Gideon
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Posts posted by Gideon
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Many in the body of Christ have seen the words of Paul and James at odds with one another, even while believing that the Bible cannot contradict itself. It has to do with works...... fruits of our salvation. Here is what James is basically stating:
You show me your faith without your works and I will show you mine BY my works.
In today's spiritual climate, many people on cue will start shouting "legalism!" Let me be perfectly clear. We do not earn our salvation by works. Nor do we keep it by doing works. So how do we align James statement with grace? Where are the works he talks about to originate?
The answer? The indwelling Holy Spirit who has promised to cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure. God possessing us and acting as the master potter in our lives, changing us from self-centered individuals given to sin and displaying our fallen nature to love filled, joyful saints walking as overcomers in this life.
But this explanation of James might now line up more closely with Paul, but it in no way satisfies the dilemma. It exacerbates it many-fold. Why? Because it reveals our great lack.
We as His people, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, are supposed to love one another as Christ loved the church. We do not. Yet how many there are who try to defend our indefensible position. They lean upon our excuse that we are only human and no one is perfect. But we are not talking perfection but fruitfulness!
We are not called to do better once we are saved. Nor are we called to be nicer people. We are simply the lumps of clay that God has promised to fashion into masterpieces displaying his skills as a potter. What we are lacking is seeing the fulfillment of the promise our God has clearly made to us to fill us with spiritual fruits, to sanctify us wholly, body soul and spirit.
You see, it is to be by these changes that our God brings about in us, that the world can see the light of Jesus IN US, and those that love the light will come to the source of that light... Jesus Himself. And guys, it is time we admit we are far, far from that, as the world simply mocks us for our shallowness and religious hypocrisy.
We want to recoil in denial, but our actions speak far louder than any arguments we can muster. Here is the truth that most cannot admit..... yet. We cannot yet see it, but soon, our eyes will be opened to some harsh realities. Please understand, they will be hard to own up to, but to those who do, God comes with healing, hope, and yes, mind-blowing changes as to who we are and how we interact with the world around us. Ready?
We are those who draw near to Him with our lips but our hearts are far from Him.
We are those who are healed only slightly, saying 'peace, peace' when we have no peace
We are those possessing a form of godliness, but our lives deny the power of it to a world desperately in need of light from a city set on a hill.
We are playing church, with our hearts totally unburdened from the weight of men's eternal souls bound for an eternity without Christ.
We are the salt that has lost its savor, and currently, we are good for nothing but to be trodden underfoot by a world that despises our hypocrisy.
We are those whohear the Word "Laodecia" and our spiritual hackles go full ballistic, never realizing that such a response is exactly what the Laodecians would have done. Like them, we too claim that because we have grace, we need nothing when the very grace we say we love isxsupposed to teach us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts and to fill us with love for others, even our enemies.
Before you get too overwhelmed with hopelessness or awash with righteous anger, God has promised to restore what the cankerworm has eaten. He has assured us Hecwill pour out upon us the very same Spirit in the very same measure as He did on the early disciples. But we must know this. It will not just "happen". His move upon His own will happen as a response to our cry. Only when we finally have had enough of religion, of head knowledge of doctrines with no heart knowledge of servanthood, only when we see ourselves as wretched men, forgiven but still enslaved to our carnal natures, and no longer be willing to accept it, will God move upon us and set us free indeed, just as He promised.
Saints, a revival IS coming. An outpouring unprecedented since the day of pentecost. Tbe sheep and goats have been kept in the same pasture long enough. The valley of decision is fast approaching. Here one decision is to be made. Just one. Will we love our lives, our goals, our dreams, our religious correctness,our ndealt with and secret sins, or will we fall at the feet of our master, saying
As the Word tells us, the day is far spent, the night is at hand, and we are not still not saved. Oh, we may still be heaven bound, but with hearts bound to sin's power and grip. Free indeed is but a myth to us, for unbelief in our God's ability to deliver us from US now rules the roost. And the fox approaches.....
O Lord, hear us! Subdue our iniquities! Father, change us, fill us, free us, even as you promised!
Even so Lord Jesus, restore us to being your bride without spot or wrinkle, ready to meet her soon coning king.
Blessings, Gideon
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3 minutes ago, vic66 said:
What does God say can end a marriage?
God clearly says that the death of one of the marriage partners ends their marriage and frees them to marry another person. “So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man..” (Romans 7:3) , Jesus also said that death ends a marriage in His response to the Sadducees. “And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven'” Mark 12:24,25. We see from these verses that marriage is ended at death because it does not continue into eternity. In I Corinthians 7:39 God also says: “The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.”
Death is the only thing that I could find that God says ends a marriage so that the person is free to marry another person.
What does the “exception clause” mean?
There are two “exception clauses” on divorce in Matthew. One of the first things that I noticed is that they do not address the same thing. It is often implied that both “exception clauses” give permission for remarriage. The exception clause in Matthew 5:32 does not give an exception allowing remarriage. The exception only applies to whether the person initiating the divorce is responsible for causing their spouse to commit adultery. That exception does not permit divorce or remarriage. The last part of the verse, “and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery” removes any question that this exception clause allows remarriage after divorce. Matthew 5:32 states: “But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”
The second “exception clause” is in Matthew 19:9. Here Jesus says: “And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. I discovered that modern translators have altered this verse to make it say something totally different than what Jesus originally said. The NIV (and most modern translations) reads totally different than the KJV. The first major change in the NIV is the incorrect twisting of the “translation” of the Greek word pornea as “marital unfaithfulness.” By changing the meaning of pornea, the NIV opens wide the gate for divorce and remarriage in every divorce situation. In every divorce case at least one spouse is maritally unfaithful to their spouse. The very act of one spouse divorcing their mate is a serious act of marital unfaithfulness. In many divorce cases both spouses view the other as being maritally unfaithful in some way. Therefore, the NIV wrongly gives permission for at least one spouse to get remarried in every divorce situation!
