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Montana Marv

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About Montana Marv

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  1. Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

    If you read me, I am Pre-Trib. I do not think anyone of the Church is a symbol to the Raptured Church. In Christ Montana Marv
  2. 50 Reasons for the Pre-tribulation Rapture

    I think you missed the boat. I think you are 144,002. 144,000 divided by 2000 years is 720 converts per year on the average. BTW - John McKenzie was Roman Catholic. In Christ Montana Marv
  3. 50 Reasons for the Pre-tribulation Rapture

    Do you really believe what you posted. You just refuted yourself. "These have been redeemed from mankind" yet you then say, "They are glorified beings. They came from heaven. Not mere mortals". Scripture says they are 12,000 from each Tribe, They are from Israel. They are mortal. Your credibility is crumbling. In Christ Montana Marv
  4. 50 Reasons for the Pre-tribulation Rapture

    Justin So why has the 70 Weeks prophecy not been fulfilled then. 1. Because Daniel's people and his holy city have not accepted their Messiah as prophesied in Dan 9:24. 2. Israel is still in Sin. 3. Israel has not atoned for wickedness. 4. Israel has not finished transgressing. 5. Israel has not brought in everlasting righteousness. 6. Israel has not seal up vision and prophecy. 7. Israel has yet to anoint the Most Holy. When these are accomplished, the 70th Week will be fulfilled as the Prophecy indicates. (100 percent accurate) In Christ Montana Marv
  5. 50 Reasons for the Pre-tribulation Rapture

    Justin So what Trib are you. Post-Trib (read Rev 9:18-21), this eliminates this view. The Rest of mankind continues to worship demons and idols. Pre-Wrath, Pre-Trib is a form of Pre-Wrath, just sooner. Mid-Trib, can be calculated to the day (false, because know one the day or hour). Pre-Wrath, sometime between Mid-Trib and Post-Trib, so this date can be calculated also. I have most likely been a Believer longer than you have been alive. I am Pre-Trib. We may consider you as a weaker member. We know Pre-Trib is true. In Christ Montana Marv
  6. Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

    In Christ This is me speaking; John was always John, he has never been a symbol of the Raptured Church. Looking at 2 Cor 12:2 - Paul says, I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven, Whether it was in the body or out of the body, I do not know - God knows. And I know that this man, whether in the body or apart from the body, but God knows, was caught up to Paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. Could this individual be considered a symbol of the Raptured Church? The thing is he returned. The Raptured Church stays. John was caught up into Heaven in the Spirit. This other man was caught up bodily or in the Spirit (not known). Was he also symbolic of the Raptured Church, I believe neither. He was one without reproach. Now back to Rev 4:1 - After this I looked.. Come up here. Now John is in the Spirit in Heaven. "Then I saw or then I heard", is throughout many of the chapters of Revelation. This is the part of Rev 1:19 - Write, therefore, what you have seen (the letters to the 7 Churches), what is now, and what will take place later. Now Christ is/was the "first fruits", We as the Body of Christ (Church) are considered the second fruits, But will also partake in the glorification of our bodies, as Christ did. We shall be like Him. Now since John was called up into Heaven in the Spirit, this is different that those who will go up in the Rapture, those who remain go up Bodily and in the Spirit. John's body is still in the grave waiting to be Raptured up to be joined with his spirit. John was a messenger to us. In Christ Montana Marv
  7. What is the Day of the Lord?

    Why must there be a Rapture at all. Scripture says there will be one. The 70 Weeks is a prophecy all about Daniel's people (Israel). It is about their timing in accepting the Messiah. And to date they (Israel) has not fulfilled this prophecy. Now during this Church Age, the Age of Grace individuals whether Jew or Gentile can or may accept the Gospel without ever seeing the Lord Jesus Christ, Salvation by faith. The Rapture is an event which only the Father in Heaven knows its time. If this is the case it cannot be found in Scripture which is (the Word, and Jesus is the Word), many tie the Rapture to many of the events in the final 7 Years. Then people are able to project this event (Rapture) to under 7 years. So now individuals have extra time to make a decision for Christ. "Now is the time for Salvation" is now thrown out the window. For me a Pre-Trib Rapture is the only position which cannot be calculated. It has been going on for 2,000 years. It might extend for another 50 years. But once the 7 year covenant is made, the clock ticks down to Armageddon and the Second Coming. In Christ Montana Marv
  8. What is the Day of the Lord?

