Last Daze

20 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Jesus will return in a heavenly manifestation visible to everyone on earth at once.

I also see this as vital to understand because the man of sin will declare himself to be God and this truth will prove him to be a liar.

21 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Last Daze, you say that "7th trumpet heralds the descent of Christ to the clouds where He sounds the last trumpet, the trumpet of God." Which actually means, as you wrote it, that the 7th angelic trumpet will be the one before the last trumpet. So you seem to be disagreeing with Diaste.

Correct.  I see the last trumpet, the trumpet of God, as immediately subsequent to the seventh angelic trumpet, not the seventh trumpet itself.

If you had one minute to give advice to a new believer who is unfamiliar with the last days return of Christ, and what you tell him would be all that he would know about it, what prophetic advice would you give him?  Jesus led with "See to it that no one misleads you" in Matthew 24.  How would you succinctly expound on that?

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The only nonsense sir emits from you lack of Prophetic understandings. 

When you've got nothin', fire the ad hominems.

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I understand you are frustrated because y9u can never win a debate with me

Lol.  No one ever does.  Secret king must win again!

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

but its my calling, its obvious prophecy is not your calling. 

The fact that you feel the need to state that claim over and over tells me that its not so.  It's akin to the current administration trying to sell the American public on Biden's greatness.  Its observably false regardless of what they claim.

It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation.  Rev 13:7

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude [from the great tribulation] which no one could count, from every nation and all the tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.  Rev 7:9

No mention of Mediterranean anywhere.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You are correct on the offspring to a point (I will interpret the Woman's Remnant shortly to make sure we see it the same way).  But you are making the exact same mistake as those who see the "whole earth" and do not understand it means only the earth in the Mediterranean Sea Region, and only the Nations and Peoples of the MSR area, so he will kill the Gentile Church Remnant but only in his MSR area. So, he will kill the "REST" in the 7 Headed 10 Horned area, ONLY. 

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman(Angry with the 1//3 who repented and fled to Petra), and went to make war with the remnant(Small part that is left) of her seed(Jesus is THAT ONE SEED as Gal. 3:16 tells us), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So, this Remnant of Jesus the Seed can not be the 1/3 of Israel who repents because the Dragon can't not reach the 1/3 with his A.C. Army so he TURNS and goes after the Remnant of her (Israel's) SEED (Jesus). BUT.........they have to have the testimony of Jesus and the 2/3 refused to repent, Zech. 13:8-9 says, so it can't be them, besides 2/3 is not a Remnant, so this can only be the Remnant Gentile Church who is getting killed by this man, since the Church is raptured pre trib that makes perfect sense. But its still only ALL THEM in the MSR that he comes against. 

Nonsense.

Let's try again.

Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.  Genesis 18:18

Are only the Mediterranean nations to be blessed through Abraham?  NO.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.  Matt 24:14

The gospel is to be preached to only the Mediterranean nations?  NO

Since Christians are in all nations in the whole world, and the man of sin persecutes Christians, the man of sin's persecution reaches around the whole world.  The following verses bear that out:

It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation.  Rev 13:7

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude [from the great tribulation] which no one could count, from every nation and all the tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.  Rev 7:9

The language makes it clear.  This whole nonsense is predicated on a pretrib rapture which makes it even more dubious.  One error leading to another.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is interesting. I just watched a video yesterday, literally last evening, where a person said the very same thing. He claims there are millions of them and they are just waiting for the signal to begin the purge.

 

Well, I'm not sure about millions being prepositioned, could be true.  But when the man of sin deceives the masses with his whizbangery, he will have a rabid following.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

The beast takes over in the mind of all people, not by rampaging across every continent.

This is exactly right.  The signs and wonders that he performs deceives the world and it is those deceived people who build the image that must be worshipped.  He has a global army of deceived people eager to do his bidding and rid the world of Christians.

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Conquering the whole world just makes zero sense, he has one goal, kill of the Jews,

And the offspring of the woman:

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.  Rev 12:17

Her offspring are all over the world. Consequently his reach extends around the entire world.

It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.  Rev 13:7

Stated in such a way as to leave no doubt as to the scope.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

I agree. 

What I'm wondering is:

Is it all from all time resurrected at the 2nd coming, or a smaller group from a narrow period, the rest from all time resurrected 1000 years later?

I think its a smaller group from all time and I think it revolves around the following:

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.  Matt 16:25

Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.  Gal 5:24

I don't see people becoming physical martyrs for Christ without first having become spiritual martyrs, losing their lives for His sake.  Again, that's a call only God can make.

17 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Everything adds up to this being Apollyon, nothings adds up to it being Satan. 

Well, that could be true.

"The ruler of demons - Beelzebul" Mat 12:24

"King over them - Apollyon" Rev 9:11

Sounds like the same job description to me but I will concede that it may be a hierarchical thing where Satan is over all evil spirit beings and has appointed Apollyon over a subset.

How do you view the 10-horned beast in Daniel 7, the 7/10 beast of Rev 13, and the 7/10 beast in Rev 17?  Specifically, are they the same or different?

