Ephesians__6_24

To better clarify your question, How would you define gnostic? - what are you specifically asking me? "Other [Gnostic sects] adamantly deny that the supreme being came in the flesh, claiming Jesus to be merely a human who attained divinity through gnosis and taught his disciples to do the same." - Wikipedia URL - maybe this is why you ask me if I am gnostic... - (to clear it up... God was manifest in the flesh: 1 Timothy 3:16 - so the supreme being did come in the flesh... it is also explained in 1 Timothy 3:16 that "...great is the mystery of godliness...") (considering the post): Every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the (resurrected) flesh? - Is this passage (1 John 4:3) speaking about the resurrected flesh or the earthy flesh (1 Timothy 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:44b)? [In this post I am asking if 1 John 4:3 is talking about Jesus coming in the resurrected (spiritual body) flesh or in the (natural body) flesh... (as Jesus is God manifest "in the flesh", and 1 Corinthians 15:44 states that there is a natural and spiritual body, and Christ resurrected had "flesh and bones" Luke 24:39)] - could 1 John 4:3 be speaking about both... (I always took 1 John 4:3 as speaking about the natural flesh... which is why I asked the question in this post: To better clarify my question: Here is the answer to my questions: Jesus had flesh and bones in his spiritual resurrected body... he was not a spirit... (Luke 24:39, 1 Corinthians 15:44b) Jesus was manifest in flesh (earth) and had flesh and bones... (1 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 5:7, Hebrews 10:5, Galatians 4:4, Romans 5:14) Every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the natural and spiritual flesh is not of God... because He did come in both.

To better clarify your question, How would you define gnostic? - what are you specifically asking me? "Other [Gnostic sects] adamantly deny that the supreme being came in the flesh, claiming Jesus to be merely a human who attained divinity through gnosis and taught his disciples to do the same." - Wikipedia URL - maybe this is why you ask me if I am gnostic... - (to clear it up... God was manifest in the flesh: 1 Timothy 3:16 - so the supreme being did come in the flesh... it is also explained in 1 Timothy 3:16 that "...great is the mystery of godliness...") (considering the post): Every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the (resurrected) flesh? - Is this passage (1 John 4:3) speaking about the resurrected flesh or the earthy flesh (1 Timothy 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:44b)? [In this post I am asking if 1 John 4:3 is talking about Jesus coming in the resurrected (spiritual body) flesh or in the (natural body) flesh... (as Jesus is God manifest "in the flesh", and 1 Corinthians 15:44 states that there is a natural and spiritual body, and Christ resurrected had "flesh and bones" Luke 24:39)] - could 1 John 4:3 be speaking about both... (I always took 1 John 4:3 as speaking about the natural flesh... which is why I asked the question in this post: To better clarify my question:

Christ has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than the angels... Hmmm.... What is that "name" that is more excellent than the angels? Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. Philippians 2 describes that "name" that is more excellent than the angels... Philippians 2 6[Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Verse 10 indicates "things in heaven" should bow at the name of Jesus...

On "Figures" of Christ John 5:39 Scriptures testify of Christ. Luke 24 beginning at Moses and all the prophets, [Christ] expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Adam is the figure of Christ... Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. "figure" G5179 τύπος tupos Thayer Definition: 1) the mark of a stroke or blow, print 2) a figure formed by a blow or impression 2a) of a figure or image 2b) of the image of the gods 3) form 3a) the teaching which embodies the sum and substance of religion and represents it to the mind, manner of writing, the contents and form of a letter 4) an example 4a) in the technical sense, the pattern in conformity to which a thing must be made 4b) in an ethical sense, a dissuasive example, a pattern of warning 4b1) of ruinous events which serve as admonitions or warnings to others 4c) an example to be imitated 4c1) of men worthy of imitation 4d) in a doctrinal sense 4d1) of a type, i.e. a person or thing prefiguring a future (Messianic) person or thing Jonah was a figure of Christ... Christ says: Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Luke 11:30 ...as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

