JTC

Ivan, 

 Wesley is correct being Born Again is not a matter of how you feel. It's a matter of belief and how you live. Some people have a miraculous change in behavior over night but most folks don't. I didn't. What does happen is the sins that were once fun just aren't anymore. Now you probably feel wrong about doing them. In time you will sin less and less as your love of God grows. Read Proverbs to know what God loves and what He hates. I know I would have done much less sins but when I was saved, 40 yrs ago, the churches were teaching it didn't matter if you kept sinning. But it does matter. A person who doesn't even try to change may eventually lose whatever he has. But those changes can take years. Just keep reading or listening to your Bible, we have excellent Bible apps nowadays. And talk to God, this is what prayer is.

22 hours ago, existential mabel said:

i dont know if this is true but the corona virus would alter our DNA is this true?

I'm glad to say I haven't heard this. It sounds like more panic talk from those who wish to see us panic. I also agree with Deborah_ that altering DNA is very difficult.

Again I am reminded that we have enjoyed close to 100 years without any serious extremely contagious illnesses. My parent's generations had the 1918 flu, Polio, and measles, just to name a few. The vaccine to measles came out right around when I was born, so I just missed that big scare. My point is an infectious pathogen is not uncommon on earth.

If I assume God wants to use this virus to turn some of the earth back to Him then I think it will be with us up to 5 yrs or more. Eventually even the hard hearted will have to cry out to God for help. Until God allows us to have a vaccine we should be careful to not catch it. This means masks and social distance.  I say those who refuse to wear masks are deep into the sin of pride and selfishness. We may even need the N-95 masks. In the Epistles Paul said he wouldn't eat meat sacrificed to an idol because that could harm his fellow believers faith. So Paul would have quickly worn a mask to protect others from a germ he may have had. Paul never considered himself better than anyone else. We should not either. 

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

How far should we go in debating these false teaching discussions? 

If we know an idea is a false teaching then aren't we supposed to report that post? It would then be up to the mods to delete or let it stand.

I personally won't argue, I rarely even debate.

40 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Christian left or the secular left?

I'm not sure. The people who want to destroy freedom and the free way of life we value so highly here. It includes those who foolishly think you can have a society without Policeman. Without police, chaos and crime will rule and everything I've ever known will end. I suppose I mean both, Christian & Secular Leftists.

(I had no idea this was such a loaded question)

1 hour ago, LadyKay said:

No one here wants to look at their selves and consider for a moment that maybe they are wrong about something.  Everyone believes they have all the right answers and no amount of facts, history, or reasonable conversation will change anyone's mind on anything. 

I know how you feel. I'll even say it's true of many here. But it's not true of me, I always examine my thoughts and values with an eye open to modify them when necessary.

But there's no shortage of bull headed people here. I'm sure you realize our membership changes often. Most of the posts today are being made by people who weren't here 2 yrs ago. I don't like this, but it's a fact.

The Internet is still something very new. The problem with the Internet is people can remain anonymous and therefore be rude, angry, and downright hostile. I bet most of the obnoxious people online are not like that in person. So I predict that within the next 25 yrs there will be places online where the folks are not anonymous, by choice. I probably won't be here to see it but many of you will. I believe this will happen because the Internet has become a genuine part of living. For people like me, a disabled senior citizen, going online is often the only socializing I do. I would welcome a place where I knew who was there. I read so many posts here that I think must be written by kids. I love kids, but I need to know when I'm talking to one. The Internet will change, it's inevitable.

This virus is both real and quite dangerous. A good vaccine would go a long way in getting the world functioning again. And we do need the world to function again. I don't know a lot about vaccines but after I was born my parents told me about Polio and how it had crippled 1 of my uncles. When I saw a picture of him from before he had polio I almost couldn't believe it was the same person. But it was. So the Polio vaccine was a wonderful thing.

When we finally have a covid vaccine I will want it but I will be hesitant in getting it. Not because I fear anything conspiracy theory related but simply because the vaccine may make some folks sick.

Since I haven't had the flu in over 25 yrs I don't get the yearly vaccine.

Yes, this thread has helped me understand thee Left a little. But I still wonder what's meant by Left Leaning?

Even though I identify myself as conservative I have now, and always had, some very liberal pov. But I don't agree with what I know to be the Left. One difference between them & me is I'm not trying to push my liberal ideas on anyone, much less force them.

2 hours ago, Sower said:

I was fortunate to raise my family in this environment, out doors, and not in a crowded city w/the city problems.
Chances of shark attack is 1 in 3.75 million.    Since 1865 there had been 65 shark attacks in Texas waters.

I also lived that way when I was younger. I didn't live in a city neither. The reason all these shark sighting upsets me is because I wouldn't swim knowing so many are being seen. I find this sad especially for the younger people who want to go in the water.  The statistics you quoted me are hard to believe, but I'm not going to check. You can gamble on not becoming a statistic I'd rather not. 

I've often noticed that Walter just likes to quote certain scriptures. I wouldn't be surprised if when he made the OP he thought he had figured something out but upon reflection thought differently about it. Just a thought.