The second major change to this passage is modern translations that remove of the last third of the verse, the phrase: “and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. ” It is wrong to remove words of Jesus from the Bible. This error has led many men and women into the sin of adultery, thinking that it was permissible to remarry. The Church can make changes in the version of the Word of God that it uses, but it can not change the true Word of God that Jesus will use to define sin on Judgment Day.
Divorce and remarriage was common in the Roman Empire in New Testament times and the centuries following; however, I was not able to find this “exception clause” in Matthew 19:9 in any of the writings of the early Christians in the first 300 years A.D. The early Christians always quoted Matthew 5:32, but never the reading we have in Matthew 19:9. I found this significant, because these men, speaking for the early Church did not understand Jesus to be giving an allowance for remarriage after divorce.
To translate the phrase “except for fornication” as “except for adultery”, giving adultery as grounds for divorce and remarriage has some problems. If a man’s wife committed adultery, how would her adultery keep him from committing adultery if he divorced her and remarried? Or to ask the question another way, is there any teaching or example in the Bible that would indicate that adultery by one marriage partner ends their marriage and makes them single again in God’s eyes? I have not found any Scriptural teaching or example where adultery ended a marriage, unless the spouse committing adultery was stoned. If he or she was stoned to death, that would end the marriage. Jesus’ words immediately following this exception clause make it clear that He was not giving permission to remarry after adultery. “And whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery” (He gave no exception). God considers the first marriage to be still valid even after a legal divorce and remarriage.
What then does the “exception clause” mean? Jesus was speaking to Jewish men, the Pharisees, in response to their question when He spoke these words in Matthew 19:9. Jesus said “Except it be for fornication and shall marry another.” Fornication is sexual relations with another unmarried person before one is married. The Jews required a man to write a certificate of divorce to end an engagement. We see this illustrated in the story of Joseph and Mary. Joseph believed that Mary had committed fornication with someone else and was planning to divorce her even though they were not yet married, when God stopped him. ( Matthew 1:19,20)
What Jesus said to these Jewish men, the Pharisees, in Matthew 19:9 is that divorce and remarriage is sin unless the divorce occurred in the engagement period. Even then the engagement could only be broken if the fiancée committed fornication with another person. Jesus said that if the man divorced his fiancée in the engagement period before marriage occurs, then it is permissible for him to marry another. The exception only applied to the Jewish custom requiring divorce to break an engagement. I could not find any evidence that the Roman law or custom required a certificate of divorce to break an engagement. We do not find the Matthew 19:9 “exception clause” repeated any other place in the Scriptures.
The teaching of the Rabbis in Jesus’ day
To correctly understand Jesus’ response to the Pharisees in Matthew 19, we need to understand the broader context and what positions the Jews had on divorce and remarriage in Jesus’ day. The Pharisees were testing Jesus to see which rabbinical school of thought Jesus would side with. The Roman society around them allowed divorce for any reason. In the Oral Torah, which the Jews in Jesus’ day held equal to the Old Testament Scriptures, is found three explanations (schools of thought) of what Moses meant as grounds for divorce. Usually it is stated that there were two schools of thought in Jesus’ day, but when I researched it in the Mishnah (The Oral Torah) I found there were three schools of thought. The third school of thought was “no fault” divorce – Rabbi Akiba
The positions of the following three rabbis are found in the Mishnah, Gittin p. 90a, 90b:
- Beth Shammai – If he has found her guilty of some unseemly conduct. (Divorce is allowed in the case of adultery)
- Beth Hillel – even if she has merely spoiled his food. (Divorce is allowed for any reason)
- Rabbi Akiba – even if he finds another woman more beautiful than she is. (No fault divorce)
The Pharisees were questioning Jesus to see which explanation Jesus would side with. They asked Jesus if divorce was lawful for “any reason”. The disciple’s response clearly indicates that in Jesus’ response He did not side with any of the rabbis’ explanations in the Oral Torah. Jesus’ exception for divorce was much narrower than “marital unfaithfulness” (NIV). The response of the disciples tells us that Jesus’ response to the Pharisees did not support any of the schools of thought in the Oral Torah. “His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.” Matthew 19:10. Jesus’ response to the Pharisees also tells us that He did not side with any of the Rabbis interpretations of Deuteronomy 24:1-4 in the Oral Torah. He said that the permission allowing divorce and remarriage had never been God’s will. “From the beginning it was not so.”
How divorce among Christians is disobedience to God’s command not to take a believer to court.
1Corinthians 6:1-11 “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
How Divorce Removes One From Fellowship With God –The need for Forgiveness and Reconciliation
God tells us that divorce removes one from fellowship with Him. In Malachi 2:13 He says, “And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand. 14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.”
In a divorce situation there is a lot of hurt, anger, and bitterness that occurs between the couple, the children, the extended families of the couple (their parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, and cousins) and friends. These deep wounds of a divorce affects those impacted by the divorce for the rest of their lives. God makes it clear that these wrongs and offenses need to be repented of and reconciliation needs to occur.
Matthew 5:23,24 “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.”
God also makes it clear that one needs to forgive any offenses that the other spouse has committed. All bitterness, anger, and hatred need to be repented of and put away. This is what God says:
Mark. 11:25,26″ And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.” (The last sentence has been removed in the NIV!)
Matthew 6:14,15 “For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 18:35 “So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.” (“his trespasses” has been removed in the NIV. Immediately following this verse is Jesus teaching on divorce and remarriage.)
