Last Daze

On 9/16/2023 at 5:35 PM, Diaste said:

Yes, it's that order that is most interesting. It's a succinct overview, yes?

Christ 1st, obviously.

Then those who are depicted in Rev 7:11-13 and Rev 20:4

Then 1000 years later those who are depicted in Matt 25:31-46, Rev 20:5 and Rev 20:12-15.

I agree with that definition. My question is: What does it mean to "crucify the flesh with its passions and desires."?

What does that look like? Does it look like Rev 20:4? Maybe it looks like Rev 2-3 where overcoming is the attribute that results in the rewards; overcoming the end of the age specifically. Does it look like clean living, long marriage and loyal respectful children? Quite the topic on it's own.

You are correct, there is no specific prohibition barring the in Christ population being gathered at the first resurrection from all who ever lived. 

Rev 20:4 is quite specific on who it is exactly that comes to life and lives and reigns with Christ for 1000 years. And it's not all from all time. Unless one is inclined to think that even those never having faced the beast are a part of those who did not take the mark or worship the beast. Could be but I don't hold that opinion.

One exception is enduring beheading for the testimony of Jesus and the word of God, that would not be limited to the end of the age GT worship or die beastly edict. imo.

I also do not see 

"those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

those who had not worshiped the beast or its image,

not received its mark on their foreheads or hands."

as attributes each person must have in order to live and reign with Christ. As long as one is present you're in. I could be wrong.

That is not to say that just because a group with specific attributes is resurrected and gathered at the 2nd coming, that all other believers not gathered at that time are condemned to eternal flame.

At the judgement there are sheep and goats, and Jesus is letting the sheep in for even the smallest act of love; even as the love givers were unaware of what they were doing! Pretty amazing. Such mercy by the King is surely mankind's great hope.

IMO, the sheep and goat judgment of Matt 25 is the same as the GWT judgment of Rev 20.

So then all in Christ are raised at some point. Those that are Christ's at His coming is pretty general. It would seem that if Jesus is inviting you in at the sheep and goats judgment then you are also His; then Christ's people are also raised at the 2nd resurrection.

For certain scripture says:

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

It's not everyone that is resurrected to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, as has been popular through the years.

And:

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Again it looks like the resurrected come out from within GT at the end of the age at Jesus' 2nd coming. 

That's what I read. 

 

Yeah, I guess ultimately God decides whose resurrected at Christ's return but there does seem to be an element of martyrdom to it . . .

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Already posted it on here. Follow along. Meanwhile check Rev. 9 which names him Apollyon, king of the pit. Then read Rev. 17 which cites him as an 8TH KING but of the Seven, and it shows the Scarlet Colored Beast as having NO CROWNS on this earth where the 7 Heads and 10 Kings is located. But like I stated, he is called the 8th King that was OF THE SEVEN (On this earth) and he ARISES out of the bottomless pit. 

Then in Rev. 11 we see this Demon/Beast that arises out of the pit kills the coming Two-witnesses. You have to combine all three passages to see it. I don't just guess brother. 

He opened the shaft of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the shaft like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened from the smoke of the shaft.  Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.  Rev 9:2-3

Per scripture, locusts come out of the abyss.

They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.  Rev 9:11

Apollyon is the angel of the abyss and king over the locusts.  It never says he comes up out of the abyss.  Another faulty assumption leading to a faulty conclusion.  The connection between the beast that comes up out of the abyss per Rev 17:8 and Apollyon does not exist.

We know who the ruler of demons is.

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

And we know who the destroyer is.  Satan.

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No sir, Apollyon is a Demon locked up in the pit

Scripture?

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, that Beast is Apollyon, LOOK BACK he has NO CROWNS on, the Rev. 12 Beast has 7 Crowns on the 7 Heads, the Rev. 13 (Anti-Christ) has 10 Crowns on the Horns or Kings because he is over the E.U. which arises out of the Head of the Roman Beast (which received the Mortal Wound meaning the Beast System went away for 2000 years during the Church Age). 

Apollyon was just a Demon placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region and Israel by Satan. He was the Demon that resisted Michael for 21 days in Dan. chapter 10. There are ranked tiers in the Spiritual realm. 

Tons of conjecture.  Isn't Apollyon Satan?

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Whole world?

You believe the whole world followed the little horn into the pleasant land?

 

Daniel 8:9

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

 

All 7.8 billion going to fit in the pleasant land or is it just some from all over the world who followed the beast into the pleasant land?

Do you follow Christ?  Are you in His throne room?

You don't have to be physically with someone to follow them.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

From what the scriptures say, only those who have gone through GT and faced the beast come to life, or are gathered alive, to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Everyone else waits till the 2nd resurrection at the judgement of the sheep and goats. 

Is that what you all see?

