Micheal Westin

 

 

 

 

 

2. I'm saying that passage doesn't give us a license to be a loner. Nothing in the Word gives us a license to be a loner.

 

I don't know why people automatically assume that because someone doesn't attend church, they are all by themselves in their own itty bitty world fighting a losing battle against the forces of evil. Be honest and confess that I don't attend church and I'm automatically labeled a "Lone Ranger". 

 

Why is that?

 

 

2. I don't understand this in bold. Possible to rephrase the question? You want me to be honest and confess that I don't attend church... ?

 

 

 

It's a statement, not a question.

 

 

Honestly man I don't think you are really interested in what I have to say.

I don't believe that being scared (read: Fear of Man) of false doctrine is a good reason for me not to attend church. I trust God's Word and the Holy Spirit through faith in God to help me discern what is truth.

 

I also don't believe that because people have a picture of Jesus this is a good reason for me not to attend church. Jesus probably didn't look the way most people portray Him in Western culture. Does this keep me from fellowship with other fellow Believers? I don't think it should.

 

I finally don't believe that because I can't agree 100% with everything a church stands for this is a good reason for me not to attend church. You mentioned there were 30,000 denominations today. I'm not sure where you got that number but I agree there are many. As Shiloh suggested I'd encourage you to find a church you can agree with for the most part and get plugged in. Or at the very least as Other One put it find a group of Believers you can grow with.

Feel free to disagree. Feel free to present Scripture that gives a Biblical example of stopping attending church.

 

 Let me ask this...what church did Abraham attend? John the Baptist? Moses? Adam? Noah? Enoch? Jacob(Israel)? and many others.... Most all of Jesus parables and lessons where to teach us and those he was speaking to, To  reflect upon ourselves and clean our own Temple(Soul-church).... if we must Judge maybe we ought to start with ourselves in Truth and Spirit. If God leads me to a homeless man whom I give a meal to .. and I Learn something from his words or actions is this wrong? Many of the people Jesus healed where not even allowed to attend church(synagogue) as they where deemed unclean..he went to them. As far as biblical reasons to stop attending church hmm many times are we warned of false teachers / preachers .. Jesus said " Go out into the world and preach the Gospel " most churches would have the world come to them, Most leaders have nice cars, homes, clothing ect.... I would submit that we should listen more to a man who has few material things, maybe no home, eats grasshoppers, lives in a cave, is hated for saying truthful things, and fears nothing for his Love is perfect

 

very good post! I tend to agree, personally I find what's taught in the main auditorium to be so surface and hardly food in a biblical sense, I go for the praise and worship in the corporate setting as it is mentioned in the bible to do so, but I actually agree with man and in this day and age the church has moved so far off its original foundation, many of them are teaching a lot of false doctrines and that's actually what helps sell the false teaching, Its like the more people you get to believe a false doctrine the easier it is to sell to the general public.

which is why people generally stay in a denomination from generation to generation, nobody questions that their parents could be wrong, until someone in the family starts to question these things that are taught as truth. That's what the reformers were, and that's what's still going on today, although its a step forward three steps back kind of growth, but I believe there are really scores of believers who believe that a biblical church is what church should be like, and are searching for one that is working to become what the bible says the church looks like.

considering there are many parts to the body, some parts that may not seem connected are very much connected in the Spiritual sense. And we see those that appear they are connected as in Revelations 1-3 are not only unconnected but are in need of complete repentance so that they can still be saved

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the beef is about, you know full well that the rules the Amish say will send them to hell are false, what's the big deal if they keep rules that will not make a difference, they still will go to heaven! isn't that what the whole race to the finish line is all about, receiving the prize, so they jumped a bunch of extra hurdles, maybe ran up and down a few unnecessary hills, I would conclude going the extra mile to be a safer bet than what the liberal Christianity tries to sell, and will find themselves being called workers of iniquity on the day of judgment

for they were taught not to overcome sin but to simply live in it as if it were not sin, or that living in sin is covered by the blood 

The big deal is that they are teaching false things about the gospel.

 

gal 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

Jesus, His apostles, did not preach a gospel which included shunning the technology of the civilization around them or suggest that failing to adhere to complex rules leading to excommunication is tied up in the salvation of people.

 

they have the correct gospel, Jesus the Son of God, dying on the cross as a sacrifice for sins, repenting and believing in Jesus Christ everything else will be tested by fire

 

 

So that I had a better understanding of Christianity, I had a mentor/teacher, tell me to go to various church services to compare them and note the apparent differing beliefs. I went to a Lutheran service, a Roman Catholic service, a Congregational service, a Unitarian Universalist service, and a few others.  

 

Lutherans teach that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross as a sacrifice for sins, and one must repent and believe in Jesus.

Romans Catholics teach that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross as a sacrifice for sins, and one must repent and believe in Jesus.

Congregationalists teach that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross as a sacrifice for sins, and one must repent and believe in Jesus.

 

Unitarian Universalists do not teach the Jesus is the Son of God who dies on the cross as a sacrifice for sins, etc. So, this is the only religious group which is not Christian at least in form.

