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It is not talking about a bodily image. It is talking about God' moral image. The reason that God told the children Israel not make any image of Him is because He provided them no image of Himself when he appeared to them on Mt. Sinai. God has no physical form. God has no literal arms, feet, hands, eyes, ears or mouth. God speaks of himself in terms we can grasp. But God is an omnipresent spirit. He is everywhere at once, which means that He can't be spatially limited by a physical body. From this discussion I gather one thing only and that is that you do not want to answer my questions, you are quick to criticise my thoughts and love to express your own thoughts. Thanks.

Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement. My point is that it wasn't invented by the Catholics. The Bible demonstrates the Trinity and it declares the deity of Jesus. The deity of Jesus is an essential biblical teaching that cannot be compromised. You are also disregarding the Biblical fact that Jesus is sitting on God's right hand side as Man. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. Jesus is not sitting on God's right hand. God is an omnipresent spirit. He doesn't have a "right hand." God has no body or form. To say that He is sitting on God's right hand is a figure of speech. The "right hand" is a symbol of authority. It is simply a way of saying that Jesus has divine authority and only God has divine authority. You are the one void of biblical fact. The Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ is sitting on God's right hand side and now you say God has no hand. Do you want to tell me that the Bible is incorrect? If right hand means authority, what does the left hand mean? I would love to hear your explanation seeing that you seem to know the Bible better than everybody else. The Bible simply uses "right hand" in connection with God as a figure of speech. Everyone knows that. The Bible isn't wrong; you simply don't study it correctly. That is why I am asking questions to find out the truth and all you can say is that I am studying it incorrectly? How should I study the Bible then? Please tell me your method so that we all can learn. Also to add to your statement that God has no body or form. When God had a discussion with Jesus to create man, He said "Let us man in our image, after our likeness." Now you tell me that God had no form. How come the man is formed all the same and even Jesus was formed like man. To be quite honest, you sometimes come up with some weird explanations. Satan used the same weird arguments to conn Eve.

Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement. My point is that it wasn't invented by the Catholics. The Bible demonstrates the Trinity and it declares the deity of Jesus. The deity of Jesus is an essential biblical teaching that cannot be compromised. You are also disregarding the Biblical fact that Jesus is sitting on God's right hand side as Man. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. Jesus is not sitting on God's right hand. God is an omnipresent spirit. He doesn't have a "right hand." God has no body or form. To say that He is sitting on God's right hand is a figure of speech. The "right hand" is a symbol of authority. It is simply a way of saying that Jesus has divine authority and only God has divine authority. You are the one void of biblical fact. The Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ is sitting on God's right hand side and now you say God has no hand. Do you want to tell me that the Bible is incorrect? If right hand means authority, what does the left hand mean? I would love to hear your explanation seeing that you seem to know the Bible better than everybody else. The Bible simply uses "right hand" in connection with God as a figure of speech. Everyone knows that. The Bible isn't wrong; you simply don't study it correctly. That is why I am asking questions to find out the truth and all you can say is that I am studying it incorrectly? How should I study the Bible then? Please tell me your method so that we all can learn.

