lesjude

Thanks for your thoughts lesjude. Sorry the thread got a little off track… Legalism to me seems to focus more on fear than grace. I agree the length of a woman’s hair, skirts, pants, makeup are distractions from having further deeper fellowship with God. God is truly more concerned about our attitude (loving or selfish? Mercy not sacrifice?) towards others. Not that God isn’t interested in modesty, etc. Would you agree? You are welcome. I agree. The the root of sin is not moral or immoral behavior. Many sinners do have moral behavior but are sinners still. The essence of sin is insisting on the right to self i.e. to control our own lives. This can be glossed over with a veneer of "religiousity" but Jesus gives no assurance of salvation to those who continue to live doing what is right in their own sight. This applies to both legalists, and those that refuse Holy Spirit training in the core principles of relationship to God and all people (Matthew 5, 6, and 7) who Jesus calls "lawless". It is interesting that there are 2 words for child in the Greek. Texton which stresses the idea of birth or the "born again" believer and huios which emphasizes the dignity of the relationship and likeness of character between the parent and the son or daughter. Here is an example: Matthew 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God. Huios In other words not just children by birth but mature sons. Again: Matthew 5:43-48 New King James Version (NKJV) Love Your Enemies 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[b]45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren[c] only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[d] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Sons (huios) above is again speaking of the likeness between the Father and His perfect, meaning mature, sons/daughters. Also note that it says God is already their father meaning they are His children by birth, but will desire to love their enemies and be like their Father because they are His born again children, not to be saved or stay saved. My point about legalism is that the doctrines and traditions of men have perverted Matthew 5:43-48 as well as the rest of Matthew 5, 6 and 7 preventing children from becoming mature sons. Further they have taken the clear command of Jesus to all disciples in Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:8 concerning the Acts 2:4 experiernce and made it of no effect, (Matthew 15:7-9 legalism), by their teachings that tongues are not for today, this experience is optional, tongues are of the devil, it is not a separate experience, etc. Without this power of the indwelling Holy Spirit it is very difficult to rightly apply or even live the principles of Matthew 5, 6, and 7. As a result children are severely handicapped in becoming mature sons and daughters. Another apparent result is that there is little or no agreement on what Matthew 5, 6 and 7 mean or how to apply these principles. That is one function of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Does anyone wonder why there is very little agreement on the elementary principles of the faith mentioned in Hebrews 6:1-3? Mostly for the same reason. Here are some qualities of sons as opposed to children: They are friends, the word is huios, of Jesus: Luke 5:34. They act consistently in Hebrews 11 faith as Abraham did: Galations 3:7 Manifest positive character: Acts 4:36 and submit to Holy Spirit training in it: Romans 5:1-5 Live a separated life from the world: 2 Corinthians 6:17-18 through 7:1 Are transparent in their dealings with others: Luke 16:8 By faith in the Light (Jesus/His word) are becoming sons: John 12:36 Recognize and recieve and other sons: Luke 10:6 Sons are submitting not resisting the process: Hebrews 2:10 and Hebrews 12:7-8. One of the sources and roots of legalism is trying to develop and live the maturity mentioined above without the Acts 2:4 experience. The result is lawlessness becuse people often just give up.

Here is Christ's explanation of "legalism": Matthew 15:3-9 New King James Version (NKJV) 3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; [a] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’[b]5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’[c] Thus you have made the commandment[d] of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And[e] honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ” The length of a woman's hair, skirts or pants, makeup, etc are real issues but distractions from what Jesus says are the legalisms that prevent His disciples from having a mature Biblical relationship with Him. The Bible makes a sharp distinction between a child of God by the new birth, and a mature son/daugthter. These legalisms prevent the child from maturing.

