AnotherSinner

Have thought about doing that too...but never felt any pull in that direction. Would not know what to write about either.... Think the only thing I am really good for when it comes to sharing God's word is babble.... which is already being done at a couple sites outside of facebook. Just feel in short, talent...or gifts in that department are in a word, lacking. Will be waiting for that pm, it is no rush. Will be praying for your arm. May God Bless You Dani

Lady C, Do you know what I write? Might change your mind once you knew. If you are not a big fan of LOTR......odds are my works are going to be disliked a lot by some Christian populus. Taking some factual happenings in my life as well as people and putting them in a Medieval setting in a fictional tale...there are some unbiblical types in there.... but they are needed to bring about the reflection of hope for change... ....Already explaining myself....yikes. Know of any good sites I could do this at?

Onelight, You are bringing out some very interesting points...how does one know though? How do we know when the understanding of scripture is not our own? There are a few ways. One is to learn to listen to His Spirit, which is usually a quiet voice in you directing you. We sometimes are so much into our own heads that we fail to hear His direction. We need to be quiet and seek His direction through prayer and meditation in His words. Another way is to take what our new stance says and place it beside scripture in its fullness, not just the few verses we have taken to create this new understanding. Be a Berean! Still another would be to seek counsel from elders. The more feedback you get, the more eyes see and critique. Berean? I am not familiar with that term...can you...enlighten me please? God's word is important just want to make sure that my own understanding is not the central core of what I believe...and that it is indeed God speaking to me. Been given a lot of labels lately because of my beliefs and just want to make sure that I am really on God's side. Also want to walk better in faith. May God Bless You Dani

Onelight, You are bringing out some very interesting points...how does one know though? How do we know when the understanding of scripture is not our own?

Did I promote another forum? If so....I am sorry. I do not recall doing such. Still feeling a lot like everything I do is pointless...especially when I fail. The edit by Mizzdy was to what John wrote, not what you wrote. Okay just making sure, if I am in error want to fix it.

Carebear, Thank you very much for your insight. You make a good, strong valid point. Teaching my little ones about God is important and that is something I would and will not regret doing. May God Bless You Dani

Jesus during His life, teachings, and ministry mentions in particular children. Especailly in reference to faith: Matthew 18:1-6 1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Those that were with Him, were even cautioned that to not be like a child...or more or less to offend these small blessings would be better off dead. What does it mean to have such faith? Are we encouraged to be eager to learn and try to be humbled, or at least accepting of fault and learn from such as we grow? Thoughts? Please try to support answers with scripture, if possible.... Thanks.... May God Bless You Dani

Did I promote another forum? If so....I am sorry. I do not recall doing such. Still feeling a lot like everything I do is pointless...especially when I fail.

Scripture says this: 1 Timothy 2:11-15 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." So yes, it does say that women should not teach or usurp the authority of man. It does not say that man is perfect or infallible, but it does say that women first through Eve were deceived and should not teach on account of this. I do not think anyone meant to imply or did truly imply that man was perfect or infallible in teaching. Rather they like me, were standing up for what scripture says. That...simply being that a woman is not to lead... Her role does seem rather limited in the church, but then to me...there is no greater honor for a woman than to lead her own children to God. For after all, if no one teaches the future generation the truth of God, the Gospel, and about their Lord and Savior....what hope have we for the future? Really have nothing more to offer to this conversation. So I am going to back out. Hope this answers your question. May God Bless You Dani

What does it mean to be made in God's image...? Probably will come out sounding like a raving lunatic...but... Have understood it in terms like these: The compassion we show to those in need such as giving a neighbor a place to sleep when natural disaster has robbed him/her of a home just as God has ever provided His children their needs, if only they seek Him and place their faith in Him. The forgiveness we give to those who wrong us, much as Jesus forgave those who put Him there....saying "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do." There is much more I could likely add to this......but will refrain. May God Bless You Dani

Is that what the Word of God states in 1Ti 2:12-15? no. God's word does not in any way state that man is incapable of screwing it up. God's word is inerrant. we, as christians, are to be as the bereans were and search the scriptures to make sure that what any man preaches is actually correct. so while 1 t 2:14 does reference woman first being deceived, that should NEVER be misconstrued to say that men are incapable of being deceived. That was not said. Where did you get that from? Sorry but it is hard not to take offense.....words are continuously being put in mouths that were never said. NOWHERE was it said that men were incapable of being decieved. Scripture was merely being quoted so as to explain why women were not placed in that role..... not going to argue anymore... do not want to, and just can see that there is not going to be full agreement here which is understandable. This conversation is all yours and for those who remain... May God Bless You Dani

