7:59 “And they stoned Stephen as he was calling upon God and saying, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ ” Acts 3:15 “(You Jews) killed the Author (beginning, originator, source) of life” Acts 8:37 “And he answered and said, ‘I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.’ ”

This will clear up any confusion concerning the arrival of the Holy Spirit: “But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.” (John 7:39) “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.” (John 15:26). “But now I go away to Him (Father God) who sent Me … It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you …“ (John 16:5-7). “… when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth …” (John 16:13).

my error, sorry

Some people exclaim … -- How can they say the Trinity is one God in 3 “Persons”? -- The Holy Spirit sure doesn’t sound like a “Person” to me. -- Of the 3, the Holy Spirit is the least likely to be a “Person”. The Holy Spirit has the attributes of a person has wisdom,knowledge,understanding Isaiah 11:2 has a mind ----------------------- Romans 8:27; Acts 15:28 has a will ----------------------- 1 Corinthians 12:11 has joy -------------------------- 1 Thessalonians 1:6 bears witness -------------------- Romans 8:16; 1 John 5:6 comforts ------------------------- Acts 9:31; John 14:16,14;26,15:26,16:7 (KJV) commissions ---------------------- Acts 20:28 declares ------------------------- John 16:14 devises plans -------------------- Isaiah 30:1 distributes ---------------------- 1 Corinthians 12:11 fellowships ---------------------- Philippians 2:1; 2 Corinthians 13:14 forbids -------------------------- Acts 16:6-7 guides --------------------------- John 16:13 hears ---------------------------- John 16:13 helps ---------------------------- Romans 8:26; John 14:16,14;26,15:26,16:7 (NKJV) intercedes ----------------------- Romans 8:26-27 justifies (declares righteous) --- 1 Corinthians 6:11 knows things --------------------- 1 Corinthians 2:11 leads ---------------------------- Romans 8:14 loves ---------------------------- Romans 15:30; Galatians 5:22 reveals things ------------------- Luke 2:26, Ephesians 3:5 sends ---------------------------- Acts 13:4 sets people apart (separates) ---- 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2 speaks --------------------------- John 16:13; Acts 8:29,10:19,13:2; Rev 2:7,2:17 teaches -------------------------- 1 Corinthians 2:13 testifies ------------------------ John 15:26; Acts 20:23 warns ---------------------------- Acts 20:23 can be lied to ------------------- Acts 5:3-4 can be tested -------------------- Acts 5:9 can be insulted ------------------ Hebrews 10:29 can be grieved (saddened) -------- Isaiah 63:10, Ephesians 4:30 can be quenched (hindered) ------- 1 Thessalonians 5:19 My very own personal contribution to "Ripley's Believe it or not" is the incredible fact that some church leaders have been deceived into believing that the Holy Spirit is only "a force". Witness the former Moderator (for 8 years?) of the large (Protestant) United Church of Canada.

Jesus kept His Divinity secret … “His brothers therefore said to Him, ‘Depart from here and go into Judea, that Your disciples also may see the works that You are doing. For no one does anything in secret while he himself seeks to be known openly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.’ For even His brothers did not believe in Him.” -- John 7:3-5 1) – by always speaking in parables “But without a parable He did not speak to them (the multitudes). And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.” -- Mark 4:34 “To you (disciples) it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that ‘Seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’ ” -- Luke 8:10 2) – by insisting that it NOT be told to others He instructed demons to NOT say who He really was -- Mark 1:23-25, 1:34, 3:11-12 He healed people, but told them NOT to tell anyone --- Matt 8:1-4, Mark 1:40-44, Luke 5:12-15 He told his disciples, but said NOT to tell anyone ------- Matt 16:20, Mark 8:29-30, Luke 9:20-22 3) – by NOT speaking of it to the multitudes Anyone teaching this “up front” to the unsaved will usually be called a crazy person. Even today, some “Christians” see the Bible verses, but somehow don’t believe them! 4) – exceptions: a few people knew about His claims Jesus claiming Deity was clear enough to the Jewish leaders, causing them to want to kill Him. He told His disciples that He and the Holy Spirit were Deity, but it was way over their heads. The reason He told them these things is given in the Comments below. Reasons WHY Jesus kept His Divinity secret … #1 – His humilty prevented Him from declaring Himself openly ”… Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery (*) to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.” -- Philippians 2:6-8 (*) He did not wish to cling to, use, take advantage of … His equality with God. Famous examples of Jesus' humility: He was the son of a lowly carpenter, and He made His triumphant entry into Jerusalem riding on a lowly donkey. #2 – Large crowds could hinder His ministry at times “And when Jesus saw great multitudes about Him, He gave a command to depart to the other side (of the lake).” -- Matthew 8:18 “Immediately Jesus made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, while He sent the multitudes away.” -- Matthew 14:22 #3 – The Holy Spirit was NOT available to reveal spiritual Truth The Holy Spirit was NOT given to believers until after Jesus ascended to heaven (John 14:16-26). Some of Jesus’ disciples would NOT listen to His claims without condemning Him: “And He said, ‘Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by my Father.’ From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.” -- John 6:65-66 Back then, as today, people simply cannot comprehend a dual-God (or triple-God) concept. If non-believers regard the simple gospel as “foolishness” (1 Corinthians 1:18), any mention of God walking around on the earth will be regarded as even more ridiculous. Comments 1) -- “The Spirit if the Lord is upon Me because he has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor” -- Luke 4:18 Notice that Jesus did NOT say He was anointed to get anyone saved … because the Holy Spirit was NOT yet present to convict anyone of spiritual Truth. 2) -- Jesus told His disciples about who He was privately … so that later (when they were born again) the Holy Spirit could bring it to their remembrance, and they would make sure that His words were recorded for posterity. 3) -- There are only 2 causes for people to believe that Jesus Christ was/is God – being born into this religious doctrine via family, society, etc. (i.e. blind faith) – being given this revelation by God Himself via the Holy Spirit

“And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth … you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. … If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We (all 3?) will come to him and make Our home with him. … But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.” (John 14:16-26). The Greek word here for "another" is "allos" meaning "another of the same kind" (ref: Vine). So, the Holy Spirit is another Person of the Trinity (like God the Son). It seems to say that all 3 Persons of the Triune God will come to be with the faithful believer. But only the Holy Spirit will remain in him/her forever. And only the Holy Spirit will be the One doing the teaching. Interesting, what? And unbelieveable, but true nonetheless ... Muslims believe that this Helper-Comforter-Paraclete refers to none other than Mohammed. And they couldn't care less that he wasn't successful in getting inside the believers forever.

I like this particular verse standing alone on its' two little feetsies (or footsies?) ... because it agrees with other verses which say baptism is not mandatory.

I highly recommend that you go into the nearest empty room (e.g. bathroom), and speak in a low or medium voice something like this: "I plead the precious blood of Jesus Christ all over my body, soul, and spirit inside and out ... in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God." Satan and his demons hate to hear about Jesus' blood. So, the more you talk this way, the more success you will have. Also, the demons will know that you mean business. And you have to mean business ... speak to them with the spiritual power which you possess as a born-again daughter of God. Good Luck ... and God bless you, sister. Jesus Loves You!