 

I did not go to a Mormon service, but according to the Mormon website, Mormons believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died as an atonement for sins, and one must repent and believe in Jesus.

 

Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is the Son of God, Who died for sins, and one must repent and believe in Jesus.  

 

yes that is the gospel the bible teaches Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth , Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Is this not the gospel that is saving you?

I just read an article based on an interview with Justice Scalia in which he said that he definitely believed in the devil. His statements caused an outcry from Liberals and reductionists accusing him of irrationality. I was just thinking that if Jesus is represented as being the "Bright and Morning star", wouldn't it be appropriate to symbolize the devil as the "dark star" which we cannot see, but whose activities can be discerned by what is going on in the world. We can see the malignant activities, malignant aggression, and the "hubris and fear oscillations" that are occurring. Modernists and reductionists no longer believe in sin, bad people etc. They may think that they have an understanding of evil, but because of that they will likely be taken by surprise. I don't believe that anyone can get a comprehensive understanding of evil.

I believe people can get comprehensive understanding of evil, but there is a severe cost, Solomon said it best "ignorance is bliss"

How do I accept God’s Love for me? Do I even know what His Love for me is?

 

It’s a hard question to answer, because there is not just one answer.

 

God’s Love is manifest in Him sending His Son to die on a Cross for my sins, and to give me the totally unwarranted gift of salvation through His Grace alone. We all (I think all), accept this as one of the precepts of God’s Love for us.

 

I also know that God’s Love is constant, never changing and all encompassing, whether He is blessing me or disciplining me. Above all His Love is impartial, (some translations use the word impartial quite a bit), - His love takes no sides.

 

I struggled for years to articulate, to fully understand His Love for me (I am a person who always feels uncomfortable receiving a blessing, gift or compliment, and I have always been that way). I did learn this. It’s much easier to accept the Love of someone intent on loving you if you are advancing toward them or resting in their presence. It’s almost impossible to accept the Love if you are walking away from the person intent on Loving you. (Even though they still love you)

 

During really bad times of my life, before operations (on the operating table), in mentally depressed or downcast states, losing both my parents and my nephew, one thing I have always known. God Loves me, He does not stop Loving me, His Love never falters, and in bad times I rest in that (because my love for Him can falter, and be affected by my circumstance, I am human), but His does not. I just put my head down and I slog or plow along, sometimes in my own world, ignoring the world around me, I just move forward, sometimes at a snail’s pace. My wife has said to me I don’t know how you do it, you are sick as a dog, stressed and working to the bone, but you just carry on. I do this because through my pity party, and my woe is me, nobody loves me everybody hates me go in the garden and eat worms, unpleasant to be around state, I know one thing. God Loves me, and He will always be there.

 

So, to answer some questions….

 

God Loves me, I know He does, He has proved His constant, rock foundation love over and over again. And that Love never changes.

But we are all different, and as believers we all accept that unchanging Love in different ways.

 

And that’s why there is no stock one answer fits all to the question as to what does God’s Love means to you.

 

This Love overrides, all, everything, it is as immense and endless as is our God.

 

His Love is the core of my existence, and my love for Him (and I do with heart and soul), cannot match it.

 

As my core, His Love for me drives me to want to please Him, (that’s working for Him) not my love for Him trying to prove myself to Him (that’s works).

 

That’s what Gods Love means to me.

Amen! Its God's love that draws every believer, every part of the body as strange as each part seems, is drawn by that same unfathomable love

 

I'm not sure what the beef is about, you know full well that the rules the Amish say will send them to hell are false, what's the big deal if they keep rules that will not make a difference, they still will go to heaven! isn't that what the whole race to the finish line is all about, receiving the prize, so they jumped a bunch of extra hurdles, maybe ran up and down a few unnecessary hills, I would conclude going the extra mile to be a safer bet than what the liberal Christianity tries to sell, and will find themselves being called workers of iniquity on the day of judgment

for they were taught not to overcome sin but to simply live in it as if it were not sin, or that living in sin is covered by the blood 

 

 

Yes, what indeed is the big difference or any difference.

 

Here is what is is:

 

A gospel of grace vs a gospel of works

 

Those who are saved by grace...the LOVE of God for us represented in the ultimate sacrifice of God's only begotten and sinless Son will do good works.

 

Those who feel the need to ADD to God's perfection, will ultimately end up adding works to God's grace as in...you MUST do this or that

 

Micheal, not meaning to disparage you, but presenting a verse out of context or altering the meaning because of a lack of proper biblical exegesis, history or even simple understanding,

does not verify one's belief as truth.

 

The gospel of grace in our Lord Jesus Christ is a pivotal and absolute in our acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus.  Adding to that sacrifice, diminishes that truth...this is not my personal

understanding, but the understanding of all those who comprehend what is taught by Paul in the book of Romans and the New Testament in general

 

You cannot add to the grace of God with works.  However, those under grace ultimately do good works.

