taylor30

This may seem like an odd question, however I have had doubts about my own salvation for years. When I do good, I feel like I am trying to earn salvation. When I do bad, I feel like I couldn't have done those things if I were saved. I have sincerely prayed for salvation literally hundreds of times, and still there is no change.

So my question is this

Is it possible to prove that you are saved, or is there something that a saved person does that a lost person woud never do? Please provide a scriptural answer.

In the Bible there is the story of Moses creating a serpent and when people looked at it they were healed. Now there is nothing that says they had to be really certain before they looked otherwise it would not work - no, however feeble their faith all they had to do was look. So if you believe that Jesus died for your sins then that is enough. But with salvation comes the need for repentance and sanctification, an in love struggling to lead a holy life not out of fear but out of love for the one who gave us himself

True. It is our accepting the gift of forgiveness that saves us. However though many will admit we are not saved by works, those same people will use works as a measure of whether they are saved or not. Scripture DOES say we are saved FOR good works, so my OP is based on this concept and question. IF a person claims to have sincerely asked for forgiveness and wants salvation and a relationship with God, BUT they do not give up their sinful lifestyles, is that person truly saved. Many will say NO, however that would be a form of works salvation. If salvation is TRULY BY FAITH ALONE, then it is possible for a saved person to live a life of sin. I believe this is what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 3 when he says a person will suffer loss as one through the fire, YET he is still saved.

I must disagree with your 2nd paragraph. If we TRULY hate our sins, se would NOT allow ourselves to commit them. Since no person lives without sin, we obviously ALL have sins we refuse to give up. Our sins are ALWAYS a choice and ALWAYS our fault

Taylor, you must understand that when we are saved we have two natures. One from Adam, and the new nature from God. These are in direct opposition of each other. You need to at least back up your statements with scripture. Here is what I am saying. It is the nature of sin. A born one does not practice sin. There is a possibility of sinning and still hating it. If you deny this I do not know what else to say as I only have scripture to stand on and not what I feel about a situation.

Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Rom 7:16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

Rom 7:17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

Yes I know that we have 2 natures. However did God not say that we are set free from the power of sin? Did he not say to NOT let sin reign in your body? If he gave such a command, obviously he expects us to keep it. If Jesus had said to YOU as he said to the woman caught in Adultery in John 8, "Go and sin no more", would you have said to him, "But LORD. I am only human and I have 2 natures". If you don't think that argument would fly with him, why would it work now?

Dear Taylor,

I feel your pain, mate. I really do. I feel it because I, too, have lived it for many, many years. One rejection after another: in business, in relationships, in churches, etc.

Like Walla, I lived most of my life alone, so I am well-acquainted with that and the heartache and frustrations it brings. So many of the simple things people around me take for granted are huge deals to me, because I have been denied them for so much of my life.

When I first turned to God, I believed he would provide the answers I sought. But, for whatever reasons, it didn't work out the way I had hoped and expected. I never seemed to fit in in the churches I visited and most of my Christian relationships seemed superficial at best.

I wish I could give you easy answers, three simple steps to fix these very REAL hurts and heartaches. I haven't got it all figured out. But please know you are NOT alone and I'm happy to be your friend.

Thank you for those words. God Bless You

Giddy is my possessed spellchecker. It was supposed to be God.

Hilarious!

Anyway, I don't think the concept of thing is as easy when you are in a cold house with a bare refrigerator. I think there is a REASON Paul never gave Christians a minimum amount. He knew thing in mien times is not realistic for everyone. Whether my neighbor is Christian or not is irrelevant. God chose to bless many people in scripture who were NOT of his people. Also there ARE pastors like Penny Hinn & Kenneth Copeland & Robert Tilton who DO teach poverty IS a sin because God wants his children rich and happy.

It wasn't up to Paul to change the amount. In lean times it is all the more important to tithe. We mustn't lean n our own understanding, but walk in faith and trust completely in God for everything we need. Tithing is that kind of situation is hard, but it reaps great rewards, spiritually.