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? Jesus is also God. He also was our Creator, with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are one God. Jesus rested from His work when He said "it is finished and died on the cross. He had obeyed our Father perfectly and He had kept all the commandments perfectly on our behalf.. He had paid for our sin on the cross and had put His righteousness on our account sheet. He had purchased us back from Satan with His blood. He also ratified the new covenant with His blood. The new covenant is all about what Jesus did for us, and not about anything we can do. By grace you have saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a GIFT of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 When we believe in Christ we trust Him and rely on Him. When we turn from our sinful life to God for forgiveness, He gives us His own Spirit and His own life to live in us. We are born again. He gives us new desires to want to live a life that brings Him praise. We are adopted into His family. No one has to keep the commandments to be saved. We want to keep them because we are already saved. God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Most Christians celebrate resurrection Sunday, First Fruits in the Jewish calandar and Easter Sunday in ours, and make Sunday our day of worship and rest for that reason. But there is nothing wrong in keeping Saturday. Paul spoke frequently of speaking to the Jews on Saturday mornings and speaking to the gentiles saturday afternoon and evening after sunset till midnight. Saturday evening was considered the first day to the Jews. He spoke of taking up an offering for the poor on the first day of the week when they were gathered together. I hope this helps to clear up your confusion. Willa I Peter 3:18 For Christ suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, That He might bring us to God, being PUT TO DEATH IN THE FLESH BUT MADE ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT, BY WHOM HE WENT AND PREACHED TO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON, WHO FORMERLY WERE DISOBEDIENT---- Jesus Christ died according to His flesh, His human nature and was buried. But after commiting his Spirit into Father God's hands while on the cross, he was made alive in the Spirit and went to preach to the dead in prison --. Eph. 4:8-10 When He ascended on high He LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts to men. (Now this: He ascended---what does it mean but that He FIRST DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all heavens, that He might fill all things. Rom. 9:5 of whom are the fathers and FROM WHOM ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, THE ETERNALY BLESSED GOD. AMEN Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. God the Word dwelt in the human body of Jesus. He was 100% God in 100% man. HIS BODY DID SUFFER AND DIE. He was MADE ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT and preached to the dead. It is said that He preached the triumph of the Messiah over death and the disarming of satan's strongest weapon. We need no longer fear death, knowing that we, our souls, shall not die but shall always be with Him. 1 Cor. 15:54b-56 Death is swallowed up in victory. O death where is your sting? O Hades where is your victory? The sting of death is sin, and THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW. But thanks be to God, Who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! Blessings, Willa Hi Willa, thanks for your posting. I just want to discuss one thing here right now and that is Rom 9:5 Your quote is one of the translations. Rom. 9:5 of whom are the fathers and FROM WHOM ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, THE ETERNALY BLESSED GOD. AMEN Then there is Rom 9:5 'to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all the blessed for ever. Amen." Nestle-Aland Greek-English New Testament. Rom 9:5 " Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. KJV Rom 9:5 " Whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ according to flesh. He being God over all, blessed forever. Amen. The Interlinear Bible. Hebrew Greek English We can see from the translations above that there are four variations for four texts. Analysing each one of them you will find it diffiult to come to the same concusion. There is also a possible fifth translation namely, Rom. 9:5 of whom are the fathers and FROM WHOM ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, BLESSED BY THE ETERNALY GOD. AMEN If the fifth translation is correct, then it will put a whole different perspective on the whole issue. Even the Nestle-Aland quote places a total different meaning to the whole concept. That is why I tend to look at the whole Bible to see what makes sense and gells with the whole teaching and not just using one text to prove my point. The translators of the Bible could have made errors in their translations, or placed accents on different issues, or added their own thoughts and that has definitely happened with the Trinity concept, as no two translators would translate the same scripture the same. There will be two different versions of each text between the two translators. That is why we have to accept that there are errors in the Bible and we need to search through all the texts relating to a subject and pray about it to find the truth.

Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement. My point is that it wasn't invented by the Catholics. The Bible demonstrates the Trinity and it declares the deity of Jesus. The deity of Jesus is an essential biblical teaching that cannot be compromised. You are also disregarding the Biblical fact that Jesus is sitting on God's right hand side as Man. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. Jesus is not sitting on God's right hand. God is an omnipresent spirit. He doesn't have a "right hand." God has no body or form. To say that He is sitting on God's right hand is a figure of speech. The "right hand" is a symbol of authority. It is simply a way of saying that Jesus has divine authority and only God has divine authority. You are the one void of biblical fact. The Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ is sitting on God's right hand side and now you say God has no hand. Do you want to tell me that the Bible is incorrect? If right hand means authority, what does the left hand mean? I would love to hear your explanation seeing that you seem to know the Bible better than everybody else.

Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement. My point is that it wasn't invented by the Catholics. The Bible demonstrates the Trinity and it declares the deity of Jesus. The deity of Jesus is an essential biblical teaching that cannot be compromised. You are also disregarding the Biblical fact that Jesus is sitting on God's right hand side as Man.

Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement. My point is that it wasn't invented by the Catholics. The Bible demonstrates the Trinity and it declares the deity of Jesus. The deity of Jesus is an essential biblical teaching that cannot be compromised. You are then disregarding all the Biblical references to Jesus being Man on the earth.

I will comment on what I see here. Exodus 31:13, 16-17 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; NKJV This was a covenant between God and the Jewish people, the descendants of Jacob/Israel. It is not meant for gentiles or non Hebrew peoples. As a Christian I do not observe seventh day Sabbaths. So you say that the Commandments of God are just for the Jewish people? What about the other people on this earth? Is God only a God for the Jewish nation or is God a God for all the people? Hebrews 4:9-10 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. NKJV So, if the Jewish nation is God's people, where do I fit in this picture. Am I not part of God's family? Read Romans Chapter nine to understand becoming part of God's family. Please explain Rom 9:24-27. Am I right that I can be seen as a child of God if I am not Jewish? Absolutely you are a child of God if you do those things. When you believe in your heart that the Father raised Jesus from the dead and you confess with your mouth that Jesus is your Lord and actually mean it, he will send the Holy Spirit to dwell within you and you are to be called a son of God for you have been spiritually born into the family of God. Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it. That is how I viewed it as well.

