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Dear nebula - The information you want is on the link. I see no reason why I should re-write the article here for your benifit.

I would agree, as I stated in my last post! There is, however, a new reality of this garden or orchard that will be realized in the Millennial Kingdom. This is the fulfillment of

There are new discoveries everyday in the area of archaeology and Biblical studies - why the daunting scepticism? I have, read this: http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/modules....ndex&page_id=14 Jesus said to watch and wait - I happen to believ that biblical studies are part of the watching! I have defined this isue throughout this thread. Read Posts 11, 12, 29, 33, 35, 37, 42, 49, 50

The garden as it was in Genesis 2-3 will never exist as it did, but Eden's river will flow again. http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/modules....ndex&page_id=14

I'm not the first! Rabbinical tradition has stated for thousands of years that Eden was originally in Israel. See Here: http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/modules....ndex&page_id=21 Conservative evangelical scholar Dr. John Sailhamer has recently published a booked called "Genesis Unbound" where he contends Eden was in the region we understand as Israel. See Here http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/genesis.html Beloved conservative apologist and scholar Ernest L. Martin believed Eden was in the geographic region of Israel. See Here: http://askelm.com/doctrine/d040301.htm I've never suggested Eden could be found today! It is time!

I responded a few times earlier in this thread as to why I do not believe Eden was in Iraq. Check them out! There are two trees in this story of beginnings - one was great and majestic (Ezekiel 31) and the other was just a tender shoot (Isaiah 53:2). Eden's river will flow again (Ezekiel 47) and when it does, the Jewish people will see their messiah and believe (Zechariah 14). Do you really think that these images we see here first in Genesis 2 and then permeate the rest of the Bible would have any significance if they were anywhere else but Israel? New Biblical evidence for Eden to have been in Israel can be found here: http://faith-friends.com/Eden/modules.php?...ndex&page_id=19

The first three chapters of Genesis are far more than unassuming folklore, devised to amuse and instruct our youth with mythological tails of earth's origins, and humanities fall from innocence. In the context of Eden's Israeli location, they are a mountain cast into a calm sea! They are the first wave, which moves and ripples throughout the pages of scripture, and echoes into the heart of the Adam in all of us. They are a roadmap that permeates the Bible and is entrenched into our very sub consciousness, providing landmarks and beacons to chart our way back home. The river of Eden will flow again! And when it flows, all the Jewish people will see their Messiah and Believe. See Here http://faith-friends.com/Eden/modules.php?...ndex&page_id=14

Dear WhySoBlind The implied purpose in the Biblical text for Noah to send out the birds in the Great Flood Narrative was to find dry land. The dove that came back with a leaf didn

I know this is the standard creation science perspective, but it

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Ouch! I

That

No I don't, and I tried to find something on the internet on this, but without sucess. I did find these! http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/ti020006.htm http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000189.html http://www.hyperfaith.bun.com/benny-hinn-articles.htm

Here in Canada, the news magazine show W5 (like 60 Minutes) has just done an expos

I know! We're going to be wondering about this one forever You are not the first to mention this - we will try and improve this in the next few days Blessings