I am sorry I ask so much patience from all of you.... This topic is real hard for me. As I do feel that a great deal of the bible should be considered. A lot more of it, in fact than is in this present day and age. I am no saint, and have struggles with keeping things as simple as the ten commandments....cannot lie to anyone there. I struggle about as much, if not, more so than the next person. Just it is hard for me to grasp... I know that concepts like an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth have passed away with the coming of Jesus Christ and His lessons of love and forgiveness. It is other things like our roles as God's servants, forgiveness, and sin itself that tend to get me confused. Because Jesus forgives us, is it okay if we sin? If not, why do so many of us use that excuse? My apologies once again, I am just at a loss.... May God Bless You Dani

No, it is not scriptural. The entire body of scripture attests to women who lead. Paul saw to it that women led, also. As Paul installed women as leaders in the church, then those who claim that they cannot lead need to revisit things and learn about context, or forever go around teaching that Paul is a hypocrite, speaking against something he fully was for. So the verses I have quoted are hogwash? .....Yes, done here... for everything I have shared has been backed up with scripture. Yet when I ask for scripture to counter it, there is no backing.

Selective? I looked this up with the intent of learning what scripture said about our church leaders and what they should be. Worldly views today are that anyone can preach. I have given such examples of worldly preachers in a previous post here within this thread. For if we are going to go into the worldly credentials, there is no limitation to who can preach. It also will not matter in the world's eyes if the one who leads the church is living an open life of sin and thus just talking the talk and not walking the walk.... If there is anything to be appaulled at, it is that. Done kicking a dead horse here....just going to have to agree to disagree.

They were the only ones deceived! Adam did it full well knowing his rebellion against God! 1 Tim 2:13-15 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. NKJV fulfilling the greatness of Our God sending His Son through the woman to redeem all mankind! Thus that which being weaker becomes the avenue of The Greater .... Praise God for His Wisdom shared to us in this! Love, Steven

Gary, You offer interesting insight. Perhaps what you are saying here is that so long as a church leader adheres and follows after the word of God, not only teaching it but strives to live it, we will see the fruit of his or her work in the spirit? Yes? Times we need to concern ourselves with leadership of the flock would more or less be likely in these kind of situations below: A female pastor who runs the church but also openly is married to another woman and lives as an active homosexual. A male pastor who preaches give, give, give but takes from the very same offitory that is supposed to be given to God's work and the church. These are examples that are or have gone on in my area..... Just want to see if I understand you.... sometimes, people have to spell things out for me. Thank you though, very much, for your response here. It is most insightful. May God Bless You Dani

It does. Thank you for taking the time to reply Nebula. Have a lot to think about.....do not want to become a zealot, just as I hope not to compromise my faith. Thanks again. May God Bless You Dani

More emotional and can be swayed because of this? What Scripture spells that statement out for you? 2 Chron 7:14 If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. We have turned from His ways and supplanted our own so the opposite is happening. Our land is sick! We are not humble because we think we know better than what His word plainly says. 2 Chron 7:14 doesn't address my question in ANY way. I asked you about this statement from your former post..... "Women are different than men. They are more emotional creatures and can be swayed because of this." Again....what Scripture backs up your comment? No I do not have scripture for that comment. Then what did you mean by this sentence? "God laid it out in 1 Timothy 2 and other places the order of things in the Church. He also explained the reasoning. Women are different than men. They are more emotional creatures and can be swayed because of this." You wrote that God explained His reasoning about women. So, is that just your own opinion or did God actually make the explanation? Verses 13 and 14 were the reasoning behind verse 12. I said I did not have verses to back up my emotional differences. (which is what you put in quotes) Okay, I understand now. One thing I do wish everyone would quit doing though is painting an entire group with the same brush....in this case, a whole gender! Not being critical of you, women do it too and it's used in social, political and racial contexts as well. ALL women are definitely NOT emotional and easily swayed just as all men are not strong and emotionally stalwart. Just quoting scripture. Bible says women are not to be pastors or leaders. It shares reason for that. That being they were the first decieved.

During participating in some rather intense discussion, a question formed within my mind. It is one too that has not yet been answered. The question I have here is this: How much of the Bible are we actually supposed to follow? So much of the manner in which thought was had in the Old Testament has in essence, changed within the New Testament. By no means, am I meaning to imply that God's word contradicts itself, for no, it does not. Rather it is simply a matter of understanding how certain practices came to change. Such as that of the forgiveness of sin in place of retribution for the practice of sin. I am seeking thoughts here because I hope to understand better how to walk in the faith as well as live it, and not just simply speak it. I pray I can understand the guidance as well as any sciptural reference that is given.... May God Bless You Dani

That is tradition and religion speaking. Mothers and wives provide, and husbands and fathers nurture. Okay...so because I go off of what the Bible says I am going off tradition and religion? I am really confused here...are we only to obey bits and pieces of the Bible?