45 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Now that Great Whites are beaching

I think you're inaccurate here. Great Whites don't jump on beaches but since they want the Seals that are on the beach they will come close to it. The only good thing about "Jaws" is it has lead to scientific study of these animals. In truth they're no worse than a hungry lion or tiger. But I stay away from jungles. Now everyone has to stay out of the oceans.

On 7/16/2020 at 11:10 AM, Iamnikki said:

For the past days, I've been struggling with anger.

I consider anger something to be avoided as much as possible, but sometimes it happens. It is a part of life, not a part we enjoy but it's part of being human. For some people anger disappears rather quickly but for others it can take a longer time.

I think you're asking if it's okay to feel anger and yes it is. Although even though you have to feel it that doesn't mean you should act on it. But if you refuse to acknowledge that you feel angry then the emotion can twist inside you and cause nightmares or other unwanted behavior. It can even cause you to become physically sick, we call this psychosomatic illness. When this happens the symptoms are real but there's no disease present. This is why I say allow yourself to feel the anger but don't do what the anger makes you feel like doing. Eventually it shall pass. Some people let the anger become what defines them as a person, don't do that. But it's okay to feel it.

4 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

If you are talking about the political left, I think of them as those who put self-aggrandization above service to the Lord.

I suppose I am talking about the political left. The people I'm referring to probably don't even believe God is real so they can't be in service to Him.

I expected to hear someone say they're the Illuminati.

I don't think they are of the Democratic party but the dems have many more leftists than the Republicans. But if I knew I wouldn't have asked. The Left I've heard of wants to destroy America and all we hold dear. They would end free speech and I'm not sure which other freedoms they would do away with. They seem to want socialism to be the law of the land. I know they have not understood what happens with socialism. Theoretically socialism is a good idea. When I was 28 I envisioned a socialistic society where everyone had enough, no one had too much, but everyone said I was wrong. I was wrong. The idea is good but given human nature, it doesn't work. Socialism can only work if someone as fair as God is in charge. Not only would God have to be the leader but every member would have to be as committed to that society as we consider the Holy angels to be committed to the Sovereign Lord. It can never happen on earth. So I ask again

Who are the people known as the Left?

This is a scary post. But I read all of it and the best advice is still try not to catch the virus. I've said this all along. I don't get crazy over it but I take precautions. I wear a mask and I try not to get too close to folks I don't know. I've also been avoiding going on a bus since this started. I'm having to spend more money to use cabs without the bus, but fortunately we were given some extra money. We should all try to be safe. I do get upset when I see people congregate especially without masks.

12 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

And I pray the world as a whole will turn from our wicked ways and seek forgiveness so that our land will be  healed.

And this is the 64 billion dollar question, isn't it. I've been praying for this all along but so far I don't see or hear evidence of it. It is troubling.

I'm glad you're enjoying all this, that just shows how different we all are. It also shows how God can bring good out of a bad situation. But if it goes on too long it may turn sour. Since I'm a disabled senior citizen my life is almost exactly the same as it was before. I don't like wearing a mask but they seem to help, so I'm not complaining. 

11 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Moses told the Hebrew to isolate the people with contagious disease, which is the same thing as lock down and social distancing.

I'm not so sure of this. It's certainly the same idea but I'm wondering if they are the same. Considering what's happening to the economy I'm now wondering if the lockdown is necessary. I am convinced of the wisdom of social distancing, I even believe in masks. Although I am thinking we should be wearing the N-95 masks. I mean since we're going to wear them shouldn't we wear the most protective ones. I know we don't have them, but this virus looks like it's going to be here for quite some time. From what I've seen so far, they can produce those masks in a few months. I wish I had ideas about how to fix the economy.

7 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Take heed lest you be found not serving the lord.

Wayne, why don't you elaborate on what you mean by serving the Lord? This seems to be the issue nowadays, how do we serve God. 

This is too much. At least I don't go swimming anymore but I did as of 10 yrs ago. They have had to close the south shore beaches off of Long Island NY lately because sharks are being seen, close to shore. Usually they are Bull sharks, which is more aggressive than the Great White shark is. Today 2 were reported, one was 6' but the other was close to 13'. Either one can kill you if it takes a bite out of you. They also reported that a 63 yr old woman was killed while swimming off a Maine beach when a great white attacked her. The Great White shark is the animal made famous in the "Jaws" movies. Those movies scared everyone so much that fisherman started deliberately going after the White shark. Even though the white shark can grow to 35' there were never very many of them. And there were almost none up here. I was a Scuba diver in the 1970's and we knew most white sharks were down near Australia. Then they were declared an endangered species and could no longer be hunted. But now there's too many of them. It seems their favorite food are seals and there are a lot of seals north of Long Island.

  As I've said before, I'm not big into the whole End Times stuff. This is because I was disappointed twice already by believing that Jesus would be back. I've resigned myself to the idea that He probably won't return in my lifetime. Whether He does or not, what I'm concerned about right now is His statement on "this is the beginning of sorrows". So, coronavirus, violence in the streets, our political unrest because the Left doesn't like Trump, and now sharks so close to shore you better not go in the water. And since I was a diver I can tell you the water up here is so dirty there can be a shark 6 feet away from you but you wouldn't see it. And before I close, they're talking about a bad hurricane season. Oh no, we're still licking our wounds from the 2012 hurricane.