 

not sure what verse I took out of context or altered the meaning, but I'm pretty sure the Amish have a salvation bringing gospel, you may not like the extra rules they lay out for living in their community but it is America and your not forced to live among them are you, I think we will find a lot of Amish once we step from here to the otherside

 

I'm not sure what the beef is about, you know full well that the rules the Amish say will send them to hell are false, what's the big deal if they keep rules that will not make a difference, they still will go to heaven! isn't that what the whole race to the finish line is all about, receiving the prize, so they jumped a bunch of extra hurdles, maybe ran up and down a few unnecessary hills, I would conclude going the extra mile to be a safer bet than what the liberal Christianity tries to sell, and will find themselves being called workers of iniquity on the day of judgment

for they were taught not to overcome sin but to simply live in it as if it were not sin, or that living in sin is covered by the blood 

The big deal is that they are teaching false things about the gospel.

 

gal 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

Jesus, His apostles, did not preach a gospel which included shunning the technology of the civilization around them or suggest that failing to adhere to complex rules leading to excommunication is tied up in the salvation of people.

 

they have the correct gospel, Jesus the Son of God, dying on the cross as a sacrifice for sins, repenting and believing in Jesus Christ everything else will be tested by fire

 

 

 

Judas was named as one of the 12 disciples, he went out two by two preaching repent for the kingdom of God is near, heaing the sick and casting out demons, the scriptures clearly show he operated in the power of the Holy Spirit, trusted and chosen to hold the finances of the ministry, I'm not sure why people don't think he wasn't a believer

 

True, Judas was most likely water baptized with the other apostles whom Jesus chose, and he worked along with all of the apostles as you say, but he lost this privileged position when he betrayed Jesus.

 

I do not agree that Judas was operating at this time under the power of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit was not given to the apostles until after our Lord's Resurrection, and Judas was no longer around.

 

We see from scripture that while a measure of the Holy Spirit was always present on the earth as we see all through the old testament that prophets and men of God were filled with the Holy Spirit for special  purposes and times, we also see Jesus breathing on the apostles and filling them with the Holy Spirit (John 20:22)  all but Judas and Thomas, experienced this infilling. It appears that Thomas did not believe Jesus was really alive, I'm not sure if today if a person did not believe in the resurrection of Christ if they would be considered a true believer

 

we see earlier Jesus sending out the twelve with power, from a biblical standpoint the power has always been the Holy Spirit, I'm not sure how you could equate doing any miracles without the Holy Spirit in operation, clearly the bible refers to the twelve going out and all twelve experienced what is written they experienced. otherwise it would of said "When Jesus had called the eleven together, He gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,"( Luke 9:1)  I'm not sure how it could be explained that an unbeliever could operate in the power and authority of the Holy Spirit, I know a lot of folks seem to want to say Judas wasn't a believer, but I don't believe the bible teaches that assumption.

 

 

 

Again, the scripture you refer to in John 20:22 is after Jesus rose from the dead, (when he breathed on them) not before.

 

In Luke 9, the apostles were operating on the authority of Jesus, (which also proved who Jesus was) just as Peter walked on the water in Matthew 14:22-33 when Jesus commanded him to "Come".

 

from the bible we see that the power of the Holy Spirit did not vary in significance of either power or authority whether it was before Christ died or after, clearly even before Jesus died on the cross He had authority over every demon and evil spirit, thus He was able to give that same authority to His twelve disciples, I guess you can either believe that Judas was included with the twelve or he wasn't, the bible says he was

 

 

clearly the bible teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is what is paramount for believers, biblically it is the Holy Spirit that is the power behind casting out demons, love for Jesus is nice , and its nice to know Jesus loves us, but the word of God says its faith that moves mountains not love

maybe you believe understanding God's love for you is what gives you faith, I think that maybe different for each person, maybe you have a scripture that would show that faith is grown through understanding God's love for us

I believe the bible says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God Romans 10:17

 

 

 

OK Micheal...the above is from you again (not addressed to me)

 

You do understand that all gifts are like clanging cymbols without love?  I know of people who go at those they think they want to deliver of demons with hatred and spittle coming out of

their mouth

 

And then we have Jesus who looks into your soul, into your heart and into the depths of your being and asks "Do you want to be free?"

 

People fear the devil and will continue to fear the devil and be in awe of him until they understand that the Lion of Judah is the One who gives power through the Spirit of God to

deal with the demonic and it is not the angry lion who has all power.  The roaring lion is the devil...he likes to make alot of noise...paralyze with fear...the Lion of Judah brings

peace and deliverance and freedom....not knowledge of what the devil is doing

 

The Bible says to be aware of the devil's schemes....to be aware of the schemes does not mean listing everything you think he is up to...it means to understand how he works...

and that gives understanding and discernment....not digging into conspiracies and what have you

 

Anyway, for me its enough about the devil.

 

that's just it! be aware of the devils schemes! of the deceptions! of the lies!.......that's what some here are doing, we are aware!

I can't help someone who is unable to see the blatant facts of reality.

just simply saying nothings going on is hardly a remedy for what thousands are experiencing and have experienced since satans fall.

