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thomas t
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Everything posted by thomas t
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Hi Viole, you changed your posting yesterday. First you compared Christians to Muslims. Now, as that didn't seem enough to you, you liked to add the comparison between Christians and Zeus-worshippers. I believe, nevertheless, that you have the linguistical ability to display your thoughts without doing comparisons. Look, if we'd compare atheists to Nazis, I'm sure you'd feel attacked then. I won't be taking the history book of Zeus-worshippers out right now as to know about what bad things they have committed. Next time you could come up with another religious group and expect us to go into the library, take the history book out and verify if they were criminals or not to know if your comparison was offensive or not. So, I'd like to ask you: please don't compare us to other religious groups. Thank you. Thomas
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Hallo Viole I agree with Ehud in that you simply forgot possible reasons other than growing a tail for that gene. Please, use another word for design. You can use "baking", whereas some Christians keep using "design", I think that would be a basis for a good further discussion. well, but obviously you think that I am a human designer, too, just like you are. Actually I'm not. So that question seems useless, I guess. Have you already set up principles for doing arts? I am sure it was also you having established all of them available in today's world. And I am also sure that Armani and other known artists thank you every day for your guidance on their work.. I am just thinking of another art form, remembering the infamous soccer match Italy vs. Germany this summer. Germany had their structure with principles for everything. The Italian team didn't have any structure at all within their attacking lines. They seemed to get their inspiration just out of the moment. They won. Blessings Thomas
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Awww Viole, you are such a talented and gifted human designer.... Let me suppose that, if God ever comes into troubles with his creating work ... he would be very blessed by your comments. Would you ever give him your advice? Thomas
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WN: Younger teens may get birth control pill - Washington Times
thomas t replied to WorthyNewsBot's topic in U.S. News
There is no back up plan. There is the one and only plan which the world has rejected. Everything else the world has tried has only resulted in more unwanted pregnancies. Giving children condoms and birth control pills is like passing out double cheeseburgers at Weight Watchers. Hello Shiloh, You are pointing to the world as a whole which gives me the impression that I'm welcome to write my opinion to your post, although I'm not American. First af all, I would like to point out that you didn't provide any proof that birth control methods have increased the number of unwanted pregnancies, be it the result of sexual intercourse in mutual agreement, on the one hand, or the result of rape or similar things, on the other. Let me ask you to turn your attention to the latter sort of sexual relations, while I'm hoping that you don't want to argue that birth control methods have led to an increase in the numbers of rape worldwide. Amnesty International has shown that in Nicaragua, for instance, rape is rampant throughout. So, when a women falls victim to a rapist, would she be more likely to be pregnant with or without having taken (regular) birth control pills? Let me give you another example: unvoluntary prostitution is a big issue in Germany. Are you really thinking that banning prostitutes from access to (legal) contraception methods will lead to less unwanted pregnancies among them? Greetings Thomas -
Female Genital Mutilation. I chose that example because it is part of the mores of ancient tribes. Not only of them, even in Germany we had a medicalized form of that some 100 years ago. Now, imigrants are bringing that custom in. Some people complain about the term because they say that it is already taking sides. This is why scientists, to my knowledge, refer to it as "genital cutting". .. in Albania, for instance, there is blood vendetta, as far as I know. In the Bible, this is recorded, too: Lamech said to his wives: “Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say: I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me. Gen 4:23 Have a good day, Thomas
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Hello Jason, As Gary wanted to step out of this discussion, I feel somewhat entitled to step in. BTW, I changed one letter in my quotation of your posting for my personal understanding (non-native speeker, need to have clarity). I have troubles with the style of erecting an argumentational line you are showing. You start with a "remember" as to indicate that what comes thereafter is just something to be remembered, as opposed to something for what proof is needed. Collaborating in a human rights group, I can tell you that, according to my experiences, the very opposite is true. Laws are enacted to put a stop to a tradition. Look at FGM, states are finally agreeing to enact laws against that harmful tradition. In many cases, however, laws are not enacted and human rights work then deals with producing pressure so that laws finally will be enacted. I don't see the things you are seeing. Blessings, Thomas
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Hello Jon, I'd like to start again with the easy questions. Yes, the homosexuality discussion doesn't have any fruit for now. I don't know anybody in this industry. Well, I was just focussing on the possible making of a new category of sin. I always have a bad feeling when people do that. I mean, the Bible is already shameless when it comes to condemning sin. If you would put something on top, God might be going to create wrinkles in his forehead... Didn't he say everything? You said that the Bible is flawless. Well, it is. It should be left as it is, as you surely agree. Yeah, we should. Let's focus on this one: Looking at a woman does not necessarily mean lusting for them, as you surely agree. Jesus did not widen his statement to every kind of look at a woman, if she is undressed, I think. Thomas
