dscapp

So what are your thoughts on James 5:19-20 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. Those two verses reflect the character of the epistle. It's all about calling people to a genuine salvation. The entire epistle is evangelistic. He calls the readers "brothers" but that is a general term. It doesn't mean that he assumes that everyone who hearing the epistle read are genuine brothers in the Lord. Some are brothers only in an outward way. They are not genuinely saved. He is talking about those who are genuine going out and leading those who are false brethren to the Lord. He is talking to a an assembly of Christ followers in general, but there were those among them, just as there are those among us who profess Christ with their lips but live sinfully. I agree with Butero that it is referring to the sinner's sins, not the sins of the person who leads the sinner to the Lord. I agree on this. I kinda knew this is what it was talking about. easyinfo puts it well too. The trust thing was a clue. Butero is good too.. Verses 19-20 It is possible for a person, who knows the truth about the *Lord Jesus, to turn away from him. This is not when a Christian does something wrong. It is more than that. It is when a person wanders away from Jesus Christ and denies the truth. Christian brothers and sisters should look after one another. So, when one of them wanders away, the rest should feel it deeply. It is their duty and desire to try to bring back to the *Lord Jesus any who have turned away. Suppose that a person brings another one back to the *Lord Jesus. He should know that by this God has saved that person from death. Most Christians believe that this cannot mean death of the body. James is speaking about the death of the *soul. To bring back a brother or sister to Jesus is a great work. As that brother or sister comes back to the *Lord Jesus, God will forgive all his or her *sins. A person who comes to Jesus with real trust and receives new life from him, can never lose that life. But these verses talk about one of them, that is one of that church, who turns away. This passage speaks about those who have heard the truth but they have not really put their trust in the *Lord Jesus Christ. http://www.easyenglish.info/bible-commentary/james-lbw.htm

So what are your thoughts on James 5:19-20 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

No, he can't.

Willfully sinning is walking away from God, but willful sin does not effect your salvation. It simply quenches the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't come down from heaven to indwell your body, then when you sin the holy spirit leaves your body and goes back to heaven. And then when you ask for forgiveness and repent, the Holy then comes down from heaven again and proceeds to enter your body again. That is just not biblical and is quite silly. The Holy Spirit does not leave and enter your body over and over and over again. Do you understand what I'm saying here.

OneLight, if they never turn back to God they were never born again to begin with. And this is what I mean by taking scriptures out of context. Hebrews 10:26-27 is not speaking about born again christians. Notice that other translations say, Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Even so, whether it is small or big you are covered. Why? Because it's not up to us to figure out what is a small sin or big sin. I'm not going to sleep at night wondering if the sin I committed was or was not under the blood covenant. Is this where we disagree with each other's scriptures until our hair falls out. I'm not falling for that trap, sorry.

Getting saved and then becoming lost and then walking back to God is not the same as believing you can get saved and then unsaved. Saved and unsaved is not biblical.

Do you know what you're doing here. You're creating examples of sin that are ok and not ok in your own mind. Sin is sin Butero.

Waking up one day and walking away from God and then walking back to God vs. believing that one can be unsaved. You can walk away from God one day and then walk back to God the next day, but that doesn't make you unsaved.

Attack what? No. OneLight, simply stated. Does this paragraph make sense to you.... You can't get saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved.

God did not complicated this area in the Bible. There are scripture that seem to point to both beliefs because of people taking scripture out of context. No that's not biblical. All sins are covered. All sins being covered doesn't mean you don't need to ask for forgiveness. Simply put, asking for forgiveness draws you closer to God. An unbeliever and a believer asking for forgiveness is not the same. You can't get saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved, saved then unsaved, then saved again then unsaved. OSAS or Eternal security or whatever doesn't tell people to do whatever they want. Those are lies planted in your mind by the devil.

Have you ever heard of a born again christian ever doing that. Seriously though, all sins are covered through the blood of Christ. OSAS or eternal security is simply stating this fact.