You cannot expect an unbeliever to do what Christians do. Your neighbour can only do what her sensibilities dictate. We do what God desires , completely trusting Him.

God does want us to prosper in all ways. There is nothing wrong with money. It is the love of money that is a sin.

Once again:

2 Corinthians 9:8

And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others.

Well if what you say is true, why stop at a tithe. Why not give 100%? Jesus DID ask a young man to sell EVERYTHING and then follow him. So, why don't we simply take our paychecks down to the local church and give God 100%. No doubt according to you God will miraculously fill the fridge and pay all the bills. And what about poor countries all over Africa and Asia. I hope you are not suggesting they are poor because they don't tithe. There are no doubt Christians in the world who give far more than a tithe and yet they don't are STILL in poverty. It seems odd to me how you are so hung up on the church. According to you if I go give $100 to my neighbor soothe can not allow her family to starve, I am wrong. But if you drop that same $100 in the collection plate, then you are right. This makes no sense. That is suggesting that God is realistic and not much different than people who say God can only be worshipped church or that only their music is really Christian. Do you really think every Christian who ever gave to a need they saw WITHOUT using the church was still wrong and sinful?

By the way, I did NOT suggest poverty is a sin as Cobalt correctly stated to you. I was being slightly sarcastic based on your suggestion that she might be poor because she wasn't a Christian who tithe to a church.

I think you are still misunderstanding me. My MAIN point is that the tithe does NOT apply to Christians. I'm not saying we shouldn't, but if you say its REQUIRED, you place people under bondage. What should I tell my neighbor when she can barely afford to feed her kids? That Giddy is punishing her for not thing and her kids should go hungry so the local pastor can pay the bills in the church?

Perhaps you do not understand that the tithe applies to all who love God. I don't say it is required, but God does to those who are hearing Him.

As for your neighbour. Is she a born again Christian? You cannot teach a person to do something that you do not do yourself. As for her poverty, realize also that poverty is bondage. Then teach her about the widow's mite.

To teach someone that poverty is a punishment from God runs counter to who God is and it is a lie.

Who is Giddy?

Giddy is my possessed spellchecker. It was supposed to be God. Anyway, I don't think the concept of thing is as easy when you are in a cold house with a bare refrigerator. I think there is a REASON Paul never gave Christians a minimum amount. He knew thing in mien times is not realistic for everyone. Whether my neighbor is Christian or not is irrelevant. God chose to bless many people in scripture who were NOT of his people. Also there ARE pastors like Penny Hinn & Kenneth Copeland & Robert Tilton who DO teach poverty IS a sin because God wants his children rich and happy.

I'm afraid I don't understand your meaning. The NT never commands tithing to churches either, neither is it commanded at all. Only giving is commanded and it doesn't say you have to give to a church. So are you telling me that if I give to the poor and needy, BUT skip the middleman of the church, I am being disobedient? Give me 1 single scripture where I am commanded to give a tithe or offering to a church please.

Giving to the poor is something we are instructed to do, but tithing is to God. We give an offering, but we PAY a tithe. It is for the house of God, and for the administration of the work and is disbursed to the needs of others. The tithe is something that the Lord lays on the heart to do. There is no scripture that rescinds the tithe.

Well that is a bit of a stretch. Remember that Jesus said when we give to the least of these, we ARE giving to him. So I can certainly support the position that when I give to a poor person or needy person I see ( and maybe who God caused to cross my path so I could give to them ) then I AM giving to God.

It may be a stretch to some folk, but God and His precious promises are more than worth it. There are certain promises connected to the tithe, and not to merely giving or being generous with people. Giving is something we do over and above the tithe.

I think you are still misunderstanding me. My MAIN point is that the tithe does NOT apply to Christians. I'm not saying we shouldn't, but if you say its REQUIRED, you place people under bondage. What should I tell my neighbor when she can barely afford to feed her kids? That Giddy is punishing her for not thing and her kids should go hungry so the local pastor can pay the bills in the church?