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Hello Jon, ok - I'm pleased to exchange opinions with you. Let me start with the easy questions and end up with the controversial ones: yes. .. according to Jude, it was aiming at having sex with unknown people. In addition to that, I have the impression that the tone, in which Jude says "go after" in this verse (7), includes his disapproval of the fact that the people of Sodom and Gomorrha didn't pay any attention to the guests' consent - rather the absense of which. I wanted proof? the truth was, I was wanting to criticize the absence of it, so that the participants of this thread could discount for themselves the value of the allegation made, if they like. If you want to correct someone's teaching, don't do that with me (I'm the wrong one for this). I'm not saying that I share (all of) your views, neither am I saying that I don't. I simply avoid laying down what are mine concerning the topic of homosexuality and sin. Maybe you want to discuss the question what happens if someone comes up with false teaching. Well, that's simply another question, maybe for a different thread. The latter question was the one I was not willing to answer and I'd like to ask you to accept. God's judgement is in the Bible - but as you wrote: God's judgement. Repeating parrot-fashion what you think is in the Bible maybe is not the activity he wants us to have. I actually meant the verse I indicated, Jon. I try to be sensitive. I don't like to add on to the terminology 1) habitual sin. To the best of my knowledge, this terminology cannot be found in the Bible. Maybe you "enhanced" the term "sin" by adding "habitual". Then, the question arrises: why enhancing anything written? I agree: the word "bible" doesn't figure in the Bible and we still use it. That's the only example of non-biblical definitions to descible biblical content that make sense, in my view - the rest of the non-biblical terminology generally used for scripture I personally don't like so much. If you want to establish different categories of sin you need to employ biblical evidence for it, I guess. 2) pornograpy labelled as sin. Look, Jon, there are people earning their living in that industry. Their job is part of their life. If you attack that, you attack them. At the same time, I'm not saying that it is good (just a matter of clarification). Have a good day Thomas
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Good day Jon, you ask me again if homosexual pracice is sin or not. Can I ask a question in return? Are you sinless? According to Mt 7:1, our engagement in judging the identity of others constitutes a trespass on God's prerogative to judge, I think. In order to not possibly be making a sinful judgement, I won't anwer this question. Not answering a question is the opposite of being politically correct. Yet you apparently don't have any problem with not being politically correct, so you might show some understanding for my reaction. ;-) maybe my English wasn't good enough. I believe "strange flesh" to be the expression of another unknown person's body. I think, Jude 7 is, of course, not about cannibalism but rather referring to the pursuit of sexual intercourse with unknown people. This is quite a long discussion, I think. It started off by me simply pointing out that there is an unproven allegation in this thread. I find it quite ironical that I of all participants in the thread have to lead a lengthy discussion. I get the impression that it could be you find me not wanting to lay out my opinion about other peoples's sexual lives more troubling than an unproven account. Have a good day, Thomas
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Hello Jon, let my first write my thoughts on your thoughts on question # b. If you are preaching about giving up smoking, you don't interfere in anybody's life. Do this. Smoking does not represent a part of one's identity. Sexuality does. However, if you say "homosexuality is a bad thing" this is equivalent to debating the person as he or she is homosexual in contrast to just having adopted a bad habit.. # c and d You are not Timothy, Jon. (I hope you dn't feel offended by this) The passage 2.Timo 4:2 is directed, I think. Confessing that Jesus is Lord is not the same as saying anything about homosexuality. #e Well, we shouldn't put ourselves under pressure, I think. Pressure comes from the outside - that's enough. But I don't feel set under pressure, anymore. The rest of what you wrote was nice, in my opinion. Enjoy the day Thomas
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Hello Jon, I didn't see your last posting, yet. I'll respond to that one, first. Well, now I studied the issue a bit. Let me explain a bit more my take on your question #3. I didn't find a single word about homosexuality in the Bible. Science also, to the best of my knowledge, is still about to discover where homosexuality comes from. Men sleeping with men - that is mentioned, yes. But women sleeping with women is another side of the story, in my opinion. As you mentioned, Paul told us that some women exchanged the natural thing against the unnatural, and I think having sex with their own gender is meant indeed. But my reading is that it is not as clear cut as you hold it as to rule out that anyone of them ever enters heaven. Paul in this verse gives value to the fact that their honor was diminished, that's all, I think. Thank you for the suggestion to go to the inner court, but also there gays may read along. I try to put myself in the place of a persecuted gay who might be reading for the 1000th time that homosexuality was abomination and then I like try not to hurt his feelings, anymore. However, I have great difficulty in putting myself in a gay's shoes. I don't have any idea of how easy or difficult it is having any homoerotic feelings vanish. So, I feel quite uncertain in this field when I try to not hurt anyone. I don't share your views on Jude 7, Jon. "strange flesh" rather means some stranger's flesh, I think. Have a good day Thomas