There is only on God, but there are three Persons in the Godhead. Jesus is God. God is made up of three distinct Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is a Roman Catholic Church teaching and I do not agree with that. No, it's a Christian teaching. But you deny the deity of Jesus, so you are outside of the authentic New Testament faith, anyway. Check the Catechism Simply Explained by Canon Cafferata, the official document of the RCC, also available on the internet, to compare my statement.

There is only on God, but there are three Persons in the Godhead. Jesus is God. God is made up of three distinct Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is a Roman Catholic Church teaching and I do not agree with that.

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? what you don't seem to understand is that the Sabbath is a picture or foreshadowing of Jesus as our rest. We rest in Christ for salvation, we rest in Him for all that we need. Jesus is the epitome of God's rest. He is what the Sabbath day was pointing to. When we enter into Jesus, we are entering the rest God has provided for our hearts. First of all, you did not answer my questions but you tell me that I don't seem to understand. I would like answers to my questions Please. Maybe I will understand after you have answered my questions. I understand somewhat. To keep the Sabbath day holy is one of the 10 commandments. It is certainly friday evening to saturday evening. I believe we are under grace but know the law is good. I want to understand God more and there may be something special if you keep it and honor God with it. Keeping it on any day we decide doesn't really make sense to me because God said to keep that day holy, and it was on the 7th day he rested, not one we choose to decide. I haven't found that in scripture to decide our own sabbath. This scripture is true but it is also true that what ever you do you should do by faith and not be doubleminded. That being said, I am free under grace but see the importance in a sabbath. Col. 2:16 Let no man judge you in food or drink, or regarding a festaval or a new moon or sabbaths, Thank you for your honesty.

If Saturday is technically? the Sabbath and according to you it is His (God's) day of rest, then Saturday needs to be hold as the Sabbath rest day? back in the day the hebrews had a list of all sorts of things that was not allowed on the sabbath. I had reviewed a list of some of the things on this list before. One thing I thought was wacky was a rule that limited the number of steps you could take on the sabbath. If we are not careful we will get to a point our view is legalistic concerning the sabbath. In Luke 14:5 Jesus tells them how it is when He asks them if you had a child or an ox that had fallen in a well on the sabbath would you not pull it out right away? Well, of course we would. The thought here is to not be legalistic to our approach of the sabbath. Saying it must be on saturday, or sunday, or whatever day is leaning towards being legalistic. The bible tells us if we are led of the spirit, we are not under the law. Liberty is an awesome thing to have. Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath and as I pointed out Jesus understands if we must work on the sabbath. In mark 2:27 it says the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. The important thing here is man being able to refresh his spirit in The Lord. The six days of work can realy wear one down and we need that spiritual refreshing. This rest is what the sabbath exsists for. God dont want us tired and wore out and stressed. Which ever day you want to hold the sabbath is totaly fine with The King. Some people believe the sabbath is on sunday, and hold thier sabbath on that day, and God honors that. If you decide to hold it on saturday, thats fine too. If you want to do it on thursday, thats ok too. We are made in His image and likeness and He took a day to rest and told us to do the same. He always has our best intentions in mind. He also understands some people absolutly have to work on saturday so thier family can eat. The important thing is to enter in His rest. All the other stuff starts heading down a road called leagalistic lane. Thats a dead end street. I cannot accept the statement that any day to be used as a Sabbath is ok as you quote it. God was very specific. The first seventh day of the creation period, was the only day that God has blessed and holied and that seven day cycle has never changed from creation right up to now. Why did God mention it in the Ten Commandments if He knew that it was not necessary in the future? Are you also implying that the Ten Commandments are not valid anymore today?

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? what you don't seem to understand is that the Sabbath is a picture or foreshadowing of Jesus as our rest. We rest in Christ for salvation, we rest in Him for all that we need. Jesus is the epitome of God's rest. He is what the Sabbath day was pointing to. When we enter into Jesus, we are entering the rest God has provided for our hearts. hi the Sabbath day was a sanctified day to the Lord God ,but now since Christ the rule is that we are on a 24/7 schedules for their is nothing we do or think(should) that is not in line with God's will , So, you are saying that since Jesus came to the earth, the Sabbath is not important to us and thus nullify the Commandment of God?