I'm afraid I don't understand your meaning. The NT never commands tithing to churches either, neither is it commanded at all. Only giving is commanded and it doesn't say you have to give to a church. So are you telling me that if I give to the poor and needy, BUT skip the middleman of the church, I am being disobedient? Give me 1 single scripture where I am commanded to give a tithe or offering to a church please.

Giving to the poor is something we are instructed to do, but tithing is to God. We give an offering, but we PAY a tithe. It is for the house of God, and for the administration of the work and is disbursed to the needs of others. The tithe is something that the Lord lays on the heart to do. There is no scripture that rescinds the tithe.

Well that is a bit of a stretch. Remember that Jesus said when we give to the least of these, we ARE giving to him. So I can certainly support the position that when I give to a poor person or needy person I see ( and maybe who God caused to cross my path so I could give to them ) then I AM giving to God.

Wow. As if churches don't require finances to pay the heat and hydro and expenses to operate, as well as giving to the needy and missions. Why so jaded unless you have been trapped in a church that worships the dollar??

The only compelling force to bring us to tithe to God is Holy Spirit.

Well I assume that comment was meant for me so I will respond.

One of the more recent churches I went to, made 10 MILLION in tithes and offerings last year, HALF of which went to salaries. I asked for a little help, and they refused. If God can make loaves and fishes multiply a hundred fold and heal people and raise the dead, he can certainly make some extra dollar bills appear in collection plates without my help.

Wow.

2 Corinthians 9:6-12

6 Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” 8 And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. 9 As the Scriptures say,

“They share freely and give generously to the poor.

Their good deeds will be remembered forever.”

10 For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you.

11 Yes, you will be enriched in every way so that you can always be generous. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will thank God. 12 So two good things will result from this ministry of giving—the needs of the believers in Jerusalem will be met, and they will joyfully express their thanks to God.

I actually agree with those verses. But did you notice something the preachers DON'T mention when reading those? It only says to give to poor and needy. It DOESN'T say give to pastors or churches.

That's because giving is not tithing.

I'm afraid I don't understand your meaning. The NT never commands tithing to churches either, neither is it commanded at all. Only giving is commanded and it doesn't say you have to give to a church. So are you telling me that if I give to the poor and needy, BUT skip the middleman of the church, I am being disobedient? Give me 1 single scripture where I am commanded to give a tithe or offering to a church please.

Let's keep our attitude in check before we hit the Post button. Debate the topic, not the person.

Colossians 4:6

Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

Really? I don't have a right to be upset when people say Unkind things? Fine, I won't "rock the boat" anymore. I was just voicing my opinion as a hurt thrown to the curb Christian, but I will say NICE things for you. Can you recommend a site where the 1st amendment still exists, since I'm sure I will be banned soon for not being HAPPY enough for you.

Wow. As if churches don't require finances to pay the heat and hydro and expenses to operate, as well as giving to the needy and missions. Why so jaded unless you have been trapped in a church that worships the dollar??

The only compelling force to bring us to tithe to God is Holy Spirit.

Well I assume that comment was meant for me so I will respond.

One of the more recent churches I went to, made 10 MILLION in tithes and offerings last year, HALF of which went to salaries. I asked for a little help, and they refused. If God can make loaves and fishes multiply a hundred fold and heal people and raise the dead, he can certainly make some extra dollar bills appear in collection plates without my help.

Wow.

2 Corinthians 9:6-12

6 Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” 8 And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. 9 As the Scriptures say,

“They share freely and give generously to the poor.

Their good deeds will be remembered forever.”

10 For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you.

11 Yes, you will be enriched in every way so that you can always be generous. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will thank God. 12 So two good things will result from this ministry of giving—the needs of the believers in Jerusalem will be met, and they will joyfully express their thanks to God.

I actually agree with those verses. But did you notice something the preachers DON'T mention when reading those? It only says to give to poor and needy. It DOESN'T say give to pastors or churches.

