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Last Daze

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Last Daze last won the day on June 14 2018

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  1. Thanks Sister. The issue that I have with the white horse rider being equated to the gospel going forth is that it doesn't fit into the "top-level" chronology that Jesus gave us in Matthew 24 and Revelation concerning the last days. The order is that the times of the Gentiles comes first, then the end. This is seen in Revelation as the seven Gentile churches and what must take place afterward. And Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:24b This is the maker that Jesus gave us to let us know that the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled and that we are in the time of the end when the seals are opening. The gospel has been preached around the world as a witness to the nations as evidenced by Jerusalem not being under Gentile subjugation. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations [Gentiles], and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 We are in the time of the end when the seals are being opened. This couldn't have begun until the gospel had been preached around the world.
  2. Thanks Marv. I've often wondered about splitting up the last seven. You're right about the prophecy being given in increments of "sevens" and that there's no mention of 1/2 of a seven, with the possible exception of a reference to the midst of the last week. Consider the following verse: But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-6 This verse demonstrates how something can be accomplished, yet not fully realized. The view of the 70 sevens that I see as having the strongest support is that all of the things mentioned in v24 were accomplished during the ministry of the Messiah, yet not all of them have been fully realized.
  3. The death of Christ, His shed blood, is what provides atonement for sin. Atonement for sin is one of the things that is declared to be accomplished during the 70 weeks. The death of Christ occurs after the 69th week. It MUST fall within the 70th week if it is to fulfill the conditions of the prophecy. What purpose does the time frame serve if the things in verse 24 can be accomplished at any time outside of the 70 weeks?
  4. Hey Uriah, I agree. The reason that I focus in on atonement for iniquity is that there's no debating how that took place and when. The rest of the conditions are somewhat debatable. The purpose of the OP is to show that people should not be looking for some future 7 year time frame because the 70th week is at a minimum, partially fulfilled. I've heard good arguments for both partial fulfillment and complete fulfillment of the 70th week. I just wanted to caution people about looking for something that's never given as a sign to look for.
  5. Every translation I read says that the Messiah is cut off after the 69th (7 + 62) week. The 70th week comes after the 69th. How far into the 70th week before He is cut off is irrelevant to the point that His death (atonement for iniquity) takes place during the 70th week.
  6. That's irrelevant because Daniel 9:24-27 is given within the constraints of a time frame. Isaiah 61:1-2 is not.
  7. The fact that Jesus' ~3.5 year ministry focused heavily on new covenant teaching figures in significantly too.
  8. I think that we have a similar view of the chronology of Revelation -- Chapters 6-11 are chronological with the 7th trumpet bringing about the return of Jesus. Chapters 12-19 primarily provide additional details to the events that take place in chapters 6-11 and tend to be more topical in nature than chronological. Chapter 12 describes the battle for the exercise of dominion over the earth. Chapter 13 describes the interplay between the dragon, beast, and false prophet as they wage war against the saints through the mark and the image. Chapter 12 ends just before the fifth seal is opened and the war against the saints commences. Chapter 13 tells us how that war will be waged through the mark and image, however, it begins by going back to the first seal so we can see the interplay of the evil trio.
  9. You have to look at where in the unfolding of events the two witnesses are mentioned - just before the final woe. Timelines are always heavily nuanced when you get down into the details. Suffice it to say that at this point in time we see things differently. I expect that we'll all make adjustments as time goes on. A seven year peace treaty or time frame is never given as a sign for us to look for so I would caution against leaning on it too heavily. I personally don't expect it at all but I realize that everyone has their own views of things. The signs in Matthew 24 and the seals in Revelation describe the same events and are what we should seek to understand and look for. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Matthew 24:32-33
  10. When the two witnesses are killed, the plagues subside which is cause for partying. It's the quiet before the storm, the 7th plague, the final woe.
  11. Yes, directly associated with as in immediately preceding. Seal 5 begins the war on the saints. The time of war brings the man of sin to the fore who then wages war against the saints. The beast and his 10 horns have been working behind the scenes for decades setting the stage for the rise of the man of sin. There are many facets to what he's been doing but everything he does is for the ultimate purpose of the man of sin exercising dominion over every nation, tribe, people, and tongue. I don't think that Satan gets cast down to earth until the second seal is opened, or shortly thereafter. According to Matthew 24:8, the time of war is the beginning of birth pangs. Things will begin to take place more quickly and with more intensity than before. In that analogy, the decades long activity of the beast could be analogous to the gestation period. The second seal is when things get real serious, quickly. I'm not sure if that answers your question since I don't know exactly what in Rev 12 you're referring to or how you view it.
  12. Piecing together Rev 13, Matthew 24, and Daniel 7, I see a specific time of war (seals 2-4) followed by a global specific time (3.5 years) of the saints being persecuted by the man of sin (seal 5). That hasn't happened yet which is why I think that only the first seal has been opened. Seals 2-4 address a time of war which I believe is responsible for the ensuing famine and plagues. The time of war is described as nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom. I expect that not many nations, if any, will come through unscathed. I'm not sure any of the other conditions, outside of earthquakes, are seal related. Yes, the evil spirit being.
  13. I've always associated the two witnesses as meting out God's judgment and wrath since they are seen as the plague-bringers and the plagues contain God's wrath. But I guess that's a discussion for another thread.
  14. Thanks Joe. I'm not suggesting that the new covenant lasts only seven years, but rather that it is confirmed with the house of Israel for seven years. I see the time of Jesus' ministry being the first 3.5 years with the final 3.5 years being just after the AoD when Israel has fled to the wilderness. I suspect that the two witnesses sent by God will accomplish the final 3.5 years. I agree with the timing of the declaration of peace and safety as being much later than most think.
  15. I'm not sure why Jesus would be excluded since He is from the tribe of Judah. The prophecy references the Messiah so I think it's applicable to Jesus even though He is the creator. I likewise think that the 70 week clock has stopped but not at the end of the 69th week. For ~3.5 years Jesus confirmed the new covenant with the house of Israel and made atonement for iniquity. There is still ~3.5 years left that pertains to the house of Israel that begins roughly around the time of the AoD. I suspect that Jesus will complete the confirming of the new covenant with the house of Israel during those 3.5 years through the two witnesses. Something is definitely coming. Daniel 12 says it lasts for a time, times and half a time and also ties it to the AoD. That's why I see the prophetic clock starting with the AoD and having ~3.5 years left, and why I see the 70th week as partially completed.
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