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? Jesus is also God. He also was our Creator, with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are one God. Jesus rested from His work when He said "it is finished and died on the cross. He had obeyed our Father perfectly and He had kept all the commandments perfectly on our behalf.. He had paid for our sin on the cross and had put His righteousness on our account sheet. He had purchased us back from Satan with His blood. He also ratified the new covenant with His blood. The new covenant is all about what Jesus did for us, and not about anything we can do. By grace you have saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a GIFT of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 When we believe in Christ we trust Him and rely on Him. When we turn from our sinful life to God for forgiveness, He gives us His own Spirit and His own life to live in us. We are born again. He gives us new desires to want to live a life that brings Him praise. We are adopted into His family. No one has to keep the commandments to be saved. We want to keep them because we are already saved. God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Most Christians celebrate resurrection Sunday, First Fruits in the Jewish calandar and Easter Sunday in ours, and make Sunday our day of worship and rest for that reason. But there is nothing wrong in keeping Saturday. Paul spoke frequently of speaking to the Jews on Saturday mornings and speaking to the gentiles saturday afternoon and evening after sunset till midnight. Saturday evening was considered the first day to the Jews. He spoke of taking up an offering for the poor on the first day of the week when they were gathered together. I hope this helps to clear up your confusion. Willa WilIa, Thanks for your reply. I have read many of the articles that were posted on this site as was suggested by some members and there are many different views, some that makes sense and others very confusing. I believe the following. Jesus was God. He has given up His Godly status when He became man. He died as man and was resurrected as man and is now sitting on the right hand side of God as man, as the High Priest.There are now two separate entities. The Holy Spirit on this earth did not exist until Jesus was resurrected. God's powers worked through Jesus Christ when He was on earth, and He received it when He was baptized. Only the people that accept Jesus Christ in their lives, the born again, receives this same power from Jesus Christ to work on earth ie. the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. Man cannot go direct to God by cutting Jesus out of the picture. I further believe that when you have accepted Jesus Christ in your life, He has written the law of God on your heart which means that you will want to live out the law that God has given to us as the law of God is the clear indication of what pure love is. Pure love to love God and to your neighbour. By not using His Name in vain, and not carving out statues and pray to them, and holding the Sabbath, your show your pure love to God, by not stealing, murdering, coveting etc, you show your pure love towards your neighbour. God was very specific with His Commandments, and He does not make mistakes, to show what this pure love is. If He thought that we could use any day to rest He would not have mentioned it in the Commandments, but He spesifically mentioned Sabbath, and that is linked to the first seventh day of creation, which incidentally was holied and blessed by God Himself, and this seven day cycle has never changed from creation up to now. The Saturday is the Sabbath and it is still valid and in line with God's Commandments and still needs to be respected, if we love God. Paul has also said that the Commandments be held until Jesus comes again and John said that nothing of the Commandments may be changed.There are many quotes in the Bible that if we love God, we will keep the Commandments, all of them, and not nine out of ten. Satan is the master deceiver. He does not want people to be saved, to be children of God. That is why he is using his agents to spread the lies or theories, to create doubt in mankind's mind. His first victim was Eve and he tried his deception with Jesus Christ but failed, and that all by twisting the Word of God. We need to be very aware of what is being said and to compare it to God's Word and to see whether it is twisted or not. Satan is doing this as he knows that he has no chance in heaven anymore, and that he is going to be destroyed by fire and brimstone. He is doing everything in his power to destroy mankind as they still have a chance to enter the gates of heaven. The only way for mankind to survive these attacks from Satan, is to love and obey God, and God has given us the guidelines, the Ten Commandments. People are deceived if they believe that God the Son and the risen ascended Christ are two different entities. That is not the Christian faith. They are one God from the time Jesus was born as God With Us Emmanuel. He was God the Son in human flesh on earth. Satan will be overcome by the Blood of Christ and the word of our testimonies (as to our relationship with God). We can only testify to our experience in court. Satan is never overcome by how well we keep the 10 commandments. As you said, they are guidelines, not the law that we must uphold to make it into heaven. People are deceived if they believe we must keep the sabbath to keep from going to hell. Brother, I am deeply concerned that you have been misguided. Blessings, Willa I do not say that God the Son and the risen ascended Christ are two different entities. God the Son, also the Word that was with God and then became flesh on this earth, is Jesus Christ. God gave His Son the instruction to come down to this earth to do the specific tasks. But to do that He, the Son of God or Jesus, had to give up His Godly status that He had, to become man. That left God the Father alone in heaven while Jesus was on this earth. If Jesus was God on this earth, He could not have died, as a God cannot die. Jesus had to become man to show the people around Him what can and cannot be done as man. He had to be on this earth to prove to mankind that God exists and that He has a lot of power. Jesus did not do the miracles Himself but it was God that worked through Him, Jesus Christ. He also had to show mankind who Satan was and his works and Jesus' job was to break the works of Satan. Jesus had to die on the cross as man, to take the whole world's sin on His shoulders, and not God, otherwise His death would be a bluff to mankind. He died on the cross and was buried like man and God raised Him from the dead. Jesus did not raise Himself. Jesus is now sitting on the right hand side of God, still with the wound marks on His hands, feet and side. Satan now has therefore no proof that Jesus did not die on the cross as man, and that He was a God who could in fact not die, as Jesus can show the people the wounds at judgement day and thus proving Satan incorrect. Please re-read the first article and look at the total picture that I gave and please do not misquote what I have said. Nowhere did I quote the word hell or that you must keep the Sabbath to keep from going to hell . Jesus is God. When you quoted part of John 1 you stopped short a few words. It says the Word was with God and The Word WAS God. Also check out John 18: 5-7. It says several times I am he. The part I AM is Gods name. He basicly called Himself God. If you look into the text pretranslation its clear. That is your opinion but is not logical. Please explain to me the following if you say Jesus is God. Did Jesus send Himself to earth? Was Father God man on this earth? Did Jesus(God) pray to Himself, did Jesus(God) baptize Himself with the Holy Spirit, did Jesus Jesus (God) heal people Himself with His own powers, did Jesus(God) die on the cross as I believe that God cannot die, did Jesus(God) raise Himself from the grave, did Jesus (God) take Himself to heaven, did Jesus(God) take a seat on His own right hand side? If you honestly cannot say yes to any of these questions, then I believe I am right in my belief. How many Gods are there in existance right now? No, Jesus forgave sins, received worship, exercised personal power over death and nature and claimed to be eternal life and the giver of Eternal life. Jesus was and is God. How many Gods are there right now?

