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thomas t

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thomas t last won the day on January 7 2013

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About thomas t

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  • Birthday 04/20/1980

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    Northern Bavaria, Germany
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    for instance playing the piano, playing the violin and singing

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  1. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Hi Keras, I think I am not. Jesus was a Jew himself, by the way. But let's come to talk about judgement, now. Bible tells us, for instance, that people from what is now Greece were liars at that age (Titus 1:13). Does this enable you to go around and tell everybody that Greeks are liers? Even if Jesus judges someone, this does not mean that a human should do the same. Jesus is from God. He is God's son. He will be in power of judgement. God kills, man is told to not to. God curses at specific points in time, man is told to not curse, at all. God avenges, man is told to do not. There is a difference between God the Almighty and man, this is to be taken seriously, I think. I won't accuse God or Jesus of anything because it is told in the Bible that man should not accuse God of anything accoring to Isaiah 45:9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles’?". ESV Taking away priviledges is not antisemitism. God gives and takes away, this is how it is. I answered this one, already. It quite often happens to me in our discussion, that you post an argument, I refute it (in my opinion), and then you come back to your argument as if I never said a word about it. This is going round in circles, I think. You could at least take into account that I write you something. God's people are, according to Mark 10:14 .... "But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." KJV ... "of such". (Emphasis mine). Now let's turn to your latest post... I did answer this here.* your speculations, I would say. .... your speculations, also, I think. Are you making fun of us, Keras? Rifles, as well as snipers, weren't around at that age. Regards, Thomas *I must admit that, in that post, I initially wrote Eze 43:11; that was a typing error, I meant Ezekiel chapter 34 in answering your last post about this. Edit: this statement of your's is antisemitic, I think: "the arrogant, LGBT and 'stiff necked' people who live in Israel now." ... quite generalizing, I think. You're taring everybody with the same brush.
  2. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Hi Keras, I think it would be better if we talked about some antisemitic attitudes that can be found in your posts, in my opinion. a) Your idea that Jews will be driven out of their land seems to result in the possibility for others to simply take their land as if it were theirs. Let me give you an example: if someone dies in your neighbourhood, even in case of a sun related illness as your phantasies involve sun strikes and these sorts of happenings .... this doesn't mean you are entitled to benefit from their possessions. b) even if Christians are granted a spiritual inheritance, as you so often point out and as is also explained in Ephesians 1:11, this does not mean that it is proven by you that an earthly inheritance of all things previously owned by Jews will follow. c) even if someone is as wicked and evil as you paint the Jews to be, this doesn't mean that a created human being should go around telling everybody how very evil they are. A human is not entitled to declare another human as evil, I think. d) in my opinion you establish a 'we' meaning "the good ones, the brave," and so on... and then a 'the others' meaning the evil ones. Whereas your 'we' consists of metaphorical Jews - the Christians only - the others would be ethinc Jews, if I get you right. Christians who have a weak faith could feel attracted by this way of simplifying things. Moreover, I think this kind of polarization has ostrazising effects on others. Surprisingly, you yourself concede that Jews should be in no way considered as inferior (my interpretation of what you say here), so let this be valid on this occasion, too. e) you seem to have in mind that Moses' prayer in Exodus 32:13 in favor of the Jews - ethnic Jews - cannot be valid for ethnic Jews, anymore, today. This kind of negation, in my opinion, is all the more surprising since you seem to have argued that a curse formulated in the same time can still be valid for ethnic Jews as of today. By the way, Moses made it explicitly clear that, in his prayer of Exodus 32:13, he referred to all those who the gentiles regarded as Jews (same verse). f) you seem to rule out that God keeps his promises in a literal way when it comes to all the promises the literal Almighty made for the literal Jews in the litaral Holy Land. This sort of tactics otherwise employed by Bible critics would result in calling into question the credibility of the Bible altogether, the inerrant word of God, as I see it. Taking anything and everything in the Bible metaphorically without allowing for literal interpretations is against the meaning of his word, I think. g) There were true believers around in the Old Testament, who didn‘t partain to the Jewish people though, I think. Folks like Nebuchadnezzar, for example (see Daniel 4:34). They were never meant when the Bible says „Jew“. So, taking the name of „Jew“ as metaphorical whenever a blessing referred to them in the Old Covenant, would be highly antisemitic, I think. One last remark on ethnicity... You wrote that "As over 100 generations have passed since their time, every person on earth alive today has at least a smidgen of Abrahams DNA," but that's not the point of what it means to ethnically partain to the people of Israel, anyway. Jakob, also known as Israel, was only the grandson of Abraham, as we all know. He had as many as seven uncles on his father's side, all of them sons of Abraham, too (see Gen. 25:2). Regards, Thomas BTW I am not a Hebrew and Greek scholar.
