Sister

I already explained it to you.

There's no lie in the scriptures, just our understanding sometimes in not understanding beneath the layer of what is really been said.

So man doesn't die? He just keeps living and living forever?

I know the sky or under the firmament (the dome) is sometimes called heaven, or the heavens, but above that is the 3rd heaven, and then it goes up in levels to where God's throne is.

Amen.

Hello Retrobyter Yes I agree with you.

What the Law couldn't do was give life and wipe away all sins. Jesus came to fulfill the law and his blood was a testament to that. He was sent to end the law, and give a better one. The law couldn't be kept and it was being broken every day. The law is black and white whereas you broke one law, your guilty of breaking them all. The law was only 'the schoolmaster' until Christ came. It was the warming up, getting ready for him. It was all about OBEYING God, whatever he commanded and getting used to that even if you didn't know why he commanded certain things. The new covenant is according to the spirit and not the letter. It's about choosing to serve God out of choice and not because of fear or force. The new covenant involves grace, and a chance to have all sins wiped clean. The new law offers a new clean slate, through an invitation into the kingdom of God by obeying the one God put in charge, the Son of Man who is the Son of God. The new covenant involves a love for the truth foremost, and a willingness to trust Jesus to lead us there. No-one has been to heaven yet. The 1st resurrection has not yet come. It was not about mercy. It didn't even give Jesus name. He didn't preach to anyone when he was in the belly of the whale (heart of the earth). He was dead. Yes really dead like the scriptures attest. What questions? please quote.

No, it's not a simple question when you don't give the scripture first. I don't know what your thinking, and now you have given me this scripture in John 11, I am still trying to guess what you are asking? So I have to break down those verses and take it from there to see what you are getting at. Lazarus was dead. When Martha saw Jesus she was totally unaware that he would raise Lazarus again from the dead, so she said something to him that he must of taught her previously....and that was she knew Lazarus would be raised on the last day, in the resurrection. That knowledge was comforting her. Jesus says; John 11:25 ..........., I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: So Jesus is inferring that it doesn't matter Lazarus is dead, for anyone who believes in him will live again,....anyway. Then he went on to say; John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in ME SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this? In otherwords, who-ever believes in Jesus will never be put to death forever. He will live again. By Jesus raising Lazarus up from the dead, was just to show the glory of the Father, that bringing someone back to life is an easy thing for him. It's a glimpse of what's to come. But unfortunately, we are all in the flesh, and are destined to die (except for those alive at the 2nd Coming) When our heart stops beating, death will not prevent us from living again. When we die, we are really dead. We know nothing, but will live again. So when we are 'in Christ' death is not eternal. The death of the flesh is not the end for us, but a new beginning when we wake up, and everything has to be done in order at the appointed time. So hopefully that answered your question.

Can you please give scripture. I'm not following what you are saying here.

Yes, when we die it's determined already where we will go - but with what lot? Will our souls be placed in paradise where death is not forever, or will our souls go into another room awaiting the 2nd judgment where we are judged by the books? In that 2nd judgement there is still mercy, and the Lord knows beforehand where we will end up, but it's going to be a fair trial where one has to answer for all the things he has done and every one must face the judge. Only after this can one be thrown into the lake of fire because there's a court process first. Judged guilty before witnesses, or given mercy. It's not all done and dusted as soon as we die, but where our souls are placed, ....in what room is the first process.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. This is all we were given, 2 verses. Who were they exactly? Who were the many they appeared to? How long did they appear? What is this holy city they went to? Were they raised to spirit or flesh? If they were raised to spirit then what about this scripture?; 2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. And what does it say just before this? 2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. So we have to divide the word of truth first. Consider what we already know. The resurrection has not come yet, but will happen when Christ returns. All should know this. So these dead saints came out of the graves, after the resurrection. No doubt about that. If you have been following the conversation of what I have put forth to transmogrified is that the dead remnants of Israel will be raised into flesh, not spirit, you may consider this. The 1st resurrection of the saints only involves those who have served in the kingdom of our dear Lord, Jesus Christ. Not only did the OT saints not know the name of the Son of Man, neither did the prophets who were shown so much. They knew of someone coming, but they didn't know who he was. They only 'heard' about him, and the prophets saw one like the Son of Man in visions, and they never lived in a time where they could call out 'his name' or even confess 'his name' because his name was not revealed to them and for a good reason. So the prophets only saw in part. So what happened here with these saints coming out of the graves - after the resurrection is a very unusual event, and a bit of a mystery. Were they raised like Lazarus where they could die again? When Jesus said my Fathers house has many mansions were they taken to one of these to be preserved? Is there a place there in the kingdom where they have been put aside for a future purpose. Are they the 24 elders only or were they all the remnant's of Israel who will be brought back in their flesh bodies to be taught of the Lord after the resurrection? So many questions. So the only way we can even scrape the surface is to know the whole plan of God and what is coming. Then we can put it together and get a little glimpse of what's happening by rightly dividing the word of truth. That always has to be carried out first and start with what we know, and what things are sure, then we can deduct things that are contrary to scripture. That's how I would do it.

