thomas t

That is not the way the Bible or Theology works. God does not use a single verse to tell us things, that would be a weak way that offers no support. Theological concepts are composed of multiple passage all supporting one another not unlike the steel girders in a bridge. People who ask for a single verse proving something from the Bible either do not understand the Bible or the know it can be done and that is why they ask. Hello Davis, well there are instances in which Jesus used single Bible verses and expanded on it. Thomas Welcome back Thomas T. Haven't seen you in a while. One Bible verse? Okay. I suppose we can start there. 1 John 3:19-20 19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before Him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and He knows everything. There are others... God bless, GE Hello Jon, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I also appreciate you accepted the small challenge. However, taking into consideration that your verse starts with a condition - "whenever" - I think that it does not show that God indeed knows everything. Furthermore, I think that perfect knowledge could eventually leave out unimportant parts. If you have perfect knowledge about a TV show, does that imply that you know everything out of it? Have a nice day Thomas Ok thomas, you brought the subject up. Now please prove to me that God does not know everything. Scripture would be good. Yes, Let's flip the coin here. I would love to see Scripture passages Thomas that say God does not know everything. God bless, GE Hello Jon, as I said to Fez, Jon, I wasn't saying that God did not know everything. My point is to find out if omniscience as declared in the OP is scripture or something less. Thomas

Hello Davis, what are you talking about in your answer to me? I did not prove a concept (which one do you mean?), neither did I then show why it is wrong to do anything. Davis, I want to be very clear that I did not deny any Bible verse here. I once had the same debate with others. Then a lady joined the debate giving 25 Bible verses and left it up to me to discuss them. The verses were all somehow related to the subject but, in my opinion, she failed to explain her point. That was quite a bunch of verses. So this time, I chose to say something up front. Thomas

Hello Fez, I didn't say that God does not know everything. I rather believe that he has the possibility to know everything. Have a good day Thomas

That is not the way the Bible or Theology works. God does not use a single verse to tell us things, that would be a weak way that offers no support. Theological concepts are composed of multiple passage all supporting one another not unlike the steel girders in a bridge. People who ask for a single verse proving something from the Bible either do not understand the Bible or the know it can be done and that is why they ask. Hello Davis, well there are instances in which Jesus used single Bible verses and expanded on it. Thomas Welcome back Thomas T. Haven't seen you in a while. One Bible verse? Okay. I suppose we can start there. 1 John 3:19-20 19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before Him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and He knows everything. There are others... God bless, GE Hello Jon, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I also appreciate you accepted the small challenge. However, taking into consideration that your verse starts with a condition - "whenever" - I think that it does not show that God indeed knows everything. Furthermore, I think that perfect knowledge could eventually leave out unimportant parts. If you have perfect knowledge about a TV show, does that imply that you know everything out of it? Have a nice day Thomas

Hello fellow posters, can anyone name a Bibleverse telling us that God is omniscient? Please try and find one and name it - for reasons of simplicity: could you please give just *one* verse telling us that God indeed knew everything? Thanks Thomas

Dear Alan, I don't have a personal agenda here. And I am wishing so much that one of the basic rules here at Worthy, which is "discuss the issue, not the person", could also be valid when it comes to my person, yes? Have a good day Thomas Hello Fez, well, in contrast to you, I find my answers polite. I don't think that they strech the ToS. How come that you came to this judgement ("curt")? Basically, things are allright with me. But, if I have to fear personal attacks, they probably will not... And yes, I do ask you to not be included in your we, thanks. It is not that I think I am better than you. It is just that you don't know my habits.... Have a good day, you, too.

[bolded mine] Please Nebula, stay real. I did not write any bullying or even inappropriate remarks. Look, this is what I wrote... Pay them more money. Who should pay who more money? Everybody of us complaining about amnesty not doing enough.... [...] Thomas So, what is not clear to you? Could you please clarify? Thomas

Hello morning glory. What is your perspective on what your company is doing in Nigeria? I just read this report http://www.amnesty.de/files/Niger_Delta_True_Tragedy_EMBARGOED10Nov.pdf It's true that while this report is mainly focused on what Shell is doing, it accuses the whole of the oil industry operating in this country of continuously violating human rights. Are you telling me that Halliburton is the only light among this priesthood of darkness? ... just a question, yes? And I hope you don't turn angry against me but keep to the style you have been adopting since I entered this site... Have a good day Thomas