Ok, I'll bite. How does this affect those issues then? - On Pneumatology There are many metaphors in the Bible that provide helpful descriptions of the Holy Spirit, like: The breadth of God, the wind, or the dove we see as we read about Jesus being baptized. The most pervasive metaphor throughout scripture, however, is "Water" or "Living Water". Jesus said, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me, and let the one who believes in me drink. Just as the scripture says, From within him will flow rivers of living water. Now he said this about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were going to receive, for the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified" (John 7:37-39). Water finds an incredibly prominent role through the pages of scripture, with references of water, wells, springs and rivers being mentioned hundreds of times. Without delay, we see this prominence as water is immediately brought up in the first few verses of the Bible. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water" (Genesis 1:1, 2). Notice here how the Spirit of God is differentiated from the "watery deep", or salt water oceans. This is an important principle of scripture, for the Holly Spirit is only ever associated with, clean, pure and moving waters. Dirty, stagnant, and salty waters mentioned in scripture are a portrait of sin! Where there is sin, death and despair, God applies the living water, the cleansing and renewal agent of the Holy Spirit. We see this principle everywhere throughout scripture: After man's fall - the earth is deluged (Genesis 6-8), When the Israelites were dieing in the desert - Moses made water came out of a rock (Numbers 20), Before the Israelites could enter the Promised Land - they had to pass through the waters of the Jordan River (Joshua 3), Before a Priest could participate in the sacrificial system - they had to be washed in water (Leviticus 8:6), When Elijah humiliates the four hundred & fifty prophets of Baal, he poured out water on the alter of God (1 Kings 18), When Elisha asked for double Elisha's spirit, they walked through the waters together (2Kings 2). From the washing of animals about to be sacrificed, to the ceremonial cleansing of diseased people, water can be seen running throughout the pages of scripture. Not only is water notably used throughout scripture for cleansing, restoration, and empowerment, the concept of springs or fountains of water welling up to satisfy the thirsty, supply us with an essential picture of the work and character of God. God is called "the fountain of life" in Psalms 36:9, Jeremiah 17:13, and He even calls himself the fountain of life in Jeremiah 2:11. The certain promise of fountains of water welling up in the desert to bless the people of Israel if they would only turn back to Him, are made time after time in: (Isaiah 41:19, Isaiah 43:20, Isaiah 44:3, Isaiah 49:10, Isaiah 58:11) And now, this very image of water welling up into the life of a believer is made in: (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, John 1:26, John 7:37, Acts 11:15, Revelation 21:6) "But whoever drinks some of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again, but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life" (John 4:14). Moving back to our river in Eden, it seems abundantly clear that this river was far more than just your average river. It may have indeed been a physical river, but Eden's river was a type of the Holy Spirit, breathing life into the whole region surrounding the orchard with the tree of life. This type sees its antitype fulfilled in the New Jerusalem described in the book of Revelation. Here we see two trees of life on ether side of the river, rather than a tree of life and a tree of the knowledge of good & evil. "Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, water as clear as crystal pouring out from the throne of God and of the Lamb, flowing down the middle of the city's main street. On each side of the river is the tree of life producing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month of the year. Its leaves are for the healing of the nations" (Revelation 22:1, 2). This fulfilled type of Eden's river in the New Jerusalem is prophesied in the Old Testament. We see a glimpse of this future "river of life" in Zechariah 14:8, but we find some real insight into the nature and purpose of this river in Ezekiel 47. In a vision, Ezekiel saw water from under the threshold of the temple, pouring out the south side and flowing toward the east (Ezekiel 47:1). This is the very same direction our river in Eden flows in the Genesis account. "The Lord God planted an orchard in the east, in Eden . . . Now a river flows from Eden to water the orchard" (Genesis 2:8, 10). Here we can imagine a region called Eden with the orchard planted in the eastern side of the region, and the river flowing from the west into the orchard in the east. Later in the vision, Ezekiel sees trees on ether side of the river that marry the Genesis account together with the Revelation account. "When I had returned, on the banks of the river, on both sides, I saw a vast number of trees . . . On both sides of the river's banks, every kind of tree will grow for food. Their leaves will not wither nor will their fruit fail, but they will bear fruit every month, because their water source flows from the sanctuary, Their fruit will be for food and their leaves for healing." (Ezekiel 47:7, 12) Ezekiel pictures an orchard with many trees like the one we see in Genesis 2:9, and he also describes a monthly harvest and the fact that the leaves were for the healing as we see in Revelation 22:2, effectively tying the type together with the anti-type. The river Ezekiel sees flowing from the temple heads eastward and when it hits the Dead Sea, the waters of this sea that epitomize death, explode with life. "These waters go out toward the eastern region and flow down into the Arabah; when they enter the sea, where the sea is stagnant, the waters become fresh. Every living creature which swarms where the river flows will live; there will be many fish, for these waters flow there. It will become fresh and everything will live where the river flows" (Ezekiel 47:8, 9). The vertical descent of this river is astonishing, from the top of Mount Moriah at about 2400 ft above sea level, down to the Dead Sea, the lowest elevation on the face of the earth at about 1400 ft below sea level. This is almost double the vertical drop of the highest water falls in the world, and gives us an image of the Holy Spirit being sent down from heaven to the nations - as salt water represents sin & death, and the sea is a figurative term in the Bible for the nations. The waters of the Dead Sea couldn't hold any more salt than they do. They're absolutely saturated with about 1/3 of the waters content containing salt. This makes the water so heavy that even small waves hit the side of boats like hammers, and its density forces bobbing swimmers who attempt to dive down under the water back to the surface. Despite the high saline content of the Dead Sea, metal objects which you would expect to corrode quickly in a brackish environment like this, never seem to rust because there's absolutely no oxygen in the water. Fish that are swept down from the Jordon River die without delay as they enter into this sea, and there's a continual commotion of birds flying down from the sky to feast on their flesh as their dead bodies rise to the surface. The fish are people and the birds are, "the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens" (Ephesians 6:12), and as we enter into the realm of sin, we die spiritually and become helpless victims to the forces of evil. If it were not for the river of life, this drama of death and enslavement to Satan scheme would play out forever. Every one of these rivers listed here in Genesis chapter 2 would be the ultimate destiny of the exile and punishment of the Hebrew people as a result of their idolatry and unbelief. They were slaves beside the river Gihon before the Exodus, they would walk beside the waters of Pishon during their wondering in the wilderness, the 10 northern tribes were taken captive to the banks of the Tigris River during the Assyrian invasion, and Southern Israel was carried away to the shores of the Euphrates during the Babylonian captivity. These rivers had enormous spiritual implication, as though God was reaching out to them through His Spirit, nourishing and sustaining His people during their greatest times of tribulation. For these waters of encouragement emanated from their land of promise, and would restore a remnant to return back home. So the River in Eden was type of the Holy Spirit, more fully expressed in Ezekiel 47, and seeing its