1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. Ecclesiastes 9:9 Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that he has given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun. Just as women are told not to teach because of their being decieved first in the garden of Eden.... could men not be refered to as the providers due to what God originally spoke to Adam? Genesis 3:17-19 New International Version (NIV) 17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” Could this not apply to all men that followed after Adam? That because of his following after Eve in the act of being decieved that his role was to sweat and toil to provide for her? Just as men are to toil and work to provide for their loved ones? Unless I am misunderstanding....it seems again there are certain roles expected us. Man as the protector and provider, woman as the mother and nurturer. If I am wrong in terms of what God's word teaches, please show me.

how did you find this out? Also, do you believe that there were female rabbi's? When you study, you learn. We are called to pastor others. It is also a spiritual gifting. and as Holy Spirit doesn't check the gender before issuing His gifts, we know that women and men are equally able to function in the gift of pastor. Phoebe, as a 'diakonos' would have functioned as a pastor in the church at Cenchrae. As for rabbis, I doubt that there were females given that title, as they were not given the education that males were, nor considered worthy to it, because of the culture. Jesus came and changed all that. He is the great equalizer. If this is the case....can I ask then.... Is it scripturally sound for a woman to be the provider in the family? Maybe I am going to be seen as nothing short of old fashioned, but the Bible itself says that a HUSBAND'S role is the provider. Or is that something that is out of trend because the times have changed? If we use the arguement that times have changed for everything...then it could be applied to condone a lot of the practices that scripture stands against today such as abortion, divorce, gay marriage, etc.

Gary, That boy is beautiful! A living miracle too. Thank you for sharing with me. My boy has not endured half of that. Though I have a younger sister who has managed time and time again to escape open heart surgery with her narrowing heart valves I pray that if that day ever comes she makes it. Though like your sweet boy there, she gets her food from a tube in her tummy as well and has for many years now. William Syndrome is still rather new to so many who hear of it....they look at me and go what? Jesus likely did have it very hard living with people who did not understand him. Think we all could use a gentle reminder like that from time to time. Thank you so much for sharing. Your insight is much appreciated. May God Bless You Dani

Oh yes it does. Ephesians 5 spells it out very clearly. 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. Our marriages should reflect Christ love for us to the world. Everything we do should reflect as a testimony for Him. If we as husbands or wives not do what is listed below, how are we suppose to love our enemies. All things, when completed according to scripture are to point toward Christ. He is the beginning and the end. ALL things were made by Him and for Him. My giving my husband due respect as scripture instructs me has no bearing on my position should I take on a pastoring position in my church...which I have done in the past. Women pastoring is not about giving due respect to their husbands. It's about the order established by God at creation that women are not to have a position of spiritual authority over men (1Ti 2:12-14), as does a pastor/teacher. You assume that chronological order in Creation has something to do with rank in the Body of Christ. There isn't any such thing. I don't assume anything. I believe in the authority of Paul, given to him by special call from Jesus (Ac 9:15), to be the foundation of the church (Eph 2:20) as an apostle (Ro 1:1; 1Co 1:1; 2Co 1:1; Gal 1:1; Eph 1:1; Col 1:1; 1Ti; 2Ti 1:1; Tit) with apostolic authority, and in the revelation given to him by Jesus (Gal 1:11-12; 1Co 12:1-4, 7; Eph 3:2-3), which the NT Word of God states: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man" (1Ti 1:12), because of the permanent order established by God at creation (1Ti 2:13), and because of her deception (1Ti 2:14). I choose to believe and obey the Word of God which abides forever. Agree and scripture makes that clear. Just have to pray that those who do not see that come to in time. This verse has been quoted over and over....and it is just not sinking in.

In an effort to inject a bit of humor here: “You can choose your friends but you sho' can't choose your family, an' they're still kin to you no matter whether you acknowledge 'em or not, and it makes you look right silly when you don't.” ― Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird I am sorry that you are in a situation where you cannot comfortably seek assistance from either side of your family. That's a real shame, as I fully believe that families ought to be something of a unit - within reason of course - where they provide all the support and assistance they can for each other. But as you have said, you absolutely must do what is best for your children, so I can only applaud you for not placing them in a situation that you feel is potentially risky. I have little family left, on either side, and so while our situations are dramatically different, I do understand the sense of loneliness that can come from being unable to depend upon your family to simply "be there" to support you. No doubt that God makes it plain that once we are married, we are to become one with our spouses and place that "family" unit above our extended family, but I do still believe that our parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, all of our family are meant to be a unit that can offer mutual love, support, and encouragement. Before my mother's death, this was precisely how my family functioned for the most part. Losing her, however, was a bit like losing the lynchpin that held us all together. After she was gone, it was just so easy for everyone to get caught up in their own lives and drift apart. Very sad. Not to mention that my mother was often the "voice of reason" in our family and without her there, things got... complicated for lack of a better word. But I'm rambling. (I do that a lot. Love to chase those rabbits. ) Mostly, I just want to offer you encouragement and support. We all need that from time to time. Plus, you just have such a sweet spirit. Makes me smile. God bless you and your precious family.