firestormx

Thank you and may the peace of the Lord remain with you always

Thanks, and God bless

Here you go

If you mean the tooth infection, you can have it,

Brother Mike I promised I would reply after I had time to pray. I wanted to pray before I spoke about what happened to lead me to start this thread. I will try to be brief. but it propobly won't work out that way. I think I understand what you were trying to say in your post. Yes I have the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evideicnce of speaking in tongues. I have had dreams and visions from God and the Devil since I was a boy. For a long time I thought it was normal to be having these all the time. But what happened just a few days ago was a lot more like when I died. ( I've spoken of when I died only a time or 2 up here on worthy) When I say it was like when I died I just mean, absent from the body. So this is what happened a few days ago..... I had started to get really sick. I was staying in constant pain with a tooth. I have no insurance and there are no free dental clinics where I live. I had been asking God to heal me, but got real serious about asking when my face started to swell up. ( I have a really bad infection in a tooth, I've since went to the emergancy room) I have been having a lot of trouble sleeping, and as I lay in the bed the other night ( 3 nights ago ) I closed my eyes and started praying. I was not asleep, my eyes were closed. But I was praying out loud. The next thing I know I was in a room that seemed familiar to me. I couldn't place where though. I felt complete peace. I wasn't in any pain at all. ( didn't realize the lack of pain till later). I was walking by this wall, and I notinced someone had hung a picture for me to see. I don't know how I knew this, I just knew it was true. The painting was alive. I really don't know how else to discribe it. It was moving and alive. It was on what looked like an ancient scroll. A big one. There were airplanes and tanks and soliders. As I looked at the picture I knew it was a war about to take place and it made me sad. It made me sad because somehow I knew it didn't have to happen but was going to because of peoples choices on earth. I didn't know what countries were involved, and it didn't matter. It was sad. I had been happy and peaceful in this place before I looked at the picture. So I moved on, I didn't want to look at anymore. It was then I realized This room was huge. I mean gigantic. The ceiling was so high I couldn't see it. The walls were coverd in all different kinds of gems and presious stones. Then I saw the floor. It was like glass. I couldn't help myself. I'm 37 years old, I haven't done this since I was a kid, but I started running as fast as I could and then then I slide across the floor as far as I could. I laughed and laughed. for a few moments I felt like a kid again. Then I started paying attention. I don't know why it didn't dawn on me before, but at this point I realized where I had heard, seen and read about a glass like floor before. First in the bible, in the book of revelation I believed, and 2nd, when I died and was with the Lord for a little bit. I realized then where i was. And without hestation or fear I jumped up to my feet and said, Well, then I'm going to find Jesus. As I walked across this room, I realized it looked like I was alone, and also that there was no way in or out of this room. But in part there was what I knew was a place for an offering to be given. I mean an old testament offering, the fire and everything. except there was no fire, it looked like it had gone cold, and hadn't been used in a while. But as I looked at it and examined it, instantly, without any hestation at all, I said The Blood of Jesus is my offering! I said it as a statement of fact. It wasn't it even a question. Fact. The second I said it, everything changed. Suddenly there was alot of noise around me. to my right where I thought was a wall was now an open door that I just knew led right to the throne room of God. In front of me with his back to me, facing the offering place was Christ. His head was down, like he was doing something with the offering place. I couldn't make out any features because he was shining so brightly, but my eyes never hurt. He was just surrounded by glory. Then he rasied his head and a wave of what I will call glory and power hit me. Instantly I was back in my bed, eyes still closed. I opened my eyes. It seemed like 2 or 3 minutes had went by and I looked at the clock it had been 40 minutes. My jaw and face didn't hurt again for hours. I have no idea if I was in the spirit, or not in my body or not. Thats why I posted this thread. God bless you Firestormx

Thank you for the post. I'm going to pray over what you have posted and will respond more after I've prayed.