99% of the people I have spoken to believe that they are saved. Not even 25% agree with each other upon how one is saved. Galatians 5 says heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said many are called but few chosen. Paul told timothy that if a man removes all heresy from himself he is a vessel unto honor. I ask the same question Taylor30 does, what will become of the one who doesn't fight temptation?

Gary

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved.

I think saying a Christian "chooses to live in sin" is too strong. I do not believe for one second that a born again believer will choose to live in sin. What can happen is a believer may be over come by sin or temptation. He may wallow in sin for a season, but he does not choose to live in sin. There are factors in his life that will hinder this. He has a new nature from God that is completely dedicated to God. It desires nothing but to do God's will. It was created in righteousness and holiness.

Rom 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

Eph 4:24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

A believer will never be content to just stay in sin. The comforter(Holy Spirit) will press him to turn. He will not allow the believer to comfortably live in sin. Then the discipline of God. He will correct as needed. A believer will either come to his senses, or God will do it for him. This can result in him allowing satan to destroy the flesh with sickness, or even God may take this person home in physical death.

1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

The major issue to me is, a believer in his zeal tries to "appease" God through his good efforts. He has not come to the realization that he has peace with God through Christ. He still views God as some outside task master who weighs his good with his bad and has him under some kind of brutal mandate where he can be dropped if he is not living up to snuff. He is basically placing himself under the law and not seeing himself as alive to God (apart from his works). This only incites the flesh to do even more evil and now he is caught in a vicious cycle of a defiled conscious, and ignorance on how to live right. He must recon himself alive to God through Jesus Christ. Apart from law, apart from works, apart from any effort on his part. Through that freedom of conscious he can now begin to grow and truly serve God. It is the hardest thing in the world to get the conscious settled that God is at peace with you, God is with you now. You do not have to appease him as the pagans do with their false gods. He see's you in Christ, you are free from the slavery of a works based salvation (if you do good, you live, do bad, you die). You can now serve God, not for life, but because you have life and are a member of his family.

i must disagree. If we ARE set free from sin at conversion because of the power of Christ, and scripture says we are NEVER given more than we can take, then ALL sins a christian commits are by choice. We are set free, so we CHOOSE to sin. We can no longer blame satan or anything but ourselves.

You are right Taylor, but there are times when a man can be overtaken by Temptation. Not through any fault of God, because as you said, he provides the way of escape, unfortunately we do not always utilize his way of escape. There are times when we are tempted by things that our inner man (our true self) absolutely abhors, but we succumb to it and fall flat on our faces.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If by choose, you mean we do not always utilize God's strength and provisions, then I can agree that we are choosing, but if you mean a born one chooses a lifestyle of sin, as if he enjoys it, I have to say that is foreign to scripture. Through ignorance of the delivering power of God a believer can fall into sin but I guarantee he hates it, and cries out with Paul "Oh wretched man that I am". His nature will not let him "choose" sin. The heaviness of temptation makes it feel like sin still has power when it really doesn't.

1Jn 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I must disagree with your 2nd paragraph. If we TRULY hate our sins, se would NOT allow ourselves to commit them. Since no person lives without sin, we obviously ALL have sins we refuse to give up. Our sins are ALWAYS a choice and ALWAYS our fault.

forgive me for being blunt, but if you have kids you are not even close to being alone. Try going to an EMPTY house with no one there to meet you.

Sorry, Taylor, but this just sounds a bit on the whiny side.

I'm 50 years old and I come home to an empty house each day from work. I've never been married. I don't even have a pet because frankly if I can't afford to care for an animal properly I would rather not have one. I'm in enough debt that unless something changes I will probably never get out from under it all. Yeah, that means I've basically got no "future," and will probably die broke as far as the world sees it. I don't like it, but I've got some peace about it because I know the Lord has a plan -- and that its not all about me.

Jesus is for eternity.