This is a very relevant verse O'Dannyboy, as it is repeated over and over again in: Exo 13:5, Exo 33:3, Lev 20:24, Num 13:27, Num 14:8, Num 16:13, Deu 6:3, Deu 11:9, Deu 26:9, Deu 26:15, Deu 27:3, Deu 31:20, Josh 5:6, Jer 11:5, Jer 33:22, Eze 20:6 . This is the land where the Israelites would be fed by God Himself, and the food is God

God bless you brother, you are a thoughtful Christian man. You do not have to agree with my proposition for me to be blessed by your passion or ideas. That being said, I believe Pishon was in Arabia and the Gihon was the Nile for reasons already posted in this thread. Some of the Biblical reasons for this conviction follow: Back to Paradise Eden was a special place prepared by God for earth's human inhabitants to experience His presence, His provision and His pleasure. "Eden is the biblical paradigm of the original state of accord between God, man, and nature. It represents a state of harmony and peace that, since the hour its gates were closed, the world has never known" Rabbi Dovid Sears. In the same way, the Promised Land was given to Abraham and his decedents as a special dowry, authenticating the covenant relationship God was making with this, His chosen people. Through this land, God intended to bless His people with His presence, His provision and His pleasure, making them a light to the rest of the world, but they failed just as their forefathers did. As Adam and Eve sinned and were sent out of the Garden, and then later Cain sinned and was sent away from the land of Eden altogether, so the Israelites are pictured as being expelled from their land of promise over and over again. When the Hebrew people turned back to God, His promise was always clear: "For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody." (Isaiah 51:3) It is not necessary that they follow, but it would be reasonable to maintain that the very ground which saw the first sin & fall, be the very place of redemption and restoration. Why else would Israel be the Promised Land? Why else would God call Abraham from the east to this land if his purpose was not to defeat evil on the grounds of it's victory? Identical Boundaries Defined Eden & Israel The boundaries describing the rivers in Genesis 2:10-14 are the very same boundaries that define the Promised Land in Genesis 15. The land of Eden is described to be located within the boundaries of the Tigris and Euphrates to the north, to the Gihon or Egypt to the south. In Genesis 15:18, we find the land promised Land given to Abraham is defined by these same two rivers, the Euphrates and the River of Egypt. The Mountain of God It doesn't require a lot of imagination to come to the conclusion that the river from Eden had to flow down from a mountain, as it ended up feeding the headwaters of four other rivers. If this is the case, where was this mountain? The presence of God is often associated with mountains as: Moses retrieved the Decalogue from Mt. Sinai, Elijah shames the 400 prophets of Baal by bringing down fire from Heaven on Mt Carmel (Hebrew word for Carmel means orchard), and Jesus was transfigured on a high mountain (possibly Mt Hermon at the northern end of Israel by Lebanon). Mount Moriah is the King of the mountains as: a) God provided a substitute for Abraham?s son here (Genesis 22), b) Solomon built the first temple here (2 Chronicles c) Ezekiel had a awesome vision of God and the wheel within a wheel here (Ezekiel 8-10) d) It was here that a remnant of Israel returned from captivity in Persia (Ezra) e) It was here that Jesus was whipped and beaten like Ornan's threshing floor, shedding his blood for a sinful and rebellious world. Mount Moriah is present in scripture as ?God?s Holy Mountain?, and during Ezekiel?s prophecy against the King of Tyre in (Ezekiel 28:13, 14), Eden is tied together with the "holy mountain of God". Other verses that seem to tie "God's Holy Mountain" together with Eden are: Joel 2:1-3, and Micah 4:1-4, and the future propagation of this mountain (or Eden) throughout the rest of the world is also tied together with the Kingdom of God (Isaiah 25:6-9; 56:3-8, Daniel 2:34-35, 44-45) Eden in the Temple Dr Ernest L. Martin seems to be one of the first Bible scholars to have associated the Garden of Eden with the tabernacle God had Moses build, and the temple on Mt. Moriah. We also believe that Eden's river flowed from the alter rock in the temple area, or what was Ornan's Threshing Floor (a picture of the rock that Moses struck in the desert, and of Jesus being whipped and beaten) and went out into the Garden, which was in the Mt of Olives. The tree of life in Eden would have been located where Jesus died on a cross, or in Bethany where Jesus made his home in Judea, not in the Holy of Holies. Another difference in our perspective with Dr Martin?s Eden temple is the inclusion of the Genesis 1 account. We also see the temple carrying the physical representative of this first creation account, as: Day 1 - Structuring of space (light/darkness) Day 2 - Structuring of the