I John 2:9-11 “He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.”
I John 4:20,21 “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.”
To put this verse in the context of divorce, if a person does not love their husband or wife whom they have seen, how can they love God whom they have not seen?
Your last statement is a sad and twisted attempt to bolster your argument. For many reasons, a man or woman cn stop loving their spouse. It happens. Does this mean divorce them? Not at all. Work at it. Pray. Get counseling. God hates divorce.
However, to try to put the ultimate guilt upon them that they then do not really love the Lord is not only wrong, but mean.
Gids
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On 6/3/2020 at 3:20 PM, JTC said:
We all know how easily some people say things that aren't true, but was it always like this, maybe not. I recently took the online course about the book of Acts, offered by DTS. The professor wanted to explain why Paul tells the story of what happened to him on the road to Damascus 3 separate times and the reason surprised me. The professor said that 2000 yrs ago a person's verbal words were considered to be honest and reliable, more reliable than the written word, or someone else telling you the story 2nd or 3rd hand. That's interesting in more ways than the professor meant it to be. This becomes critical when applied to salvation. I'm going to guess that 2000 yrs ago a person would never say that someone was his Lord unless he absolutely meant it. 2000 yrs ago a person could be killed for declaring someone, other than the king, as his Lord. Therefore, I'll also guess that anyone who publicly declared that Jesus was his Lord knew very well that he was expected to prove that statement with his actions. Furthermore I think that 2000 yrs ago a person's actions were more suspected to have false motives than his words were. This would be especially true if you were a slave and you had to do many things you didn't agree with just so you weren't beaten. It's very curious how things managed to turn around by 180 degrees, in the last 2000 years. This doesn't change how or why we get saved but it does reinforce the idea that your behavior proves you are saved.
Hi again JCT. I apologize for my last post. The content is truth, but this is your post, and I did not mean to hijack it. If you wish, I will be glad to delete it and post it as a stand alone. I realize the words I wrote can sound harsh, bur any who know me well also know it was written with tears and a burdened heart.
blessings,
Gideon
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On 6/3/2020 at 3:20 PM, JTC said:
We all know how easily some people say things that aren't true, but was it always like this, maybe not. I recently took the online course about the book of Acts, offered by DTS. The professor wanted to explain why Paul tells the story of what happened to him on the road to Damascus 3 separate times and the reason surprised me. The professor said that 2000 yrs ago a person's verbal words were considered to be honest and reliable, more reliable than the written word, or someone else telling you the story 2nd or 3rd hand. That's interesting in more ways than the professor meant it to be. This becomes critical when applied to salvation. I'm going to guess that 2000 yrs ago a person would never say that someone was his Lord unless he absolutely meant it. 2000 yrs ago a person could be killed for declaring someone, other than the king, as his Lord. Therefore, I'll also guess that anyone who publicly declared that Jesus was his Lord knew very well that he was expected to prove that statement with his actions. Furthermore I think that 2000 yrs ago a person's actions were more suspected to have false motives than his words were. This would be especially true if you were a slave and you had to do many things you didn't agree with just so you weren't beaten. It's very curious how things managed to turn around by 180 degrees, in the last 2000 years. This doesn't change how or why we get saved but it does reinforce the idea that your behavior proves you are saved.
Maybe I am reading into your post, or perhaps others are not getting the jist of your message. But if I am correct, you are simply reiterating what James said.
You show me your faith without your works and I will show you mine BY my works.
In today's spiritual climate, people on cue will start shouting "legalism!" Let me be perfectly clear. We so not earn our salvation by works. Nor do we keep it by doing works. So how do we align James statement with grace? Where are the works to originate?
The answer? The indwelling Holy Spirit who has promised to cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure. God being the potter in our lives.
But this does not satisfy the dilemma. It exacerbates it many-fold. Why? Because it reveals our great lack.
We are supposed to love one another as Christ loved the church. We do not. Many try to defend our indefensible position. We are lacking the promise Our God has clearly made to us to fill us with spiritual fruits, to sanctify wholly, body soul and spirit, so that by the changes God brings about in us, the world can see that our God is THE God. And guys, we are far far from that, as the world simply mocks us for our shallowness and religious hypocrisy.
Yet here is the truth that most cannot admit. We cannot set see it. Bur here is rhe truth.
We are those who draw near to Him with our lips but our hearts are far from Him.
We are those who are healed only slightly, saying 'peace, peace' when we have no peace
We are those possessing a form of godliness, but our lives deny the power of it to a world desperately in need of light from a city set on a hill.
We are playing church, with our hearts totally unburdened from the weight of men's eternal souls bound for an eternity without Christ.
We hear the Word "Laodecia" and our spiritual hackles go full ballistic, never realizing that such a response is exactly what the Laodecians would do.
God has promised to restore what the cankerworm has eaten, but only when we finally have had enough of religion, of head knowledge of doctrines with no heart knowledge of servanthood.
Saints, a revival IS coming. An outpouring unprecedented since the day of pentecost. Tbe sheep and goats have been kept in the same pasture long enough. The valley of decision is fast approaching. Here one decision is to be made. Just one. Will we love our lives, our goals, our dreams, our religious correctness,our ndealt with and secret sins, or will we fall at the feet of our master, saying
"The day is far spent, the night is at hand, and we are not still not saved from evil' power and grip. . Deliver us from US, O Lord. Subdue our iniquities, change us, fill us, free us, even as you promised!
Even so Lord Jesus, restore us to a church without spot or wrinkle.
Blessings, Gideon
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2 hours ago, Not me said:
Romans 6:7 (NASB)
“for he who has died is freed from sin.”