 

 

As a Christian I know that the bible does not elude to an alien invasion of little grey aliens, and the evidence from even the highest places in government is supporting this story of grey alien beings and others who are working with them, Christians need to get on board and come to the understanding that the only nonhuman lifeforms that the bible teaches comes down to earth from heaven is satan and his fallen angels and there only goal is to deceive and destroy humanity

 

statements made on the house floor are blatant evidence that preparations are being made that show this to be fact

 

 

 

God is not a politician.  He raises up one kingdom and puts another down.  God has not called the United States the apple of His eye.  Which nation did He actually say that too?

 

Don't try to understand your Creator from a politicians viewpoint or through the newspaper or your own understanding.  You won't find Him there.

 

I don't! I just listen to what's being discussed on the congressional floor and its conclusive evidence that satan has deceived our government to believe some sort of alien fictitious story 

It comes across to me that the reason why Other One has said the things he has is because he is being put on the defensive, having to explain why he does what he does?  He knows he has been helping people, and then he is attacked for it.  He knows he is sharing information he believes can help others, and even goes so far as to counsel them in private, and is then attacked for doing so.  Anyone being placed in that position will react as he has. 

I agree, even Paul needed to defend himself at times, in all his sufferings for the cross

 

you might consider the boy who the disciples could not cast the demon out of, what did Jesus say concerning those kind of demons, not every demon jumps out with a single command, some require prayer and fasting, as Jesus instructed 

 

while I don't believe every believer is called to the ministry of casting out demons, Mark attributes it as a sign for those that believe, I would attribute it to a believer that has taken in a little more than bread and milk

 

 

 

Micheal, what has that got to do with naming demons?  Nothing?  Right.  Nothing.  If it is biblical, then I practice it...but not to brag and or boast.  We were talking about naming demons...

 

Demonology is not a ministry and neither is casting out demons although God knows, many have made themself such and refer to themselves as Deliverance ministers.....every Christian 

should understand how to deal with the demonic...no one should be running after a human being who thinks they know all about demons...demons are liars...listen to them long enough

and you will believe you have secret knowledge because the devil comes as an angel of light......

 

Even if all these conspiracy theories were true...and if is the biggest little word in the English language, even IF they were true...the Bible tells us not to delve into such things but to keep our

eyes on Jesus...not be obsessed with demons and their leader.

 

Unfortuneately, many Christians have no idea how to deal with or equip themselves to deal with the evil that exists here.  In fact,  some believe that there is no need to understand or

know such things and so the pendulum swings the other way and we have specialists running around who do any number of odd and harmful things and want to speak to the demons

or think they need some kind of big power show.  

 

You appear to have the idea that because I object to theory and conspiracy being presented as truth, that I know nothing and believe little.  That, would be wrong.

 

I have stated such numerous times and it is either misunderstood or deliberately ignored because it makes someone like me, who prefers to stay balanced and who actually

does understand the harm demons can do, seem as though I have nothing but words that I believe with no action on my part necessary.

 

As I do not write what I know or have experienced, seen or whatever it seems that some think I am ignorant of satans' devices...I am not and that is one reason I button it.  It is better not

to even talk about him...he loves attention and he is getting plenty here.

 

There is only One Name he fears...and is not your name or my name.  It is the name of Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son and if we accomplish anything in the fight for

freedom that Jesus died that we might have, it is because of Jesus.....not because of esoteric knowledge that we present as a secret weapon.  There is no secret weapon.

 

If someone believes they have secret weapon, then they are deceived.  Everything Jesus did, He did in the light.  He, is the Way, the Truth and the Life...and believe me,

He really is!!!

 

I just wanted to point out that not every demon comes out with just a word, maybe that's why the bible refers to it as "driving demons out"  sometimes its like cattle and it takes a little work (fasting and prayer) I would disagree that everything was done in public, we see the disciples being alone with a person when bringing them back to life on a few occasions, I prefer this tactic as to not make it into a sideshow, although it would do Christians everywhere a great service to witness a real demon being cast out of someone privately, and not as a sensational circus performance.

 

 

Listen, if I knew nothing about demons I would simply write nothing.  Jesus delivered those in darnkness in public.  That way, God always received the glory.

 

One scripture is better than all the hogwash about aliens.  Just one scripture will do more to set a soul free than all the profiling and indoctrination into the world of

secret societies and the illuminati.

 

Scripture damages people?  You have a better way?  Now I know you are treading in dark waters.  But I didn't actually need you to make that statement to know that.

 

I firmly believe that the devil has a plan but God has a better one.

 

I have helped any and all God has seen fit to send my way.  Yes...in the name of Jesus I have cast out demons and helped to set people free...but I prefer they learn to walk

in the light themself rather then feed them pablum and keep them needy.

 

This is not a competition...I cannot set anyone free.  But I know SOMEONE who can and His blood was shed to set the captives free.

 

My heart breaks for those in captivity because I know how it feels.  Bragging rights belong to those who think they know something.

 

I am of the belief that it is better not to tell everyone everything we think we know.  I do not find enlightment in those things...only more darkness

 

Deception always has some truth to it.  There is some truth to all the demon conspiracy theories...the rest is a vortex of lies and deception.

