Last Daze
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Posts posted by Last Daze
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Could you (or Salty) please define a "beast kingdom"? Is it a kingdom that's come into power through the influence of a demon (demons)? If not, can you explain how a kingdom comes up out of the abyss as the beast from the sea does? Where does the false prophet fit into this kingdom?
I really don't understand how you guys can get off track so easily from what those Revelation Scriptures are pointing directly to, especially since I know you all are at least somewhat familiar with the Book of Daniel.
The Rev.13:2 verse goes with the description of the 1st beast in Rev.13:1, showing that it is a kingdom, a possession of the dragon. At Rev.13:11 forward we are shown a 2nd beast ("another beast") and he causes the 'deadly wound' that is upon the 1st beast to be healed, clearly marking a distinction between him and that 1st beast as a kingdom.
In Rev.17 our Lord Jesus explained what the "sea" of Rev.13:1 is, it's the "waters" symbol He used to represent peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.
But with the 2nd beast coming up out of the earth, He also explained that in Rev.17 about the beast king that ascends from the bottomless pit and goes into perdition, pointing directly to the dragon.
I missed your definition of a "beast kingdom". In general terms, without referring to any specific scripture, will you describe your understanding of what a beast kingdom is?
a possession of the dragon? - Rev 13:2 "...And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority." That's a whole lot different from "took possession of". Giving is the transfer of <whatever is given> from <the giver> to <the receiver>.
Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 are two completely different contexts referring to the "sea" and the "water". Not the same.
The "beast king" that comes up out of the abyss is Satan? When did (will) he get thrown in there?
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An animal is just used as a symbol for a country. Its as simple as that. There is no implication of demonic influence although all empires outside of Israel had less of a Godly intervention, and so would have been under the influence of ungodly religions. Because the bible focusses on the Middle East, these "animal" countries are normally huge empires that controlled the entire region for hundreds of years. The precedent for this is set in Daniel 7. The word "beast" has evil connotations in the English language, but in Greek it just meant something like a wild bull, or aurochs.
I believe the abyss is just symbolism for coming out of a dark/barren place. The beast disappeared for a while (Rev 17: the beast was and is not), and in this way the kingdom comes back from a dark and barren place (comes out of the abyss). Yes it could also be seen as coming from a dark and evil place because the country is set up for evil purposes.
Who do you think the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece refer to in Daniel 10:13,20?
You don't think the abyss is a literal place?
30 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion”; for many demons had entered him. 31 They were imploring Him not to command them to go away into the abyss. Luke 8:30-31
Where exactly did the demons not want to go?
How do you see the false prophet fitting into this kingdom?
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Was wondering if you could clarify that a little bit please. Is the "mouth" the false prophet? Is the beast from the sea a human? Could you elaborate?
When human characteristics are given to a beast kingdom, the bible is then referring to the leader of that kingdom. The beast of Rev 13 is a kingdom, but later also the antichrist.
Could you (or Salty) please define a "beast kingdom"? Is it a kingdom that's come into power through the influence of a demon (demons)? If not, can you explain how a kingdom comes up out of the abyss as the beast from the sea does? Where does the false prophet fit into this kingdom?
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Right, so the covenant of animal sacrifices that he hates so much he will help establish it at the start of the week? He will help set up something he hates so much....mmmmmm? No I dont think so..
I don't see it as something he hates so much as something that's not necessary anymore. After all, the false prophet (antichrist) claims go be God.
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With that as background, in Rev 13 we see the beast rise up from the sea, was given a mouth. At this point a human characteristic is given to the beast, and I believe it then refers to the leader of the final beast empire... the antichrist.
So I believe the antichrist is mentioned in Revelation 13 as the beast from the sea, who is given a mouth, and speaks boastfully and rules for 42 months.
Was wondering if you could clarify that a little bit please. Is the "mouth" the false prophet? Is the beast from the sea a human? Could you elaborate?