It has nothing to do with oil and science, it has everything to do with greed. We perpetuate it by demanding cheaper sneakers, clothes, gas, etc, and turning a blind eye to what it takes to get our "stuff". [bolded mine] Please Fez, don't speak on my behalf in this issue, thank you. Thomas Ok no problem, but tell me, and this is not an attack on you, because it is how the world works, does the shirt you are wearing right now have a made in Germany tag? Britain? America? Mine says made in Korea, I just looked. Do you ask where the item you are wearing was made, and under what conditions? Since 2006, more than 500 people have been killed providing inexpensive clothing to American and European chain stores. This particular company, Tazreen Fashions, produce clothes for giant retailers such as Walmart. (109 people died in a "factory" fire because they were locked in) Who is the we Thomas? if not us? See, we are all in the same boat, and my point is if we buy products from these countries, and demand the cheaper gas, the answer to the question you posed, is Yes. And we do, so where does that leave us, short of just admitting we support human rights abuse, even if it seems to be in an oblique disassociated way. It doesn't say. I am wearing my favorite shirt right now, made of organic cotton, so the cotton farmers won't die of pesticide poisoning. I am hoping that the one who has shown concern for the environment and the health of the farmers won't have his shirt worn at a death mill. Yes the Tazreen story came to my attention. However, you are not knowing that I buy my chlothing at Walmart or the German equivalent called kik? They had recently a supplier having arranged things so horribly in their "factory" that the thing burned to the ground, as well. Everyone knows that you should not buy there. But still, people do it here. The post originally was about finding what Shell is going to turn into the fire of hell. I think, finding the wells to start with is quite crucial to what Shell is endevouring. Have a good evening in South Africa! Thomas

Hello fantastic chloe, I read your post with care and the following thought came to my mind: Well, I could provide evidence that big oil is making their very worst to turn hell into reality for tens of thousands of people in Nigeria. The only thing you tell me as a comment is that "well, yes, It's true. Christians contributed to that! Should I give it a shrug or what are you expecting me to do?" This might be an interpretation of it you might be wanting to convey. Let me give you a little thought to reconsider: Our Lord and Christ Jesus died for the sins of others. Big oil make others die for their own sins, see the diefference? Thomas T

Pay them more money. Who should pay who more money? Everybody of us complaining about amnesty not doing enough.... I wrote this line as a suggestion for my partner here in discussion damo1. Thomas

It has nothing to do with oil and science, it has everything to do with greed. We perpetuate it by demanding cheaper sneakers, clothes, gas, etc, and turning a blind eye to what it takes to get our "stuff". [bolded mine] Please Fez, don't speak on my behalf in this issue, thank you. Thomas

Pay them more money.

How do you now that (I mean the bolded one)? Would you mind if I show you this verse: but test everything; hold fast what is good. 1. Thess. 5:21 [emphasis mine] Perhaps this might be a good idea for you in the future, as a quick unseccessful google search wasn't meant, IMO... Now let me please turn to the sheriff joe who you say is hypocritical without providing details. Let's make a little comparison: How many fellow brothers of yours and mine did you, Ayin, get out of prison? I'm speaking of those inside our family, that are in prison just because of their faith, nothing more.... Do you know how many of ours amnesty gets out of prison, being an organization that is formally not taking sides for any religion? Using this information we can make the comparison just to know if you are entitled to sit in judgement. Thomas

Hello Ayin, could you be precise about what nonsense was meant? Or - even more compelling - provide the link? It's not that I suspect you of telling lies. However, we all are humans, we all could make mistakes, and our memory could play us a trick... I suspect Amnesty to not having had the resources to do research on every single human rights abuse committed throughout this world so far. Maybe this is because people say that their reputiation was not good enough.... Have a good day, Thomas

Dear friends, this is what one of our non-believing posters has said in one of the recent Faith vs. Science threads: But would a Christian ever work to support what is described by amnesty international as violating human rights? http://www.amnesty.o...game-2012-10-29 Have a good day, Thomas

You're welcome Joe, meanwhile, the Simon Wiesenthal Center explained a bit how the criticism against Augstein has been meant. They meant the quotations only, not the person (how friendly), says Abraham Cooper according to Die Zeit (i). However, if he failed to apologize correctly, he would be deemed an anti-semite? Abraham Cooper layed out according to Die Zeit that they had a close look on how he would react now. Interesting.... waiting for things to come. According to the same article, the President of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Dieter Graumann, condemned what Augstein has declared. Greetings, Thomas (i) http://www.zeit.de/g...smus-wiesenthal

Hello D-9, now that this thread has somehow come to an end, can I ask you a question? Did you learn anything out of this discussion? I mean in a sense that you feel perhaps any closer attracted to the gospel of our Lord and Christ Jesus now? Have a good evening Thomas

My point is not that I want to accuse anyone to be a blasphemer. The OP happened to use blasphemy. I always want to discuss the issue not the person.