And that is why Christ had to come in the first place. Because none of us do. My point is that you are inconsistent. If the standard of loving God is keeping the commandments, then until you are keeping all 613, until you have visited your perfectionism on your own disobedience of even one of the 613 commandments, you have nothing to say to me about the Sabbath. According to my knowledge which I extracted from the Bible is that there are only Ten Commandments and not 613 of them. the law contains the commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength, there is a commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. There are commandments about the seven annual festivals, commandments about the sacrifices and the dietary laws. All of that is contained in the law, outside of the ten commandments. Anyone who knows the Bible knows there are 613 commadments. There are commandments about hygiene and ethics. Frankly your knowledge isn't that extensive. See above.... Maybe you need to starting reading it better. Yeah, you are inconsistent. Either you keep the whole law, all 613 commandments or none of it. I will keep the Ten Commandments that is written on my heart. Thanks for all your comments.

I have made a study on Jesus Christ and that is the only logical conclusion that I could come to. There are too many unresolved questions if I accept that Jesus was God on this earth and I have posted these questions on some of my discussions. The Bible has been given to us to read and understand. God will give those that really want to know the truth as I understand it, the knowledge and logic to sort out the many facts in the Bible to picture to whole truth. To those who have their own minds and follow their teachers, ministers, pastors and priests blindly, will suffer the consequences. I do not belong to any church and therefore make up my own mind and everything that I write here gells with the teaching of the Bible. I am also here to learn because there are many things that we all need to know and I am prepared to change where necessary. But before any change take place, I need to be convinced as anybody else on this forum.

Do you think that the Sabbath is important?