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I agree salty....... keep in mind though that Jesus said that no one can snatch us out of the hands of the Father... I take that to mean that we can't be tricked or fooled into the mark and/or worship of the beast.....
I think it will be a simple decision for most all of us. Worship the beast and go to hell...... or die.....
And I do wish that day were hastened.
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Yes, they will be hated so much that when they are killed, the world will celebrate and give gifts to one another.
They are hated because they stopped the rain and changed water into blood.
And caused as many plagues as they will.
I could see where the two witnesses could be viewed as the "Moses and Aaron" of the end times. By that I mean they could, in addition to shutting the sky, call out the false prophet and pronounce the plagues on his kingdom. The conditions before they are killed will be so oppressive. I imagine that things start to return to normal after their death, which is reason enough for gift-giving.
And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
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But you can't really do the buy sell thing until we do away with hard money
I think the mark has a dual purpose. Its required to buy and sell, and its used to identify those who resist the false prophet's rule...for beheading purposes. I could see separatist groups bartering or establishing their own currency but not having the mark will flag them for death.
Hard money could still exist but rendered worthless unless you exchange it for "electronic credits".
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I am just asking a simple question..... what in the book of revelation is that single entity that we would call "the" antichrist. I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying, I just wondered what in the book of Revelation you would consider "the" antichrist...... if anything. People seem to be looking for an individual they would call "The" Antichrist.
Actually that question is not just to you, I'd like for everyone to answer it....
I think its no secret that I see the false prophet as the Antichrist. I prefer to call him the false prophet since that's how he's referred to in Revelation. I usually put (antichrist) after false prophet for clarification. I think he's a man (coming up out of the earth) that is empowered by the demonic prince (beast that comes out of the sea) to display wonders and call fire down from heaven and deceive all those who dwell on the earth, except for the saints.
being a man, the coming up out of the earth part I can't get a grasp on.....
I just see it as a reference to man...Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground...in contrast to a demon.
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I am just asking a simple question..... what in the book of revelation is that single entity that we would call "the" antichrist. I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying, I just wondered what in the book of Revelation you would consider "the" antichrist...... if anything. People seem to be looking for an individual they would call "The" Antichrist.
Actually that question is not just to you, I'd like for everyone to answer it....
I think its no secret that I see the false prophet as the Antichrist. I prefer to call him the false prophet since that's how he's referred to in Revelation. I usually put (antichrist) after false prophet for clarification. I think he's a man (coming up out of the earth) that is empowered by the demonic prince (beast that comes out of the sea) to display wonders and call fire down from heaven and deceive all those who dwell on the earth, except for the saints.
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Hi Last Daze
There are 7 heads, and on the last head there is 10 horns with ten crowns.
So 7 empires.
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo-Persia
5. Greece
6. Rome
7. Now. (i happen to know it's the british empire, as they are as strong as ever, having all the powers to manipulate and control the world economy and divide nations by causing wars. They control the federal banks, whom the nations are in debt to, and they rule in secrecy, but no so secret if you delve into it and see what they are up to)
It's out of this last 7 empire (7th head) that the 10 kings come out of. So they are coming out of the British empire, the one that we have now, and must be here today scheming, preparing and setting up for this new system. I believe they are the NWO, and will show who they are when God allows it.
When the false prophet (little horn in Daniel) comes up, he comes out of them, the 10. When this happens, it turns into an eighth empire.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is one of the seven, and goes into perdition.
Can you see why there is no eighth head?, because the seventh head transforms. It's this same 7th head that becomes this eighth empire. No need for a new head, it's the same one! ....with a different system.
There are two beasts in rev 13. Demons cannot perform on their own, they need men to manipulate. That's their purpose, to corrupt and deceive. Satan never shows himself, but works through man to achieve his goals
The first beast is the 10 kings coming out of the sea.
The second beast coming out of the earth is the false prophet. The one doing all the miracles, and speaking great things. He is a man, Satan's man. He is called the Son of Perdition. Satan is not the son of anything anymore, but the Father of all evil.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Daniel speaks about this man Satan will use.
Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Daniel 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Daniel 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
Can you see that this man, is earth born. He doesn't honour the God of his fathers, so he is human, born of a woman. I thought at one time that Satan could be his Father, but v37 says he has fathers, so can't be. He has an evil spirit in him however, that is for sure;
Regarding the kings, the horns have crowns on their head. It symbolises authority. Kings rule nations, and not too many about these days, but in our time today, they are called Prime Ministers or Presidents, but same thing, leaders of nations. There will be 10 working together for the same purpose.
We're not too far apart in our understanding. I'd substitute United Nations for Great Britain though. Time will tell.
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The Harlot which depicts Babylon is sitting on the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, which are the 7 kingdoms starting from Egypt to the last which will turn into the 8th.
I think there are only 7 kingdoms, otherwise I would have expected 8 heads. I realize that its somewhat ambiguous but the way I see the "is an eighth king and is of the seven" reference is this:
- The beast being referred to is a demon because he comes up out of the abyss.
- When he is released from the abyss he starts to manipulate world events to bring his "feet of iron and clay" multinational kingdom into power. (I relate this to the first seal and feel that its been underway for a while.)
- Since there is no real "king" or no real single position of authority of this multinational group that he brought about, the demon is himself, by default, considered an "eighth" since he basically rules it.
- After the ten horns destroy the world's capital, the false prophet (antichrist) takes away their authority and declares himself ruler, becoming the seventh, thanks to the demonic beast.
I'm not terribly dogmatic about that but it seems to fit with everything else as I see it.
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God never raptured the Israelites when God was unleashing the 8 Plagues but I get your point, either way we can agree that God will protect us
I agree. He took Lot and family out of Sodom, He had Noah build an ark, the Israelites sheltered in place. Three different ways. Why not a fourth?
I personally believe in a 6th seal rapture but, as you say, God will protect us.
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That's the attitude I find a lot here, like, "It could be Jerusalem?!? Oh, God forbid, let's look somewhere else!" But based on the parameters of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation it cannot be anywhere else.
I'm not excluding Jerusalem as a possibility. My understanding of prophecy has evolved over the past 35 years and I expect, as we get closer, that it will continue. I will adjust the way I understand prophecy when I feel that a viewpoint is better substantiated than one I presently have. While I feel that there is better support for a different city, I don't disregard what you've posted. I keep it in mind. If I err in my understanding of prophecy then may the Holy Spirit lead me into the truth and show me the things to come.
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Been here before on this matter, and still no one seems to care about Ezekiel 16 where God first called Jerusalem a 'harlot' for falling away from Him instead to false worship.
What is it about today's Jerusalem that many of you are so in love with? The Jerusalem on earth today is still in bondage per Apostle Paul in Galatians. Only The Jerusalem above still in the Heavenly today is free, and is the Jerusalem all those in Christ Jesus are to aspire to.
When The LORD in His Word has already warned His people about the coming false messiah to Jerusalem to attempt to play God, with animal sacrifices and the Old Testament worship started again and thereafter an idol abomination, which both are against Christ Jesus, then how could someone think their Salvation will be in that kind of Jerusalem?!?
I simply refuse... to be fooled by those who come here to preach today's Jerusalem = Salvation type messages. Our Lord Jesus instead told His servants there in Jerusalem to get out when they see the abomination of desolation setup there.
Why do you think I'm in love with Jerusalem? Because I don't think it's Babylon? I've never equated salvation with Jerusalem. I don't think I've even heard that message. I just don't think its Babylon. That's all.
What concerns me is that if NYC is that city when the seven year agreement is made then there will only be 3-3.5 years to evangelize that city before it's destruction...based on the way I see things. This post is for thoughts on the idea.
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Hi Sister and thanks for your thoughts on the subject.
This capital city is a spiritual city called Babylon the great, where those who have not come out of Babylon dwell. Not a physical city, but the whole world.