    Diaste I believe the Lampstands and elders are two different entities. What do lampstands do, they give out light. So each lampstand was to be removed because those individuals of that Church ceased to give out light. They went in a different direction from which they were going when they first learned of the Good News. Call it falling away if you want. If one falls away, they need to repent. If the salt has lost its savor, it will be tramped under foot, and is good for nothing. When the whole 'church' is in sin, their hedge of protection will be removed. Their light will be removed, because they no longer reflect the light. One needs to look at some major christian ???? denominations. Methodists, Some Presbyterians, Some Lutherans and others. Since some of them accept homosexuality, abortion on demand, theory of evolution, etc., etc., etc. What will God do to them? Take their hedge of protection away, for they do not repent. They no longer give out the true light of Christ. They are no longer effective in giving out the Gospel. God removes himself from them. Their lampstand is now removed. The Holy Spirit still indwells believers. When two or three believers are together, I am in their presence. In essence, they may not true believers if they do not repent. This has been going on for the 2,000 years of the Church age. So what is new. It happened in John's time, and it still happens in our time. The seven letters to the seven Churches delves into how these Churches go astray. It us information on what to look for in a dead church or an Active Church. So when the Rapture does occurs, what happens to these lukewarm or dead churches, they reflect. They go nowhere, What went wrong. Now they have a choice, do they what to follow the A/C and receive his mark and become condemned forever. Or do they follow the straight and narrow and be severely treated, and thus, they cannot but or sell, many will die, many will go into captivity and then die. When the food supplies of the world are diminished, guess who will not get food rations, those saints during this 70th Week. The Church of the Latter Day Saints, very devote in what they now believe, which is wrong. They may be some of the first converts. In Christ Montana Marv
  9. What is the Day of the Lord?

    Diaste Rev 1:1 - The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. v.9 - I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and his testimony of Jesus. Write on a scroll what you see and send it (all in John's present time) to the (existing) seven churches in Asia... Most Churches of today have a mixture of what was written to the Seven Churches. We should learn from this. Rev 4:1 - After this I looked up and here before me was a door standing open in heaven.... v.2 Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this. (a future time of what was given in the first 3 chapters) It does not say before or during this time of the seven letters to the seven Churches; It says what must take place after this. Future from the Seven Churches. Future from Us. For we are all made up (a mixture) of what was described to the seven Churches. So now After is After. A glimpse into heaven and what will take place in the future. Rev. 4:10 - The 24 elders lay their crowns before the Throne. We as Believers will be given Rewards and/or Crowns. You must answer the question of who these elders are or represent? 1 Tim 5:17 - The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor. 1 Peter 5:1 - To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's suffering and one who will also share in the glory to be revealed. (Past Tense). v. 4 - and when the Chief Sheppard appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away. So when John who is now in the Spirit is up in Heaven he sees the 24 Elders with their crowns. v. 4 again says; when the Chief Sheppard appears, you will receive the crown of glory. And all this before the Scroll is given to Christ to be opened, before the S, T and B judgments. Go figure. It looks like a Pre-Trib or Pre- 70th Week time to me. Since the 24 Elders have already received their Crowns and our Crowns have already been given out to us, the Chief Sheppard has already appeared to us before the 70th Week. In Christ Montana Marv
  10. Applying Scripture Literally.

    I do not get what you are saying. One post you say they are perhaps fallen angels which had sex with the women of the earth. and then next post you quote Scripture correctly in which they were not defiled with women. Which is it? In Christ Montana Marv
  11. Applying Scripture Literally.

    Double Negative 144,000 virgins, yet had sex with earthly women. They are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel as Scripture says. They have the seal of God on their forehead. In Christ Montana Marv
  12. Applying Scripture Literally.

    I say neither. There are 144,000 and they are from Israel, 12,000 from each tribe. What is their purpose. Rev 12:1 - Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads... v3. and they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. And they follow the Lamb where ever He goes. These are offered as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. (First fruits of who or what?) First fruits of Israel. They were sealed sometime before the 2nd Coming, yet they do their work after the 2nd Coming. In Christ Montana Marv
  13. Our being gathered to Him was what Paul was writing about in 2 Thes 2:1. Not the 2nd Coming, we would not worry or fret when we see Jesus. But, if one thought he had missed the Rapture, Well, he would worry and fret would he not. The Pre-Trib Rapture stuff was well and alive in Paul's day. Get your act together. I read Scripture, that is history, that is prophecy. You have been duped. Israel has not accepted their Messiah as promised in Daniel 9:24. We will agree on very little. You say; the 70 weeks has been fulfilled. I say the 70th Week has not been fulfilled because Israel has yet to accept their Messiah. So I do not believe in your mumbo jumbo with regard to the RCC or your 70th week placement. In Christ Montana Marv
  14. I really don't care what goes on in the RCC. I don't delve into it. So I should beware of you then (beware of those that come in My Name), covers a lot of people. In Christ Montana Marv
  15. So you will gut it out with the rest of the world then, in being part of all mankind who were not killed by the three plagues of Rev 9:18. v 20 - The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood, idols that cannot see or hear or walk. I believe a Pre-Trib Rapture is the only viable position. The only position which one cannot calculate before hand. The final 7 years is yet to be put in place. As Daniel 9:24 says; 70 Sevens are (decreed, determined, prophesied, scheduled for) Daniel's people TO; 1. Finish transgression, 2. Put an end to sin, 3. Atone for wickedness, 4. Bring in everlasting righteousness, 5. Seal up vision and prophecy, 6. Anoint the most holy. When has Israel (Daniel's people) put these six tasks into their hearts. Have you put them into your heart? In Christ Montana Marv