Go to Jesus . . . He's not going to be surprised when we whine, complain, rant and rave. Read through Psalms - there's lots of honest human emotion in there and God is not surprised by any of it. I doubt very much He's shocked, either, since He knows us better than we know ourselves anyway. Waiting really stinks sometimes, but we don't have the option of running ahead of the Lord. Do what you can as far as seeking a wife while praying and leave the rest to Jesus. If you go out on your own and do things your own way, you'll be headed for nothing but disaster.

What, you want a medal? Some people are able to handle being alone. Some are not. DON'T PASS JUDGEMENT ON THOSE WHO MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO THINGS AS EASILY AS YOU.

Wow. As if churches don't require finances to pay the heat and hydro and expenses to operate, as well as giving to the needy and missions. Why so jaded unless you have been trapped in a church that worships the dollar??

The only compelling force to bring us to tithe to God is Holy Spirit.

Well I assume that comment was meant for me so I will respond.

One of the more recent churches I went to, made 10 MILLION in tithes and offerings last year, HALF of which went to salaries. I asked for a little help, and they refused. If God can make loaves and fishes multiply a hundred fold and heal people and raise the dead, he can certainly make some extra dollar bills appear in collection plates without my help.

Taylor,

I was right were you are just a few short months ago. I was so lonely and to a point of desperation. I was so tired of being alone. I have two small kids and yet felt alone and was so discouraged because all I felt was that I had failed miserablly because I wasn't married and in a home with a yard and a dog and all was perfect. Then I started seeking God. Really seeking Him. He revealed to me that I was complete and that at this time in my life a relationship would only add to a plate that was already full. He (God) wanted all my attention I could give to Him so that I could grow and become a strong Christian woman. This singleness is a gift. Once I marry I will have even less time to get to know my Creator.

What feels like isolation right now to you may actually be God trying to get your complete attention right now.

I was also without a church home for quite some time. I attended several area churches and none fit. Until I walked into one I had been in five years earlier for a food basket. I knew when I walked back in I was home. This church is 40 miles from my home in another state.

Don't give up hope and don't let what you don't have keep you from hearing what God has in mind for you. One thing that kept resonatting in me was to "be still and know I am God" that played over and over in my head for months. finally I listened.

I am still single and probably will be for quite awhile. But I am happy, joyful and content. I know that I have all I NEED. That did not happen till I gave EVERYTHING over to HIM. I pray you find your path that God has in mind for you and that you find contentment in your heart.

Jennifer

forgive me for being blunt, but if you have kids you are not even close to being alone. Try going to an EMPTY house with no one there to meet you.

We are not called to be sponges, expecting people to be what we want them to be. People hurt us----even other believers, sometimes. But we are called to love others and to be what God calls us to be. We are called to be outward-focused, to see a need and fill it. If we are doing those things, we will be recompensed with people of integrity and value and lovingkindness in our lives. God will see to it.

So, no more complaining, but obey God, get back into the Lord's house, roll up the sleeves and get down to the business of serving Him by serving others.

See what El Roi, the God Who Sees, will do.

no more complaining huh? OK, i will tell other people that too. When I see broken or suicidal people, I will tell them STOP COMPLAINING.

I don't mean this to sound luke a poor me type of thing, but I do have some things I need to say.

Why are people so unloving? I have been alone for 10 years now. I am only 30. I am supposed to be happy with a good job, loving family, and Christian Brothers around. I have NONE of it. I have tried more dates than I can count. I used to go to church, but people were more interested in mingling with friends than welcoming a stranger into fellowship. I can sit in a pew alone or stand in the back of the church the entire time without a single word being spoken to me. I obviously have stopped going to church. I am better off without that " type " of Christianity. I also have dated Christian women who ONLY cared about looks or money. The heart didn't matter. Even pastors didn't give me the time of day when I sought their help. They were always too busy to help a brother, or my problems were not important enough for their schedule.