 

Let us walk in the light.

how many people have you held hands with and worked through freeing them from demonic bondage and stayed around mentoring them until they could stand on their own,  until you can say several don't council me about demons.  I didn't bring this subject up.  I'm only trying to tell you just how wrong and destructive your stand on demons is.......

 

Other One, I don't understand why people are critical of you and what you are doing?  It is obvious to me you are trying to help people, and I find much of the criticisms judgemental.  I also agree with you about possible end time deceptions?  I don't understand why people want to limit the conversation on subjects like this to such a narrow focus?  Demons are real, and there is no question there are deceptions being propagated regarding little grey men from another planet. 

 

As a Christian I know that the bible does not elude to an alien invasion of little grey aliens, and the evidence from even the highest places in government is supporting this story of grey alien beings and others who are working with them, Christians need to get on board and come to the understanding that the only nonhuman lifeforms that the bible teaches comes down to earth from heaven is satan and his fallen angels and there only goal is to deceive and destroy humanity

statements made on the house floor are blatant evidence that preparations are being made that show this to be fact

I have some good questions. 1. Why do some say the closer you are to God the closer you are to the devil. Is there anyway to walk FAR from the devil and not always have him lurking. For example, what's the point of staying close to God if the devil is always on your tail. 2. What actions does one take to fast. 3. When we say the devil has millions of helpers, is there scripture to support exactly how many demons are working under him besides the six already.

 

the bible says he took 1/3 of the angels with him, If you were fighting a war, wouldn't it just be a logical choice to aim at the enemy who is firing a missile launcher rather than the enemy who is merely throwing stones.

you are a greater target the more you are seen as a greater threat to the enemy.

 

Judas was named as one of the 12 disciples, he went out two by two preaching repent for the kingdom of God is near, heaing the sick and casting out demons, the scriptures clearly show he operated in the power of the Holy Spirit, trusted and chosen to hold the finances of the ministry, I'm not sure why people don't think he wasn't a believer

 

True, Judas was most likely water baptized with the other apostles whom Jesus chose, and he worked along with all of the apostles as you say, but he lost this privileged position when he betrayed Jesus.

 

I do not agree that Judas was operating at this time under the power of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit was not given to the apostles until after our Lord's Resurrection, and Judas was no longer around.

 

We see from scripture that while a measure of the Holy Spirit was always present on the earth as we see all through the old testament that prophets and men of God were filled with the Holy Spirit for special  purposes and times, we also see Jesus breathing on the apostles and filling them with the Holy Spirit (John 20:22)  all but Judas and Thomas, experienced this infilling. It appears that Thomas did not believe Jesus was really alive, I'm not sure if today if a person did not believe in the resurrection of Christ if they would be considered a true believer

we see earlier Jesus sending out the twelve with power, from a biblical standpoint the power has always been the Holy Spirit, I'm not sure how you could equate doing any miracles without the Holy Spirit in operation, clearly the bible refers to the twelve going out and all twelve experienced what is written they experienced. otherwise it would of said "When Jesus had called the eleven together, He gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,"( Luke 9:1)  I'm not sure how it could be explained that an unbeliever could operate in the power and authority of the Holy Spirit, I know a lot of folks seem to want to say Judas wasn't a believer, but I don't believe the bible teaches that assumption.

when the witches and sorcerers were converted in the bible they threw away ancient scrolls of great value that taught them their paganism, your wise to do the same

 

 

 

One thing that stands out in my sleep muddled brain with roofers banging overhead ....

 

Jesus did not want demons to be a witness of Him. He told the man who was freed from possession not to tell anyone. Yes He warns us to be wary and not deceived but that means keeping our eyes on Him, not on demonic stuff. 

 

 

It is my understanding that the command (sorry forget just what passage at the moment) where Jesus forbade them to speak (more than one I think) actually might or would be translated as

 

"shut up!" and not just be quiet.  

 

There is the instance of the legion demon where Jesus asked 'their' name...but that seems to be the exception....just the opposite of what many 'deliverance' ministers do now....which I do not find biblical either

 

I mean, if something is just going to lie to you, then why would you ask it anything?  Even if it tells the truth, the ultimate aim is always and only to deceive, lead astray and destroy

 

I'm not an expert, but in my experience, you just want them gone

 

you might consider the boy who the disciples could not cast the demon out of, what did Jesus say concerning those kind of demons, not every demon jumps out with a single command, some require prayer and fasting, as Jesus instructed 

 

while I don't believe every believer is called to the ministry of casting out demons, Mark attributes it as a sign for those that believe, I would attribute it to a believer that has taken in a little more than bread and milk

 

Yes! And a believer who understands and lives fully in the Love of God. Because that is the only foundation you really have.

 

Example?

 

If you are confronting someone who is possessed, and dangerous, and you rely solely on your love for Jesus you could find yourself in trouble. But if you understand the Love Jesus has for you, the unshakable, all encompassing, never failing Love, you have the foundation to speak in faith from.

 

Can you see what I am trying to say.?