This here, in these few words are the all of being made free from sin...Both large and small, wherever and whenever sin of any type or degree might raise it’s ugly head...
For just like any dead person has come out from under the influences of all the elements of this world, sin, just the same loses all the power over the person that by faith believes into their death in Christ....For of a very real and ever present truth is;
“for he who has died is freed from sin.”
This path or way forward once seen as God’s way to be made free from the power of oneself, is a most blessed walk....Where sin, that by choice are chosen to be done, are seen to be all the sin that is done by the body...For all sin is a choice, whereby one’s death whereby one is freed from the self-will that chooses sin, is the only cure...
Thereby, death; one dying to oneself is seen as the one and only way to be made free from the power of sin that dwells in the body..
Once death is seen as the way to come out from under all the influences of all the desires of sin that dwells in oneself...Death; Christ’s death on the cross, whereby He took us to death with Him becomes the all of our existence...We meet all that comes our way with a;
“what is that to a dead man, when Jesus died, I died, I follow Christ”
The permanency and the unfailingness of our death is according to the realness and the efficiency of Christ really and truly dying on the cross for us... Whereby His death is our death...
Once this truth has the whole of the heart one rejoices before God like never before over the awesomeness and completeness and never failing-ness of the salvation that God has given to all that by faith would grab on to it....
For;
Romans 6:6 (NASB)
“knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin”;
is the doorway into a life of walking before God in a ever present state of dying to oneself...Thereby to the degree one by faith reckons themselves dead to sin and alive unto God will that person be made free from sin to walk in newness of life...
Than each and every day becomes a blessing to itself whereby one can walk before God in the surety of faith before Him; which is, walking in the Spirit ....
For when Christ died we died and such is the foundation of our salvation in Christ...
Be blessed all in the finding and being established in the faith...
A fellow believer, Not me
Praise God. This is truth and truth will set us free in direct proportion to our faith to believe it. Thank you for this post, my friend.
blessings,
Gideon
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19 hours ago, Michael37 said:
Ohhhhh, I coulda had a V8.
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30 minutes ago, Exegesis said:
Sadly, yes, that is what he is saying. People like him would have people stay with a person they married to no matter how bad it is. It wouldn't matter if they were being verbally, sexually, or physically abused. It wouldn't matter if they had been abandoned by the other person. They got married, it turned out to be a mistake, and now God has condemned them to live their life alone, for the rest of what is left. And what he is also teaching, even though he isn't saying it bluntly is this:
That if a person divorces, or remarries, their sin is unforgivable.
In fairness, let me present the "other side" of the coin, lol.
Should it bother us that divorce in the church is almost exactly the same percentage as those in the world? Absolutely! Does it? Hmmmmm, I think not. We simply do not have ears to hear the answer, or, perhaps we have ears and simply don't like God's answer, so we would rather ignore it, claim grace anyway and think nothing of it.
The current state of the church, mirrored by our divorce rate, is shouting to the world that having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the indwelling Holy Spirit is not exactly working out as God planned it. They see us as shallow hypocrites.
How can we say we love God whom we have not seen if we cannot love our brothers whom we have seen. And should marriages between saints be the crowning glory displaying that love?
Do we love others as we love ourselves? Do we even want to? and if the answer is no, do we desire to be changed in our inner man so that God's love flows through us?
The red flags are being raised that something is wrong with our understanding of the gospel. We believe sanctification is time-related, but are we truly progressing to being changed into His image with more and more spiritual fruits abounding in our lives?
Is sin becoming more and more sinful to us? Are we overcoming it more and more? Or have we become content to simply be saved by grace but not delievered from the power of darkness by that same grace?
Are we not fulfilling the very same sin as the laodecians, content to be forgiven but totally lukewarm to seeking God's face for more of Him so that our actions, marriage included, point those in the world to Jesus? Are we not, in essence, saying that because we have grace for forgiveness, for salvation, somehow we now have need of nothing?
I pray we wake up to the lateness of the hour and the Spirit's calling us to come up higher, to hate our self life so He can finally live through us. to hate our worldliness and compromise, and to seek for a deeper indwelling of the Spirit that actually causes us to live, to act, to think differently.
blessings,
Gideon
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5 minutes ago, vic66 said:
not if you don't continuously do it
How convenient! LOL.
In 1Corinthians 7:27, 28 it says, "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not sinned."
Do you not see what Paul is telling the christians at Corinth? The last sentence is clearly referring to the two immediately preceding it.
Look, I certainly stand with you about divorce. God hates divorce. HATES it. But you do not rectify anything by your proposed solution. You cause more irreparable harm, most likely turning multitudes of children against ever seeking God at all.
Just out of curiosity, why this particular sin? Are there things in your life you know are sins and yet continuing to do? If so, why do you expect forgiveness? I pray you remember. In the same measure you mete, it will be measured our to you.
If your motive in these posts is love and concern for those affected by divorce, your empathy should be palpable in how you share your concerns. . Tears should accompany your pleas for those in error to turn from sin.
But the truth is, at least in how I see you sharing, there is a clinical hardness, a black and white legalistic letter-of-the-law spirit that comes through what you post. I am not trying to be harsh to you, but when the cure causes as much or more pain than the original sin, you need to truly get with God and let Him change you so that your motives for your posts are FOR the readers instead of just wanting to be right.
blessings to you, Vic.
Gideon
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1 minute ago, vic66 said:
if you continue to sleep with and live with another woman while your first wife is still alive you are in a continuous state of adultery and rebellion against Christ and his word
You did not answer my question. If you stole from the IRS in 1986 and never made it right, are you not then still a thief? According to you, you are.