proceed with his blasphemy? I don't want to be cheeky, but this is what came to my mind when I read this. Hi GE, ok. I realize, that I maybe didn't find everything. Thomas Good day McGyver Although I agree with you on the green one, and even on the blue one - this is true we should not defend our Lord - I want to try to answer the red one. I mean the same question could be asked concerning racism. How do we react if a poster comes across with an analysis that contains racist remarks? We should stand up and fight. It's not so much that God needs to be defended: it is that IMO - the blasphemy has to get immediately out. If that is done, then you can come with your statements that go in detail. Well - I don't know what else you wrote in the then edited post. - the mods can't be around 24 hours. I am convinced that GE did a great job, but he is a human and humans don't maybe detect every single bit of blasphemy by themselves right from the start. Together the blasphemy is most likely to be revealed. <- This is just my two cents, maybe it's different. - let me ask you the following question: once your father is called a relishing murderer, how do you react? sit down calmly and discuss things over a but? Have you ever been on rally against Nazis? The Nazis standing on the other side with their megaphone wanting to talk...? What do you do? Telling the others: "Yes let's sit down and talk things over?" Well I don't think that this works. Shouting two hours so they'll go away (I'm not allowed to use smear words here according to the ToS) is the alternative. Well, we don't want nonbelievers who discuss in an offensive manner to go away the minute they enter here, but blasphemy is the very first thing that needs to be adressed and then follows all the rest. I didn't want nonbelievers who just happened to discuss things in an inappropriate manner to be compared to Nazis. They way racism is usually tackled just came to my mind and that's the way we could tackle blasphemy, too, I think. Of course we tell Nazis to "knock it off", and that's the way we can tell people who used blasphemy in their posts, to knock it off, too, I think. Thomas

By all means, proceed. [bolded mine] Hello HeGivethMoreGrace Could you please explain what you mean by the bolded part of it? Thomas

Uh huh.... Are you asking about the Bible as a whole? Just the Old Testament? The 10 commandments which were given as a covenant sign to Israel? The entire body of the law? (613...365 "thou shalt nots" and 248 "thou must do's") We probably need to narrow this down a bit. Hello McGiver, I didn't like your posting because it went over all the blasphemy out of the old post you quoted. I mean (that's my personal opinion) the first thing we should do when we deal with someone mocking God is to tackle the blasphemy. What you did was going over it and instead mcgivering details. What you did is just spreading the poison of blasphemy, I think. Thomas

... now I'd like to go into more detail: [bolded mine] I think what you are doing here, even in the corrected version - and GE seemed to have had tons of work for monitoring this post - is nothing else than a slap into God's face, I think. When we accuse the Jew totally without any firm reason, It's called anti-semitism. I think what you did here with the remark "relish" is blasphemy. You don't have the slightest bit of evidence for that. [bolded mine] Now let's turn to the less horrible things (my opinion) out of your posting: You claim that there wouldn't be religious freedom, if the ten commandments would turn into law. You are right in a sense that anything prohibiting different religions would be wrong. However, Jesus wants us to deliberatly believe in him. Turning this commandment into what you think corresonds to it best (the law), would counteract free will, which is a necessary ingredient to faith. I'd like to add that your opinion I bolded in the above quote pointed to particular occasions only! Thomas

Hello agooyers, you have many thoughts, I'd like to pick up some out of the corrected version in case you didn't mind and think that these postings still provide a basis for discussion? [coloured and bolded mine] 1) you didn't provide any scripture to give evidence to you claim that the Bible endorsed rape for example. It's absurd, I think. 2) Let's talk about terminology. "Genocide" (i) is the wrong expression for anything that God ordered. God is allowed to do whatever he wants. When people kill other nations without having received a direct commandment of God, that's genocide. The Bible, however left no doubt about the fact that God himself ordered the killing of the Kanaanites. Let me give you an analogy to get my point across. When the state collects taxes, is this called theft? No it isn't. However, when I'd take your purse, it is. (i) according to the definition that is presented here: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007043

Hey Zion, it's interesting what you have to say. I meant physical churches as opposed to an online community. Well, I have to admit, I was also thinking a bit on giving a testimony to the unfaithful. If we have parents who don't believe and we put every problem before them, what does this behaviour tell about how nicely the members of the local church we belong to are interacting with each other? Hi Worshipper, yes, I think you did as Zion got it right. Hi John, I wish you a very good recovering. I think when help comes "of its own", I don't see any reasons to not accept it right away. My OP was focused on the issue of what happens when it does not. Whom should we turn to, if we have a problem? Thomas