Thanks to everyone for the posts. To answer the question posed to me. I have always understood a vision to be, when your wide awake, eyes open, but instead of seeing what your suppose to be seeing ( like the tv for example ) You are shown something else. A dream takes place when your asleep, where as a vision takes place when your in your body but awake. There is also the much debated in the spirit. As in the referance someone used about peter. The scripture states that peter on that day that he saw the sheet come down from heaven with all the unclean animals on it, that he was in the spirit. I had a personal experiance very recently, I'm a little hesitant to say what. Everytime I have tried to open up on worthy about this kinda stuff I feel I've gotten kinda slammed for it. I was hoping to keep this purely scriptual. But that scriputre I used in my OP was the closest thing to what happened. Thanks for the posts everyone and may God bless you all

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 (NIV) I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. Was this a vision? It's not discribing a dream. It doesn't fit the modern meaning of a vision either. What do you understand this verse to be talking about? Is such a thing possible for us today? God bless Firestormx Joseph

I come across this article and thought it was intresting. Figured I would share it here with all of you and see what you thought of it. I think it is important to discuss and understand the differance between gift and reward. They are both discussed in the bible. I think this article does a good job of distinguishing the differance from a biblical perspective. So what do you think of it. What do you think was left out or not explained enough? http://global.christianpost.com/news/the-biblical-distinction-between-gift-and-reward-87729/ Firestormx Joseph

Isaiah 41:10 Fear not, for I am with you; Be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, Yes, I will help you, I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.

Forgive me for asking, but were you being serious with your question or sarcastic? Do you believe the doctrine of believe and recieve it? Or were you trying to make a point I missed? What does that have to do with hearing Christ the living Word, the author and finisher of our faith? Also, what is your understanding on the differences and similarities between a Rhema word and a Logos word. Thank you and God Bless

Thanks to everyone who has posted. I honestly stumbled across this, when I was trying to make sure I was reading the Romans verse in context. It was then I realized there was more to this verse than I had thought about before. To properly have a true interputation you have to put it in context. Whatever the proper truth of that verse, it has to apply not only to us today, but also to the christians at rome that paul was writing to. The first century christians in rome didn't have a bible like we have today. They were hated and revieled by not only the romans, but also the jews. As were all christians at the time. So there exposer to even the old testament scripture was limited at best. So if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, and there ability to acess the word (or the bible as we call it), was so limited, then there has to be more to this verse and what it means than just reading the bible. Which is also what got me into looking at the differance in the words Logos and Rhema. Anyone wishing to expound on this ( weather for or against don't matter ), it would be appreciated. God Bless Firestormx Joseph

John 1:14 And the Word (Logos ) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word (Rhema) of God. I've been doing a study of the differance between logos and rhema. On the affect it has on verses like romans 10:17. The word Logos never seems to be used in referance to the entirety of scripture, or in referance to all of the written word. Where as Rhema in some places does. Both meanings have some form of utterance and saying or spoken in them. They both have more meaning to them, but I'm just trying to keep it simple here. So, Why is this study so important to me? Why have I posted this? I take the verse I quoted in John to properly mean that the entire word of God is in the person of Jesus Christ. He is the embodiment of the word. Most people I have ever talk to, would say that the verse in Romans states that faith comes by hearing the Written word of God, what we call the bible. As we read the bible and study it and hear a minister preach on it, so comes our faith. But the more I study this out, the more I'm beginning to think that is tradition and it's not entirely correct. It's missing a important point. Our faith comes by hearing Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith, or the Living Word of God, by whatever means he uses. Whether it's a pastor on sunday morning, personal study of the bible. The Holy Spirit Illuminating the bible. Simply reading the bible its self isn't enough. We must be connected to the living Word and hearing him which is Jesus Christ. The bible states that the natural mind or the flesh can't understand the word of God. The word just don't make sense to the flesh. So there has to be more to the Romans verses than just reading the bible ourselves or hearing someone else read the bible. So what do you think? Is just reading the bible with out a connection to the Living Word enough for faith? What do you understand as the difference between Logos and Rhema? Firestormx Joseph

I will say that being called and anointed to teach by the Holy Spirit as opposed to going to some school and choosing it as a profession makes a huge difference in power given out. Jesus Is Lord. Amen!!!

The 2 witness thing is my doing. Someone said the gifts including speaking in tongues have ceased. That they ceased with the close of the first centry and the death of the last apostle. I used revelation 11:6 trying to show that the gifts are still in operation at that time and point in revelation. For there entire ministry to be called prophecy is the gift of prophecy. Just like paul says being an apostle was a gift, ( Eph. 4:11 ). For one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be labeled a ministry lasting 1260 days, to me shows that the gifts ( including speaking in tongues ) are still active and have not ceased. Then someone started saying the 2 witnesses were not people but the old and new testaments. Which has led us to here. I have no desire to continue that conversation, so maybe it will stop. God bless Firestormx Joseph

The scripture doesn't say. So anything I or anyone else says beyond scripture is just a guess. by the way, will you now answer my question and explain how the old and new testament will proform miracles, die, have there bodies lie in the street, and then get called to heaven. to be honest, I'm beginning to think your avoiding answering.