I agree that there is a spiritual aspect to Babylon that is global, and I also think it refers to a literal city. I'm not sure if you've read post #4. My thoughts there on Babylon are: Its my understanding that the term "Babylon" is used to describe rebellion against God, or practicing ungodliness. The tower of Babel was built in order to keep from being scattered when God said to fill the earth. God came down and saw what they had built, confused their language, and they were scattered. Its believed that the tower of Babel was used as a center of all kinds of ungodliness. Years later Babylon likewise gained a reputation as a center of great ungodliness and the term "Babylon" became an easy reference for such a city. Referring to a city allegorically isn't uncommon as in Revelation 11:8. Peter also did it in a likely reference to Rome in 1 Peter 5:13. I know there are many interpretations of Mystery Babylon. Whatever your understanding, make sure it includes this: "And in her [babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.” Revelation 18:24
Correct. It would be interesting to know who those three turn out to be, but after the little horn rises, there will only be 10 kings.
Agree, these 10 gain control of the world. At some point, when the little horn rises to power, he will lead them (the 10), and then they work together. Always together.
The ten horns have one purpose and they give their power and authority to the beast that comes up out the abyss, which is a demon, and different from the little horn in Daniel 7, which is the false prophet (antichrist). See post #13 at the bottom where it says On a side note...
The 10 are only destroying the system of Babylon that we have now, only because they are the ones to bring in a new system, which will lead to all receiving the mark of the beast. They will destroy this system through the economy, in other words, make the world go bankrupt through their dark schemes.
I agree that the ten horns bring a new economic system and replace the "old order" with their new one. The false prophet takes control of their system and requires the mark for people to access their "money".
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.This is a good exhortation. After the literal city is destroyed, and order is restored, comes the time of martyrdom (fifth seal). It will be decision time for those who profess faith in Christ. If we untangle ourselves from worldliness now, and long for the appearing of our Lord, its an easy decision.
Thanks again Sister and blessings.
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If you're looking at any other city in the world other than Jerusalem as that "great city", you're just not going to understand what all those Rev. metaphors are pointing to for the end.
Jerusalem is where those behind one world government will setup their ruling headquarters over all the kings of the earth, because that is where the coming pseudo-Christ is going to set himself up as king of the world and as Christ.
The idea of Rev. Babylon being a port city just because those in ships look far off at her destruction is taking a metaphorical description of the Rev. Babylon concept and trying to make it literal. God is using Babylon in Rev. as a symbol, and that means go back to His OT prophets and note the associations with historical Babylon. But not just Babylon, but Tyre also, and any other of the 'beast' kingdoms of history, for that's where many of those Rev. symbols are from.
In Rev.18:13, notice one of her merchandise is the "souls of men". That is pointing to the history of pagan worship throughout the earth's historical beast kingdoms, and where paganism first began (in ancient Sumer-Babylonia), and directly to the false worship of the coming Antichrist in Jerusalem with the final beast kingdom on earth.
In Ezek.28 we are given a parable about Satan, but God starts off speaking about the prince and king of Tyrus (means 'rock'). But He soon goes into the topic of His having created Satan as an anointed cherub that covereth (guard of God's throne), and how he was originally perfect in his ways in God's Eden until iniquity was found in him. Tied within that description of Satan's original iniquity is the idea of 'traffik' (commerce).
Per history the rock island of Tyre was an ancient port city of world commerce off the coast of Lebanon. It had double walls around the island reaching up to 150 ft. God gave Alexander to conquer it, and the only way he could do so was by land. He had to move earth out to it, building a land bridge for access, which that land bridge still stands today. So that is where the ideas in Rev.18 about symbolic Babylon for the end is linking to the ideas of merchants and traffik (commerce); it's from the idea of commerce from the island of Tyre in relation to Satan who is the false 'rock' (for their rock is not as our Rock - Deut.32).