  3. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Hi Keras, please, never speak in my name, thank you. And then, again and again your remarks about who actually is a Jew in the Bible.... answered and cleared up here and here and here (I could add some more). So, please, avoid repetitions. Regards, Thomas
  4. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Hi Keras, I think, you go into great detail when it comes to your phantasies of burning Jews. And believe me, bunkers aren't mentioned the Bible verses you quoted. We have: flying birds in Isaiah 31:5, a stump in Isaiah 6:13 and we have a tree in Isaiah 37:31-32. ... has been cleared up by a post earlier in this thread, I think (see page 3, post no 4, same thread) In my view, your statements come across as if there weren't enough nightmere scenarios made up concerning the Jews around theses days. Regards, Thomas
  5. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Hi Keras, Deut 32:34-43? Maybe you think that almost any punishment of the Jews as announced by the prophets in the Holy Book hasn't taken place, yet, and still needs to be fulfilled. This is unprovable, I think. Eze 30,1-5 isn't even mentioning the Holy Land. It does cite Egypt, however, you just paint it to be the cleansing of Israel, In my opinion. If I permit to repeat myself, the concept of 'cleansing the land of the Jews' so that it may become free of Jews is antisemitic, I think. Let me go back to some other thing you wrote on Thursday telling Retro that, in your opinion, Rev 3:9 clearly showed that Jews will be thrown out. However, Rev 3:9 referred to a group of people of one synagogue, only, I think - not to all the Jews in the world. Regards, Thomas
  6. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Good morning Inchrist! Just because cyclical patterns can possibly be found in the Bible it isn't proven that one punishment otherwise confined to one generation is being perpetuated from one generation to the next, I think. I see any concept announcing a punishment of Jews for what their ancestors did as dismissed by Ezekiel 18:2-3 “What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, declares the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel." ESV Regards, Thomas
  7. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Hi Keras, I don't think so that my answer was disingenious. A lamb (Jesus) as mentioned in Rev 14:1 moves. A throne as mentioned shortly after is likely to do not. So I stay with my opinion that the people mentioned in Rev. 7:9 are where the throne is, and that Jesus simply has moved to another place in Rev 14:1. That's not my point, Keras. Rev. 7:9 mentioned people that are situated before the throne. You try an array of other verses. Eze 43:11 mentions sheep that have been under the dominion of 'the sheperds of Israel', see Eze 34:1-2. In order to prove your point, it would have been necessary, in my opinion, to show 1. that the sheperds of Israel mentioned in this chapter were not Ezekiel's contemporaries but lived way beyond his time, by the time when Jesus was born, already. Furthermore, 2. that these sheperds had had other sheep than solely Jews. Rom 9:24 doesn't mention the Holy Land. So, I feel this verse cannot count as your proof that Christians own that land. BTW, we discussed Rom 9:26 earlier, see debate shown below, page 6, post no. 6:
  8. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Good morning Keras, So now, you bring another Bible verse to the table. This verse refers to people at Jesus' second coming (see Luke 19:15). When Jesus returns, it is judgement day for all humanity, not only for the Jews, I think. I think your words with regard to Jereremiah is your own presumption as to what his prophesies apply. I think, my statement was right. I edited two grammar mistakes an hour ago. Actually Rev 7:9 describes a venue with a throne, as it reads "a great multitude [...], standing before the throne". So, I think that 7:9 changes to a location that has a throne. Hence, it would be helpful to learn where the throne is in order to find out where 7:9 happens, I think. Let's look at Rev. 14:2-3: "And I heard a voice from heaven [...] The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne" ESV I belive this throne to be the throne of heaven. Regards, Thomas P.S.: I couldn't answer you yesterday because I couldn't be online. I write from public libraries in my town, but yesterday, we had the anniversary of German reunification and the libraries were closed. Actually, Germans are glad to have their own country, now. I believe, so are Jews to have their own country now. P.P.S.: I'd like to go back to something you said earlier ... I don't say that the people mentioned in Rev 7:9 entered the scene through a rapturelike process, neither did I repeatedly say that. But they are in heaven, in my opinion, as stated above. I didn't say anything about where rapture as described in 1. Thessalonians 4:17, for instance, leads. Please don't put words in my mouth.
  9. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Mt 21:43 is speaking of a Kingdom. Actually, it is the Kingdom of God, I think, since both ESV and KJV write literally "Kingdom of God". Have a look at John 18:36.. Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” ESV From Isaiah to now, there have been (my estimation) over 100 generations of Jews in this world. So many have been punished for something, already. And now you say that this is another unfulfilled prophecy. Your proof for this theory is actually zero, I think. If you say that Jer. 12, just before the big catastrophe for the Jews that took place in the 6th century B.C. ...., wasn't fulfilled by those events, you would need to explain why Jeremiah would talk about anything else than exactly this catastrophe that was about to take place? In 7:9, it is pointed out that a multitude of people are coming to the place where the discussion, you're speaking of, takes place. Earth isn't mentioned in that verse. If poeple discuss something *about* a specific place somewhere in the book of Revelation, this doesn't mean that the ones involved in that discussion are actually on earth and *at* that place, to be more precise. If you talk *about* a place that doesn't necessarily imply where you are... Again, your logic that talking about a place means owning it doesn't work, I think...
  10. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance and Wrath