I did give evidance revelation chapter 11. they get killed. there bodies are left in the streets. they are rasied from the dead called to heaven in the sight of men. Also, it says they can preform the signs in rev. chapter 11 at will. If they are not people, then how do they have a will? In short the context of the chapter in which they are talked about.

I believe they are what the bible says they are, 2 witnesses. I believe the context clearly says they are people. now let me ask you a qustion. If it is the old and new testament and not 2 people who are witnesses, then how can they be killed, or there bodies be left in the street, or God raise them from the dead and call them up to heaven in the sight of men. I think you are taking the verses out of context. they are 2 witnesses who's 3 and a half years of ministry is labeled as prophecy. which is biblical proof that the gifts are in operation at that time. so the gifts couldn't have ceased or passed away. Last question. It is improper use of scripture to take 1 verse and build a doctrine around it, that isn't supported by other scriptures. What and where is the other biblical verses that state the gifts, like speaking in tongues, have passed away? Thank you and May God bless you Firestormx Joseph

First, I don't think I understand your response. Please speak plainly. But let me clarify. I meant when I said the end, simply that they were going to be sent by God to minister at some point during the events of revelation, which as of this time have not happened and precced the 2nd coming of Christ. Now, are you saying that the 2 witnesses complete the word of God? Or are you saying they are the word of God. Because the part you left off was where the 2 witnesses get overcome and killed. Might I suggest a word study of the langusge used in this verse. In the greek it is clear there ministry ( which is 3 and a half years long) is prophesing or prohecy. The verse is clear that the gifts are still in operation at that time, which is yet to come. Would you mind explaining your thoughts a little plainer and simplier for me. Thank You Firestormx Joseph

If the gifts, including speaking in tongues have ceased then how do you explain this verse. Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. This verse clearly states that the 2 witnesses sent at the end will be speaking prophecy. If the gifts, such as tongues and prophecy have ceased then, how can this verse be? This is out of revelation. Clearly about the end of the age, right before the return of the Lord to set up his kingdom on earth. If the gifts have ceased for one of us, then they have ceased for all of us. Other translations render the highlighted part as " during the days of there prophesing". If the gifts have ceased this could not be so. May God bless you Firestormx Joseph

i understand your point. I knew a person once who spoke in tongues a lot during a certain time in there life. Things had been going very bad for them. During there prayer time they would often say the name Yeshua. This was a very poor person. They had never been more than a few blocks from thier home. Never been on a computer. Had never heard hebrew spoken. When I told them that when they said that name it was Jesus name they were calling, they were floored. They had no idea. A long story short, they had been praying to God in Hebrew and never new it. They had never been exposed to anything outside of a few blocks, much less hebrew. But it seemed to strength there faith in the Lord when they found out. They drew closer and closer to the Lord, until the cancer they had not told anyone about took them home to be with the Lord. Watching speaking in other tongues in there private prayers draw someone closer to God in a time in there life like that. Where they spent there last days here, in church every chance they had, witnessing to everyone they could, sharing that how no matter what they could count on the Lord to comfort them and keep them in his perfect peace, was beyond words. The Love of Christ took on a new meaning with them. Speaking in tongues brought them such comfort, Knowing that what they couldn't put into words, The Holy Spirit put into words for them. It was something to see. I guess, let each of us work out there own salvation with fear and trembling. Firestormx Joseph

I agree with what you are saying, and with botz posts. But I've been on both sides of this. I understand completely why so many who don't have the baptism of the Holy spirit with the evidance of divine utterance, say they are made to feel like less of a christian if they don't have it. I guess I just think, espically with this subject, that the best route to take, is never condoning sin, never trying to convince, but speaking his truth in love, and letting the Holy Spirit convince. Letting each work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. Motive is important. I don't know anyone's but my own. sometimes I don't even know that. But having a motive that everything we speak or do, is being done for his glory and in love, that all others may be drawn closer to Christ is important. Shouldn't we as believers be trying to help build each other up, even when we disagree, instead of tearing each other down, saying " do it my way or you have a devil"?

