A Rogue Spook

There are many analytical studies I have done to conclude a pre-trib resurrection and rapture as part of my belief system. But here is one I believe everyone can study to see if they get the same conclusion without necessarily writing a book here on the subject. Here is your topic of study to come to your conclusion. Study what the book of Revelations says about the 24 elders. You will have to read through Revelation because they are mentioned in several chapters. I like to use the JKV of the Bible gateway online, because it allows me to copy and paste the verses to a word document for comparison. Here is what you need to pay attention to in this study: 1. How does Revelation identify who these elders are, can you conclude they are men, and what verse reveals this? 2. Does Revelation reveal if these elders have been rewarded in anyway? 3. Do the elders demonstrate the ability to do physical activities and what are those activities? 4. Once you have an answer to these questions, then answer for yourself these questions. When does John first mention the elders and at what capacity? What does CHRIST do that initiates the beginning of the tribulation? Where are the elders when this event happens? My conclusions are from the question above: 1. The elders themselves reveal they are redeemed men. 2. John sees them with crowns on their heads. 3. The elders on several occasions bow down and cast their crowns before the throne. They also sing and play instruments, they also wear clothes. 4. Revelation 4 verse 4. Revelation 6 verse 1. My belief is the elders are resurrected redeemed men. They have their new physical bodies, able to wear clothing and do physical task, such and sing, wear crowns, bow down and cast their crowns before the throne. They have been rewarded, as they already have their crowns. All this can be verified with the study of scripture. The elders are present in the throne room of heaven before CHRIST opens the first seal beginning the tribulation period. So, with this I believe Revelation indicates the resurrection and rapture as described in Thessalonians and Corinthians happens somewhere between the end of Revelation chapter 3 and the beginning of the 6th chapter when CHRIST opens the 1st seal initiating the tribulation period.

Hello I am new again here. I was on this board a few years ago. I am not sure what user name I was using because I was on several differ forums with different names, but I wasn’t banned or anything. I had to travel for work the last few years and I am now settled in one location for awhile and have found some time to try to participate in a prophecy forum once again. I have found many interesting studies over the years concerning Matthew 24, and I believe this chapter of Matthew has some of the most misinterpreted conclusion in the study of prophecy. On this topic I believe there are only two conclusions in an analytical study of what is actually being said. First we must establish context. In verse 22 CHRIST says, “ And except those days should be shortened”. What days are CHRIST referring to? In the context of what is being read we must conclude HE is referring to the days of the period of time HE was just describing in verses 15-21 of Matthew 24. This time period to be shortened begins during the period after the A.O.D. has taken place. Most believe this is the second 3 ½ half year period of the tribulation. Each 3 ½ year period of time are also described in Revelation as 42 months, or 1260 days. Matthew 24 JKV 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. I also believe most all prophetic scripture has a parallel scripture describing its fulfillment, and I believe the parallel fulfillment for Matthew 24 verse 22, is Revelation 8 verse 12. Revelation 8 KJV 7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Now, here is where we must look very close at what we are reading. CHRIST reveals in Matthew that HE will shorten the days. There are only two possible physical conclusions here. HE either shortens the number of days of the 1260 days mention as the duration of the period HE describes, or HE shortens the length of the days themselves, shortening the actual time in hours for the 1260 days to pass. This is a physical possibility. Looking at the judgments of the first three trumpets, the earth is being pounded by objects entering the atmosphere from space. The first trumpets are the smaller objects crashing into the earth causing fires that destroy a third of the tree and all the grass. The 2nd trumpet describes an object the size of a mountain being cast into the sea. The 3rd is another object hitting the earth poisoning the fresh waters. I believe the 4th trumpet is the result of the aftermath of the first three. I believe these are meteors or possibly asteroids. Read the 4th trumpet very carefully as to what it is actually saying. In the description of trumpet 4, “the day shone not for a third part of it”, it then says, “and the night likewise”. I believe the impacts from the inbound objects as described in the first three trumpets may accelerate the speed of the earth’s rotation. This will shorten the length of the remaining days by a third, and also the night likewise. Shortening the day in hours by a third equals 8 hours, so the length of a day will be 16 hours instead of 24. This sounds bizarre, wild, even crazy, but under an analyst this is one of the two possible conclusions. Not saying that this is the correct possibility, only that it is a possibility. However if this is the correct assumption of the two, here is what can be explained and expected. 1.CHRIST can fulfill HIS promise to shorten the days, not in number, but by their length. 2.The 1260 days can be maintained, because Genesis defines a day as an evening and a morning. Accelerating the speed of the earth’s rotation will not change the definition of a day as described in the Bible. 3.The time it takes for the 1260 days to transpire will be shortened as promised, by a third. 4.We can understand the timing of the trumpet judgments to begin as happening after the A.O.D. takes place. 5.This could explain why men’s hearts are failing them by what is transpiring in the heavens (space) when these events happen. Again I am not dogmatic here. I present this as a possibility. I also hope that I have spawned an interest of closer examination (analyst) of what the scriptures may be actually saying.