We have a earthly body that is made up of flesh and bones. It was God who made our fleshly bodies from the dust of the ground. Because man fell in the garden death was passed down to all of mankind from that time forward. Our earthly bodies will return to dust. Christ also had a fleshly body that was also subject to death and the grave. But Christ conquered death, hell and the grave. Christ was resurrected as the grave could not hold him. He was sown in a natural body but he was raised a spiritual body which is made up of flesh and bones as well. Our spiritual bodies will be the same just as Jesus was raised from the dead or the grave we also will have a spiritual body. Their is a difference between a earthly flesh and bone body and a spiritual flesh and bone body. That difference is that the spiritual body will never continually grow old like the earthly body. The spiritual body will never be subject to death, disease, sorrow, pain nor crying. Our spiritual flesh and bone bodies will live forever not subject to the woes of this life. The saints will have the same resurrected body as Jesus did. Our bodies will also be glorified with Christ. ***KEY......Jesus was "NOT" a "SPIRIT". Jesus was raised a Spiritual "Body" with "flesh" and "bones". A spirit "doesn't" have flesh and bones. However a body "does" have flesh and bones. I believe in the "bodily" resurrection of Christ. Jesus was raised with a "spiritual body" with "flesh and bones". ______________________________________________________________________________ Another question... But saints will be equal unto the angels... Luke 20:36 Luke 20:35-36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. - God makes his angels spirits...(Psalm 104:4) a spirit "hath not flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39) so if the resurrected saints are equal unto the angels...(angels being spirits) then wouldn't this make the resurrected saints unequal to the angels (in that: saints will have spiritual bodies... but angels are spirits and therefore "hath not flesh and bones")? - Or do Angels have spiritual bodies? (Psalm 104:4 says that God makes his angels spirits...) - 1 Corinthians 15:40 - "There are also celestial bodies" - Could this be referring to Angels? (Angels having celestial bodies) (or would 1 Corinthians 15:40 be talking about the resurrection "celestial body" of the saints)? (Hm, that "So also" could be significant...) (To clarify the line of thought: If the "celestial bodies" in verse 40 ^ is referring to the saints' body and not the angels... then that would be a no to angels (whom God makes "spirits" - Psalm 104:4) having "flesh and bones" (as a spirit does not have "flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39)) ) (...I wonder if the following answers my question): - Or could it be that Jesus was saying that the Angels are the children of God... and in the same way, the resurrected saints will be equal to the angels in that regard...(and so, resurrected saints being equal unto the angels is not relating to the resurrected body, but to the "children of God" aspect)

Every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the (resurrected) flesh? - Is this passage (1 John 4:3) speaking about the resurrected flesh or the earthy flesh (1 Timothy 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:44b)?

This post has been copied and pasted from my previous post on the in the Eschatology room... _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Jacob And Christ [Hosea 12:4 indicates that this "man" was an "angel".] Now... The Angel did not prevail against Jacob... is this possible? Ecclesiastes 6:10 That which hath been is named already, and it is known that it is man: neither may he [The Man?] contend with him that is mightier than he. Angels are "...greater in power and might..." (2 Peter 2:11) Could Jacob be a figure of Christ? Christ: Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Yet... Christ was "made a little lower than the angels" Hebrews 2:9 [1 Timothy 3:16 - "...great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."] Why did the Angel name Jacob "Israel" ? --- "for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28 Christ: "...a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Christ is the "mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5) - Christ prevailed: Colossians 2:15 "having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." (Matthew 27:62-65; 28:6, 1 Corinthians 15:3-8 - Christ "spoiled principalities and powers... He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.") More on Jacob and Christ (specifically the wife of Jacob and the wife of Christ the Church...) Hosea 12 12And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep. [Hebrews 13:20 - Jesus is "...that great shepherd of the sheep"] - Jacob fled from Esau into "the country of Syria" ... and served for a wife... (which is where your quote [the quote of "wordsower" that is found below] fits in) - Jacob fleeing from Esau to get the Jews first (Leah) but then The Church (Rachel)... - Would Jacob fleeing from Esau be a figure of Christ and men? (John 1:1-3; 10-13) - How that "the world was made by [Christ], and the world knew him not" (John 1:10) - However... Jacob kept sheep for a wife (he kept sheep first...) - Did Christ keep sheep first then get his wife? _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ The quote that I quoted in the original Post was the following: Also, Another figure... - The Jews took on the name of Jacob (Israel - Israelites) - Christians take on the name of Christ (Acts 11:26, 1 Peter 4:16), Who is the firstborn among many brethren (Romans 8:29). Now... Is there any siginificance of: "[The Angel] touched the hollow of [Jacob's] thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him." - Genesis 32:25 ? Could this be a figure of Christ's side being pierced (John 19:34)?