Not sure what you are referring to here?

Hi Gary I hope to get back to some of your other questions tomorrow. Please remind me and give me a nudge if I forget to address anything important you have put forth as we continue, because often old things get lost as we move on to answering and bringing forth new information. God bless.

Ok, can you think of any other time that this is not the case? I would have to say YES. That's what the scriptures say, at the 7th trump. So the 7th trump is the finale of this age, and also the start of the new age right? All in the same day? It's a time of judgment first... on Babylon (Rev 18), then the reward to the saints 'in Christ' with the resurrection, and then another reward to the prophets who only prophesied of Christ, but didn't even know his name? And lets not forget many of those prophets desired to see the things we saw, and hear the things we heard? So they didn't quite get to see, or hear what we know. Do you think this is something worth considering? Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. What's his name? Ask those OT saints? and ask the prophets? Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Ok! Yes I know they were his servants, that is true. Ok, so first we know from 2thess 4, that the dead 'in Christ' will be raised first, then those who are alive will be picked up and 'together' they will meet the Lord in the air right? In this order. But the prophets are receiving their reward too? And what is a prophets reward? Is it the same reward as those 'in Christ'? Are you sure? Did the prophets of the OT go through Christ? Really think about this please. Look I know that the prophets are servants of the Lord; 2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The prophets were chosen for this reason, and their words are more understood by us today, because we can see what's been fulfilled already and what hasn't. but just before this verse we have this; 2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. What did Peter mean when he said 'We have also a more sure word of prophecy?' Does he mean it's more plain and easy to understand through the Gospels, and that we know his name now - Jesus, whereas they didn't even have that name before? Just wondering how you see this?

To be in Christ is a fundamental basic. I thought everyone could understand what 'to be in Christ' means? The OT saints were not in Christ and I am repeating myself over and over! All were under sin. It's so clear and dying in sin does not get one a place in the resurrection. All the world was guilty before God. How many different ways can this be said? Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; That to me is so easy to understand. I don't need to give a commentary for it is pretty self explanatory. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Salvation can only come through the gospel of Christ. It has to be heard first.

Yes, it does say 'SOME' of the branches were broken off, and we know that started from the generation who saw Christ and rejected him until now. Yes, but we have to look at the whole picture and understand it. Christ is the vine. He is 'The Word of God' who spoke to Israel in the past. But the 'Word of God' was not yet... back then.... transformed into 'the Son of Man' who released Israel from the law to wash them in his blood through the new teachings/new covenant. That old law doesn't produce the kind of fruit that is required for the resurrection, the fruits of the spirit. God did not cast off 'some' of those natural branches from the OT, until the 'the Son of Man' came. The ones who rejected him were broken off, and the Vine, the Word of God, now the 'Son of Man' would stop feeding them. The old branches that 'remain' on the tree cannot produce fruit because those people are dead. Only those branches that were grafted in can produce fruit because of Christ's teachings. Christ's teachings is what gives life, and only Christ can give the holy spirit. Without the holy spirit we cannot produce fruit. The holy spirit was not given to the old branches. So we have old branches not producing fruit, and grafted in branches producing fruit. The old branches not broken off are going to be producing fruit during the thousand years. They are still on the tree, and God has not cast them away. He is giving them another opportunity to produce the kind of fruit that is required in another time that he has so wonderfully planned and put aside for this very purpose. It's not so cut and dry, because we have to look at the bigger picture. Because the natural branches are not producing fruit now, they cannot be the 'firstfruits' of the resurrection. Only 'after' the gathering at the resurrection of the saints can the natural branches start producing fruit, and that fruit is going to be plentiful because Christ will be there guiding them and giving them the holy spirit which is needed to produce that fruit. And God is true to his Word.