Allow me to keep the revolving door going. He doesn't forbid it either! Somethings in the bible are just suppose to be understood, you know common sense, ( not trying to talk down to you, but being serious). For instance, the bible says Jesus was a man just like us. But the bible never says Jesus used the bathroom although I'm pretty sure he did from time to time. Let me show my point this way. On the day of pentacost, the bible says They spoke( the sound) and the Holy spirit gave the utterance ( the words ) Acts 2:4. Jesus said his words were not his own, but the Father's. There are many examples of the Holy spirit speaking in the new testament. Not the Father, or Jesus but the Holy Spirit. Which only speaks that which he hears. When someone is speaking in tongues, it is the Holy Spirit giving the utterance ( words ). Are you really telling me, that it is not biblical for God through the Holy Spirit to speak to his children? What does it matter if it is in tongues or not. What is a language to God? It is the spirit that should be edified, or built up, not the mind. In our mind is ego and pride, but in our spirit is Christ. Which is also why paul commands us to pray for the understanding. For no good thing shall be withheld from us. God speaks to us. This is suppose to be an understood. Are you really prepared to tell God how he can speak to one of his children? Are you ready to tell someone that it's not God but the devil or themselves? What is the implaction if your wrong and it's God talking, and you've given the credit to the devil or flesh instead of God? We all know that sometimes it's faked. But I honestly believe that with people on both sides of this debate, that there hearts are truely seeking God and a closer walk with him. I've come to the point over the years, that I think It's better to let each work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. I've never read that God in the bible Commanded us to convince anyone, of anything. But rather speak his truth as it has been given to us. It is the Holy Spirit's job to convince, and not mine to tell someone else how there God is allowed to talk to them and minister to them ( for speaking in an unknown tongue edifies or builds up the believer ). I pray that the Lord of Peace, Jesus Christ may draw us all away from our pride and needing to be right, and into a closer walk with him. Firestormx Joseph

ok, I think, ( big I think) I'm beginning to understand ( not agree, understand) what you are saying. Please tell me if this is what you have been saying. Christ was the Final revelation of God, ( who he is, his nature, his atrubuites and so on) to us. Hence your use of the term Corporate. It was to all of us. Christ is the word made flesh. All of scripture points to him. Revelation as most people think doesn't exsit now because Christ has already been revealed as that revelation. When we go into the Word, ( Christ is the word made flesh) We are not given revelation on it, but it is Illuminated By God for us. Our understanding of The known Lord Jesus Christ is deepened and Clarified. Hence it is a illumination and not a revelation. Since Christ is the revelation and that revelation was to all of us, revelation is corporate, for all, where as illumination is personal. is this right? Did I miss anything? Firestormx Joseph

These were my questions, in my first post of this thread. 1. What is your understanding of No New Revelations or No New Knowledge? 2. How does this affect things like dreams and visions and the gift of prophecy? 3. The apostles were the foundation, christ the cornerstone. But if there is No new revelations, how do the walls and roof get built? I aslo in a post a little further down on the first page posted these links, that as I was doing my research and study of this I came across. http://www.bible-tea...revelation.html Read this one first http://www.tms.edu/tmsj/tmsj14h.pdf These were my questions. Not can canon be changed or added to. I understand that some of you see this as the same. I don't.. I understand when someone says no new revelation, that no can ever receive any revelation of any kind, ever. That's the implication of no new revelation. That it affects things like dreams, visions, and prophecy. Because all such dreams, visions and prophecy if they are true, must come from God, and are a revelation of him and his will for us. Take paul's vision of Chrsit, when Jesus said, paul would be taken all the way to rome. Then I posted these links. Where in the one I put read first, is especially using scripture in what I thought ( but wasn't sure) was an improper way. He lays out all the conseqenses of no new revelation. I've never once, said I think there is something that should be added to the bible, because I don't. I wanted to know from the start, what does no new revelation means to you, what's the implacation, if there can't be any revelations at all, how does that affect things like dreams visions and prophecy, and our walk with God. This is what I asked. Not should canon be added. I asked a question a few posts back, it was is new revelation and revelation the same things. I think yes. in the general meaning of the word yes. You don't have a revelation on something you already know and understand, it's always new to you, that's why it's a revelation. You might say I am saying change the canon, I'm not. You might say, or think I'm saying, the canon isn't complete. I'm not. I just can't accept that there is no more revelation ( same thing as new revelation) at all, in any way.