More on Jacob... Jacob And Christ [Hosea 12:4 indicates that this "man" was an "angel".] Now... The Angel did not prevail against Jacob... is this possible? Ecclesiastes 6:10 That which hath been is named already, and it is known that it is man: neither may he [The Man?] contend with him that is mightier than he. Angels are "...greater in power and might..." (2 Peter 2:11) Could Jacob be a figure of Christ? Christ: Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Yet... Christ was "made a little lower than the angels" Hebrews 2:9 [1 Timothy 3:16 - "...great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."] Why did the Angel name Jacob "Israel" ? --- "for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28 Christ: "...a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Christ is the "mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5) - Christ prevailed: Colossians 2:15 "having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." (Matthew 27:62-65; 28:6, 1 Corinthians 15:3-8 - Christ "spoiled principalities and powers... He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.") More on Jacob and Christ (specifically the wife of Jacob and the wife of Christ the Church...) Hosea 12 12And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep. [Hebrews 13:20 - Jesus is "...that great shepherd of the sheep"] - Jacob fled from Esau into "the country of Syria" ... and served for a wife... (which is where your quote fits in) - Jacob fleeing from Esau to get the Jews first (Leah) but then Christ (Rachel)... - Would Jacob fleeing from Esau be a figure of Christ and men? (John 1:1-3; 10-13) - How that "the world was made by [Christ], and the world knew him not" (John 1:10)

We have similar questions... How would you answer your questions? Given that: 1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. and 1 Corinthians 7 34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. "this I speak for your own profit" if she dies childless, and women will be saved in childbearing... then it wouldn't be profitable for the woman to be a virgin... So how would you explain 1 Timothy 2:15 and 1 Corinthians 7:35? - Could it be that if women choose to childbear, then they will be saved in it... "if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." 1 Timothy 2:15 - (another question... could "faith and charity and holiness with sobriety" be relating to how she raises her children?) (based on this view) a difference I see here between the man and the woman is: If a man (to him it was: "cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread" Genesis 3:17-19) chooses to stop working... then he will be cast "into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 25:30 If a woman (to her it was: "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children" Genesis 3:16) chooses not to childbear (1 Corinthians 7:34-35)... then there is no punishment... (Some observations... not saying this view is invalid) And your next question: How would you answer this question, given that: 1 Corinthians 15:22 "in Christ shall all be made alive." (Christ being a man) How would you explain that 'all' (including women) shall be made alive in Christ (being a man)? Does the following explain... (Woman being of (the figure of) Christ... and shall be made alive "in Christ" (1 Corinthians 15:22)) (keeping her female resurrection body (of Christ) just as she has a female earthy body (of Christ)) ?