Jesus loved John enough to train him and empower him to go out and demonstrate the Kingdom Of God and the heart of the Father just as He had done. Loving people is giving them what we have freely received and what a lost and dying world needs just as Jesus did over and over. People do not need sympathy. They need a Jesus that works from our hearts of compassion which is exactly what Jesus did, and told disciples to do. Here is the scripture: Matthew 10:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead,[a] cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. We have friends and family members who get to do and see the above quite frequently. We are going to see more ourselves. It was only the religious people who opposed these things in Jesus' time. Please note Jesus does not say preach a denomination or 'non-denomination' but the Kingdom. It seems Christians do not know what this means. The church is in the kingdom but is not the Kingdom. "Freely" is important to note as well. Jesus was so concerned about finances that he put a thief in charge of the money bag. The Bible says that denominations are carnal Christianity. 1 Corinthians 1:10-17, 1 Corinthians 3:1-4, and of course Matthew 17:4-5 (good old Peter)It seems he could be counted on for the "straight lines". Here is another scripture to go with the above: John 14:12 New King James Version (NKJV) 12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. I am not quite sure why Christians do not want to do these things. It is His will not ours, we serve Him He doesnt serve us. The Bible says it is His will and says "those who believe" will heal and cast out demons plus John 14:12. Jesus demonstrated it over and over. No, we are not His servants but His friends IF we do as He commands and we believe and DO what He has made known to us. What part of Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8 is not clear? John 15:14-15 New King James Version (NKJV) 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. Here are some more requirements needful to be Jesus' friend that He "has made known". Note it does not say be a church member, sing in the choir, give 10%, or teach "Sunday School". Matthew 7:21-24 New King James Version (NKJV) I Never Knew You 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: Jesus of course is referring to Matthew 5, 6, and 7.

r The believer still has to make a choice today to think according to the knowledge of "good anf evil" or with a renewed mind by the Holy Spirit washing of the water of the word. It is "good" to fight and kill in a "just" war and bad not to. iI is "good" to swear an oath to a government institution and evil to refuse to. It is good to borrow money for needs and bad not to. It is good to trust the arm of the flesh and bad (foolish) not to. It is good to insure life and property and bad not to. The above are all examples of thinking by the fruit of the wrong tree just as unregenerates do. But believers do this: Romans 12:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV) Living Sacrifices to God 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

[media=] "Is it true today that when people pray Cloudless skies will break Kings and queens will shake Yes it's true and I believe it I'm living for you Is it true today that when people pray We'll see dead men rise And the blind set free Yes it's true and I believe it I'm living for you I'm gonna be a history maker in this land I'm gonna be a speaker of truth to all mankind I'm gonna stand, I'm gonna run Into your arms, into your arms again Into your arms, into your arms again Well it's true today that when people stand With the fire of God, and the truth in hand We'll see miracles, we'll see angels sing We'll see broken hearts making history Yes it's true and I believe it We're living for you" http://www.heavenvisit.com

Excellent Post. Jesus bled and died for the freedom of Christians. One of those freedoms is to be citizens in His kingdom which entitles us to His protection at all times. Please see Psalm 91. He also sets us free from worshiping a false religion, nationalism. He gives us the right and authority to be sons and daughters of the King by adoption which includes being conformed to the fullness and stature of Christ. Who would Jesus shoot or have His citizens shoot.?

Nonresistance is perhaps the hardest thing to receive in the Bible. It is understandable because people are programed their whole lives to think the opposite. Nationalism/patriotism may be one of the strongest principalities in the spirit world. It is also because Christians do not understand who they are in Christ and what kingdom they are citizens of. We have the power in us that raises the dead, but act like we need to fear and use carnal weapons rather than do what Jesus says to do in Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8. These are the things that Jesus and the original disciples did that turned their world upside down. I would be no different today if.... Oh well maybe in another 2000 years? The King is waiting on His people to prepare the way just as John the Baptist did before His first coming. Jesus has done already ALL He is going to do. It is our turn to do what He says the way He says to do it by the power of the Holy Spirit. No, I do NOT believe in dominion theology.

Hermann Göring at the Nuremberg Trials said this. Are you equating the US to Nazi Germany? No, but the principle fits all the US wars ever fought. You might want to do your own research. The easy ones are Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The rest you will have to dig some but you will find it. I spent 5 years preparing to teach US and European Culture and 22 years doing it in a public high school. That is absolutely frightening. I pray it wasn't in MD although I wouldn't doubt it. I will tell you what is my concern. The educational system is "dumbing" the students down. When I taught I used original sources and the historical method to teach students to think, analyze, question, evaluate, and use evidence to support their conclusions with what I had available. Now it has gone back to memorizing names, dates, places, and set "answers". There is little or no thinking or questioning. Teachers now must teach for the test and no more so then in the state I live in. It is very clear what the students are being prepared for. Jesus showed me to leave teaching so I did. He clearly revealed the system was turning the hearts of the students away from Him, their parents, and I was taking the wages of a harlot. Jesus did not let me see the LIES, half truths and "spun" facts I was teaching until later. It is quite ugly.