 

clearly the bible teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is what is paramount for believers, biblically it is the Holy Spirit that is the power behind casting out demons, love for Jesus is nice , and its nice to know Jesus loves us, but the word of God says its faith that moves mountains not love

maybe you believe understanding God's love for you is what gives you faith, I think that maybe different for each person, maybe you have a scripture that would show that faith is grown through understanding God's love for us

I believe the bible says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God Romans 10:17

When Jesus sends out the twelve, casting out demons was part of the ministry, personally I find it almost appalling how little Christians actually know about the subject.

but considering its a controversial subject I imagine its clear as to why this is the case.  

 

One thing that stands out in my sleep muddled brain with roofers banging overhead ....

 

Jesus did not want demons to be a witness of Him. He told the man who was freed from possession not to tell anyone. Yes He warns us to be wary and not deceived but that means keeping our eyes on Him, not on demonic stuff. 

 

 

It is my understanding that the command (sorry forget just what passage at the moment) where Jesus forbade them to speak (more than one I think) actually might or would be translated as

 

"shut up!" and not just be quiet.  

 

There is the instance of the legion demon where Jesus asked 'their' name...but that seems to be the exception....just the opposite of what many 'deliverance' ministers do now....which I do not find biblical either

 

I mean, if something is just going to lie to you, then why would you ask it anything?  Even if it tells the truth, the ultimate aim is always and only to deceive, lead astray and destroy

 

I'm not an expert, but in my experience, you just want them gone

 

you might consider the boy who the disciples could not cast the demon out of, what did Jesus say concerning those kind of demons, not every demon jumps out with a single command, some require prayer and fasting, as Jesus instructed 

while I don't believe every believer is called to the ministry of casting out demons, Mark attributes it as a sign for those that believe, I would attribute it to a believer that has taken in a little more than bread and milk

I'm not sure what the beef is about, you know full well that the rules the Amish say will send them to hell are false, what's the big deal if they keep rules that will not make a difference, they still will go to heaven! isn't that what the whole race to the finish line is all about, receiving the prize, so they jumped a bunch of extra hurdles, maybe ran up and down a few unnecessary hills, I would conclude going the extra mile to be a safer bet than what the liberal Christianity tries to sell, and will find themselves being called workers of iniquity on the day of judgment

for they were taught not to overcome sin but to simply live in it as if it were not sin, or that living in sin is covered by the blood 

 depending on the government is a recipe for disaster no matter who you are, or what race you are

 

I'm not sure what your driving at, yes we see Jesus does love Peter and Jesus takes Peters hand, Peter was also crusified upside down on a cross, what would you be suggesting that Peter didn't have enough faith to protect him from satan and those who wanted to kill Christianity, maybe Peter wasn't fully surrendered?.....I have no idea where your going with the question of what does it mean to be loved by God.

 

I can tell you what it doesn't mean, It doesn't mean that you will escape being killed by the enemies of God

we see from the words Jesus own mouth that it very well may be a death sentence to anyone who decides to follow Him

 

Perhaps I am not explaining myself well enough Michael.

 

I am not singling you out here, but using (as I have done with others posts), comments made to try and get people to think.

 

We all confess our love for Jesus as professing Christians, it is sort of a given (and quite easy to say). But when asked the question "tell me what it means to you that God loves you, what does that love mean?" we all can repeat by rote that he sent His son to die for us on the Cross, washed us free of our sins, and has forgiven us. And to many that's what it has become, rote. (Even in many, many churches)

 

But there is so much More to God's love in our daily lives! We live under an open heaven, the curtain between His kingdom and us was torn apart and the kingdom revealed. Revelation, from the Latin "Vellum", or veil, the lifting of the veil. Open skies!

 

And yet we struggle and strive under a veil that is not there. it is our own construct. We postulate with no solid scriptural backing of things we no nothing of, and have no control over, like His second coming. We place too much importance on things over which we have no control. Instead of accepting His love, and in turn loving Him. Much of what we do and say here on this Ministry site, and I will say it again, leads me to despair of our understanding of His Great love. 

 

What we do have control over, singular and collective, is preparing His bride as spotless and unblemished.

 

Because that's when He is coming back to claim His bride, when she is spotless and without blemish (so that's not strictly scriptural, sue me!).

 

And no alien, demon, locust, rust, mammon, should be standing in our way without trembling in fear of His great Love. But first we need to understand what that love is.

 

(and as an aside man and bopeep - that's why we should be going to church, Jesus is coming for His bride, his church, and that is scriptural)

 

that's great Fez! I get it! but the bride won't be spotless and without blemish if she hasn't a clue to what spots her or what will blemish her, the bible clearly speaks of satan deceiving the whole world, what would all the warnings be for? , all the prophesies that lay out satans plans of a great deception, the forewarning of a predicted great falling away from the faith, that even the elect could be deceived, and appears this was truly correct, not only does the body of Christ reject truth they don't even want to talk about it.

the whole end of days scenario is wrapped up in the coming of the lawless one, someone who will be infilled with satan himself, someone who will display great wonders, even calling fire down from heaven, It stands to reason he will be working with demons and all his evil spirits to fulfill this prophetic picture.

the lawless one will be working directly with satan as we see from the bible satan gives him power, so he is a satanist to be sure, one wouldn't have to speculate or assume to greatly that this coming man of perdition will be directly tied to other satanist, and satanist are controlled by demons and evil spirits.

considering all these things are true, why do you not think they are relevant for discussion?