To better understand... - Was woman made after or before the disobedience? - Was Adam "the son of God" (Luke 3:38) before or after the disobedience? ____________(1 Samuel 2:12 indicates that there can be "sons of Belial", which would make them not the "sons of God"...) - Does "being led by the Spirit of God" make one a son of God (Romans 8:14)? - God gives the Holy Spirit to whom (Acts 5:32)? Now, Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. - The Spirit remains on Christ (John 1:33), - "...the Father hath not left [Christ] alone; for [Christ] [does] always those things that please [The Father]." John 8:29 - "God hath given [the Holy Ghost] to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32) The first Adam is a figure of Christ (Romans 5:14), being made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26), being led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14), being the Son of God (Luke 3:38)... - Now, I will ask again "was woman made after or before the disobedience?" The answer is before... Woman is of the First Adam (figure of Christ). Seeing as Woman is of Adam (the figure of Christ) would this explain Galatians 3:26-29 how that male and female are one in Christ... 1 Corinthians 15:38 explains it well: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed [God's] own body. God gives the seed a body as it has pleased him... and to every seed his own body... If you have ever planted something... say for example you plant a tomato plant... you don't plant the tomato plant (body) in the ground... you plant the seed... and afterwards comes the "body" seed=natural body=spiritual "that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." (1 Corinthians 15:46) (1 Corinthians 15:44 - It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.) every seed... 1 Corinthians 15:38 states that God giveth the seed a body as it has pleased him... so... God gives the women's natural (earthy) body a resurrection body as it has pleased him. How about yes or no responses to make it simple? I like direct answers. Your question about: 1 Corinthians 15:38 God gives the women's natural earthy body a resurrection body as it has pleased him. - It doesn't specify what kind of body that God raises women in in this verse ^ ... it says (in this verse) that God will give women a resurrection body as it has pleased him though. - What kind of body is my question though.. will it be a distinct female body. - (Or is this a question that can be answered...) - Some questions need to be answered first though: a) - Are we resurrected with bodies that are like the angels? or different? - Along the same line... God hasn't subjected to Angels the world to come...(but to Christ) (Hebrews 2:5) - Saints will judge angels... 1 Corinthians 6:3 - (therefore, are we resurrected superior to angels, but still similar to them?) - Christ says: "[they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead] are equal unto the angels" (Luke 20:36) b) - Are there male and female angels? - "sons of God" is masculine (Job 38:7) and is indicating "angels" - Ashtoreth and Diana are goddesses (1 Kings 11:5, Acts 19:35) - The Hebrew word that is translated into the english word "Ashtoreth" is feminine... - The Greek word that is translated into the english word "Diana" is feminine... - We would then have to figure out if Diana and Ashtoreth are angels... Deuteronomy 32:16-17 indicates that "strange gods" are "devils"; Are Ashtoreth and Diana "strange gods" ? is a "strange god" an Idol? 1 Chronicles 16:26 indicates: "all the gods of the people are idols" (so, yes, idols are gods) - Were the female evil angels created female good angels (Genesis 2:1), or were they transformed when satan's tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth (Revelation 12:4)? - Or did the angels take on a "form" of female... (as nebula has suggested): If we are resurrected with bodies that are like the angels... and if there are male and female angels, then that would answer a yes to women will be raised in a distinct female body.

I would like to see scripture about female angels outside of the vision in Zech 5. Visions are not reality. They have meanings that relate to reality, but they are not reality in and of themselves. Acts 19:27 - Diana 1 Kings 11:5 - Ashtoreth Jeremiah 7:18 - "the queen of heaven" Malachi 2:11 - "the daughter of a strange god" Diana is a false goddess, not an angel. Ashtoreth is also a false goddess, not an angel. The "queen of heaven" is another false god and not an angel. Malachi 2:11 also talks of a false god, not an angel. False gods or goddesses are not angels. They are false deities. Angels are real entities. There is a vast difference between the two. - "Ashtoreth" - Hebrew: "עשׁתּרת" - BDB definition: Transliterated: "`Ashtoreth" Ashtoreth = star 1. the principal female deity of the Phoenicians worshipped in war and fertility a. also 'Ishtar' of Assyria and 'Astarte' by the Greeks and Romans It is a "proper name feminine" - Strong's definition: Ashtoreth the Phoenician Goddess of love (and increase): - Ashtoreth. - "goddess" - Hebrew: "אלהים" - BDB definition: Transliterated: "'elohiym" 1. (plural) a. rulers, judges b. divine ones c. angels d. gods 2. (plural intensive - singular meaning) a. god, Goddess b. godlike one c. works or special possessions of God d. the (true) God e. God - Acts 19:27 indicates "...the great goddess Diana..." - A female angel (goddess). - "Diana" - Greek: "Ἄρτεμις" - Thayer Definition: Transliterated: "Artemis" Diana = complete light: flow restrained Origin: probably from the same as "Artemon" - a top-sail or foresail of a ship. "Artemis" is a feminine noun. - Strong's definition: Artemis the name of a Grecian Goddess borrowed by the Asiatics for one of their deities: - Diana. - "goddess" - Greek: "θεά" - Thayer definition: Transliterated: "thea" a Goddess "thea" is a feminine noun. 1 Corinthians 10:20 indicates that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God" 1 Corinthians 10:19 says: "is that which is offered in sacrifice to idols any thing? " - Are devils and idols used as synonyms in 1 Corinthians 10:19-20? ________________________________________________________________________ Deuteronomy 4:19 Indicates that the sun, the moon and the stars are the host of heaven. 1 Kings 22:19 states: "I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left." ________________________________________________________________________ - Is "the host of heaven" indicating angels standing by the LORD? 1 Kings 22:19-21 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. - Psalm 104:4 indicates that The LORD makes His angels spirits. _________________________________________________________________________ Job 31 26If I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness; 27And my heart hath been secretly enticed, or my mouth hath kissed my hand: 28This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above. - Would this passage be indicating Idolatry? "my heart hath been secretly enticed" when "I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness" ___________________________________________________________________ Revelation 12 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. -- Is this referring to satan? Daniel 8:10 it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. -- Is this referring to satan? -- Satan "wast perfect in [his] ways from the day that [he] wast created, till iniquity was found in [him]." (Ezekiel 28:15)... -- ...Then did his tail draw a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth (to be worshipped)? his tail drawing the third part of the stars of heaven, and casting them to the earth - Hence: "the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth." Acts 19:27 Ashtoreth - 1 Kings 11:5 - Why does it end talking about celestial and terrestrial bodies with starting with: "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars" ? _____________________________________________________________________ Michael is the "archangel" (Jude 1:9) Michael is also "one of the chief princes" (Daniel 10:13) ("one star differeth from another star in glory.") Matthew 25:41 indicates that the devil has angels. Psalm 78:49 indicates that there are "evil angels". Isaiah 14:13 For [Lucifer] hast said in [his] heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ...(verse 15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. ...one star differeth from another star in glory... (could "one star differeth from another star in glory" relate to Lucifer... - does Lucifer have glory...) - Isaiah 14:15 indicates no glory for Lucifer... "brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit" __________________________________________________________ Exodus 32 1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 2And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. 3And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD. 6And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. 7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: 8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 32 15But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Would you say that Deuteronomy 32:17 is referring to Exodus 32:8? If it is so; - Do you see how it says "devils" in Deuteronomy 32:17, but it says "gods" in Exodus 32:8? After all this, do you agree that they were not angels? I can't tell what your point is. Ashtoreth and Diana are goddesses=female angels.

