Edwin

OneLight. You say, "I do, however, disagree that Adam saved Eve." Adam did not save Eve directly, but he started off the process which enabled Jesus to be born into the human race, to have a psychical body in order to experience the excruciating agony of crucifixion which was available to save her. Heb 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Heb 10:5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;

Read Hebrews Chapters 10 & 11.

Further to my previous post on this subject of the 17 July. In the main I refer to four versions, namely ESV. NASB. NKJ. But best of all in my opinion is the, Holman Christian Standard Bible. An on line version of which can be found at, https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Holman-Christian-Standard-Bible-HCSB/ Every blessing. Edwin.

What then is your understanding of Adam being a type of Christ?

OneLight. You ask, "are you saying that Adam was sinless?" Adam was sinless when he decided to take the necessary action to save Eve, and this resulted in him becoming a sinner. Edwin.

Let me now sum up this topic, and at the same time add some material, which I trust will be of help. I have extracted it from my subject, "The fall of man, an alternative view." At Rom 5:14, we are told that, Adam, was a type of the one who was to come. We are also told at, 1Ti 2:14, that, Adam wasn't deceived, he knows just what he is doing. And then at, 1Ti 2:15 but she will be saved through her child-bearing. Now how much childbearing had she done?, Non, can she fertilize herself? No. Only her husband can do that for her, but he is sinless, and perfect, and can have no contact with that which is sinful Apart from Adam and Eve, the Human race has not yet been started, and if it isn't started then the kinsman redeemer cannot be born into it. The only way in which mankind can be started, is if he becomes like her, a sinner, remember, he is not deceived, he knows just what he is doing. Does he go to the tree as she had done. No he does not. He goes to her, and takes the fruit from her hand and partakes thereof. Symbolic of Jesus coming to us, and taking our sin to Himself. May the Lord bless you, and keep you safe. Edwin.

Thank you gigman7 for your question, I do hope the following will be of help. Leading Guidance, and direction. I hope that what follows will be of help to you in understanding just where I am coming from on this subject. Someone once said to me, "We all believe in the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts, but to what extent, and exactly how does He manifest Himself ? That seems to be the sticking point, and that's why I believe He works in different ways in different people." My reply was. To answer this, I will have go back to my conversion, an extract from which is given bellow. "The Lord spoke to me in His still small voice, and said, "Why am I doing this, why am I as it were taking time off from running this vast universe to come down into this room to be with you to cause you to open my book just where I want you to open it, to read the very verse that I want you to read that tells you that I know just what your problem is, if as you say your sin is too great for me to forgive?. " Now just what do I mean by, "The Lord spoke to me", well I did not hear anything, nor did I see anything.. It is hard to describe, but I will try, It was as if I had an awareness inserted into my thinking processes. Thinking, I would describe as a person carrying on a conversation with himself silently inside his own head. What was done to me might be referred to by the unconverted as "mental telepathy", It was not speech, but information given, which can only be communicated to others by the use of speech. Does the Bible tell us all that we need to know ?, well yes of course it does, and what's more it tells us of the Holy Spirits activity from within us, as the following verses indicate. Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Tell me, how does He do this?, I have no doubt that you are a son of God, and in that case, have a look at Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. If you are a son of God, then you are led by the Spirit, who will confirm the truth for you, for example, Jhn 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. Jhn 7:17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. But note: This will only happen if you really do want God?s will to be done. The Scriptures verses quoted above are for all believers at all times in history, and not just for the ones to whom Jesus was speaking at the time, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. How will you know ? Could it I wonder be, ?your heart burning within you?? Luk 24:32 They said to each other, "Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?" Well that is exactly how I felt in my heart, when the Lord spoke to me at my conversion. Before I close here is a practical example. Suppose I am in a crowd, and I want to give someone the "Gospel message". Who am I going to speak to?, and what am I going to say? Well if I open my Bible, I read, Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; Pro 3:6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct* your paths. And don't forget I know also from the Word, that as I am a son, I can expect the indwelling Holy Spirit to lead me, to the one to whom He wishes to speak. I must however, adopt towards God, the same attitude that Jesus did, and as He explained at John 5:30, and also at John 14:10, Jhn 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Then the words that I speak will not be my words, but the words of My Father who dwells inside me, He it is who will be doing the work, and not me trying to do my fleshly best for Him, but He will only work through me if I allow Him to do so, and this is achieved only as a result of, "Not my will but thine be done". Now, do you see how it's done.. Isn't it great being a Christian. Bless you brother. Edwin.

Thank you shiloh357 for your question. You will recall I said "Now here is a clue. What did Jesus do to save His bride" Answer. 2Cr 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. "He who knew no sin permitted Himself to be made sin", in order to save His bride, you and I. Adam who knew no sin permitted Himself to be made sin", in order to save His bride, Eve. Remember, we are told than Adam was not deceived, he knew exactly what he was doing. Bless you. Edwin.