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2 minutes ago, vic66 said:
of course what was written afore time was written for our learning
Roman7
The woman at the well, who had multiple previous husbands and the man she was with then was not even her husband..... remember her? Did Jesus demand she go back and undo all six marriages or did He offer her the cure for a heart that had committed those sins?
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1 minute ago, vic66 said:
of course what was written afore time was written for our learning
Roman7
Well, adulterers were stoned. Is that not for our learning as well??
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3 minutes ago, vic66 said:
Ezra 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.
2 And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.
3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.
4 Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it.
5 Then arose Ezra, and made the chief priests, the Levites, and all Israel, to swear that they should do according to this word. And they sware.
6 Then Ezra rose up from before the house of God, and went into the chamber of Johanan the son of Eliashib: and when he came thither, he did eat no bread, nor drink water: for he mourned because of the transgression of them that had been carried away.
7 And they made proclamation throughout Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of the captivity, that they should gather themselves together unto Jerusalem;
8 And that whosoever would not come within three days, according to the counsel of the princes and the elders, all his substance should be forfeited, and himself separated from the congregation of those that had been carried away.
9 Then all the men of Judah and Benjamin gathered themselves together unto Jerusalem within three days. It was the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month; and all the people sat in the street of the house of God, trembling because of this matter, and for the great rain.
10 And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.
11 Now therefore make confession unto the Lord God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.
12 Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do.
13 But the people are many, and it is a time of much rain, and we are not able to stand without, neither is this a work of one day or two: for we are many that have transgressed in this thing.
14 Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.
15 Only Jonathan the son of Asahel and Jahaziah the son of Tikvah were employed about this matter: and Meshullam and Shabbethai the Levite helped them.
16 And the children of the captivity did so. And Ezra the priest, with certain chief of the fathers, after the house of their fathers, and all of them by their names, were separated, and sat down in the first day of the tenth month to examine the matter.
17 And they made an end with all the men that had taken strange wives by the first day of the first month.
18 And among the sons of the priests there were found that had taken strange wives: namely, of the sons of Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren; Maaseiah, and Eliezer, and Jarib, and Gedaliah.
19 And they gave their hands that they would put away their wives; and being guilty, they offered a ram of the flock for their trespass.
20 And of the sons of Immer; Hanani, and Zebadiah.
21 And of the sons of Harim; Maaseiah, and Elijah, and Shemaiah, and Jehiel, and Uzziah.
22 And of the sons of Pashur; Elioenai, Maaseiah, Ishmael, Nethaneel, Jozabad, and Elasah.
23 Also of the Levites; Jozabad, and Shimei, and Kelaiah, (the same is Kelita,) Pethahiah, Judah, and Eliezer.
24 Of the singers also; Eliashib: and of the porters; Shallum, and Telem, and Uri.
25 Moreover of Israel: of the sons of Parosh; Ramiah, and Jeziah, and Malchiah, and Miamin, and Eleazar, and Malchijah, and Benaiah.
26 And of the sons of Elam; Mattaniah, Zechariah, and Jehiel, and Abdi, and Jeremoth, and Eliah.
27 And of the sons of Zattu; Elioenai, Eliashib, Mattaniah, and Jeremoth, and Zabad, and Aziza.
28 Of the sons also of Bebai; Jehohanan, Hananiah, Zabbai, and Athlai.
29 And of the sons of Bani; Meshullam, Malluch, and Adaiah, Jashub, and Sheal, and Ramoth.
30 And of the sons of Pahathmoab; Adna, and Chelal, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattaniah, Bezaleel, and Binnui, and Manasseh.
31 And of the sons of Harim; Eliezer, Ishijah, Malchiah, Shemaiah, Shimeon,
32 Benjamin, Malluch, and Shemariah.
33 Of the sons of Hashum; Mattenai, Mattathah, Zabad, Eliphelet, Jeremai, Manasseh, and Shimei.
34 Of the sons of Bani; Maadai, Amram, and Uel,
35 Benaiah, Bedeiah, Chelluh,
36 Vaniah, Meremoth, Eliashib,
37 Mattaniah, Mattenai, and Jaasau,
38 And Bani, and Binnui, Shimei,
39 And Shelemiah, and Nathan, and Adaiah,
40 Machnadebai, Shashai, Sharai,
41 Azareel, and Shelemiah, Shemariah,
42 Shallum, Amariah, and Joseph.
43 Of the sons of Nebo; Jeiel, Mattithiah, Zabad, Zebina, Jadau, and Joel, Benaiah.
44 All these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children.
Let me ask you Vic. The sins in your life over the years where you have hurt people or perhaps fudged on your taxes a bit, lied, or stolen...... have you gone back and made amends with every single on of them? Have you written to the iRS about your 1986 tax return where you deducted some things you knew were not valid deductions.
You cannot pick and choose which sins you correct and which sins you do not. If you have been unfaithful in little things, how will God give you big things? You have an obvious bone to pick with marriage and divorce. I fully agree it should not happen and frankly, I believe we should be on our knees seeking God for the real answer as to why it is happening.
But repentance washes all that away. True repentance will leave us thinking differently in the future about our past sins. That is what God wants.
blessings,
Gids
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1 minute ago, vic66 said:
Ezra 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.
2 And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.
3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.
4 Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it.
5 Then arose Ezra, and made the chief priests, the Levites, and all Israel, to swear that they should do according to this word. And they sware.
6 Then Ezra rose up from before the house of God, and went into the chamber of Johanan the son of Eliashib: and when he came thither, he did eat no bread, nor drink water: for he mourned because of the transgression of them that had been carried away.