are we raised a spiritual body? 1 Corinthians 15:44 indicates that "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body." - So, we are "sown" a natural body... but we are raised a spiritual body... - How would this explain Luke 24:39? Luke 24:39 - "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." - Is this the resurrected body of the saints? How could Christ have flesh and bones ("...as ye see me have [flesh and bones]") ?

New question: are we raised a spiritual body? 1 Corinthians 15:44 indicates that "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body." - How would this explain Luke 24:39? 1 Corinthians 15:44 - "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Luke 24:39 - "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." - Is this the resurrected body of the saints? How could Christ have flesh and bones ("...as ye see me have [flesh and bones]") ? ---- I started a post on this same subject.... click to be directed.

To better understand... - Was woman made after or before the disobedience? - Was Adam "the son of God" (Luke 3:38) before or after the disobedience? ____________(1 Samuel 2:12 indicates that there can be "sons of Belial", which would make them not the "sons of God"...) - Does "being led by the Spirit of God" make one a son of God (Romans 8:14)? - God gives the Holy Spirit to whom (Acts 5:32)? Now, Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. - The Spirit remains on Christ (John 1:33), - "...the Father hath not left [Christ] alone; for [Christ] [does] always those things that please [The Father]." John 8:29 - "God hath given [the Holy Ghost] to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32) The first Adam is a figure of Christ (Romans 5:14), being made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26), being led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14), being the Son of God (Luke 3:38)... - Now, I will ask again "was woman made after or before the disobedience?" The answer is before... Woman is of the First Adam (figure of Christ). Seeing as Woman is of Adam (the figure of Christ) would this explain Galatians 3:26-29 how that male and female are one in Christ... 1 Corinthians 15:38 explains it well: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed [God's] own body. God gives the seed a body as it has pleased him... and to every seed his own body... If you have ever planted something... say for example you plant a tomato plant... you don't plant the tomato plant (body) in the ground... you plant the seed... and afterwards comes the "body" seed=natural body=spiritual "that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." (1 Corinthians 15:46) (1 Corinthians 15:44 - It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.) every seed... 1 Corinthians 15:38 states that God giveth the seed a body as it has pleased him... so... God gives the women's natural (earthy) body a resurrection body as it has pleased him.