18 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Seeing that Christ raises up to he whole house of Israel in Ezekiel 37 and Israel dwells in the land of Israel in safety without any walls or fences then it would be safe to say that it is the whole house of Israel that is resurected in the first resurection and dwells in the land of Israel during the millinium.

 

²² And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

²³ Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

 

This king and this kingdom shall be brought four in one day.The whole house of Israel all at once.

 

 

Jacob and Joseph were no dummies. They wanted to be buried in the land of Israel for a reason.

There are two types of resurrection, [1] being brought back from the dead to die again (Lazarus) and [2] being raised immortal.  Paul is addressing the second.

21 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Without getting into details, I think that 2024 is going to be a perfect storm. One for the history books. And I'm not just being US centric. I'm talking about the world. 

Could be.  I'm looking at 2025 myself.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If you do not understand these are Demons I can't help you, and you might want to leave the book of Revelation alone, its not for you. I think you know they are Demons, you are too intelligent not to understand this. Grasshoppers in the bottomless pit, really, I have never seen anyone who did not understand these were a Demon Swarm from the pit.

Of course they're demons.  You missed the point completely.  There's no mention of Apollyon coming up out of the abyss, only the locusts (demons).

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Have you ever thought it may be Israel that is resurected when Christ comes?

As Paul states:

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

If they are considered to be Christ's then, yes.

On 9/16/2023 at 5:35 PM, Diaste said:

Yes, it's that order that is most interesting. It's a succinct overview, yes?

Christ 1st, obviously.

Then those who are depicted in Rev 7:11-13 and Rev 20:4

Then 1000 years later those who are depicted in Matt 25:31-46, Rev 20:5 and Rev 20:12-15.

I agree with that definition. My question is: What does it mean to "crucify the flesh with its passions and desires."?

What does that look like? Does it look like Rev 20:4? Maybe it looks like Rev 2-3 where overcoming is the attribute that results in the rewards; overcoming the end of the age specifically. Does it look like clean living, long marriage and loyal respectful children? Quite the topic on it's own.

You are correct, there is no specific prohibition barring the in Christ population being gathered at the first resurrection from all who ever lived. 

Rev 20:4 is quite specific on who it is exactly that comes to life and lives and reigns with Christ for 1000 years. And it's not all from all time. Unless one is inclined to think that even those never having faced the beast are a part of those who did not take the mark or worship the beast. Could be but I don't hold that opinion.

One exception is enduring beheading for the testimony of Jesus and the word of God, that would not be limited to the end of the age GT worship or die beastly edict. imo.

I also do not see 

"those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

those who had not worshiped the beast or its image,

not received its mark on their foreheads or hands."

as attributes each person must have in order to live and reign with Christ. As long as one is present you're in. I could be wrong.

That is not to say that just because a group with specific attributes is resurrected and gathered at the 2nd coming, that all other believers not gathered at that time are condemned to eternal flame.

At the judgement there are sheep and goats, and Jesus is letting the sheep in for even the smallest act of love; even as the love givers were unaware of what they were doing! Pretty amazing. Such mercy by the King is surely mankind's great hope.

IMO, the sheep and goat judgment of Matt 25 is the same as the GWT judgment of Rev 20.

So then all in Christ are raised at some point. Those that are Christ's at His coming is pretty general. It would seem that if Jesus is inviting you in at the sheep and goats judgment then you are also His; then Christ's people are also raised at the 2nd resurrection.

For certain scripture says:

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

It's not everyone that is resurrected to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, as has been popular through the years.

And:

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Again it looks like the resurrected come out from within GT at the end of the age at Jesus' 2nd coming. 

That's what I read. 

 

Yeah, I guess ultimately God decides whose resurrected at Christ's return but there does seem to be an element of martyrdom to it . . .

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Already posted it on here. Follow along. Meanwhile check Rev. 9 which names him Apollyon, king of the pit. Then read Rev. 17 which cites him as an 8TH KING but of the Seven, and it shows the Scarlet Colored Beast as having NO CROWNS on this earth where the 7 Heads and 10 Kings is located. But like I stated, he is called the 8th King that was OF THE SEVEN (On this earth) and he ARISES out of the bottomless pit. 

Then in Rev. 11 we see this Demon/Beast that arises out of the pit kills the coming Two-witnesses. You have to combine all three passages to see it. I don't just guess brother. 

He opened the shaft of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the shaft like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened from the smoke of the shaft.  Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.  Rev 9:2-3

Per scripture, locusts come out of the abyss.

They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.  Rev 9:11

Apollyon is the angel of the abyss and king over the locusts.  It never says he comes up out of the abyss.  Another faulty assumption leading to a faulty conclusion.  The connection between the beast that comes up out of the abyss per Rev 17:8 and Apollyon does not exist.

We know who the ruler of demons is.

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

And we know who the destroyer is.  Satan.

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No sir, Apollyon is a Demon locked up in the pit

Scripture?