sky and sea. Day 3 - Structuring of the land. Day 4 - Patterning of space's residents (Sun, Moon, stars). Day 5 - Patterning of the sky and sea?s residents (birds, insects, fish). Day 6 - Patterning of the land?s residents (animals and humans). Day 7 ? Focus on God?s rest (Heaven) Each of these spheres of creative powere and life are all the areas in which God extends His dominion. We see the expresion of the various spheres in the tabernacle/temple as: outside the temple is representative of the dwelling place of humanity (or the earthy sphere of God?s creation), the outer courts of the temple are open to the sky with a giant bowl called "The Sea" representing the realm of the atmosphere and sea, the inter courts are represented by space with images of the sun, moon and stars sewn into the fabric of the temple's veil, and the Holy of Holies is representative of the very dwelling place of God (Heaven). Also, as Dr Martin points out, the temple is a physical representative of the Eden account in Genesis 2, as: - The Tabernacle and the Temple always faced east as did the entrance to Eden, and the eastern gates of the Temple were prophesied to be sealed until the restoration of all things by the Messiah. - The veil in the temple which separated the inter court from the Holy of Holies had two cherubim's embroidered into the cloth, along with a blossoming almond tree. There are only two places in all of scripture where cherubim are seen guarding the entrance of anything, and blossoming almond tree clearly represents the Tree of Life. As a final point, the image of trees seen here in Eden is a pervasive metaphor observed throughout the rest of scripture. Rebellious Israel is always pictured as a fruitless fig tree, and the obedient believer is viewed as a productive vine. The Bible differentiates between what are consistently considered to be good trees and bad trees, with the palm and olive trees always representing good, and evergreens always representing evil (the Israelites placed their idols and sacrificed to them under these trees). The worst of all the evergreens, the great cedar in Ezekiel 31, is evil personified and represents both Satan and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So it?s no coincidence that the temple was made out of cedar, with palm trees carved into the wood, for these two trees represented the tree of life (Palm), and the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Cedar) - symbolizing the redemptive process of God, transforming that which is in the midst of evil, into life. Direct Bible Refferences Associating Eden & Israel Gen.13:10: "And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it [was] well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, [even] as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar." - Upon entering into the land, Abraham & Lot saw the region and compared the area to the Garden of Eden. 2Kings 19:12 "Have the gods of the nations delivered them which my fathers have destroyed; [as] Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph, and the children of Eden which [were] in Thelasar?" - It states that Cain went to the land of Nod, East of Eden after he was judged for murdering his brother (Genesis 4:16). Here we see the Children of Eden in Thelasar, which was a province captured by the Assyrian and appears in Assyrian inscriptions as Tilasuri. This area just happens to be due east of Israel. Jeremiah 31:12 "Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all." - The restoration of Israel will be like returning to the Garden of Eden. Lamentations 2:6: "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as [if it were of] a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest." - Jeremiah was lamenting that Israel was being destroyed just as the Garden of Eden had before it. Ezekiel 31:16, 18 "I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth . . . To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with [them that be] slain by the sword. This [is] Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD." - Lebanon, representing by Assyria (possibly because of the famous Assyria epic of Gilgamesh and his heroic trip to Cedar Mountain in Lebanon), would be cut down together with the trees of Eden, represented by Judah and their alliance with the Pharaoh of Egypt. This prophecy would ultimately be fulfilled by the kingdoms of Babylonia and Persia. Ezekiel 36:35 "And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited." - Disobedient Israel experiences the same fate as the Garden of Eden. Amose 1:5 "I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD." - The Syrians who had sovereign rule over Israel at that time are said to, ?holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden? Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." - The Greek word here for paradise is paradeisos and comes from the Hebrew word, pardace which means "an orchard or and enclosed garden?. Jesus was telling the thief that he was going to be taken to Eden.