I would like to see scripture about female angels outside of the vision in Zech 5. Visions are not reality. They have meanings that relate to reality, but they are not reality in and of themselves. Acts 19:27 - Diana 1 Kings 11:5 - Ashtoreth Jeremiah 7:18 - "the queen of heaven" Malachi 2:11 - "the daughter of a strange god" Diana is a false goddess, not an angel. Ashtoreth is also a false goddess, not an angel. The "queen of heaven" is another false god and not an angel. Malachi 2:11 also talks of a false god, not an angel. False gods or goddesses are not angels. They are false deities. Angels are real entities. There is a vast difference between the two. - "Ashtoreth" - Hebrew: "עשׁתּרת" - BDB definition: Transliterated: "`Ashtoreth" Ashtoreth = star 1. the principal female deity of the Phoenicians worshipped in war and fertility a. also 'Ishtar' of Assyria and 'Astarte' by the Greeks and Romans It is a "proper name feminine" - Strong's definition: Ashtoreth the Phoenician Goddess of love (and increase): - Ashtoreth. - "goddess" - Hebrew: "אלהים" - BDB definition: Transliterated: "'elohiym" 1. (plural) a. rulers, judges b. divine ones c. angels d. gods 2. (plural intensive - singular meaning) a. god, Goddess b. godlike one c. works or special possessions of God d. the (true) God e. God - Acts 19:27 indicates "...the great goddess Diana..." - A female angel (goddess). - "Diana" - Greek: "Ἄρτεμις" - Thayer Definition: Transliterated: "Artemis" Diana = complete light: flow restrained Origin: probably from the same as "Artemon" - a top-sail or foresail of a ship. "Artemis" is a feminine noun. - Strong's definition: Artemis the name of a Grecian Goddess borrowed by the Asiatics for one of their deities: - Diana. - "goddess" - Greek: "θεά" - Thayer definition: Transliterated: "thea" a Goddess "thea" is a feminine noun. 1 Corinthians 10:20 indicates that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God" 1 Corinthians 10:19 says: "is that which is offered in sacrifice to idols any thing? " - Are devils and idols used as synonyms in 1 Corinthians 10:19-20? ________________________________________________________________________ Deuteronomy 4:19 Indicates that the sun, the moon and the stars are the host of heaven. 1 Kings 22:19 states: "I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left." ________________________________________________________________________ - Is "the host of heaven" indicating angels standing by the LORD? 1 Kings 22:19-21 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. - Psalm 104:4 indicates that The LORD makes His angels spirits. _________________________________________________________________________ Job 31 26If I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness; 27And my heart hath been secretly enticed, or my mouth hath kissed my hand: 28This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above. - Would this passage be indicating Idolatry? "my heart hath been secretly enticed" when "I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness" ___________________________________________________________________ Revelation 12 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. -- Is this referring to satan? Daniel 8:10 it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. -- Is this referring to satan? -- Satan "wast perfect in [his] ways from the day that [he] wast created, till iniquity was found in [him]." (Ezekiel 28:15)... -- ...Then did his tail draw a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth (to be worshipped)? his tail drawing the third part of the stars of heaven, and casting them to the earth - Hence: "the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth." Acts 19:27 Ashtoreth - 1 Kings 11:5 - Why does it end talking about celestial and terrestrial bodies with starting with: "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars" ? _____________________________________________________________________ Michael is the "archangel" (Jude 1:9) Michael is also "one of the chief princes" (Daniel 10:13) ("one star differeth from another star in glory.") Matthew 25:41 indicates that the devil has angels. Psalm 78:49 indicates that there are "evil angels". Isaiah 14:13 For [Lucifer] hast said in [his] heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ...(verse 15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. ...one star differeth from another star in glory... (could "one star differeth from another star in glory" relate to Lucifer... - does Lucifer have glory...) - Isaiah 14:15 indicates no glory for Lucifer... "brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit" __________________________________________________________ Exodus 32 1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 2And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. 3And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD. 6And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. 7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: 8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 32 15But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Would you say that Deuteronomy 32:17 is referring to Exodus 32:8? If it is so; - Do you see how it says "devils" in Deuteronomy 32:17, but it says "gods" in Exodus 32:8?