I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. If a brother tries to understand our Lord's Book of Revelation without first having done a thorough study in all of God's Word, the many symbols in His Revelation will not be understood. It's because those symbols first originate especially in the OT Books of God's prophets.
About the "ten horns" -- in both the Books of Daniel and Revelation we are shown they are ten kings. In Daniel the 3 kings that the "little horn" subdues does not mean a destruction, but an overtaking of their power. The three kings will still exist, but at a lower ruling function is what I see.
Something else, in Rev.12:3-4 we are shown an old beast kingdom that had only seven crowns in contrast to the one in Rev.13:1 for the end that will have ten crowns. That one of Rev.12:3-4 was when Satan first rebelled against God in the time of old (i.e., before this present world). Ezekiel 31 is giving a parable type description of that time, in the same kind of language like how Ezek.28 is pointing to Satan in the time of old.
The reason Rev.17 says the ten kings receive no kingdom as yet, is because they do not come to power until the beast king (Antichrist) comes to power, and then they rule with him for "one hour". You should know what that "one hour" is pointing to, for it's about the coming tribulation time. It is given in the symbolic sense, not a literal hour, but as a timeframe that the beast rules, the 42 months of Rev.13 is the actual time amount. That is the eleventh hour before the midnight of Christ's coming per the ten virgin parable. It's the last hour of the laborers of the field that got paid the same for one hour that the other laborers got paid for working all day, etc. Got it?
As for the "waters", in Rev.17:15 our Lord Jesus is revealing what the "sea" of Rev.13:1 represents in relation to that 1st beast. It's a kingdom beast, and it's made up of peoples, multitudes, tongues, and nations. That's all that's pointing to, not a city, but a kingdom over all the earth.
I agree that Jerusalem is significant in end times prophecy with the false prophet (antichrist) being there along with the two witnesses, the temple, etc. but identifying it as Babylon is a strained interpretation in my opinion for the following reasons:
- The initial symbolism of Babylon in Rev 17 is the great harlot riding the beast from the sea. The angel then begins to tell John the mystery of the harlot by explaining the symbolism. Another angel then comes down from heaven in Rev 18 and continues with a detailed description of what can only be described as a port city of tremendous commerce and wealth. I don't think that explaining symbolism with more symbolism is really an explanation.
- I agree that the 10 horns in Daniel and Revelation are referring to the same 10 kings. In Daniel, what the "small horn" does is described as: "and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it", "and before which three of them fell"; and "and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings." In order to subdue, or bring under control, there has to be an uprising. Three of the horns fell, not only fell, but were pulled out by the roots. I see that as the three horns bringing forces to bear against the false prophet and him calling down fire from heaven and destroying them. The other seven see that and say “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” Regime change. At any rate, the first three are gone so the "great city" must of necessity have already been destroyed before the false prophet comes on the scene.
- If the ten horns really reign for forty-two months, why does it say an hour? Why not just come out and say forty-two months or time, times and half a time? Its made clear in other places. Why obfuscate this one? Reinterpreting specific time durations is a slippery slope that I want to avoid. If the 10 horns reign for one hour (forty two months) and they destroy Jerusalem (Babylon) in one hour (forty-two months) ‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’ then Jerusalem is on fire for forty-two months while the false prophet is ruling from there? That doesn't make sense to me.
- The "waters" in Rev 17:15 is in a completely different context from the "sea" of Rev 13:1. I don't see anything that relates them to being the same thing. If anything, I think the beast that comes up out of the sea is a contrast to the beast that comes up out of the earth indicating that the first is a demon and the second is a human.
On a side note...I was recently comparing the ten horns as described in Revelation 17 with the ten horns of the fourth beast in Daniel 7 and noticed something that I thought might be of interest.
Revelation 17:13 says that the ten horns have one purpose and they give their power and authority to the beast that comes up out of the abyss. This is reiterated and expounded upon four verses later in Revelation 17:17. It says that God put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose and by giving their kingdom to the beast.
Compare that to Daniel 7:24 where it says that another horn arises after the ten and will pull three of them out by the roots.