 

 what the love of God means to me, Is found in John 3:16

what is my personal knowledge of Him loving me? 

Is that while I was yet a sinner Christ died for me

how is it expressed in my life? I repented and turned from my life of sin (by the worlds standards much greater than most), and now I live my life to please God, trying to keep His commands and the greatest of these is to Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and to love your neighbor as yourself 

 

and Jesus answered and said "you have answered correctly, "Do this and you will live"

 

 

a big part of my believing in Jesus was the discovery that satan and his kingdoms were real, having demons who were once living inside of me, gives a person a great cause to expose the works of darkness, I can imagine if I had never experienced such a thing that it would not be anything I would focus on today, and I could be more like you in the way you think. and the way you minister but that's not the way my life unfolded and I am truly sorry for that, as I am a man who fell farther than most from the glory of God. but in this fall,  I believe also that just as Jesus said in Luke 7:47 "Therefore I tell you her many sins have been forgiven, for she loved much. but he who is forgiven little loves little"

by Jesus's own words I can certainly say I love Him more than anyone here

Michael there us so much interesting stuff going on at once in this thread forgive me if i don't reply straight away, I also live in an inconvenient time zone...

 

And once again it's not about me, as you would have it. I am just as confused and lost as most at times, and I have many things i have to still correct in my walk, but the flesh is as always weak... (read my testimony and then talk to me about darkness...). I sometimes think I spend my day saying "sorry Lord" and does satan just not love that!

 

But you did not really answer my question. You told me how much you love Jesus, that you live your life to please God, that you love Him more than anyone here, all which is great.

 

But tell me what it means to be loved by God?

 

Let me give you a simple explanation because i like things simple (like the title of this thread).

 

Loving God is like a child standing at the roadside, with traffic screaming by, and the child reaches up and grabs their parents hand. There is nothing wrong with that. The child knows the parent is there, and that they can grab the parents hand because it is there to grab. It's comforting and protecting and safe. The problem is when the child's had gets tired, or sweaty and they begin to lose their grip. Because they have the control, but are not strong enough to maintain the grip. We are often like that, we grip the hand of Jesus, the love of Jesus, tightly at times, and at other times we let slip.. (the bible tells us about that love in the story of Peter does it not?)

 

The Love of God however, is like the child surrendering all, lifting their hand and knowing without a doubt that God will take their hand, and never let go. It is the ultimate surrender, the ultimate faith. Many of us don't understand the power of that Love, we don't live in that Love, we can't accept that Love, because it means "losing" control. (the bible tells us about that Love in the story of Hosea, God crafted Hosea's life to glorify His Love)

 

Once we understand that Love, live in that Love, all else becomes (like the song), dim.

 

I'm not sure what your driving at, yes we see Jesus does love Peter and Jesus takes Peters hand, Peter was also crusified upside down on a cross, what would you be suggesting that Peter didn't have enough faith to protect him from satan and those who wanted to kill Christianity, maybe Peter wasn't fully surrendered?.....I have no idea where your going with the question of what does it mean to be loved by God.

I can tell you what it doesn't mean, It doesn't mean that you will escape being killed by the enemies of God

we see from the words from Jesus's own mouth that it very well may be a death sentence to anyone who decides to follow Him no matter how much God loves them, or how completely surrendered they are

 

 what the love of God means to me, Is found in John 3:16

what is my personal knowledge of Him loving me? 

Is that while I was yet a sinner Christ died for me

how is it expressed in my life? I repented and turned from my life of sin (by the worlds standards much greater than most), and now I live my life to please God, trying to keep His commands and the greatest of these is to Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and to love your neighbor as yourself 

 

and Jesus answered and said "you have answered correctly, "Do this and you will live"

 

 

a big part of my believing in Jesus was the discovery that satan and his kingdoms were real, having demons who were once living inside of me, gives a person a great cause to expose the works of darkness, I can imagine if I had never experienced such a thing that it would not be anything I would focus on today, and I could be more like you in the way you think. and the way you minister but that's not the way my life unfolded and I am truly sorry for that, as I am a man who fell farther than most from the glory of God. but in this fall,  I believe also that just as Jesus said in Luke 7:47 "Therefore I tell you her many sins have been forgiven, for she loved much. but he who is forgiven little loves little"

by Jesus's own words I can certainly say I love Him more than anyone here

 

Actually, if you read other people's posts here of their personal walk with Christ, you will find many similar stories.  I don't think it's a competition, Michael.  And the most important thing is not that you love God.  It's that God loves you.  God's love outmatches ours every single time.   And He forgives much all the time.