Your take on Matthew 5 is incorrect. If you are going to say that God advocates pacifism, you are going to have to explain why He has had Israel, at times, destroy entire nations of people. There is no such thing as a "Holy War" waged by a country. The United States has not been involved in a just war since WW II, however, you can't throw a blanket over the whole thing and car it wrong. This subject has been debated by people for centuries and pacifism is not advocated in the Bible when a nation is unjustly attacked. I take it you believe our armed forces to be criminals? Please reread the initial post as it explains the wars in the OT and God's attitude even toward King David. Preemptive aggressive war is an international war crime. It is one crime the Nazis were tried, convicted and hung for. As long as a nation wins or is strong enough they can do as they wish and do, because they can do as they wish. Christians are to be transformed by the renewing of their minds into the stature and fullness of Christ. Who would Jesus kill in one of the nation's carnal wars? Would He approve of a citizen of His Kingdom doing the same? He made this very clear to His disciples. You would be surprised who said this. He is long dead but his statement is true for all the wars the US ever fought. "Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." 1. The last statement was from Adolf Hitler. 2. Jesus told a Roman occupier that he wasn't doing anything wrong, only that he should conduct himself properly and not use his authority as a reason to shakedown people for money. That man was a soldier. 3. While aggressive wars are wrong, projecting military power onto an enemy who attacks your country is NOT. The Japanese attacked us in WW2. We beat their rear ends and my father helped and I am as proud of his actions as I can be. Korea was something necessary to prevent the spread of evil. Vietnam was the same. Communism was and IS evil. 4. You sound like Tony Campolo who quite frankly is full of baloney too. You might be a believer, and you might not, but spare us the hooey. It's NOT going to work here. 1. No, it was not. However the thesis is true for every US war. 2.It was John the Baptist who told the soldiers that. He did not have the revelation of Matthew 5, 6, and 7. In fact he ended up losing the revelation of who Christ was along with his head. Every Christian should understand how that could happen. Jesus did heal the centurion's servant because compassion is His nature and He honors faith. It is not because He approved of his occupation. Further the centurion did not have the light we have been given, and the Acts 2:4 experience that gives us the power to live Matthew 5, 6, and 7 i.e. nonresistance in this case. NEVER assume that because Jesus blesses you or anyone that He approves of all that you/they think and do. Many ministers/ministries have fallen because of that assumption. Solomon is an excellent Bible example. 3. I suggest you look into the reasons Japan did attack. That attack was known in advance, a "false flag incident" (i.e. weapons of mass destruction, Iraq). It is the same pattern for all US wars if you are willing to do the research. My father and his brother served in WWII. My uncle did time in places called Tarawa, Saipan and Okinawa as a Marine. He NEVER was the same EVER again. What a tragic waste and so very sad. As long as Christians believe the myths (lies widely believed to be true) they will continue to support carnal wars by worshiping in the false religion of nationalism. They will never realize the power they have in Christ to change the world one soul at a time. Please see Mark 16:17-18. It seems they would rather kill them, hate them, fear them, or sit in church. This is the heart of Jesus? 4. No, thank you very much, I am filled with the Holy Spirit as it says in Acts 2:4. How about you?

If God had intended that no killing would take place on this fallen earth He would not have allowed stonings, wars, etc. Certainly He does not want us to kill anyone yet He has given us over to our fallen govts and we live by those rules. If a person is standing on His truths what can man do to them that God cannot undo, remember it is not man we should be wary of it is God who can kill both body and soul. These passages are not talking about wars but four main areas where we should trust in God and not man, if we were standing firm on His word we would know automatically that we should not seek our own personal justices or vindication that is for God alone. We are shown four ways to nonresistance but if we go by your model we all would be naked and poor with no home, no food. Do you honestly think that is what God is showing us here? If a believer is being taken to court and that believer knows that he has done no wrong then go that extra distance with whoever wants to take things from you in the end he will be found out if not by man then God knows and will deal with it. In the end these passage are about the behavior of the believer and how they are seen handling Gods instructions and those who wish to do us harm. They are about behavior that we should always remember to keep in mind after all we are not of this world and our walk should reflect that. If we are truly walking with Him and our lives reflect that then the only reasons people would have for doing any of these things is because satan is jealous and wants what God has and has come to try and tear us down by attacking the very things the most people hold dear, money and themselves. We need to examine our value systems, our walk with Him and stay away from self serving actions such as hitting someone who hits you without first thinking or better yet asking the person why and trying to come to a conclusion. After all if we belong to Him who is being insulted, who is being sued, is it our own honor and glory we seek or is it His? shalom, Mizz No snowflake in an avalanche feels responsible.