Thank you both for your comments. My thinking is influenced somewhat by, 1Ti 2:14 Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman, being deceived, has fallen into disobedience; 1Ti 2:15 but she will be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith, love, and sanctification with sobriety. Hebrew names version Now here is a clue. What did Jesus do to save His bride Every blessing.. Edwin.

NASB is certainly very good, but I prefer the English Standard Version. Bless you. Edwin.

In what way is Adams transgression typical of what Jesus would do? Rom 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. Thank you. Edwin.

Thank you Willamina, and FresnoJoe for your comments which are much appreciated. Every blessing. Edwin. PS: Now what are your thoughts on, "Adams transgression" above. Thank you. Edwin.

Thank you Persuaded for your comments. My conclusion is as follows. Jesus gives us another clue at, Jhn 5:19 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. He later on gives His solution to the above, and the problem He revealed at John 5:30, as below. Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Now why does Jesus do things this way, because it is the only way in which we born again Christians can live the life that God the Father intended us to live. And that is why it is written, Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, It is only the Holy Spirit who abides within you that can live the life that God the Father requires. May the Lord bless you, and keep you safe. Edwin.

Thank you both for your comments, which are much appreciated. However, my understanding was influenced somewhat by what Jesus had to say at, Jhn 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. I shall be interested to find out if you also arrive at my conclusion? Edwin.

What is your understanding of "my yoke" in the following verses ? Mat 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Thank you. Edwin.

Just because Peter failed in one instance, doesn't mean he wasn't converted. Do you think all converted people don't make mistakes? Or are sometimes afraid to speak up to say they belong to Jesus? Hashe. How many converted people do you know who have denied knowing Jesus?

Thank you kwikphilly for your post. In which you say, "If I may ,,,,,it is not that Peter was unconverted but in fact he was not yet fully committed as is shown us in John 2:24,& until that time Jesus did not give His Spirit to the apostles.................they were not yet indwelled with the Holy Spirit because Jesus had not yet died" Amen: I fact none of the disciples were, as is indicated in the following verses, Jhn 20:19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, [fn] Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." Jhn 20:20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jhn 20:21 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you." Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. ESV Footnote: (20:19) Greek Ioudaioi probably refers here to Jewish religious leaders, and others under their influence, in that time Act 1:3 He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God. Act 1:4 And while staying [fn] with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me; Act 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with [fn] the Holy Spirit not many days from now." ESV Footnote: (1:4) Or eating May the Lord bless you, and keep you safe. Edwin.

Hashe, you say, "IT is wrong to say that Peter was 'unconverted' when Jesus spoke to him" Then how do you account for what Peter said some 10 chapters later on? Mat 26:74 Then he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, "I do not know the man." And immediately the rooster crowed. Mat 26:75 And Peter remembered the saying of Jesus, "Before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times." And he went out and wept bitterly.

Atwood. In your post of 22 April 2014 - 09:15 PM, you comment, "I must say that it is beyond me how one would think that Peter was unconverted in Mat 16." Then how do you account for what Peter said some 10 chapters later on? Mat 26:74 Then he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, "I do not know the man." And immediately the rooster crowed. Mat 26:75 And Peter remembered the saying of Jesus, "Before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times." And he went out and wept bitterly.

Tell me Hashe. How much love is Jesus showing to Peter when he said to him, "Get behind me, Satan! Mat 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance [fn] to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man." Would you say that to anyone?