 

I agree that people are ignorant of how the enemy works.  I don't really like to focus my attention on him so much but we shouldn't pretend that he's not there.  But I also agree with Fez.  We should be glorifying God in our discussions.  I for one ask because I just have an inquisitive nature about things and I truly want to understand, not just debate.  The Christian perspective on anything is very important for me.  As long as it lines up with God's Word, I will stick with it until I understand. 

 

Nobody knows everything, except for God anyway.  Nobody has the monopoly on knowledge, wisdom or understanding.  In His love we can help each other get there.  The focus must first be God's love.  I think we agree on this, no?

 

oh I agree, It seemed my relationship with the Lord was in question, by the questions that were asked of me.

 

Give America a Break – Please

October 7, 2013 at 10:52pm

Jim Croft

 

Throughout my Christian experience there has been a peculiarity with increasing numbers of believers that I find mystifying.  It is the assertion that political-religious tribulation, economic downturns and natural disasters will bring the unconverted masses to Christ and the churched to greater intensities of dedication to the Lord.

Some seem to get what might qualify as a crazed gleam in their eyes when they speak of America’s incoming just deserves.  It is as though their oratory is lathered with fervency about impending doom by the haunting cellos and French horns of the Jaws movie score.

 

The Scriptures, history and candid observation of the Church in oppressed nations do not support the premise that troubles guarantee massive upturns in zeal for the Lord.   Incessant pressures are more apt to incite frustrated discouragement that leads to willful departure from the faith.  There are relatively few who utilize subjection to life’s various tribulations as reminders of the brevity of this life and that Christians are to live with eternity in mind. 

 

<snip>

 

I have spent decades ministering in impoverished nations and in those under the antichrist thumb of Communism.  It is the best of the Christian harvest that are heralded as champions of righteousness in mission reports.  Those who have up-close and personal interaction with broad facets of the Persecuted Church are seldom candid about all that they witness.

Economic hardship does not inevitably produce holiness.  The nakedness of poverty creates boredom.  The prospects that nothing creative can be accomplished, ignites the challenge of lustful escapades.  My experience is that many poverty ridden believers in 3rd world nations have a brand of sanctification that exists from the waist up.

 

Politically based religious persecution does not always guarantee unified cooperation between different Christian groups.  Some of the most divisive attitudes and corrupt activity that I have ever seen amongst churches have been in Communist strongholds.  The shameful sins that are found in too many American pastoral leaders and their parishioners are just a prevalent with believers in countries closed to the Gospel.

 

It would be prudent for those who glamorize what tribulation can allegedly accomplish to keep the words of Jesus in mind.  The cares of this life include concerns about creative innovation to better livelihood and the resultant relational upheaval caused by the lack of reasonable provision.  These cares have no less capacity to choke out the Word’s productivity than the deceitfulness of riches.  When it comes to desires for more things, the oppressed are ever mindful; perhaps even more so than the affluent. (Matt 13:22: Mk 4:19)

 

<snip>

 

I do not think it is accurate to assume that the turbulence is solely designed to bring about experiential holiness in individuals.  I am of the opinion that the purification is more so a winnowing separation of chaff personalities from the Body of Christ. 

 

<snip>

 

During the Babylonian captivity, he commanded the Israelis to bless the cities in which they dwelt.  He promised that as they did so, the cities would prosper and the captives would in turn reap the benefits also.

 

I am confident that believers, who choose faith for America and resist condemning her, will experience greater measures of peace and prosperity than those who persist in woeful prognostications.  To give America a break is educated household preservation.  It will reap optimum results, no matter what the future holds.   

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jim-croft-ministries/give-america-a-break-please/636838846359979

I don't think that chastisement or judgement on a nation will automatically cause people to fall down on their knees and repent.  We didn't see that happen in Judah, but at the same time, the destruction that occured was at the hand of God, and I believe much of the things we are experiencing in this nation are judgements.  Asking the American people to give America a break won't do any good.  God is the one bringing the chaos.  The only thing the American people can do is repent in sackcloth and ashes. 

 

there comes a point when even sack cloth and ashes won't help, and personally I don't see that happening until its to late, much like the people of Sodom and Gomorrah hindsight is 20/20

 

then again we could go by what the bible teaches in accordance with the last days and see that Christianity has a great falling away and decline in faith, and is further declined by the killing of those who really are believers, not to mention but the increase like birth pains of natural disasters and pestilances, floods earthquakes and the nuclear reactors that meltdown in there wake, 

hate to be such a Debbie downer but old testament instruction for a past captivity has no bearing on  what is promised in the last days for those who believe.

In fact Jesus has clearly stated "they will hate you and kill you"

 

now the good news He has overcome death and the grave, and the second death will have no effect on you

 

 

OK, but it's been "the last days" ever since the Holy Spirit fell on the believers in Acts 2.

 

Why should we insist that the End will occur this decade or even this century?

 

I never said it will, but isn't it  simply a fact that everyday that passes, it is just one day closer to its coming to pass

the bible clearly shows that the world gets worse and worse for all its inhabitants but more so for those who claim Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior 

this is simply a biblical fact, it will always be better for those who lived before us, the good ole days will really be the good ole days