Hermann Göring at the Nuremberg Trials said this. Are you equating the US to Nazi Germany? No, but the principle fits all the US wars ever fought. You might want to do your own research. The easy ones are Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The rest you will have to dig some but you will find it. I spent 5 years preparing to teach US and European Culture and 22 years doing it in a public high school.

No, they are an embarrassment to Christianity. I pray for the preservation of the lives on both sides, and Godly wisdom to end the killing for leaders such as President Obama. I have read of MANY examples of the preservation of God's people in combat, even when unsaved. Examples are Kenny Wayne Fields, Louis Zamperini in Devil At MY Heels and Unbroken, Eugene B Sledge, Marcus Luttrell to name just a few you may know. What God did for them will amaze anyone. Does this mean He approves of what they do? No. God is good, loving and merciful. Is that like, I didn't know the gun was loaded, and I'm so sorry my friend. I didn't know the gun was loaded, and I'll never ever do it again? Or maybe, Once the rockets are up who cares where they come down. It's not my department says Werner Von Brown? If you have ever read Sergeant York's story, a Christian, you will see what he did was just cold blooded murder. You will also see the result of this on the rest of his life. It is also an excellent chance he was shooting Christians. EVERY war the US ever fought in it was nominal Christians killing nominal Christians. The exceptions are the more recent wars seen by many Christians as the crusades were. These things are the heart of Jesus? Audie Murphy's life is another example of the results of killing in WWII. He was not a professing Christian as far as I know.

Your take on Matthew 5 is incorrect. If you are going to say that God advocates pacifism, you are going to have to explain why He has had Israel, at times, destroy entire nations of people. There is no such thing as a "Holy War" waged by a country. The United States has not been involved in a just war since WW II, however, you can't throw a blanket over the whole thing and car it wrong. This subject has been debated by people for centuries and pacifism is not advocated in the Bible when a nation is unjustly attacked. I take it you believe our armed forces to be criminals? Please reread the initial post as it explains the wars in the OT and God's attitude even toward King David. Preemptive aggressive war is an international war crime. It is one crime the Nazis were tried, convicted and hung for. As long as a nation wins or is strong enough they can do as they wish and do, because they can do as they wish. Christians are to be transformed by the renewing of their minds into the stature and fullness of Christ. Who would Jesus kill in one of the nation's carnal wars? Would He approve of a citizen of His Kingdom doing the same? He made this very clear to His disciples. You would be surprised who said this. He is long dead but his statement is true for all the wars the US ever fought. "Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