I don't see the word only in Rev 20:4 or Rev 7:14-15.  They certainly are part of the first resurrection but I don't think its exclusive to them.  According to Paul there are three resurrections unto immortality:

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: [1] Christ the first fruits, after that [2] those who are Christ’s at His coming, [3] then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Cor 15:22-24

I guess the question is, who are "those who are Christ's"?  Those are the ones who are resurrected at His coming.  There's this definition: 

Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Gal 5:24

So, spiritual as well as physical martyrs?

On 9/9/2023 at 5:07 PM, AdHoc said:

Nice scholarly study you made there. I think that there is one decisive point that many miss, and which, if dealt with, could be of great help. It is this.

The four (or five if you wish) world powers are consecutive. Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome all followed one another. That is, by the time Greece ruled the known world, Babylon was long gone as a world power. So how come the little stone only defeats the last one, but destroys ALL of them. How can you destroy something that does not exist?

Quite a few questions will be answered if this can be solved.

What are those kingdoms but an extension of the evil princes that spawned them?

The princes of Babylon, Persia, Greece, etc. will be / already are active again.  This can be seen in the description of the 10 horned beast from the sea in Rev 13.  He has the attributes of the other beasts.

Yes, the historic kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome are gone but their princes are active once again and ALL will be destroyed at the return of Christ.

On 9/9/2023 at 1:28 PM, Revelation Man said:

So, who is the "10" Iron & the Clay kings whom the end time beast/little horn arises from?

The ten horns belong to the beast who comes up out of the abyss. (Dan 7:3,7 and Rev 17:8)  They are primarily evil spirit beings who are subservient to the beast. (Rev 17:13)  Yes, they have counterparts in the natural realm who they have influenced to do their bidding but they are in no way limited to some historic geographical boundary such as the Roman empire, or Europe for that matter.  Their influence is global as they set the stage for the man of sin.

18 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

None of the things you preach are written about the two witnesses.

The only thing is says they do is kill And torment other people.

God will not be mocked and they will reap what they sow.If they sow torment,then those two witnesses of Jesus will reap the same.

Their Lord was crucified in Jerusalem and that makes them christians.Jesus Christ is their Lord and he commands them and his commandments are with us in the gospel.

 

These two witnesses of Jesus are not angels.They are christians who kill in Jesus name.

Revelation 11:8

Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
 

Now show me with Jesus's own words where he commands his witnesses to kill and torment other people in his name.

 

Mathew 7:12

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

 

An extremely myopic view.  Read Zechariah 4.  It confirms the spiritual nature of the two anointed one who stand before the Lord of the whole earth, as is also stated in Rev 11.

The corporeal nature of the two witnesses is secondary to their spiritual (true) identity.  They are angels with earthly responsibilities. They were responsible for the judgment of Sodom and the mercy shown to Lot and his family.

The law is merciful to the obedient but brings judgment to the disobedient.  The law and the prophets bear witness of a righteous God.  The transfiguration showcased the Lord of the earth and His two witnesses, Moses (the law) and Elijah (the prophets).  

The spirit of Elijah (two witnesses) also worked through John according to Jesus.  These same two witnesses will in the end times bring judgment on those who worship the man of sin and show mercy to those who repent, like they did at Sodom.

Angels of judgment and mercy.  The two witnesses.  Their corporeal form is secondary in nature.

9 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe people who kill and torment other people in Jesus name are good and holy.

8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I sure would like for someone to show me where Jesus commanded his witnesses to kill and torment other people.

The two witnesses are plague bringers.  The plagues are righteous judgment.  It's the same two witnesses that stood before the Lord of the earth as He visited Abraham, the ones who rescued Lot and destroyed Sodom.

Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood.  And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, the One who is and who was, O Holy One, because You judged these things; for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.”  And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”  Rev 16:4

55 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

It's the global elite that have been collectively planning  this for at least a couple hundred years.

And I might add that it's under the tutelage of the spiritual forces of wickedness in high places.

19 minutes ago, Scott Free said:

The transition to authoritarian world government will be quick. The Antichrist has been working behind the scenes for 40 years now bringing global leadership to his cause. Climate Change is one of them, the carbon tax will be the funding mechanism for his government. The universal call to unite will be around 40 days after to sudden collapse of the U.N./NATO structure and global economy, it is called the Day of Declaration. An event where all global media is planned to unite and broadcast his message simultaneously. This is when the general population will be brought aboard to bring the world together in peace.

Not sure about all that.  Care to name this Antichrist who's been working 40 years?

On 8/23/2023 at 9:32 PM, Scott Free said:

The fall of the prostitute is a separate event taking place at a different time from the Great Tribulation and Rapture. Her fall marks the transition into world government, which must remain for a little while until the Two Prophets work is completed.