7 And they made proclamation throughout Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of the captivity, that they should gather themselves together unto Jerusalem;
8 And that whosoever would not come within three days, according to the counsel of the princes and the elders, all his substance should be forfeited, and himself separated from the congregation of those that had been carried away.
9 Then all the men of Judah and Benjamin gathered themselves together unto Jerusalem within three days. It was the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month; and all the people sat in the street of the house of God, trembling because of this matter, and for the great rain.
10 And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.
11 Now therefore make confession unto the Lord God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.
12 Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do.
13 But the people are many, and it is a time of much rain, and we are not able to stand without, neither is this a work of one day or two: for we are many that have transgressed in this thing.
14 Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.
15 Only Jonathan the son of Asahel and Jahaziah the son of Tikvah were employed about this matter: and Meshullam and Shabbethai the Levite helped them.
16 And the children of the captivity did so. And Ezra the priest, with certain chief of the fathers, after the house of their fathers, and all of them by their names, were separated, and sat down in the first day of the tenth month to examine the matter.
17 And they made an end with all the men that had taken strange wives by the first day of the first month.
18 And among the sons of the priests there were found that had taken strange wives: namely, of the sons of Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren; Maaseiah, and Eliezer, and Jarib, and Gedaliah.
19 And they gave their hands that they would put away their wives; and being guilty, they offered a ram of the flock for their trespass.
20 And of the sons of Immer; Hanani, and Zebadiah.
21 And of the sons of Harim; Maaseiah, and Elijah, and Shemaiah, and Jehiel, and Uzziah.
22 And of the sons of Pashur; Elioenai, Maaseiah, Ishmael, Nethaneel, Jozabad, and Elasah.
23 Also of the Levites; Jozabad, and Shimei, and Kelaiah, (the same is Kelita,) Pethahiah, Judah, and Eliezer.
24 Of the singers also; Eliashib: and of the porters; Shallum, and Telem, and Uri.
25 Moreover of Israel: of the sons of Parosh; Ramiah, and Jeziah, and Malchiah, and Miamin, and Eleazar, and Malchijah, and Benaiah.
26 And of the sons of Elam; Mattaniah, Zechariah, and Jehiel, and Abdi, and Jeremoth, and Eliah.
27 And of the sons of Zattu; Elioenai, Eliashib, Mattaniah, and Jeremoth, and Zabad, and Aziza.
28 Of the sons also of Bebai; Jehohanan, Hananiah, Zabbai, and Athlai.
29 And of the sons of Bani; Meshullam, Malluch, and Adaiah, Jashub, and Sheal, and Ramoth.
30 And of the sons of Pahathmoab; Adna, and Chelal, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattaniah, Bezaleel, and Binnui, and Manasseh.
31 And of the sons of Harim; Eliezer, Ishijah, Malchiah, Shemaiah, Shimeon,
32 Benjamin, Malluch, and Shemariah.
33 Of the sons of Hashum; Mattenai, Mattathah, Zabad, Eliphelet, Jeremai, Manasseh, and Shimei.
34 Of the sons of Bani; Maadai, Amram, and Uel,
35 Benaiah, Bedeiah, Chelluh,
36 Vaniah, Meremoth, Eliashib,
37 Mattaniah, Mattenai, and Jaasau,
38 And Bani, and Binnui, Shimei,
39 And Shelemiah, and Nathan, and Adaiah,
40 Machnadebai, Shashai, Sharai,
41 Azareel, and Shelemiah, Shemariah,
42 Shallum, Amariah, and Joseph.
43 Of the sons of Nebo; Jeiel, Mattithiah, Zabad, Zebina, Jadau, and Joel, Benaiah.
44 All these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children.
You do realize Ezra is an old testament book, right?
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6 minutes ago, vic66 said:
if you was a murder before coming to Christ should I still love to spill blood was saved ?
if you were a thief before coming to Christ should we continue to steal once saved?
is I was living in fornication before coming to Christ, once saved, should I continue to sleep with my unsaved girlfriend?
If I was married to somebody else wife or husband before I became a Christian should I remain with some elses husband or wife when I become saved ?
Ok, I agree with Beaujangles. You are deep into legalistic territory..... like Pharisee deep.
What is done is done. You cannot undo it. Do you realize how many have married a second time, had children, raised a family. And you seriously are proposing the man ot woman now leave their second mate, tear up an entire family, destroy the security of the children, and this is somehow pleasing to God? Seriously?
Yes, it is sad this has become our norm, but your answer will inflict more pain, not lessen it.
blessings,
Gids
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5 hours ago, Sower said:
Would you care to elaborate on that, Gideon. I would be interested.
In WW2, there was no "political agenda". There was a clear cut evil, and a clear cut resistance to it. Soldiers were not put in a position of killing children because they may have bombs strapped to them. Officers were not "fragged", killed when the men serving under their command did not like them. Drugs had not yet entered the picture. Does that make sense?
blessings,
Gids
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14 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:
Whoa! Wait a minute, bro. I NEVER indicated sin was no big deal. He told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. I've posted that on this thread too. But, did not Christ say that He did not CONDEMN her? He most certainly did. That's the point. Jesus forgives sin. We confess, accept forgiveness, and we are free! Of course He also desires repentance. He said so. Absolutely! So brother, you sinned, confessed, repented, accepted forgiveness, you did accept forgiveness, right? Then you are free of sin! Now, go forth joyously! Amen! And hallelujah for that matter too!
I fully agree.
But surely, you must admit our view of marriage and divorce in the overall climate of today's church does not line up with scripture. Those who have erred can receive forgiveness with confession and turning away from the sin.