This seems to indicate that the beast from the abyss in Revelation 17 is different from the horn that arises after the ten in Daniel 7. If they were the same, then why would three of them need to be subdued? They have a common purpose and they give their kingdom to the beast. God put it in their hearts to do so.
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Where in the Holy Bible does it say that some spirit devil man is to be born into human flesh? All of the responses given here use scriptures from parabolic writings like the Book of Revelation, which is clearly written in parables, but used as if they are to be fulfilled literally. So please, make this as easy as possible and just give me one... one verse that is a clear prophecy for a spirit devil man to be born in human flesh. Thank you!
The reason no one can provide a verse is because there is not one verse in the Holy Bible that directly says that a spirit devil man shall be born into human flesh; if there was then "other one" could have pointed me to it.
And what this means is that the Antichrist Translation is pure conjecture, based upon people's assumed interpretation of very unclear verses. And to give the few verses that are used more support and strength they cut them out of Biblical context and paste them together, and then people are taught that the all of the verses that speak of some sinful man near the end of the world are referring to a spirit devil man in the State of Israel.
The fact is, the Antichrist Translation is a teaching that separates verses from many unclear writings about the end times (parables), and then they are all pasted together to form a translation. But this is not good. It would be better to wait for those End Time parables to be unveiled all together. Is it really good Biblical practice to cut and paste verses from writings that are little understood? I think not.
So what I am saying is that the Antichrist teaching is all guesswork, based upon verses that have been cut and pasted together--parables that had not been unveiled. The parables are pasted together into a scenario, and that scenario has a spirit devil man appearing out of thin air to fulfill that scenario. It is all manmade guesswork!
Source: endtimesalert.com
Why don't you expound upon what you're talking about because at this point, I really don't have a clue. Some scripture references would be nice as well.
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I see numerology as being meaningless, if that's what you're talking about. You can essentially extrapolate a number or set of numbers to mean anything. Without any "rules" or "givens" you're basically adrift, left to your own imagination.
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Daniel 2 says the Iron Empire (Rome) will be split into two feet when it becomes a "divided" empire. History says that at the fall of Rome, the Roman empire split into two parts, Papal Europe in the west, and Byzantium (later Ottoman) Istanbul in the east. These two feet are prophesied to continue to dominate right until the feet are destroyed. You could say that these two feet represent the West, and Turkey... ie in modern days its the current NATO alliance.
Now in the times that this final ten toes beast is set up according to Revelation 13, the beast will resemble the leopard. The leopard was Alexander's Greek Empire. So if we look at the countries that resemble the borders of the Greek Empire, we see that these ten countries include Turkey.
So if Turkey is prophesied to be one of the two Roman powers that dominate, and Turkey will be part of a greater union, the natural assumption is that Turkey will lead that union if it is to retain the role of one of the two dominating "feet" of Rome.
Combine this with modern politics, where you see that the west is eliminating all competition in the Islamic world until Turkey is the sole remaining Islamic superpower. Add to this the rhetoric of Adnan Oktar, a leading Islamic religious figure who is promoting a Turkish Union to bring world peace between Islam, Jews and Christians ... and everything looks like we are heading there rapidly.
I guess that I don't see how any group of nations can qualify for the 10 horns based on the description of them in the original post, primarily, "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour." Revelation 17:12.
I see it more as a covert group of 10 that are associated with nations or nation groups that plan to rule economically. Their reign is short due to the false prophet usurping their authority.
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30 “I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31 “The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.
32 “And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.Joel 2:30-32
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I completely agree that there will be an Islamic Union at the forefront of world politics, except where we disagree is that I believe it will be a west-friendly Jew-friendly Union set up by the west. You Americans seem to be completely unaware how absolutely dominant you are in world politics. Any Islamic country that ever dares to compete .. can be snuffed out in a week.
While your media and your mega-preachers feed you images of the rising Islamic beast, your own hard earned tax dollars are currently creating a west-friendly beast empire.