That's how I see it too.  Her fall leads to nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom, paving the way for the man of sin and his world government which brings us his mark and the image.

On 9/3/2023 at 6:17 AM, Diaste said:

However, you probably are looking for an explanation of "And the Lord God will blow the trumpet," and how that fits in with the idea the loud, God's and last are all the same trump. Well, I don't see the Lord physically blowing any trump. He would give the command to sound the trump.

I agree that it's likely not a physical trumpet that's blown.  Have you noticed the correlation between God's voice and trumpets?  For example:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet.  Rev 1:10

A reference to Christ.  And this one:

Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come out.  John 5:28-29a

We know that a resurrection happens at the trump of God, which also occurs when His voice is heard.

And then there's the Sinai account of receiving the 10 commandments with a trumpet / voice connection.  Something to think about.

11 minutes ago, luigi said:

In my opinion, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse is another description for the four beasts in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13, who comprise all the worlds nations and are the four leading socio economic systems of the world today.

I'm sure that we all see things differently but what you say below is most important:

On 8/31/2023 at 12:29 PM, luigi said:

The Lord in the Olivet discourse tells us all to look for these signs of the times when the events therein start to appear. As I have been watching, I recognize many of these signs, but it looks like not too many others have been watching.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

The call to be ready and alert is repeated over and over.  This world is not our home.  When push comes to shove, and it will, how many will forfeit their lives for the sake of Christ?

On 8/31/2023 at 9:11 AM, luigi said:

As many of us are aware we are living in the last times, where then do events transpiring today correlate with those in prophesy describing these events?

We're in stage-setting mode, the first seal.

The white horse rider of the first seal is given a victor's crown and a bow.  His arrows are the flaming arrows of the evil one and he is given a measure of success in the spreading of those lies.  He will have the appearance of godliness but will deny the power thereof.

His goal is to throw down the harlot and enthrone the man of sin.  That's where we are now, in the process of destroying the harlot (deep state, swamp, apostate Jews).  When the beast and his ten horns deal the death blow to the harlot, it signifies the opening of the second seal.

On 8/31/2023 at 2:35 AM, R. Hartono said:

The next verse of Isaiah 61:2 of taking revenge and comforting those who mourn has yet to be fulfilled.

And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn.  Isaiah 61:2b

Who will proclaim the day of vengeance of our God and comfort the mourning?  The 144,000 who are sealed (anointed)?  They are first fruits who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.  Seems fitting that they would continue the Isaiah 61 passage.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Where I am with this is either an inability to understand, a lack of evidence, or  1+1+1=giraffes.

I simply have a difficult time finding a last trump after the one and only last trump, in a series of trumps, associated with the end of the age, Christ's return, and the gathering, of which I am aware.   

 

Where does this passage fit in with your sequencing of events?

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And march in the storm winds of the south.
The Lord of armies will protect them.
And they will devour and trample on the slingstones;
And they will drink and be boisterous as with wine;
And they will be filled like a sacrificial basin,
Drenched like the corners of the altar.
And the Lord their God will save them on that day
As the flock of His people;
For they are like the precious stones of a crown,
Sparkling on His land.   Zechariah 9:14-16

On 8/29/2023 at 7:24 AM, R. Hartono said:

Rev. 4: 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Listen to what they said about themselves straight to the point, loud and clear.

Rev. 5:9 ... .for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Rev. 5: 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

They shall reign on the earth in Jesus Millennium after the Great Tribulation wipe off the unGodly civilization. As they watch the Lamb opens the Seals showing most bloody tribulation of the world.

Number 24 means priesthood. 1 Chronicles 24 explains there are 24 divisions of all priests who served in the service at the Temple. See the 24 divisions here : http://remnant.net/sukkot_y.htm

The 24 Divisions represents all priests that served at the Temple, the same scheme that the 24 elders represents all the saints.

They represent the Victorious wise virgins fetched up to the Feast of the Lamb.

Rev. 3:21 Those who is Victorious I will give the rights to sit with me at My Throne.....

God bless.

In the throne room narrative of Rev 4 & 5, the 24 elders are there singing a song before any mention of the Lamb.  When the Lamb shows up, they sing a new song.  Something changed.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

The last trump is the 7th Trump of Revelation.

Good post.  Not trying to be overly pedantic but the 7th trumpet heralds the descent of Christ to the clouds where He sounds the last trumpet, the trumpet of God.

On 6/22/2023 at 3:40 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

Which brings us to the Lords 2 witnesses in Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

A good place to start concerning the two witnesses is when the Lord appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre, and His two witnesses were there with Him in Genesis 18.

On 8/10/2023 at 9:36 AM, FJK said:

A question I have been thinking about for many years as a part of another question I have (several questions actually):  Once the mark has been taken, can someone who has it repent of it and find salvation in Christ or not?  Scripture supporting this or denying this is possible would be appreciated.