I would like to see scripture about female angels outside of the vision in Zech 5. Visions are not reality. They have meanings that relate to reality, but they are not reality in and of themselves. Acts 19:27 - Diana 1 Kings 11:5 - Ashtoreth Jeremiah 7:18 - "the queen of heaven" Malachi 2:11 - "the daughter of a strange god"

In order to be saved you mean? No, when we are with Christ. Luke 20:34-36 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Jesus indicates that they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. - So, no we will not need to marry and have children. - Death will be destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:26 - And [they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead] cannot die anymore.

Trying to figure out how it says "in Christ" all shall be made alive... 1 Corinthians 15:22 And how that "[Christ] shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" Philippians 3:21 - Seeing that Christ was a man in the flesh... with what body do the women get resurrected in? - Or is this answer found in scripture... (Would 1 John 3:2 indicate this? 1 John 3:2 - "now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be") - I was trying to relate how that if there are female evil angels... and if they were created female good angels... then this would indicate that there is a distinction in angels between male and female. - A question then arises out of this... are we raised with bodies that are like the angels? or superior to them?

seeing as there are female evil angels... when did they become female? or were they always female? were they female when they were created? Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. (were the female evil angels created female? or did this happen when there was iniquity found in Satan? Ezekiel 28:12-19) Seeing as Angels don't die, and if the female evil angels were created female angels... Would this indicate that women are resurrected into female bodies? - Another question arises... are we raised with different bodies than the angels... - It does state that: Hebrews 2:5 unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. And... It does state that we will judge angels... 1 Corinthians 6:3

In order to be saved you mean?

- All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine... for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness... (2 Timothy 3:16) - Every single word... - Even the "Even as" in Jude 1:7. Jude 1 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. - Would you agree that "all" scripture is given by inspiration of God? Jude 1 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 'Even as' Sodom and Gomorrha... (relating the Angels which kept not their first estate to Sodom and Gomorrha, right? - would "even as" be relating the angels to Sodom and Gomorrha? is the "even as" given by inspiration of God?) ...and the cities about them in like manner... The cities about Sodom and Gomorrha did like manner as Sodom and Gomorrha... ...giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh... ...are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. The devil's angels will suffer eternal fire... Matthew 25:41 --- Would you say that what Jude 1:6-7 is saying is... that the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day... Matthew 25:41 states that that they (the angels) will suffer eternal fire... and then gives examples of the same Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them doing the same thing in going after strange flesh (flesh not of the same nature, form, class, kind, or that is different - Thayer) how they are set forth for an example... ...suffering the vengeance of eternal fire... "...the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire..." Genesis 19:24. The Gospel of Thomas... hmm... Well I did cover the topic you said about do "women need to become men in the resurrection in order to be saved?" above ^

Hm! Sarah Rachel and Rebecca... _________________________ I wonder if... Since woman is of the man.... (Genesis 2:22, 1 Corinthians 11) And Christ was a man... And "they [the woman the man] shall be one flesh." Genesis 2:24 And "In Christ" all shall be made alive... (1 Corinthians 15:22) - It would be the same for the resurrection? Hm! Genesis 2:24 is talking about the woman and the man in marriage... ("they shall be one flesh")... (Which could relate to women being saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Timothy 2:15)) - However, what about women who don't marry in this age (are they "saved" in childbearing?) (for example: Jephthah's daughter - "...she knew no man." Judges 11:30-40) - 1 Corinthians 7:34-35 speaks about virgins not marrying... "...this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction." - Therefore... (Would it matter if women were married or not...) ---- - Could the following be the answer to the question: Since woman is of the first Adam (Genesis 2:22, 1 Corinthians 11) (who is a figure of Christ - Romans 5:14)...being led by The Spirit of God (Romans 8:14) and The Son of God (Luke 3:38) made in God's likeness and image (Genesis 1:26). Could it therefore be the same in the resurrection (women being "of the first Adam" (Christ)--still being women?) (And is this what it means in Galatians 3:28 when it says: "there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." ?) - What could 1 Timothy 2:15 mean then? - women being saved "in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Hm! Sarah Rachel and Rebecca... _________________________ I wonder if... Since woman is of the man.... (Genesis 2:22, 1 Corinthians 11) And Christ was a man... And "they [the woman the man] shall be one flesh." Genesis 2:24 And "In Christ" all shall be made alive... (1 Corinthians 15:22) - It would be the same for the resurrection? Hm!