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, that Beast is Apollyon, LOOK BACK he has NO CROWNS on, the Rev. 12 Beast has 7 Crowns on the 7 Heads, the Rev. 13 (Anti-Christ) has 10 Crowns on the Horns or Kings because he is over the E.U. which arises out of the Head of the Roman Beast (which received the Mortal Wound meaning the Beast System went away for 2000 years during the Church Age). 

Apollyon was just a Demon placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region and Israel by Satan. He was the Demon that resisted Michael for 21 days in Dan. chapter 10. There are ranked tiers in the Spiritual realm. 

Tons of conjecture.  Isn't Apollyon Satan?

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Whole world?

You believe the whole world followed the little horn into the pleasant land?

 

Daniel 8:9

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

 

All 7.8 billion going to fit in the pleasant land or is it just some from all over the world who followed the beast into the pleasant land?

Do you follow Christ?  Are you in His throne room?

You don't have to be physically with someone to follow them.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

From what the scriptures say, only those who have gone through GT and faced the beast come to life, or are gathered alive, to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Everyone else waits till the 2nd resurrection at the judgement of the sheep and goats. 

Is that what you all see?

I don't see the word only in Rev 20:4 or Rev 7:14-15.  They certainly are part of the first resurrection but I don't think its exclusive to them.  According to Paul there are three resurrections unto immortality:

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: [1] Christ the first fruits, after that [2] those who are Christ’s at His coming, [3] then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Cor 15:22-24

I guess the question is, who are "those who are Christ's"?  Those are the ones who are resurrected at His coming.  There's this definition: 

Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Gal 5:24

So, spiritual as well as physical martyrs?

On 9/9/2023 at 5:07 PM, AdHoc said:

Nice scholarly study you made there. I think that there is one decisive point that many miss, and which, if dealt with, could be of great help. It is this.

The four (or five if you wish) world powers are consecutive. Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome all followed one another. That is, by the time Greece ruled the known world, Babylon was long gone as a world power. So how come the little stone only defeats the last one, but destroys ALL of them. How can you destroy something that does not exist?

Quite a few questions will be answered if this can be solved.

What are those kingdoms but an extension of the evil princes that spawned them?

The princes of Babylon, Persia, Greece, etc. will be / already are active again.  This can be seen in the description of the 10 horned beast from the sea in Rev 13.  He has the attributes of the other beasts.

Yes, the historic kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome are gone but their princes are active once again and ALL will be destroyed at the return of Christ.

On 9/9/2023 at 1:28 PM, Revelation Man said:

So, who is the "10" Iron & the Clay kings whom the end time beast/little horn arises from?

The ten horns belong to the beast who comes up out of the abyss. (Dan 7:3,7 and Rev 17:8)  They are primarily evil spirit beings who are subservient to the beast. (Rev 17:13)  Yes, they have counterparts in the natural realm who they have influenced to do their bidding but they are in no way limited to some historic geographical boundary such as the Roman empire, or Europe for that matter.  Their influence is global as they set the stage for the man of sin.

18 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

None of the things you preach are written about the two witnesses.

The only thing is says they do is kill And torment other people.

God will not be mocked and they will reap what they sow.If they sow torment,then those two witnesses of Jesus will reap the same.

Their Lord was crucified in Jerusalem and that makes them christians.Jesus Christ is their Lord and he commands them and his commandments are with us in the gospel.

 

These two witnesses of Jesus are not angels.They are christians who kill in Jesus name.

Revelation 11:8

Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
 

Now show me with Jesus's own words where he commands his witnesses to kill and torment other people in his name.

 

Mathew 7:12

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

 

An extremely myopic view.  Read Zechariah 4.  It confirms the spiritual nature of the two anointed one who stand before the Lord of the whole earth, as is also stated in Rev 11.

The corporeal nature of the two witnesses is secondary to their spiritual (true) identity.  They are angels with earthly responsibilities. They were responsible for the judgment of Sodom and the mercy shown to Lot and his family.

The law is merciful to the obedient but brings judgment to the disobedient.  The law and the prophets bear witness of a righteous God.  The transfiguration showcased the Lord of the earth and His two witnesses, Moses (the law) and Elijah (the prophets).  

The spirit of Elijah (two witnesses) also worked through John according to Jesus.  These same two witnesses will in the end times bring judgment on those who worship the man of sin and show mercy to those who repent, like they did at Sodom.

Angels of judgment and mercy.  The two witnesses.  Their corporeal form is secondary in nature.

9 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe people who kill and torment other people in Jesus name are good and holy.

8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I sure would like for someone to show me where Jesus commanded his witnesses to kill and torment other people.

The two witnesses are plague bringers.  The plagues are righteous judgment.  It's the same two witnesses that stood before the Lord of the earth as He visited Abraham, the ones who rescued Lot and destroyed Sodom.

Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood.  And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, the One who is and who was, O Holy One, because You judged these things; for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.”  And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”  Rev 16:4

55 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

It's the global elite that have been collectively planning  this for at least a couple hundred years.

And I might add that it's under the tutelage of the spiritual forces of wickedness in high places.