This is not what OSAS teaches, OSAS doctrine specifically teaches a fact about God's salvation. It doesn't just state this fact and then ignore every other scripture. People get something drilled into their heads, and it's hard to ignore lies. I understand brother.

And OSAS agrees with you Butero.

But a christian before the resurrection and after the resurrection are not the same.

No, that's not biblical. You can't get saved then unsaved then saved again, then unsaved then saved again, then unsaved then saved again, then unsaved then saved again. Thats very true. So what do you mean? How do you get unsaved? You can't get unsaved. You are now a child of God. God purchased you with his blood, thus you have been adopted into a heavenly and holy family. There is no going back, why would you (wanna) go back.

No, that's not biblical. You can't get saved then unsaved then saved again, then unsaved then saved again, then unsaved then saved again, then unsaved then saved again.

But it doesn't teach that, that's where people err.

I agree with everything you said.

No worries. Also note I added passages in the Bible I thought I'd share with you in the previous post. But let's consider the "if I upset anyone"... For perspective here was your opening post (Or OP) What if I were to change the OP to the following? How would you feel when reading it? How do people who believe that you you can't loose your salvation... sleep at night. I really honestly want to know, what are the sleeping patterns like. How do you sleep at night considering all the Bible has to say about the matter? Oh, this should be a fun thread. God bless, GE Sure, I think that is best for thread.

Good advice friend. I apologize if I upset anyone.

Well, there's a reason why it's called a parable. The same way Luke 16:19-31 is not describing heaven or hell, rather it's simply describing our relationship with God. When you accepted Jesus as savior you had faith that he was God. You don't just stop believing or stop having faith that he is God. The Holy Spirit doesn't erase his existence from your memory. That's silly. Your faith doesn't die, it may grow a little weak at times but it doesn't die. Mainly because it's impossible for the Holy Spirit to die. Jesus wasn't resurrected just so he can die again. Also silly. But there's a difference between a nonbeliever repenting and a believer repenting. When a nonbeliever repents he is accepting God's salvation. When a believer repents, he is simply drawing closer to God. The believer already accepted God's salvation years ago. Let's say a believer committed a sin yesterday and did not repent. The next day he drove to work and died in a car crash. This believer Cletus is still going to heaven because his sins were already covered when he became born again. That's what the blood of Jesus represents. It doesn't mean you should keep sinning and walk away from God. It simply means God is unconditional love, no more no less.

Hi Cletus. But Judas existed before the resurrection. The job of the Holy Spirit had different responsibilities before and after resurrection. Thats unrelated. Besides its a moot point anyway, I was quoting from chapter one in acts, pentecost aint till chapter two. Whatever you would like to define Gods responsibilitys as, has nothing to do with OUR own responsibilities. Furthermore what happened to ananias and sapphira for telling porkie pies to the Holy Ghost? They died. Thats after pentecost and the resurection. You can read about that in acts chapter 5. Well it's kinda relevant because the reason scripture talks about being sealed until redemption is because, when Jesus died on the cross he sealed up prophecy and salvation by the shedding of blood. John 10:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. There was no seal in the body of Christ before he died, therefore it wasn't finished yet. Before resurrection, the Holy Spirit simply did what he needed to do to get the job done.

Hi Cletus. But Judas existed before the resurrection. The job of the Holy Spirit had different responsibilities before and after resurrection.

But I can't find any scriptures that state what you believe, that there will be a sun and moon on the new earth. All that you will find is that the New Jerusalem will not need the sun or the moon, for God will be the light, and there will be no night. Revelation 21:22-25 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). Revelation 22:1-5 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. There is no mention that there will be no sun or moon, just that it is not needed in the New Jerusalem. So it's fair to say that Isa 66:22-24 is speaking about the millennium and not about the afterlife. As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” Why try to compare the two. It has nothing to do if there is going to be a moon and sun. Again this was a conversation Butch and I were discussing pages before you came in. That is why you do not understand why I would compare the two.