But we also have an obligation to speak up concerning the truth so that others do not repeat our mistakes. God wants us holy. Until we take that call with far more seriousness than we have in the past, we will continue to err, and rob ourselves of the. joy of true overcoming and abiding in Him.
blessings,
Gids
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16 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:
Are you forgiven by the shed blood of Christ? Then why are you still beating your head over it? No penalty, bro. Your sins were and are already forgiven you. You walk free! Now go for it joyously!
I have no more guilt. However, if I forget the error I made, convincing myself it is no big deal, do I just wink at sin in the future? Never. We need to learn where we have slipped and change our thinking..... and our future behavior.
blessings to you, Beau
Gideon
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36 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:
I'll gladly tell you why Gideon, dear brother. Topics of nonsense and legalism. Our friend, vic66 has an alternate agenda here. Condemnation. That's right, CONDEMNATION and false doctrine. Do you feel we need more than the devil throws at us on a daily basis? You may, however I do not. This stinks up the place Badly! Do you enjoy this sort of thing yourself? No kinda thought not. I know you too well, you don't go for that anymore than I do. Now, we had one not long ago the opster posted on women wearing trousers, but it was locked down. Wonder why? I'll tell you. Because of condemnation and our ladies were righteously indignant over it. So, the mods not only shut it down, but also deleted it. Do we need more along these lines? This one is already getting irksome to me, personally. And I'd also like an answer to my question. No, I don't think it's asking too much. Not really.
I agree with you about condemnation. Condemnation offers no hope. Conviction however calls for repentance, for changing how we think and act going forward, which does bring hope. I have read a good bit of Vic's offerings, and in my opinion, it does not leave a lot of room for change, just guilt. Rhis is not what God desires.
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Have we strayed as God's people concerning marriage? Absolutely. But as I pointed out in my offering, actions we have taken cannot be undone. They are what they are. All we can do s confess them and learn from our errors. therein lies the hope.However, if we choose to ignore whatcis happening as a whole in the body..... an acceptance of divorce as "just the way it is in today's society", then have we truly repented, or learned from God what He wants so badly to teach us?
I have seen in many churches that marriage itself is looked upon as "old school" and younger Christian adults are choosing to simply live together. And we as the body have rarely lifted up voices of dissent because, after all, 'who are we to judge?'
We have sacrificed truth for convenience, for 'not offending'. Truth, like stone is not washed away in one act of disobedience, but is eroded away over a long period of time. But in the end, he change, the compromise is still sin.
My take on this subject is we have lost connection with God's Spirit, and satan has gladly filled the void with "doing what seems right in our own eyes." I am convinced at some point God is going to restore us to purity of life and doctrine, and when that happens, we are going to see to our shame how far we have slipped. Marriage and divorce is most definitely one of those areas.
My own message is often called condemning and judgmental. How often we mistake efforts to being about conviction with condemnation. We are in the place of saints wanting their ears tickled, but that cannot continue.
God is looking for tears and broken hearts. I pray we give them to the One we love.
blessings,
Gids
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On 7/6/2020 at 6:57 PM, BeauJangles said:
Ohh... Vic. Now - now - now. I had to give you another, "Oy Vey!" on that, bro. Where'd you get an idea like that? From your odd and unconventional church? Some strange place online? A weird YouTube video? Or somewhere else? This doesn't match up anywhere with scriptural evidence at all. You simply pulled that out of thin air. It's a pretty deflated balloon though. Where do you get this tripe? That's just hypercritical and very harsh! Did you get bugs in your oatmeal this morning or something?
BeauJangles reacted to this.
Brother, you have seemed a kind and balanced brother. Why has this gotten under your skin to such a degree that you keep pressing?
The fact of the matter is, to your question of where Vic got his "tripe", he responded with a pretty darned clear scripture. Agreed, it does not fit in with our modern version of truth, but it is certainly scripture and not tripe at all.
To my shame, I myself am guilty, as I was married for25 years before divorcing. I married again and have been married for 18 years, and made my choice with no guilt, no conviction..... and certainly without that verse in the forefront of my heart.
I was wrong, but like Humpty Dumpty, what I did was cannot be undone or put back together. I have simply had to repent, confess it and receive forgiveness. But as to whether or not I see it now as sin, can I in good conscience say the Word is simply out of date, judgmental, harsh.... in error?? Never.
So when verses like this come up that do not tickle our ears but instead rub our fur the wrong way, the solution is not to ignore God's Word or somehow explain it away..... but rather to turn around so our fur is rubbed the right way! LOL.
Just something to ponder on. blessings, Beau
Gideon
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1 hour ago, Josheb said:
I don't see any problem with the "flow" of the previous wording. The suggested wording removes the emphasis from the words "near" and the audience affiliation of "you" found in the passages being discussed. That is why it was worded the way it was. Next time, maybe I'll italicize and underline the salient words and stick in a little winking emoji so readers understand the mirth with which the post was written
.
We are all expressing our personal views to the best of our understanding. To preface everything with "In my opinion..." is unnecessary and borders on redundancy. If it is your opinion that the words "In my opinion..." are preferable then do, by all means and on as many occasions as you think warranted use that preface. Something like this: "In my opinion........ it is better flowing to say, 'In my opinion.....' when directly answering a direct question put directly to you by another poster." I will support you in that practice and applaud the integrity exhibited in practicing what you preach.
Or was I to understand the intent was proactively sidetrack the discussion for a grammar or netiquette lesson?
In my opinion, Gideon, it is best to stick to the topic of discussion, which in the case of the op, and subsequent few examples currently being discussed, it is about the use of specific imagery in scripture as exemplified by texts like the mark of the beast and Jesus coming with great power and glory in the clouds. But thank you for your suggestion; I'll give it some consideration.