The Legal Drug Cult(ure) and the Christian My purpose in this post is to get you to look at the drug cult(ure) from a Biblical point of view. I do not intend to condemn anyone. The high priests and practitioners of the drug cult do not want the 'lay' people to know these things. Do not stop taking medicine until you have faith for healing on the basis of God's word. Isaiah 53:4-5 with Matthew 8:16-17, Psalms 103:1-5, 1 Peter 2:24 and MANY more. I recently received these notes from a Christian who had taken this university course on medical drugs from a recognized expert in the field. This insistution is a well known national research university. Below is my friend's introduction/explanation and then the verbatim notes. "Here are my notes from the first day of "Drugs & the Brain." Dr._______ doesn't require a textbook because she is one. All her exams are straight from her lectures and, knowing this, I used a digital voice recorder, then transcribed each lecture into my computer, and so what I've written is word-for-word." January 23, 2006 - Lecture 1 - Introduction to Pharmacology Neuropsychopharmacology – this is what Dr. ______ is – her PhD is in pharmacology – and Neuropsychopharmacology is a better name for this course than “Drugs and the Brain.” The transcribed notes begin Pharmacology comes from the Greek word, pharmakon. Pharmacology is the study of drugs. How do they work? What is the mechanism of action? Such as, why does Prozac make you feel better? Why does LSD make you hallucinate? What are their side effects? What is their history? Pharmakon = “Magical Poison”: In Greek, it means “magical poison”; this is a concept that we’ll see all through the course. “Magical Poison” = Pharmakon: Drugs are good, magical, and beneficial but they are all poisons – there is not a drug that won’t kill you – if you take enough of it, it will kill you. Magical poison is important in how drugs are designed, in how doctors use drugs, etc. – they are curing someone without killing them. (END OF NOTES) Here is what the Bible says about the same term Pharmakon/pharmakia which is translated as sorcery. Acts 8:9-13 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great, 10 to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the great power of God.” 11 And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done. The same word is used in Revelations 9:21, 18:23. In the Greek Septuagint in Ex. 7:11, 22; 8:7, 18 Isaiah 47: 9, 12. No where in the Bible is this word EVER used in a positive way that would suggest a believer should be using this magical poison. All drugs, by definition, are poison and harm the human body no matter how small the dosage, even aspirin. Most drugs 'cure' nothing but mask the symptoms, allowing the person to live with the disease, and become drug dependent. All drugs have side effects, many of which those that take them are not aware of, or find out too late. It is a VERY costly way to be poisoned when Jesus provides healing free of charge with no side affects. Below are more notes from the college course that explain how those that develop and use this magical poison arrive at what is 'safe'. January 25, 2006 - Lecture 2 - Introduction to Pharmacology Therapeutic Index – Pharmacologists do Log-Dose Response Curves to get a mechanism of action to find out if the drug is an agonist or antagonist, if the lines parallel (same receptor), and another reason is to get a safety profile - how much good does the drug do before it accidentally kills you? The lethal curve is compared to the effective curve and that is the Therapeutic Index. The dose that kills 50% of people over the dose that works in 50% of people. It has to be 10 or the drug cannot be marketed. They don’t want you accidentally taking 3 or 4 and then dying, like people did with some barbiturates way back in the 1970s. Alcohol has a therapeutic index of less than 10 – it is very lethal. They don’t want dosing errors. Another reason you need to have a therapeutic index is all drugs are made for a man that weighs 150 lbs. – all drugs are designed for men at that weight. So if you are female, a child, elderly, etc., the dose must be carefully administered – these biological differences (size, age, weight) really matter or one can overdose. Another thing you have to take into consideration, particularly a drug working on the mind, is the placebo effect. Placebo Effect: Placebo (sugar pill) is an inactive substance; it has no drug in it. Drugs are compared against a placebo – what you think will make you better. It’s in your mind. It is a powerful force working on the mind when you take a pill. Antidepressants, pain medication and anti-anxiety drugs have to be compared to a placebo. Your mind wants to get better – and it is powerful. You will get better with a placebo that’s injected instead of a pill, and a red capsule rather than a white pill. Or if someone in the Mayo Clinic gives it to you rather than someone in a community hospital. There are a few mental conditions for which this is not true – there is no placebo response with schizophrenia or OCD. But depression, pain, and anxiety have a big placebo response. (END OF NOTES) It is apparent that they experiment on guess who? Even after they have 'experimented' it is still hit and miss guess work to a large extent as to dosage and which magical poison to use. People suffer irreversible damage and death all too often. This in NOT TRUE SCIENCE! Here are the questions a Christian has to answer: 1. If the Bible presents drugs as magical poison, a leading expert concurs, and those that received salvation saw their true nature in Acts 8:9-13 what should be the position of believers today? 2. Even if one thinks that those that prescribe and develop magical poison have nothing to do with the occult should the believer take them in light of this scripture or learn to trust Jesus? Corinthians 3:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV) 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 3. What is the motivation of those that use cult brain washing techniques of mass media to persuade people that the true source of life, health and healing is found in magical poison (drugs)? What is God's opinion on this? 4. How does Jesus feel about Christians that join the drug cult after He died a terribly death to provide physical healing with no drugs? (Jesus does give grace and mercy) 5. Do legal or illegal drugs kill more people in the US per annum?