25 minutes ago, Josheb said:

There's simply no way in all the heavens and earth the first century Thessalonians would have understood anything Paul wrote them to be related to twenty centuries in the future.

That's an excellent point Josheb. The longer you read the Scriptures the more you will realize they are true in many ways. Which makes a great case for the idea that an all powerful God inspired them.

I'm asking a serious question here. Until this year I never even thought about The Left then the virus happened and now violence. I hear talk of the Left but who would they be?  Obviously they are fanatics, possibly even crazy people. But I also consider the Nazis of WW2 to be crazy fanatics.

Let me hear what some of you have to say.

I have a few more thoughts about all this. If you scare easily please don't read anymore, I'm just speculating. I assume some of you played the video game "Deus Ex" about 20 yrs ago. I loved that game because it isn't linear, which was a new thing back then. I still play Deus Ex once every 10 yrs or so and recently realized what the story's really about. I hope and pray some madmen didn't decide to try and make what happens in Deus Ex happen for real. I consider it a very small possibility that the C-virus was man made. Although I think it's becoming clear that the Left is using the pandemic to try and get rid of Trump, the conservatives, and to destroy America. I find it hard to fathom the mentality of those who wish to live without the freedoms we enjoy. Such people are truly mad, as well as evil.

  There's also the notion that Earth has too many people and we have to get rid of some. This idea is more disturbing than Deus Ex. I just watched Avengers: Infinity War again. That movie is saying there are too many people and the bad guy decides he will eliminate 1/2 of them. (I still haven't seen the next movie, so I don't know the final outcome) 

  I just hope that no crazy people did this on purpose.

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

On 7/25/2020 at 12:45 PM, Mantis said:

I believe this is the beginning of the falling away mentioned in 2 thes 2:1-3. I don’t think we will ever be able to worship and gather like we once did. Jesus will come soon.

I disagree. 

I also disagree. If Mantis means we won't be able to worship as we once did, ever again, due to the virus then I really disagree. I don't like what I'm going to say, but here's what I currently think. Eventually we will either get this virus under control using vaccines and meds, or first many will die but those who don't will have a resistance to the virus. When I researched the Black Death plague I was surprised to read that those germs are still with us. We need to understand this because so far very few have died from Covid-19. I copied this from Wikipedia: 

The Black Death (also known as the Pestilence, the Great Mortality, or the Plague) was the deadliest pandemic recorded in human history. The Black Death resulted in the deaths of up to 75–200 million people in Eurasia and North Africa, peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351.   

   Look at that, even just 75 million deaths in a 4 yr period is way more than what's likely to happen now. What's more, we can reduce the deaths with masks and social distancing. I see here in NY how we cut the hospital cases way down using masks and social distance, so it works. Perhaps those at greater risk should wear the N95 mask. We need to start making them. It won't take long, 1 or 2 months.

As to the scripture in 2 Thess, for that to be happening the man of lawlessness has to appear. I don't think he's here yet.

I think life will continue, yes life will change but I don't think it's over just yet.

I would not consider the U.S. government to be a synagogue of Satan. That doesn't mean that our government or politicians are Holy but neither are they totally evil. I mean some politicians are evil but others aren't. And even though they often do the wrong things, many are trying to do the right things.

On 5/16/2020 at 8:46 AM, Alive said:

Eph. 3:14   For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,

God is always understood best when we keep Him simple. Just bow before Him.

On 5/16/2020 at 8:46 AM, Alive said:

16 that according to the riches of his glory

And this is why we bow before Him, because He is rich in glory.

7 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Your second paragraph, I  however believe Christ and the message of the cross is for all mankind,

You are quite correct that the message is for anyone but not everyone can or will accept it. And I emphasize accept it, not understand it. Many a New Ager can't understand the mystery of the cross so they turn to Eastern beliefs which are more human in many ways. I had a cousin I was as close to as a brother who became New Age in 1990. I had to refute his theories until he finally passed away in 2014. I understood his ideas but I never believed them. I consider that to be the proof of the presence of the Holy Spirit in me. Because from a logical pov Eastern and scientific theories of God make more sense than the Bible does. Nevertheless, they're wrong. One issue nonbelievers often cite is how can an all loving God allow so many people to be lost. This is a whole different issue and I'm not going to try and answer it in this thread. I will only say that part of the problem (and answer) is the erroneous pagan belief that man has an immortal soul. The Bible never says that man's soul will live forever. Quite to the contrary, the Bible says man can only have eternal life through the Lord Jesus. Only by accepting Him and then doing our best to obey Him can we hope to have our soul's live forever. (this is hard to believe especially for ex-Catholics who are taught we have eternal souls as children. This confused me for decades until I read up on the early Church fathers and learned most of them were pagan before they were Christian)

But I have gone completely off topic.