Ayin I know this is a different spin on traditional Hermeneutics, and I

I know this is the standard creation science perspective, but it

A review of the most commonly associated regions for Eden's original location are found in the www.faith-friends.com/Eden FAQ. All these traditionally accepted regions have desperate geographical challenges to make them viable candidates for Eden's original location, and advocates of these sites have to invariably concoct the missing rivers listed in Genesis 2. However, after an honest reading the Genesis account of the rivers that define Eden's location, and knowing that the audience for this narrative was the Hebrew people shortly after they had escaped captivity in Egypt, the description here in Genesis 2 seems far to elaborate to be anything but a detailed report of where these four rivers were understood to emanated. The location of the Tigris and Euphrates in present day Iraq, Seria, and Eastern Turkey are undisputed. The problem scholars have had is accepting the clearly defined location of these other two rivers. So where are they? "The name of the first [is] Pison: that [is] it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where [there is] gold; And the gold of that land [is] good: there [is] bdellium and the onyx stone." (Genesis 2:11, 12). The name of the river Pishon itself is not very helpful, but the name of the people Havilah identifies the area. The people are Arabian, as the Havilah are referenced in Genesis 25:18, and 1 Samuel 15:7, and are thought to be one of the Joktanean tribes in northern Arabia. During the time of the Exodus, there was a location to the east of Medina called Mahd ed Dahab, "the Cradle of Gold", towards the middle of the Arabian Peninsula, that was renowned for its pure gold and today remains one of the only areas in Saudi Arabia where gold is still produced. The Hebrews understood this gold of Ophir to be of the most excellent quality (Job 22:24), and later the Greeks would extol Arabia's gold as the kind so pure that it didn't need to smelted. Southern Arabia was also one of the few places in the world where bdellium was produced, and the semiprecious onyx can still be found throughout the Arabian Shield. Affirming the Biblical reference of Arabia of Pishon, there was a recent discovery of an enormous ancient river bed in Arabia through the use of Shuttle Imaging Radar photos, This 3 to 6 Km wide river had started in the Hijaz Mountains near Medina and flowed 530 miles northeast into the Persian Gulf, just off the coast of present-day Kuwait. This matches our Biblical and historical information perfectly, so we can assume this first river mentioned in this Genesis 2 was obviously in Arabia, and the headwaters for this river would have been all around the Medina area. "The name of the second river is Gihon; it runs through the entire land of Cush" (Genesis 2:13). This time the name of the river is very helpful, as the ancient historian Josephus and the apocrypha book of Jubilees both define this river Gihon to be the Nile. As further conformation of this African location, this word Cush or Kuwsh in the Hebrew means black, and is mentioned 29 times in scripture. These references to Cush invariably refer to the land south of Egypt in Africa. So we have iron clad evidence for the Gihon River's location, and even the Tigris and Euphrates rivers would be less verifiable - this is the most recognizable river in the Biblical account. You can see the scholar's dilemma in trying to work with these regions. How do you connect rivers with headwaters in eastern Turkey, Arabia, and Africa? How does this one river in Eden feed the headwaters of four rivers that are thousands of kilometers apart? The problem with these scholars perspective, however, is that they never asked themselves a far more fundamental question in the first place. How does one river ever feed the headwaters of four other rivers? Hydrology rarely works this way! The top of any river basin always has many rivers that funnel down into one river, not the other way around. A river doesn't spill a little bit of its water into one channel, go along a bit further and spill some more, until it feeds the headwaters of four different rivers. It empties itself out into that very first channel! If we can solve the mystery of Eden's location, we need to stop thinking about a process of one river feeding four other rivers over the surface of the earth. This fact provides us with our first real clue in the hunt for Eden, and the mechanism is clearly explained earlier in Genesis 2. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. Gen 2:6 So if we can imagine the Eden River acting as the initial water resource, flowing down below the earth's surface to eventually feed the springs of every main river resource known to the Hebrew people. In the center of these four rivers is Israel, with two great rivers to the north, and two great rivers to the south. According to our model, if you were to send water down into the ground to ultimately feed what would become some of the greatest rivers in the world, one of the best place on the planet to do this would be to direct those waters into this Dead Sea Rift, which descends down not only 1400 ft below sea level, but continues down another 1200 ft to the bottom of the sea. In fact, all of the rivers mentioned in Genesis 2 are in top of, or in close proximity to the "Great Rift Valley", which the Dead Sea is just a part of. The headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers come remarkably close together in area known as Elazig in Turkey, just 150 Km from the top of the Great Rift Valley in Kahramanmaras. The Great Rift Valley then moves down through Israel and south along both sides of the Red Sea, following the coast of western Arabia to supply Pishon in Medina. Then, continuing south into Africa the rift moves along both sides of Lake Victoria, which is the location of Gihon's headwaters or what is better know as The Nile. The dense salt water lake in the Dead Sea is a more recent geologic feature so the river from Mt Moriah would have flowed unimpeded down into this deep rift. The Great Rift Valley provides us with what?s known as a "Fractured Hydrogeologic Setting" where you can have groundwater movement along fractures, faults, joints and bedding planes. Most of the rock forms along the Great Rift Valley are limestones and dolomites, which are ideal for developing subterranean hydrological systems, as the surrounding rocks in the rift would have dissolved to produce what's known as a karst topographical setting. Depending on the timeframe and conditions, underground rivers would have soon formed along the rift as we see with the Dumanli spring in Turkey (largest karstic spring in the world), and the Je