The principle of Mat 5:38-48 is nonresistance toward all. No killing or wounding or returning evil by a Christian. This is what father God had always intended in the old and new testaments. Gen. 4:7-8: Cain made the wrong sacrifice which opened the door to sin of hatred, jealousy and finally killing. The sacrifice Christians are to make is in Ro. 12:1-2. When they do not do this and yield to the Holy Spirit training as to what this means they will do what is right in their own sight. This often results in operating in expediency (armed guards in churches) which is operating on the knowledge of good and evil not Life. Note what Jesus says in Mat 26:52. The disciples surely had a reason to wound and kill to defend each other and Jesus. The antichrist is killing saints and they are to follow nonresistance in Rev 13:7-10 Gen 4: 23-24 tells of a killing for a wounding and possibly to save his own life. He indicates he realizes this was wrong with the statement he makes about Cain in vs 24. In Gen 8:6-7 is a clear statement on killing. The exception being capital punishment (Old and New testaments) and the OT wars of His judgments on nations whose cup of iniquity was full. The Bible in Acts 17:25-27 speaks of all being one blood. God's heart at this time is that men be saved not killed or injured, especially not by carnal Christians defending themselves or others. King David is a type of Christ and was called by God a man after His own heart. However, Father God told him he could not build the temple because he had shed much blood on the earth in His sight. Even though these were nations under judgment in wars God had directed. Here is what God said to King David: I Chron. 22:7-8 and I Chron. 28:3. Jesus view of "just" wars and physical violence is in Luke 9:51-56. The disciples did not know what spirit they were of! They thought they had a "good" and Biblical response (see Elisha). Christians who either do not have the Holy Spirit or do not submit to His training in this area end up using 'expediency' or OT justifications for their violence which there is none there either. Every non believer that a Christian kills ends up in the pit which was the point of what Jesus said in Luke 9:55-56. Then after you wound them, or talk to the ones who are left that are not killed, it makes it hard to tell them about the love of the Lord. Some justify war by saying the US is a Christian nation. There is no such thing. There are nations with the King's citizens in them being salt and light, not acting like the world and serving its Godless systems or relying on the expediency of armed guards in churches. At this point some anecdotal evidence is in order. Nate Saint and those with him who died rather than defend themselves or each other is an example. I will say they were told by leadership not to go and may be the reason for no Divine protection. On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman has some good points. After the battle of Gettysburg (the South lost) 100's of rifles were gathered up from the battlefield. Many were double and triple loaded. The reluctance to kill with an individual weapon seemed to be the reason. To cover their reluctance they did not fire but "reloaded". He goes on with more evidence throughout history to support the point, and the ways the military and our society has overcome this God given reluctance to kill. Also he establishes the killing as the cause of PTSD. His ways to overcome this are junk but his evidence is compelling. This is sowing and reaping for violation of God:s laws. PTSD is easily overcome by repentance and deliverance. How an airborne ranger and Delta force operator got set free by Jesus when we had the privilege of ministering deliverance to him is an interesting story. General S. L. A. Marshall makes the point with his unique method of interviewing WW II, Korean War and Vietnam soldiers right after close combat. He interviewed the handful of survivors of Able CO. that hit the Dog Green on Omaha Beach. He talked with about 20 of over 200 not killed or wounded. It was the beach that Saving Private Ryan tried to show at the start of the film. He discovered a very high percentage that did not fire their personal weapons then, and in all these wars except Vietnam. By then the military had devised training to partially overcome the God given resistance to killing. In Vietnam one platoon of less than 30 men stood off a force of 200 very determined NVA all night with no artillery and some of the time with no illumination. Near the end, having very little ammo left, knowing they were as good as dead they just all started laughing! Captured NVA later said this really affected their morale. I think the US troops had the resistance to killing removed and the NVA didn't. This platoon was mostly just a reg. bunch of draftees that had not even seen the elephant yet. This training is so effective, along with the conditioning to violence that our society provides, that troops will assault immediately when ambushed by a superior well protected force and win! In training the same men thought to themselves, never will I do this! The other force probably still had that bothersome inhibition. The US Marines seem to be most open and perhaps best at this. They tell all their 'boots' that they will make them into trained killers! The US Army does the same.