(Not trying to start or change a discussion, just trying to clarify my own thinking)

 

There is only one unforgivable sin, and according to Jesus, it's not idolatry.  The mark and the image work together to coerce worship of the man of sin.  There will come a time when people refuse to repent of the mark and image, as the scriptures mention, but that is not until well into the plagues.  Until then, yes, it can be repented of.

It is the persistent use of the mark and worshiping of the image that is unforgivable.  Those are the people being described in Revelation 14, those who refuse to repent.

On 6/24/2023 at 1:24 PM, Revelation Man said:

I looked but its all wrong, there is no 2300 days, its 1150 days because there are TWO SACRIFCES each day, the Morning and the Evening, thus 2300 Sacrifices taken away means1150 days, which this fits into the Anti-Christs 42 month rule.

My thoughts too.  There is a word for days if what was meant was days.

4 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

We are told in the scriptures that our bodies are like houses, and like “temples”that are made for God’s Holy Spirit to dwell in. But not every man’s temple is being ruled by the Spirit of God.

There is another spirit that is seated in the place of authority that God had created for His image and Spirit to dwell in, and be worshiped; and that other spirit is the god of this world.

The seat of authority I speak of is the heart and mind of man, just as the head rules over the house of the body. Just like the head of Christ is God the Father, and the head of the body (the Church) is Christ.

We are told by Paul that a falling away from the faith would come and that man of lawlessness would be revealed “in them”.

Paul said this spirit “in”man would exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he as God would sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

Many believe Paul is talking about a flesh and blood man called Antichrist, that is to be seated in a literal brick and mortar temple in Jerusalem.

But I would remind you our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against “spiritual wickedness.”

Also many believe a third temple must be rebuilt in Jerusalem in order to fulfill this prophecy. But what many may not understand is that God often reveals spiritual things by first showing them in a natural way.
 

No doubt there was a literal brick and mortar temple in Jerusalem, but it was destroyed in 70 ad as Jesus foretold.

The first tabernacle and Temple was a type and shadow of spiritual things to come. The pattern of earthly things would be revealed in the pattern of heavenly things.

But God showed in the pattern of the earthly tabernacle, Temple, and sanctuary, that it was a place for God to put His name, and a place for God to dwell. 

But we saw by God’s words to the Old Testament prophets, why God said He would depart from the people and the sanctuary that was made for God to dwell.

It was the overspreading of all the abominations the people and the priests had done that brought on it’s destruction. It is much the same with the temple of our bodies.

Paul said, if any man defile the temple of God (referring to our bodies) him will God destroy.

Jesus told us in Mark 7:17-23 what defiles a mans house, and all these things is also what the Devil desires.

In the beginning man was made in the perfect image of God, spiritually speaking. But that inward image was corrupted in man when iniquity was found in man.

And from that time the Serpents desire became mans desire, and so this is also how man worships “the image”of the first beast, which is the Serpent.

But man also worships another image when he lives in sin, and that image is “the image of man,” or the image of self; as sin is self serving; or a form of “self worship.”

In this way man in his own mind has become his own god, because he does not worship the One True God.

The desire of the Serpent, is the same desire that works in the sinful man, because they are of the same spirit.

It is this spirit and 7 other wicked spirits that were foretold by Jesus to enter back into man’s house (temple) to fulfill the prophecy of the mystery of iniquity. Jesus showed this mystery in Matthew 12:43-45

So this wicked generation Jesus spoke of would have all these evil spirits enter into the temple of their bodies. And these wicked spirits would move mankind to a form of “self worship”by serving the lusts and desires of the flesh; which is the same desire to sin as the god of this world.
 

In this way, they have set themselves up in their own hearts and minds, worshiping and “serving the creature” over that of the Creator.

2 Corinthians 13:5

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

I agree.  Not many people take the time to understand the interplay between Satan, the beast and the false prophet.  They all work in concert so that the Satan possessed false prophet exercises dominion.

The man of sin (false prophet) will sit in a position of authority much like the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses, a position of authority, however, we are not to worship (obey) the man of sin.

18 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

That's correct,I don't believe they do.

Revelation 9

²⁰ And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

²¹ Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Yes, there is a point in the progression of the seven plagues where people refuse to repent, however, that point is not reached until late in that progression. 

What's the purpose of mentioning that people didn't repent if its a foregone conclusion that they couldn't repent?  Why mention repenting at all if it weren't a desired outcome?  Idolatry is a forgivable sin.

The plagues are judgments designed to reveal to the deceived that the man of sin is a fraud.  Some see it and repent, others don't.  Those who stay repented until Jesus returns on the 1335th day are blessed and inherit the earth and repopulate it.