I don't expect unbelievers to show love and compassion, but such things should never be among those who call themselves Christians. We are called to step out of our comfort zones to others. REMEMBER, Jesus didn't just sit down and wait for people to show up. He went out and sought the people wherever they might be. We need to change church. We are to be a light to the world, but I am looking and I see no lights.

First I want to start with the notion of what is "supposed" to be happening at your age. None of that comes without a lot of work, sweat, tears, and sacrifice.

Loneliness is such a bummer. It can zap you right into depression faster than anything. However, we don't have to take it sitting down!

It's hard for people to trust others nowadays.....can you blame them? It takes time AND effort to be a friend, which means there is also a cost for people to come near. The scriptures say that we should show ourselves to be friendly if we want friends. Since I don't know you, there are some questions I need to ask before I could help you.

Like:

What are you doing to cultivate friendship with people who don't know you? How much time are you willing to give them?

Do you ever volunteer to help others in need?

Are you a good listener?

How much time did you stick around at the churches you mention? How much did you commit to that community?

Do you ever discuss your loneliness with people who aren't already close to you? That will drive people away rather quickly, btw, because no one wants to hang out with Debbie Downer, ya know?

Without knowing the answers to these questions, we're all guessing in the dark. But one thing I've learned in life is that when you start helping others who can't pay you back....you will find life is rewarding and full of purpose. Friends will just "happen" then.

I suggest that you find a place where you can serve. You'll find friends then and there.

.

i actually did do some volunteer work. The concept of TRUE friendship no longer exists.

I don't mean this to sound luke a poor me type of thing, but I do have some things I need to say.

Why are people so unloving? I have been alone for 10 years now. I am only 30. I am supposed to be happy with a good job, loving family, and Christian Brothers around. I have NONE of it. I have tried more dates than I can count. I used to go to church, but people were more interested in mingling with friends than welcoming a stranger into fellowship. I can sit in a pew alone or stand in the back of the church the entire time without a single word being spoken to me. I obviously have stopped going to church. I am better off without that " type " of Christianity. I also have dated Christian women who ONLY cared about looks or money. The heart didn't matter. Even pastors didn't give me the time of day when I sought their help. They were always too busy to help a brother, or my problems were not important enough for their schedule.

I don't expect unbelievers to show love and compassion, but such things should never be among those who call themselves Christians. We are called to step out of our comfort zones to others. REMEMBER, Jesus didn't just sit down and wait for people to show up. He went out and sought the people wherever they might be. We need to change church. We are to be a light to the world, but I am looking and I see no lights.

Personally I think we need to change our own attitudes first its through us that His light shines. Remember also people are flesh and blood and will be prone to messing up sometimes often in fact, the body of believers are neither perfect or what we often think they should be. The word and idea of 'christianity' gets a rap these days for all kinds of things, often times I think we look for the negative instead of the positive simply because of bad press. I mean we get all kinds of people calling for some type of perfection and thats just not going to happen until He comes and changes us. We also can choose to sit in the pew or put ourselves out there within that body instead of complaining no one likes us or wants to be our friends, if after putting yourself out there and nothing happens find another body that does show His love and Spirit.

I also echo Nebula's post sometimes we seem to think we need something and push ourselves to find that perfect mate or friend when its not our timing that is important but His. Prayer is always the best way to go, talk to Him give Him your concerns, your problems and needs as well as wants and then trust Him, thats what faith is all about trusting that He knows better than we do.

shalom,

Mizz

well I don't recall scripture saying, TAYLOR you need to go put yourself out there. i thought it was ALL christian's jobs to reach out. Well i guess that lets me off the hook if I see someone else hurting and alone, since arrording to you its THEIR job to reach out, not my job to reach in.

I appreciate your loneliness, Taylor. I myself am no stranger to loneliness.