No cart for Koath. Exd 25:10 "And they shall make an ark of acacia wood; two and a half cubits shall be its length, a cubit and a half its width, and a cubit and a half its height. Exd 25:11 "And you shall overlay it with pure gold, inside and out you shall overlay it, and shall make on it a molding of gold all around. Exd 25:12 "You shall cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in its four corners; two rings shall be on one side, and two rings on the other side. Exd 25:13 "And you shall make poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold. Exd 25:14 "You shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, that the ark may be carried by them. Exd 25:15 "The poles shall be in the rings of the ark; they shall not be taken from it. Exd 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you. Exd 25:17 "You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. Exd 25:18 "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. Exd 25:19 "Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. Exd 25:20 "And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. Exd 25:21 "You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. Exd 25:22 "And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel. Note: Verse 15, ""The poles shall be in the rings of the ark; they shall not be taken from it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lev 16:14 And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle [it] with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times. Lev 16:15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that [is] for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Num 7:1 NOW it came to pass, when Moses had finished setting up the tabernacle, that he anointed it and consecrated it and all its furnishings, and the altar and all its utensils; so he anointed them and consecrated them. Num 7:2 Then the leaders of Israel, the heads of their fathers' houses, who were the leaders of the tribes and over those who were numbered, made an offering. Num 7:3 And they brought their offering before the LORD, six covered carts and twelve oxen, a cart for every two of the leaders, and for each one an ox; and they presented them before the tabernacle. Num 7:4 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, Num 7:5 "Accept these from them, that they may be used in doing the work of the tabernacle of meeting; and you shall give them to the Levites, to every man according to his service." Num 7:6 So Moses took the carts and the oxen, and gave them to the Levites. Num 7:7 Two carts and four oxen he gave to the sons of Gershon, according to their service; Num 7:8 and four carts and eight oxen he gave to the sons of Merari, according to their service, under the authority[fn1] of Ithamar the son of Aaron the priest. Num 7:9 But to the sons of Kohath he gave none, because theirs was the service of the holy things, which they carried on their shoulders. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Num 4:15 "And when Aaron and his sons have finished covering the sanctuary and all the furnishings of the sanctuary, when the camp is set to go, then the sons of Kohath shall come to carry them; but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Num 4:1 THEN the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: Num 4:2 "Take a census of the sons of Kohath from among the children of Levi, by their families, by their fathers' house, Num 4:3 "from thirty years old and above, even to fifty years old, all who enter the service to do the work in the tabernacle of meeting. Num 4:15 "And when Aaron and his sons have finished covering the sanctuary and all the furnishings of the sanctuary, when the camp is set to go, then the sons of Kohath shall come to carry them; but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These are the things in the tabernacle of meeting which the sons of Kohath are to carry. Now why do you suppose that everything had to be done just as outlined in the above verses? Well have a look at the NT, verses below Luk 3:23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, Jhn 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" You will have noted that it was not the sons of either Gershon, or Merari, that were to carry the arc, but only the sons of Kohath, in other words, only "one of the three". Can you think of anyone else in Scripture who was, "one of three", who was, "more than thirty", and, "less than fifty", and who carried two pieces of wood on His shoulders which must never be detached from the mercy seat sprinkled with blood, where you go to have your sins forgiven. Bless you. Edwin.

Chapter 24 of Genesis Here is another example of, What is in the old concealed is in the new revealed. Read all of Chapter 24 of Genesis, and you will see that Abraham is a type of God the Father, Isaac a type of Jesus the Son of God, the servant a type of the Holy Spirit, and Rebekah a type of the Church, the Bride of Christ. The servant would in all probability have been Eliezer of Damascus, who was an equal partner with Abraham as can be seen at, Gen 15:2 But Abram said, "Lord GOD, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?" The name Eliezer means "God is My Helper" Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. When Rebekah was asked "Will you go with this man?" And she said, "I will go." Gen 24:57 So they said, "We will call the young woman and ask her personally." Gen 24:58 Then they called Rebekah and said to her, "Will you go with this man?" And she said, "I will go." Confirming what is said at, 1Pe 1:8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see [Him], yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, Wow mind blowing, need I say any more ? Praise Him from whom all blessings flow. Edwin.

Subject: Jephthah's daughter. Sorry for duplication, my mistake. Every blessing. Edwin.

Subject: Jephthah's daughter. Jdg 11:30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD, and said, "If You will indeed deliver the people of Ammon into my hands, Jdg 11:31 "then it will be that whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the people of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up as a burnt offering." Jdg 11:32 So Jephthah advanced toward the people of Ammon to fight against them, and the LORD delivered them into his hands. Jdg 11:33 And he defeated them from Aroer as far as Minnith--twenty cities--and to Abel Keramim,[fn1] with a very great slaughter. Thus the people of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel. Jdg 11:34 When Jephthah came to his house at Mizpah, there was his daughter, coming out to meet him with timbrels and dancing; and she was his only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter. Jdg 11:35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he tore his clothes, and said, "Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low! You are among those who trouble me! For I have given my word to the LORD, and I cannot go back on it." Jdg 11:36 So she said to him, "My father, if you have given your word to the LORD, do to me according to what has gone out of your mouth, because the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the people of Ammon." Jdg 11:37 Then she said to her father, "Let this thing be done for me: let me alone for two months, that I may go and wander on the mountains and bewail my virginity, my friends and I." Jdg 11:38 So he said, "Go." And he sent her away for two months; and she went with her friends, and bewailed her virginity on the mountains. Jdg 11:39 And it was so at the end of two months that she returned to her father, and he carried out his vow with her which he had vowed. She knew no man. And it became a custom in Israel Jdg 11:40 that the daughters of Israel went four days each year to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite. Here we have, "female", type of Christ. Firstly she is a firstborn, secondly she is a virgin, (a sign of purity, and holy ness), thirdly the expression, "two months", appears, "three times", and three draws our attention to the, "Trinity", and, "two", speaks of the second person of the Trinity. This young girl who's name is not revealed in the above passage is prepared to lay down her life in order to save her father from the consequences of breaking his vow to the LORD. Every blessing. Edwin.

Shalom Edwin, Please read your PM before posting this again. OneLight