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After all... I did ask first. God bless, GE Hi Jon, I think 6 questions in this field is quite a bit. LGBT people are a persecuted minority group in this world, as you surely know. I wish to be very careful not to add anything to their persecution just by stating careless things. I would be pleased if we could stop our discussion with the discussion of your questions, feel free not to answer my six questions publicly. 1) wine for instance can have beneficial effects if consumed with moderation. Cigarettes - well, I don't smoke. 2) I agree in that the Bible is flawless. It should be standard to all Christian lives. 3) No, I don't think so. 4) This I find to be the picky question. I agree in that everyone of us should stand up and take sides for the weak when it comes to human rights abuses. For it says "love your neighbor as yourself" (Mt. 22:39). At the same time, I don't like to critizise a minority group. Is it really necessary for me to take sides in this? Rest assured, once I perceive abuse committed by anyone of my acquaintance, I will of course contact the police. The other thing is, when I come to read the spanking threads, I get frightened. I won't be pointing the finger at the abuse in families with lesbian mothers/ gay fathers without having addressed corporal punishment of children in our own ranks, first. 5) God. I've already known that passage, Jon. 6) God invites everybody to get transformed. Have a good day Thomas
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I take your last line as an excuse not to answer the 6 questions. Just want to address the first one. In Germany, there are 82 million people living here. You want me to comment on every single sin of every single person? I won't do that, I'm sorry. I mean, not all of us Germans are homosexual, but these who are not, I'm sure, still have other things in their lives that are still remaining ungodly to say the least... I think in order do adress the topic of homosexuality (or any other topic, but I stick to that one here), one need to ask oneself 6 questions: * Do I feel pure love for my lesbian or gay fellow citizens when I speak out about their lives? * Didn't homosexuals yet got to hear that their lives are inferior to those decent wife-husband-lives, so far? * Did Jesus mean expressing opinions about generic themes in public message boards when he said "make disciples" (Matthew 28:19)? * when interfering into the lives of others - and sexuality is, in my opinion, part of the identity of a person - , don't I need the personal and specific call by Jesus to actually do so? I mean ... can I just start preaching like this without Jesus having given to me the concrete call to do this? * Am I really free from any touch of being set under pressure by my fellow brothers when I state my opinion about this subject? * Am I praising the Lord when I write my opinion about it? If one can answer all of the six question with a wholehearted "Yes, it is", then one should state one's opinion about this in a public message board, - do you agree? But if any of the sic questions is answered by a "no" or a "I'm not 100% sure about it" then I won't do it and I won't be dragged into this by my dearest brothers. Have a good day, you too. Thomas
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and also... The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is sin. Therefore approving a relationship legally based on a sinful relationship weakens the family unit. Do you agree with this line of thinking? So let me turn this question around do you believe the that legalizing same sex marriage has not weakened the family unit? Just two questions this time so we can focus the discussion. Hello Jon, just to know, if I got you right, you argue like this: Every law should be based on what is written in the Bible (I read this between the lines of what you write). Then I know where you are leading. I'll answer the questions first... I remain neutral on this at the moment. Meanwhile, I'm open for any advice. To say this first, I'm not approving legal same sew marriage. I'm reading between the lines of this question that you think that legalizing something equals approving it. In contrast, I think the following way: If you cannot prove that legalizing something does not do harm to somebody, you should legalize the cause, if leaving it illegal would mean discriminating against anybody. Two times "If": I hope that phrase is not too compicated. Have a good day Thomas
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Hello Golden Eagle hhm, I don't quite know where you are wanting to lead with these questions. Never mind. Yes, Jon, I agree with you that we should live a biblical life and I think it is helpful if we would know a biblical foundation for every word we speak. Yes, Jon, this seems logical. Well, now I want to adress to the last post you wrote me. I doubt that you understood what I was writing (the lines that you underlined). I'm not arguing against the study. I find your style a tad tyring. I write something and I get ten questions in return. Well, never mind. Yes, Jon, I agree. Look Jon. What I put my critiqe upon was the fact that the allegation that the legalization of same sex marriage weakened the family structure is unproven in this thread. I might make it clearer when I repeat: the study holds that children raised in LM/GF homes offen suffer, the study does not show that the strong units (traditional families) will be torn apart once same sex marriage is legalized. Neither does the study show that the legalization of same sex marriage would make it possible to adopt children out of traditional families into LM/GF homes. I repeat, I don't see the prove for the allegation cited above. I want to add: in order to prove the allegation that the legalization of ss marriage weakens something, it isn't enough to show that the one families are stronger or better that the other on average. If the study can present the evidence that children will be transformed or transferred from traditional families into LM/GF families through the legalization of same sex marriage, then, at last, the evidence is made for the allegation above. What I have in mind is the following: where do the children LM or GF adopt come from? From orphanages? From the streets? Then the comparison between traditional families and LM/GF families misses the point, Jon. And when you argue with artificial insemination for lesbian mothers, you don't show that children out of traditional families are being transferred into a same sex parent's home. And again, the comparison between traditional families and same sex parent's families misses the point for what you are wanting to show. Thomas
