dscapp

Me and Butch understand what we're discussing, the depth of what we're discussing. You had jumped into our conversation spontaneously. Sometimes debates go back 1 or 2 pages in threads. You have been here long enough to know that the threads are for discussions and the SoapBox is for debated. Anyone can "jump in" at any time of a discussion and offer their view. You want a debate, find someone to debate and approach the Servants through PM to have one set up. Other than that, the forums are open. I'm not having this conversation with you anymore.

it is simple, if you're born again you're going to heaven. apostates are not born again christians.

Matt 7:21-23 is referring to apostates. they don't believe??? Not the way a born again christian does.

Matt 7:21-23 is referring to apostates.

But in regards to dying and going to heaven it is that simple.

The only way you go to hell is if you're not born again.

But why would their faith die if the Holy Spirit never died inside of them.

The bottom line is that once you're saved and born again, you can't be unsaved. You can't keep going back and forth. It's simply not based on biblical logic. Once the Holy Spirit indwells you, he doesn't leave you because you made a mistake or sinned. You can't just stop believing there's a God when the Holy Spirit already came to you and proved to you that he existed. Believing and faith only comes once. Once you believe that's it, you will be believe until the day you die, regardless of what sin you committed under the blood of Christ. That is unconditional love, and that is what God is.

Me and Butch understand what we're discussing, the depth of what we're discussing. You had jumped into our conversation spontaneously. Sometimes debates go back 1 or 2 pages in threads.

Because some think that since Isa 66:22-24 is not speaking of the afterlife and the fire burned out 2,000 years ago... that it means hell isn't eternal. In reality Isa 66:22-24 is using idiomatic language. ("And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.") It's describing all the dead bodies in the millennium and before. It's not describing the dead bodies after the millennium at the great white throne. It's clear that Isa 66:22-24 is only using idiomatic language in the 1,000 year millennium and is not describing the afterlife. Mark 9:43-48 is however describing the afterlife as eternal..If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44]b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46]c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where “ ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ Yet, I said nothing about what you are trying to turn this discussion into. I don't want to get dragged into a debate about the subject. If I did, I would of posted about it. When addressing someone's reply, please stick to the subject of the conversation. If you read the OP it is about eternal hell. What did I say that is off topic.

How do people who believe that OSAS is false...... sleep at night. I honestly want to know, what are there sleeping patterns like. How do they sleep knowing they could lose their salvation at any time. A fun thread.

Because some think that since Isa 66:22-24 is not speaking of the afterlife and the fire burned out 2,000 years ago... that it means hell isn't eternal. In reality Isa 66:22-24 is using idiomatic language. ("And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.") It's describing all the dead bodies in the millennium and before. It's not describing the dead bodies after the millennium at the great white throne. It's clear that Isa 66:22-24 is only using idiomatic language in the 1,000 year millennium and is not describing the afterlife. Mark 9:43-48 is however describing the afterlife as eternal..If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44]b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46]c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where “ ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

But I can't find any scriptures that state what you believe, that there will be a sun and moon on the new earth. All that you will find is that the New Jerusalem will not need the sun or the moon, for God will be the light, and there will be no night. Revelation 21:22-25 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). Revelation 22:1-5 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. There is no mention that there will be no sun or moon, just that it is not needed in the New Jerusalem. So it's fair to say that Isa 66:22-24 is speaking about the millennium and not about the afterlife. As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

But I can't find any scriptures that state what you believe, that there will be a sun and moon on the new earth.

n/a

Ok, so do you still believe there will be a sun and moon on the new earth or that isa 66:22-24 is speaking of the millennium only.

I think that people who believe OSAS is false take scriptures out of context on a daily basis.

You're grasping at straws Butch. Why create a new sun and moon if there's no use for them. Think think.. Rev 21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. Isa 60:19-20 The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory. Your sun will never set again, and your moon will wane no more; the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your days of sorrow will end. New moon has nothing to do with being "new" as in re-created. Isa 66:23 is describing a new moon every month, (month to month) in the millenium. It has nothing to do with the new earth. What do these translations say, month to month...http://biblehub.com/isaiah/66-23.htm

If it's speaking of the millennium only, then what about the dead bodies after the millennium. The great white throne hasn't happened yet. But Mark 9:43-48 is clearly referring to hell. No there will be no moon or sun on the new earth. The glory of God will be our light.. Rev 21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

hmm....

Jer 31:38-40 38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever." Isa. 66:22-24 "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain. 23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. 24 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." I agree with shiloh. Both of those passages are referencing the millennial period. Isa 66 isn't talking about the new heavens and new earth. Isaiah is comparing the perpetuity of the new heavens and new earth with the perpetuity of Israel's future offspring. Read verse 22 carefully it is only making a comparison. There will no moon in the new heavens and new earth so v. 23 cannot referencing that eternal time period. From shiloh - Isa 66:24 - This is not Gehenna. Evidently, after the war of Armageddon, they will simply burn the bodies in the field where they lay. There is no call for this to be an example of Gehenna. If that were the intent the author would have told us so. You need to let the Bible speak for itself rather than attempting to assign values to the text. The text is using a bit of hyperbole to make the point that the fire is going to burn a long time, well into the milennium and people will be able to see the carcasses and it will serve as a reminder of what happened to those who rebelled against the Lord. There is no connection here to Gehenna/Hell. Me - What are your thoughts on Mark 9:43-48 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44]b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46]c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where “ ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Another question. Ok, so if Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38-39 HAS to come to pass in order for the second coming of Christ to come to pass then, God created those people in those prophecies specifically fit for destruction, no? For example, can the second coming of Christ come to pass without these two prophecies coming to pass?

That makes sense.

Why does it take a lifetime though for people to figure that out. Why do people die nonbelievers and not see the signs while they're alive. Like if God is slow to drawing people in and John Smith died an atheist yesterday then was God just too slow.

Ok, I think I understand more now. Like for example, when someone hits rock bottom they can either turn to the false virgins or Jesus Christ. I have a question though, what specifically in their mind and heart is making them aware of allah or Jesus Christ if the holy spirit or false holy spirit hasn't come to them yet.