If the sons of God in Job are Hebrews how did they come to be with satan at the same time? True God is talking to Job yet we do read in Job 2:1-2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." If these sons of God were men then satan and men come into God's divine council together and I am not sure that happens. shalom, Mizz Right Mizz, that's what I am saying. They were men in Gen 6, not men in Job. Jude 1:6-8 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. How would you explain Jude 1:6-8? Specifically, how would you explain the "Even as" Greek: "ὡς" Transliterated: "Hos" - Thayer's definition: "as, like, even as, etc.", - Strong's definition: " Probably adverb of compound from G3739; which how that is in that manner (very variously used as shown): - about after (that) (according) as (it had been it were) as soon (as) even as (like) for how (greatly) like (as unto) since so (that) that to wit unto when ([-soever]) while X with all speed." Are Sodom and Gomorrha set forth for an example of what will happen to the angels and men...? (The judgment of the goats and the sheeps?) Matthew 25 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: - It includes angels into the everlasting fire in Matthew 25:41... - Jude 1:6-8 says that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them in like manner are set forth for an example (to men and angels?) - it does say "even as" Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them in like manner... ...going after strange flesh. - (which ,if the "Ben 'elohiym" are sons of God and not sons of men - would line up, because Angels "[taking] them wives of all which they chose" (Genesis 6:2) of the "daughters of men" (Genesis 6:2) would mean that they are going after "strange flesh" (Jude 1:6-7)... for "men" to take wives of daughters of men would not be going after strange flesh... - Also, let's say that the "sons of God" (Genesis 6:2) are actually Hebrew men... - where else in scripture does it refer to "sons of God"? there are prophecies in Psalm 2 (specifically verse 7) about Christ, not David, and another reference about Christ (2 Samuel 7:13-14) (not Solomon, Solomon's kingdom was not "for ever" - 2 Samuel 7:13). - It states that Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38), - It also states that "as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Romans 8:14 - It also states that "...Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26 - Therefore, could Adam have been the son of God since he was "led by the Spirit of God", but when man sinned, he lost that place as the son of God (Acts 5:32 - God gives the Holy Ghost to them that obey him)? - After all, a son is made after the likeness and image of his Father (Genesis 5:3). - (The Father is perfect Matthew 5:48, and Christ is perfect Acts 13:28). - (Which explains how that God made man in his own image and likeness Genesis 1:26 (the "first Adam" 1 Corinthians 15:45) ...who is "the figure of him that was to come" Romans 5:14, and how Christ is "the last Adam" 1 Corinthians 15:45 - upon whom the "the Spirit remains" John 1:33; and whom the Father never leaves alone, for Christ "does always those things that please [The Father]." John 8:29). - Would Angels being "...greater in power and might..." (2 Peter 2:11) explain Genesis 6:4? - Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. - The "sons of God" referenced to in Job 38:7 were present before the time referenced to in Genesis 6... the "sons of God" referenced to in Job 38:7 were present when the LORD "...laid the foundations of the earth" (Job 38:4). Which supports that the "sons of God referenced to in Genesis 6 are the Angels of God. - Christ says that Angels are the children of God (Luke 20:36) - a "son" of God is a child of God.

I fail to see how you are acquainting pagan deities with God's angels. 1 Corinthians 10:20 indicates that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God" 1 Corinthians 10:19 says: "is that which is offered in sacrifice to idols any thing? " Deuteronomy 4:19 Indicates that the sun, the moon and the stars are the host of heaven. 1 Kings 22:19 states: "I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left." Job 31 26If I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness; 27And my heart hath been secretly enticed, or my mouth hath kissed my hand: 28This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above. Revelation 12 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. -- Is this referring to satan? Daniel 8:10 it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. -- Is this referring to satan? -- Satan "wast perfect in [his] ways from the day that [he] wast created, till iniquity was found in [him]." (Ezekiel 28:15)... -- ...Then did his tail draw a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth (to be worshipped)? 1 Corinthians 15 40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. Michael is the "archangel" (Jude 1:9) Michael is also "one of the chief princes" (Daniel 10:13) ("one star differeth from another star in glory.") Matthew 25:41 indicates that the devil has angels. Psalm 78:49 indicates that there are "evil angels". Exodus 32 1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 2And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. 3And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD. 6And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. 7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: 8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Would you say that Deuteronomy 32:17 is referring to Exodus 32:8? Deuteronomy 32 15But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.