Thanks for the perspective. Its always good to hear how someone outside the country sees things. I've been thinking about the role of Islam in the end times, what it might be. This may be a long shot but...after the false prophet (antichrist) issues the "worship the image or die" ultimatum there are going to be a lot (millions in my estimation) of people around the world who are going to be beheaded (per the fifth seal). I can just hear the false prophet asking if there are any volunteers to behead these infidels? To which he gets a resounding, "That's what we do best!". Of course, that's speculation, but the task is going to fall to someone.
I guess we'll see as things unfold.
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Watch to see where they move the UN headquarters to. If they move it.
I agree. The U.N. / NYC consideration is based on the assumption that we are quite close to a seven year agreement. I think the "model" still applies and that the 10 horns will manipulate it to achieve an economic infrastructure whereby they control the world's finances. Then they no longer have need of it so they destroy its capital, wherever it is, to demonstrate that they are now in control.
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I believe Rev 17:18 defines this capital, using the present tense. It says this is the city that rules over the kings of the land. This was written when Rome ruled over kings. I believe we need look no further than Rome. I go a bit further and define this "city" as currently Papal Rome and its domain of Europe. Thus it can be seen as Papal Europe with its dominant world trade, and its EU/Papal alliance.
The ten horns are ten Middle Eastern countries that will arise in a new Turkish Union.
It uses the present tense in a future context. Rev 17:17 says of the ten horns: For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose. Did that happen in the first century? I see it as relative to the context of a future event.
Concerning Rome...
Why are there two different prophecies in Daniel that talk about the same thing? I believe its because they have a different emphasis. The great statue seems to emphasize more the physical nature of the kingdoms by the materials used to describe them and their succession. The prophecy of the four beasts is more from the perspective of the demonic influence used to grant dominion to the kingdoms. Let me explain: the fourth kingdom in the great statue is seen as two separate and distinct things, legs of iron, and feet of an iron and clay mix. The fourth kingdom in Daniel 7 is seen as one beast. From a natural standpoint, the legs of iron can only be seen as a separate kingdom from the feet of iron and clay. The reason they are described as the fourth kingdom and not the fourth and fifth kingdoms is because they both come into existence as a result of the fourth beast in Daniel 7. Geography is not a factor. The common denominator is their origin, the demonic prince. The "legs of iron" was largely European. The "feet of iron and clay" will be global. The feet of iron and clay depict a conglomerate of nations. This group of nations undergoes a transformation when the ten horns destroy it's headquarters, the city which reigns over the kings of the earth. That's why I don't think Rome plays a major role.
Concerning Papal Rome/Europe...
I've seen a lot of people trying to pin the "Babylon" tail on the "Catholic" donkey. They should think more "big picture". Its my understanding that the term "Babylon" is used to describe rebellion against God, or practicing ungodliness. The tower of Babel was built in order to keep from being scattered when God said to fill the earth. God came down and saw what they had built, confused their language, and they were scattered. Its believed that the tower of Babel was used as a center of all kinds of ungodliness. Years later Babylon likewise gained a reputation as a center of great ungodliness and the term "Babylon" became an easy reference for such a city. Referring to a city allegorically isn't uncommon as in Revelation 11:8. Peter also did it in a likely reference to Rome in 1 Peter 5:13. I know there are many interpretations of Mystery Babylon. Whatever your understanding, make sure it includes this: "And in her [babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.” Revelation 18:24
I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion of:The ten horns are ten Middle Eastern countries that will arise in a new Turkish Union.
The Antichrist
in Prophecy
Posted
I'm not changing the meaning of beasts, just getting to the root of their existence. I agree that the beasts in Daniel 7 are described as kings / kingdoms. Daniel 10 shows us that there are demons behind the scenes, associated with these kingdoms. Demon is released from the abyss and causes a kingdom (beast) to exercise dominion. I'm not sure what it is that you want me to reconcile. What are the two differences?