I can only encourage you with this - press into the Lord for fellowship. Yeah, I know it is not the same as physical companionship - I've cried the same thing over an over again. But if somehow through your isolation you can draw nearer to the Lord, you will find something precious that most Christians never know. But spending time with the Lord means shutting off all media (unless soft instrumental or worship music helps you focus), concentrating on Him, talking to Him and waiting for Him to respond - thoughts, images, impressions, feelings.

I hope you can try this.

And as for dating - the best thing to do is wait. Seek the Lord for a wife, and don't pursue companionship with any females without affirmation from the Lord. I'm not saying don't be friends. But as far as "dating", its' best to lay it aside. It may be that either you or her or both are not ready for each other. This is what happened to me - and I've had to wait a lot longer than you have to finally begin a relationship (and even no we are separated by distance and other issues preventing us from moving forward, but we have both learned to trust God's timing by now).

This is the best I can offer; I hope it helps somewhat.

I have tried. growing close to god doesn't make my empty house any friendlier. And as for waiting for a wife, do you know how many people are Old and alone because they just waited? Is God going to put a woman on my doorstep and introduce me?

It is true that Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law. HOWEVER if that were 100% true, we would still be offering animal sacrifices and going to a high priest and to a temple. Obviously there some laws that WERE done away with.

Hi Taylor,

Jesus fulfilled all the law and prophets.

Matthew 5:17

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

There is no more a need to sacrifice animals for He was the final sacrifice for all.

Truth be told: Matthew 22:37-40 "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

That's kind of been my point. So why do so many christian keep saying we need to obey all the laws?

There is no such thing as a Goth in the Bible. There is no such thing as a Christian Goth. Yes there may be Christians who dress as goths, arguably no problem, but Goth has no relevance to Christianity.

Really? Then there must be all kinds of Christian "followed-by-a-label" that there are no such things as. Exactly what kind of box does a person have to fit into, in your narrow understanding, to be a Christian? Because every single one of us does something in our lives that is not pleasing to God. We could probably agree that there really is no such thing as a Christian who is a rampant adulterer, homosexual, rapists or child molester, but not Christian because of the way someone dresses? Really? Really? That's like saying there is no such thing as a Christian Cowboy or a Christian Mennonite or a Christian Indian. Goth is just a form of dress and liking different literature and music than someone else. And before you tell me the liturature and music is dark and bad, you could say the same thing about almost any form of music. What you are pushing is legalism.

I couldn't have put it better myself. AMEN

Sevenseas Makes a valid Point.......

If tithing is preached as a doctrine, or law, It would seem to me as a way to put others in bondage, and extort money from people using fear.

I think tithing should be taught, and scriptures given for the blessings, then Let God deal with whoever on the Word about tithing.

If we don't teach tithing and giving, then all giving is done out of obligation and not faith and Joy. I want to know why I am giving, what am I suppose to believe for in a harvest. There is a reaping part also that has to be obeyed, we should cover more than just giving and God somehow blesses you.

The blessings came from grabbing the sickle, working the field, putting your hands to something. God said he gave us power to get wealth, not drops bags of money out of the sky. We have to do something different in our life if we want different results.

Jesus said 100 fold return for someone that has given everything for the gospel sake (Mark 10) For me personally, working a 8.00 hr Job, I would not have the faith to believe 100 fold could come in that way, though God could. I would need something reasonable to put my faith on, like the markets, or home business. Something God could bless the works of my hands with in giving.

We all seek the areas that we need help in, and for me, it was being broke.

Be blessed.

But if pastors don't FORCE people to give them money, how will they afford their mansions and sports cars?

LOL well the record was just broken by someone posting in a ten year old thread. So you have your work cut out for you .

If that's a challenge.....

99% of the people I have spoken to believe that they are saved. Not even 25% agree with each other upon how one is saved. Galatians 5 says heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said many are called but few chosen. Paul told timothy that if a man removes all heresy from himself he is a vessel unto honor. I ask the same question Taylor30 does, what will become of the one who doesn't fight temptation?