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Good day Shiloh. To me, what the Bible has to say about homosexuality is one thing. The effects of same sex marriage being made legal the other. Jon cited a study that showed that children raised by same sex parents suffer often. But any of us posters showed that only because of the legalization of same sex marriage, children are taken out of traditional families and placed in LM/GF- homes. Neither did anybody believe that, once same sex marriage becomes legal, children living in traditional families can be taken out through adoption into LM/GF homes. Hence, I don’t see any proof for the allegation made above. Have a nice week Thomas Thomas
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Hello GE, ok, I changed the word "slander" in the above post. As I already mentioned, I like everything the Bible has to say to us. I agree with the latter. That sounds logical at first thought, yes. Sign of stability, that sounds vague to me. Even if state officials seem more compelled to give their green lights to an adoption by LMs being legally married, then I wonder how Selene can show how that weakens anything. Well, maybe she comes up with something... Have a good day Thomas
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GE, the next question is, would the denial of same sex marriage in itself transfer children from LM or GF's households to IBF housholds? I think the answer is "no". Selene claimed that the legalization of ss-mariage weakened the familiy structure. To my understanding, the proof to be undertaken for this claim should encompass that the children would be raised in IBF households if legal ss-mariage is denied. Then the allegation would be proven, I think. Thomas P.S.: I now know that slander is a very strong word in English. I would like to have it replaced by "saying an unproven allegation about another person".
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Is the availability of artificial insemination and surrogate mothers for lesbian/gay people linked to the legalization of ss marriage? Perhaps you can explain this a bit more... Isn't it that a woman who wants to have artificial insemination simply gets it? I'll look that up, too. Thomas P.S.: Ok, I looked that up at wikipedia. In several Eurpean countries, lesbian woman that are not married can get artificial insemination. In Germany, it is tied. Some doctors grant it.
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Good day GE, thank you for the study. The study holds that children raised at same sex parent's are more likely to come into problems. My question is: does the legalization of ss marriage have anything to do with the number of children raised mother/mother or father/father ?
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Shiloh, I love everything God tells us through the Bible. But the Bible is very big to me.... and I'm more interested in matters that concern me more... Shiloh, I'm making choices, now. Choices between topics I want to discuss and other topics. On top of that, I'm in a challenging phase of my professional life, I have to make choices between what I want to know and what I don't want to know in order to not overcharge my time ressources. Nevertheless, I think that if I ever want to formulate a statement about homosexual life styles, it should come out of love for gay or lesbian people. At the moment, I know one at my church, who at least was homosexual, but he seems to have come to a good conclusion (that I didn't quite get). I have another friend on facebook, who is homosexual. Well, I really have other things in my life that need my handle, and I don't even know if my facebook friend wants to know about my attitude (still to be elaborated) about homosexuality... and we didn't mail since a year or so... Have a good time, Thomas
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Shilo, thank you for your intervention. I'm not quite sure, whether to take this as a compliment. My capacities are limited, Shilo. I'm just a human. I'm 32 years old. I really feel stressed when I start to want to know everything the Bible is presenting us... Do I approve to same sex marriage. Look, this is the problem. I don't know. My sexual identity is heterosexual, I don't feel the need to study into this.
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Hello Selene No, don't put words in my mouth. Thank you. Well, I don't know... Could you please avoid any patronizing tone, please? Thank you. You made an allegation that "the homosexuals" managed to weaken the family structure. You wrote : I think, since you did not provide any proof for this chapter, it is an unproven allegation against homosexuals. But I don't want to accuse you, because maybe you come up with some proof now... Thomas
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I don't have a same sex marriage. If you do, is another topic. And I believe that I should not have a same sex marriage. Thomas Do you believe in same sex marriage?? Do you see that as biblical permissible union? Hello Shiloh, look, my brain size is limited. I decided to make choices between biblical topics in that I want to know my way around and others that I simply ignore. Bible and Homosexuality belongs to the latter category... I'm sorry. Thomas
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I don't have a same sex marriage. If you do, is another topic. And I believe that I should not have a same sex marriage. Thomas