    Last time you tried Jeremiah 10 to prove your point that Jews will be driven out of their property in the near future. I told you that the prophecy of Jeremiah 10:18 was before Jerusalem's first destruction some 600 years B.C., and that Retro pointed that out already on page 2 of this discussion (post No. 7). * .... So now you're trying Jeremiah 12 . However, Jeremiah 12 refers to exactly the same time as Jeremiah 10, I think. So, could I ask you then to avoid repetitions? Thank you. ... the Holy Land isn't mentioned in Rev 7:9. It is a passage about a gathering of the faithful. Somewhere.... In my opinion, again you couldn't prove by scripture that Jews will be driven out. Regards, Thomas * see this forum, "Christians will occupy the Holy Land", page 6, post no. 6.
  11. Christians will occupy the holy Land

    Anybody can be called anything anywhere, this doesn't mean that they own property such as land. This prophecy, Jeremiah 10:18, was before Jerusalem's first destruction some 600 years B.C., as Retro pointed out already (see page 2 of this discussion, post No. 7). The second coming of Jesus Christ, in my opinion, has occured before what is described in Dan 12:2 - only one verse before. However, Dan 12:2 is where many Bible versions I know, among them ESV, cross-refer to Mt 25, one of the chapters in which the second coming of Jesus is described. You can't infer from the land distribution in place after the second coming that it is similar, before, I think. Thomas ----- edit 27.9. as an additional comment: Daniel 12:2 might speak of events occuring even just before the second coming, but at the time, Daniel 12:2 is referring to, people depart from their graves, already. I'm writing this as an edit as opposed to a reply post, as I think this discussion (the one concerning land) needs to come to a halt.
  12. Christians will occupy the holy Land

    Hi Keras, Also this passage, although true, does not prove what you proclaim to be true: that Christians as opposed to ethnic Jews would occupy the Holy Land (before The Second Coming, Rapture, and so on....). If I may permit myself to paraphrase this passage, Christians will actually be called 'my people' at the place where people used to say otherwise. However, it does not say that Christians will indeed occupy the whole of the country. To be called something and occupy land remain two different things, Keras. This is the passage you were reffering to (Rom 9:24-26), as it reads: 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” 26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” In my opinion, you still didn't show a Bible passage that would state what you think will happen. And it is my conviction that you won't find any in the future, either. Thomas
  13. Christians will occupy the holy Land

    Hello Keras, Israel - the Holy Land - is not mentioned in this Bible passage. You still keep telling us that Christians will occupy the Holy Land before Jesus' Second Coming. And you keep telling us that the Holy Land would be cleansed, before. So, my understanding of what you are writing us here, is that you think, God will "cleanse" Israel of the Jews in the very near future. You told us, you didn't want the demise of any people. However you promote a "clean" Holy Land. Being ethnically Jewish for you, however, is not clean for you, except for some few exceptions, as you told us above on this page. But Christians are clean for you. Labelling Jews as dirty/ unclean is an antisemitic cliché, I think. So, in my opinion, you do wish the demise of Jewish Israel (ethnic). You still claim that Christians will occupy the Holy Land. Currently, as we all know, Jews occupy the Holy Land. So, I conclude that by "cleaning" you mean that Jews are driven out. I think you are cursing Israel, here, which is antisemitic, too, in my opinion. "do not curse" Romans 12,14b according to NIV; "Curse not" Romans 12,14b KJV. BTW, ethnic Jews of today won't kill anybody for saying their opinon, I think. Regards, Thomas
  14. Christians will occupy the holy Land

    Keras, Matthew 3:12 reads.... His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. And I'm already using ESV, instead of King James Version... And Keras.... ... you did not cite even one such Bible verse, if I remember well. In the other thread, you referred to Isaiah 51:11. However, it was necessary for you to interpret the ransomed of the Lord, cited in this verse, as not being Jews who return to Zion. This has been rejected by the others. You also referred to Ezekiel 11:15. However, there too, it was necessary for you to interpret the people if Israel, mentioned in this verse, as not being Israel. Nobody bought this, here. In my opinion, your attempt to delegitimize the Israeli state, that is a state run by Jews as its majority population owning their country, failed. Best regards, Thomas
  15. Christians will occupy the holy Land

    Good morning Keras, there was a time when Germany claimed territories* presenting the German interpretation of who should own them. However, the inhabitants of these territories didn't want to be or become German. The ancient German views were one of the reasons of war between France and Germany during the last 150 years. In my opinion, claiming Jewish land means to put pressure on them - this comes at a time when Israel is already set under pressure by territorial disputes. In my view, moving public opinion against the Jews in case they don't want to convert, is a pattern which was first introduced by Martin Luther**, I think. Regards, Thomas * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8269680/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Alsace-gaffe-a-history-of-Alsace-Lorraine.html ** http://religion.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199340378.001.0001/acrefore-9780199340378-e-312
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