Brother, what you are seemingly unable to grasp is how your posts come across to others. It is one thing to be convinced you are correct, but another to make anyone who sees it differently, to be washed over with frequent references to your education, your resume, your intellect, to books you have read, expressed in religious words the apostles themselves would have found completely baffled by.
You have a right to your opinion, Josh, but frankly, you come across as frustratingly having to deal with others who are not on "your"level of intellect.
In my opinion, the truths of scripture are not discerned through much learning but from heart hunger. I know others have brought this up to you, but you do not seem able to understand that presentation is important if you are to lead people to see the truth as you see it.
What good is it to be "right" if no one listens because you come across as a know-it-all.... even if you by chance do know it all! LOL
I do not agree with your take on this subject, and that is ok. But how we interact is a far truer expression of where we are with God, than all the understanding we have of scripture with our heads.
I love you brother.
Gids
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1 hour ago, Josheb said:
The mark of the beast happened at a time near when the book of Revelation was written (prior to 70 AD) and the coming in clouds happened during the lifetimes of the eleven.
In my opinion.......the mark of the beast happened at a time near when the book of Revelation was written (prior to 70 AD) and the coming in clouds happened during the lifetimes of the eleven.
See how much better that flows? ?
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1 hour ago, iamlamad said:
I let scripture define scripture when it does. Usually God says something more than once so we have some event described in more than one way. Occasionally, God says something only once or only in one place in scripture. We must understand it by that one passage in that case.
Example: John saw a great dragon in the heavens, along with a good description of Virgo. This may be the only place in scripture that the virgin is linked with Virgo and the constellation of Draco the Dragon, as if ready to devour Virgo's child.
There is not much help anywhere else in the bible. These verses, the first 5 verses of chapter 12 are written in a midpoint chapter of the future 70th week. Do they have anything to do with the midpoint of the week? No, absolutely nothing. But the chapter - chapter 12, is about the Dragon, the devil, mentioned 32 times in the chapter. It seems while Jesus was showing John what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the future 70th week, He CHOSE to show John was the Dragon did when He, Jesus, was a very young child. The Dragon tried to murder Jesus using King Herod. I take those first five verses as a parenthesis.
No one has authoritative power over scripture: we either understand it correctly as per the intent of the Author, or we don't. I find many on these threads have a great imagination when it comes to scripture.
And who is the final judge of what the intent of the author was? What you do not see is that your take on things in scripture is simply your take. You may quote other esteemed men of God but you are simply mirroring their take.
Ultimately, each one of us is going to give account for how we lived in light of the understanding we ourselves had. Do you understand you can be wrong about the return of Christ? Perhaps you are right, perhaps not, but it would be far wiser to say "In my opinion...." than to act as if any who see things differently than you are somehow totally misled. Just some rhing to think about.
blessings,
Gids
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Peter tells us that we are given exceeding great and precious promises and i5 is by these promises, and our believing them, that we are changed into His image.
The entire old testament points to one very clear goal. God wants us to believe Him. Not just believe IN Him
Believe Him.
Without faith, it is not just hard, it is impossible to please Him. We nod our heads, because after all, we believe Him right? Yes, praise God, we do! But what we have lost sight of is that we are to see that faith grow, fighting our good fight of faith. We are to overcome the world, the flesh and the devil by faith. How do we abide in Him? By faith! To what end? That we might be established in the faith unshakeable.
So has our faith in Him, in what He promised us, grown? Yes, we have escaped Egypt, but there is more! And we cannot move forward until we step out of our boats of unbelief and trust what He has promised us. And what has He promised us? Let's start with this one, for it is critical to our walk as overcomers.
He has promised to not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist, even assuring us that He will make a way of escape every time so that when we resist, the devil will flee from us..... guaranteed. Wow!
Some say "Yes, but we are only human.". I suspect God knew thst when He gave us that amazing promise, don't you? ?
Are we building ourselves up in our most holy faith, grabbing hold of such a promise that we so desperately need in order to walk as obedient children, or are we content to simply be forgiven, refusing through our unbelief to grow up into Him in all things.
Unbelief is the ultimate insult to God, for it declares our mind, our logic, our intelligence is more trustworthy than God Himself. In essence, it calls God a liar.
In these last days, we see the shakings beginning to occur. Thank God, one of the things that will be shaken out of us as His children in unbelief. The promises of God are soon to be viewed, not as optional, but as an absolute necessity.
blessings,
Gideon
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This is just an observation. According to stats I have heard, the divorce rate among Christians is about exactly the same as those in the world.
Should this not set a red flag off in our hearts? Has not the love of God been shed abroad in our hearts? And yet, we cannot make our marriages work, just as those in the world cannot?
We are told that to whom much is given, much is required. We are to walk to a higher standard, are we not?
It is one thing to point out what we should be doing, when we are not. But if that is the extent of it, and we do not ask ourselves the obvious question begging to be asked, we deceive ourselves.
What is that question?
Why is this happening? What are we lacking that makes us live like those in the world?
It is a question that demands an answer. We can be made to feel guilty about the truth about where we find ourselves. We can vow to try to do better. We can even choose to stick it out with a wife or husband we no longer may be in love with. This may indeed be making a fair show in the flesh.... outer appearances.... but this does not get to the root of the problem.
And the next question that needs to be asked is:
How? How can we be changed to love as He desires us to love?
There is an answer. There is a way to be restored to a condition of "without spot or wrinkle", but it first requires we acknowledge that we need to be.
blessings,
Gideon
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All Her Persecutors Overtook Her Between The Straits
in General Discussion
Posted
Hi Walter,, I love the verses you share. Can you comment on these particular passages how you interpret them and whether or not they are something we may ponder upon and even relate to in our present day?
Thanks,
Gideon,