I would graciously disagree with this perspective. As Dr Ernest L. Martin would contend, Eden is a type of the Temple, and both are a type of heaven. As we see two trees of life represented in the New Jerusalem in Revelation 22, we have a hint that this tree was more than just a tree planted in the garden

Eden was not in Iraq! To accept Southern Iraq as a possible location for Eden, you need to imagine that the people of Moses time saw river heads like the heads of serpents, and the heads were where the rivers spilled out into the ocean or a sea. However, the biblical reference to where Eden

This is just a typo guys! Don't get all crazy on me here! Earlier in the same paragraph I assigned Satan the masculine genitive. In the future, I would suggest you ask for clarification like Ted has here rather than assume the worst.

The real evidence for Eden's Israeli location flows out of the Bible, and the Biblical arguments for this proposition can be viewed here: http://www.faith-friends.com/Eden/modules....ndex&page_id=19 It's hard to say why so many Christians have glossed over the many images of this most profound story of beginnings. In doing so, they have overlook a central ingredient of their faith, and a vital proposition in the interpretation of scripture. I started this topic as I worked through a study on the Holy Spirit as living water is the primary metaphor for the Holy Spirit throughout scripture. As I went through all the verses in the Bible on water, wells, rivers, and springs, the river in Eden clearly became a type of the Holy Spirit in my mind, and the picture of Eden's orchard became a picture of the Christian life. 1) The River - Representing our life in the Spirit - having our soul cleansed as we spend time with God in prayer and worship, 2) The Tree - Representing growing in the experiential knowledge of God - primarily communicated through God's word, 3) The Ground to work - Representing our life of service. One question you might ask on this issue is - Did God plant this tree, or did he plant the garden around where this tree was located? Trees are a pervasive metaphor in scripture and in one sense, we are all trees to God, as he requires us to be fruitful. There are good trees in scripture and bad trees. Rebellious Israel is always seen as a fruitless fig tree, but an earnest Israelite is seen as sitting under a fig tree waiting for the fruit to come. The four good trees in the Bible are: the palm tree (imagery of an oasis in the desert, and a symbol for worship), the olive tree (anointing oil