So the point with the above scriptures is that these are specifically stated to be resurrected and rewarded at the 7th Trumpet and not at a different time after the 7th trumpet sounds. No matter how many times I read the above scriptures, I cannot see that these scriptures are 'specifically' stating that they will be in the 1st resurrection. I am not saying that they won't be, but that these scriptures don't state that and can't be used as proof. The prophets were used as God's mouthpiece. God filled them with his holy spirit so that they could give a message. The prophets were good men, yes, devoted and loved God, but they didn't always fully understand what they were speaking. Daniel is a good example of this, troubled in his spirit for not understanding, and when the explanation came, it was still vague. John who penned the book of Revelation even found it hard to describe fighter planes etc. These things hadn't even been invented yet, and they were behind the times. Now compare that to where we are in this day and age. We can see much more clearer now because of technology. We are living in it. We have all the prophecy's at our fingertips and can see much clearer how everything has taken shape. So there is a last generation whom the Lamb has fed which has been given more clarity.

Ok. We are actually given the definition of who 'THE DEAD' is much earlier before the book of Revelation. It's not complicated, it's simple and we can find it here; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This is a special group of people here, not just anyone and everyone. So to recap; Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. So because of 2Thess 4:17, the scriptures are opened up. The dead in Christ are raised first, so these are the first ones judged .... amongst this group only. Those who know of Christ and serve him according to his gospel in the NT. And if we had to back this up with further proof, we have hundreds of scripture to clarify, and here's just a few; John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Who is given eternal life? Those which testify of Jesus. The OT saints cannot do this. Never knew him. Not even all the prophets knew everything about him. Luke 10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. So how can many of these prophets testify of Jesus? Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. So the Law was not by faith, or by the spirit, because it was of the letter, and was carnal according to 'works'. You broke one law, you broke them all. And not only that, you were stoned or severely punished by man or by God for breaking the law. The law was served out of fear and they had no choice, they had to obey. Jesus came to fulfill the law by ending that one and bringing in a better way. They didn't get to experience that. Jesus came to free them from the curse of the law, and their last generations wanted to stay under the law, so they were not made free. Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. The 1st resurrection are all those who have suffered with Christ and who will be glorified with him, and will become joint-heirs with Christ. Christ, and his followers. Not joint-heirs with anyone and every one. Because everything must be fulfilled in it's order. God is very patient and not rushing things through - he's got forever. So the 'time of the dead that they should be judged', are the 'Dead in Christ'. All these dead in Christ will be 'judged' whether or not they will enter that resurrection. They will be sifted as in who will come forth, and who will stay in the ground. 1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Ok thanks. Note taken.

Hi Gary We are going back to the drawing board now. I've answered many of your questions, now I would like you to answer some of mine. Do you believe there are two resurrections coming? Y/N Please provide a list of scriptures proving who exactly will be in the 1st resurrection. These scriptures need to be specific.

Gary Only the holy spirit can make one understand something or reveal it through the written Word. I see it in Ezekiel 37. I can not help it that you cannot see it, nor anyone else. I cannot do anything but guide you there to take a look and get stirred up to see if it sheds any more light to you. This is where when I reply, I start to sound like a scratchy record. I will only be repeating the same thing over and over. Ezekiel 37 is not 'the resurrection'. It's not the first nor the 2nd resurrection, but something different in-between. Well firstly, every one has built their truth according to the foundation they've received,.... and that's what they match the truth against....their foundation. I will match it against mine, the one I received. You are trying to reconcile what I am presenting with your foundation, ...your precepts. We seem to have agreement on many things, but when we go deeper I see our foundations are not the same, giving different results, making this hard to resolve. It's like knocking heads where one has to speak louder than the other, so please before you judge me guilty of presenting a faulty argument, please refrain from bombarding me with these lengthy posts where I spend all my energy on answering and defending numerous statements instead of getting a chance to ask you some questions. All I ask is for your patience. I am going to stop there with answering your questions for now. Because we need to go back to the drawing board.

1) Already explained 2) Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 3) Ezekiel 37.

I have already clarified it's not part of the '1st resurrection'. Not the same thing. There are only 2 resurrections. The 1st at the Coming, and the 2nd resurrection which happens at the same time of the 2nd judgment after the 1000 years. See my answer above. Ezekiel 37. I already presented this.

No, I specifically mentioned earlier on when we were first speaking that what I presented in Ezekiel 37 was not classed as 'a resurrection', as in 'the resurrection of the saints'. It's different and more like Lazarus being raised from the dead, where they will die again. It's more extreme however because these OT saints have been dead for thousands of years, and only their bones remain. The Lord is going to put their bones back together, put skin back on them, and breathe the spirit of life back into them. They will be raised 'flesh', and flesh is corruptible because flesh dies. So these bodies are not raised 'incorruptible'. I need you to understand this? And I thought you already did because you gave me the example of Lazarus in our earlier talks that you understood this. So Ezekiel 37 is not classed as 'the first resurrection', or another 'resurrection', but something completely unique and separate. It's a little surprise coming and is not taught or known in mainstream Christianity. I hope to delve into this more as we progress.