Gary

I spend a lot of time wondering about that. Since works CANNOT earn or keep salvation, you CANNOT use works as a fair measurement. And works can be manufactured. Even unbelievers perform wonderful works sometimes. It is also true that we don't lose our free will at conversion. Therefore I believe we MUST consider the possibility that a Christian CAN choose to live in sin. Since scripture claims we are saved ONLY by faith and accepting the gift of salvation, it is quite confusing that a person who sincerely asks for forgiveness and then lives in sin COULD be saved.

I think saying a Christian "chooses to live in sin" is too strong. I do not believe for one second that a born again believer will choose to live in sin. What can happen is a believer may be over come by sin or temptation. He may wallow in sin for a season, but he does not choose to live in sin. There are factors in his life that will hinder this. He has a new nature from God that is completely dedicated to God. It desires nothing but to do God's will. It was created in righteousness and holiness.

Rom 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

Eph 4:24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

A believer will never be content to just stay in sin. The comforter(Holy Spirit) will press him to turn. He will not allow the believer to comfortably live in sin. Then the discipline of God. He will correct as needed. A believer will either come to his senses, or God will do it for him. This can result in him allowing satan to destroy the flesh with sickness, or even God may take this person home in physical death.

1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

The major issue to me is, a believer in his zeal tries to "appease" God through his good efforts. He has not come to the realization that he has peace with God through Christ. He still views God as some outside task master who weighs his good with his bad and has him under some kind of brutal mandate where he can be dropped if he is not living up to snuff. He is basically placing himself under the law and not seeing himself as alive to God (apart from his works). This only incites the flesh to do even more evil and now he is caught in a vicious cycle of a defiled conscious, and ignorance on how to live right. He must recon himself alive to God through Jesus Christ. Apart from law, apart from works, apart from any effort on his part. Through that freedom of conscious he can now begin to grow and truly serve God. It is the hardest thing in the world to get the conscious settled that God is at peace with you, God is with you now. You do not have to appease him as the pagans do with their false gods. He see's you in Christ, you are free from the slavery of a works based salvation (if you do good, you live, do bad, you die). You can now serve God, not for life, but because you have life and are a member of his family.

i must disagree. If we ARE set free from sin at conversion because of the power of Christ, and scripture says we are NEVER given more than we can take, then ALL sins a christian commits are by choice. We are set free, so we CHOOSE to sin. We can no longer blame satan or anything but ourselves.

This may seem like an odd question, however I have had doubts about my own salvation for years. When I do good, I feel like I am trying to earn salvation. When I do bad, I feel like I couldn't have done those things if I were saved. I have sincerely prayed for salvation literally hundreds of times, and still there is no change.

So my question is this

Is it possible to prove that you are saved, or is there something that a saved person does that a lost person woud never do? Please provide a scriptural answer.

I haven't ever met one who is born again who didn't love the Word of God, receive it as authoritative for his life and want to learn more of it.

The unregenerate don't hunger for the Word of God as a babe hungers for milk.

I agree with that, however what about people who hunger for the word of God but ALSO don't fight against temptation like they should?

The first thing I would check is my obedience in fundamental matters.

Disobedience is a block to growth, and robs us of our assurance of salvation.

Then I would pray fervantly for a change of heart that makes me want to give up my sin, which won't happen over night, but it will happen.

When that happens, you will be able to come into obedience, and everything will change.

Forgive me but are you suggesting I doubt salvation because I am living in sin?

Does anyone here know why God decided to create human beings? And why did He place Adam and Eve in a garden where Evil was already present? Was it because the future of mankind was already pre-destined and they needed to learn right from wrong?

God created Human beings to love them. He created his creation to express his love to them.

God DIDN'T create Adam and Eve in a garden where evil was present. When God finished his creation he called it VERY good. Evil began with Satan in heaven AFTER Adam and Eve were already in the garden.

Mankind was not destined to fail and NEED to learn right from wrong. But God DID know they would fail when he created them.

That shows God's AMAZING love. he chose to create us knowing full well exactly what we would do.