The problem with that is that the Bible doesn't make that distinction. That is just something you manufactured. Nowhere does the Bible say that some of the law is temporary, but the ten commandments are permanent. There is a definite comparison between the old laws and the Commandments. 1 Cor 7:19 refers to the old laws ie. circumcision and says that it is nothing, which means it has no value, but the upholding the Commandments of God which is now important and has value. The reference to the Commandments include all ten of them. Gal 5:6 confirms that in Jesus the old law of circumcision/non-circumcision has no value, also a comparison between the old laws and the Love commandments which Jesus has taught. In Gal 6:15 you will also note a similar comparison and it mentions that the circumcision, linked to the old laws, has no power but the power lies in Jesus Christ. So my statement was not manufactured, but based on scripture. These texts confirm that the coming of Jesus Christ, has nullified all the old laws and for Him to confirm the laws that God has written on stone is still valid, says it all. The fact that Mat 19:17 confirms that to enter life, you need to keep the Commandments. 2 Joh 1:6 confirms that you still need to keep the Commandments and 1 Tim 6:14 confirms that the Commandments be kept until Jesus comes again. Everything here has been proven by scripture from the Bible. I trust that you will accept this. If you don't, you need to supply me with scripture from the Bible to prove me wrong. So now you are saying that in order to have eternal life, we must keep the ten commandments including the Sabbath? Salvation is based on keeping the law according to you? I did not say that "in order to have eternal life, we must keep the ten commandments including the Sabbath" and that "Salvation is based on keeping the law", for one moment. I believe that to have eternal life is to have Jesus in your life first of all. You have to accept Jesus as the Son of God and to follow Him. You cannot ignore Jesus and go direct to God. Secondly, you should go through the baptism process to wash off all the old sins. You are also baptized with the Holy Spirit when you have accepted Jesus Christ in your life. In this process of becoming a child of Jesus Christ, the Commandments of God will be written on your heart by the Holy Spirit, which means that you will want to obey the Commandments as is, with no exceptions as you know then that you will please God by doing it. God knows your heart and when He sees that you are serious of being His child, He will give you the grace and strength to persist in it. It is only then when it really becomes easy to follow the Commandments of God. I also believe that God will only give you light when He sees that you are really interested in becoming a true child. The Bible quotes that in the end of times people will see but not see and hear but will not hear. We all need to open our eyes and ears and accept that we could be wrong in what we are believing in and be prepared to change if it be necessary. That is why the Bible also quote that we need to search for the truth between all the teachings, and to retain that which is right. We cannot all be right because we all differ and there is only one truth.

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? Jesus is also God. He also was our Creator, with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are one God. Jesus rested from His work when He said "it is finished and died on the cross. He had obeyed our Father perfectly and He had kept all the commandments perfectly on our behalf.. He had paid for our sin on the cross and had put His righteousness on our account sheet. He had purchased us back from Satan with His blood. He also ratified the new covenant with His blood. The new covenant is all about what Jesus did for us, and not about anything we can do. By grace you have saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a GIFT of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 When we believe in Christ we trust Him and rely on Him. When we turn from our sinful life to God for forgiveness, He gives us His own Spirit and His own life to live in us. We are born again. He gives us new desires to want to live a life that brings Him praise. We are adopted into His family. No one has to keep the commandments to be saved. We want to keep them because we are already saved. God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Most Christians celebrate resurrection Sunday, First Fruits in the Jewish calandar and Easter Sunday in ours, and make Sunday our day of worship and rest for that reason. But there is nothing wrong in keeping Saturday. Paul spoke frequently of speaking to the Jews on Saturday mornings and speaking to the gentiles saturday afternoon and evening after sunset till midnight. Saturday evening was considered the first day to the Jews. He spoke of taking up an offering for the poor on the first day of the week when they were gathered together. I hope this helps to clear up your confusion. Willa WilIa, Thanks for your reply. I have read many of the articles that were posted on this site as was suggested by some members and there are many different views, some that makes sense and others very confusing. I believe the following. Jesus was God. He has given up His Godly status when He became man. He died as man and was resurrected as man and is now sitting on the right hand side of God as man, as the High Priest.There are now two separate entities. The Holy Spirit on this earth did not exist until Jesus was resurrected. God's powers worked through Jesus Christ when He was on earth, and He received it when He was baptized. Only the people that accept Jesus Christ in their lives, the born again, receives this same power from Jesus Christ to work on earth ie. the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. Man cannot go direct to God by cutting Jesus out of the picture. I further believe that when you have accepted Jesus Christ in your life, He has written the law of God on your heart which means that you will want to live out the law that God has given to us as the law of God is the clear indication of what pure love is. Pure love to love God and to your neighbour. By not using His Name in vain, and not carving out statues and pray to them, and holding the Sabbath, your show your pure love to God, by not stealing, murdering, coveting etc, you show your pure love towards your neighbour. God was very specific with His Commandments, and He does not make mistakes, to show what this pure love is. If He thought that we could use any day to rest He would not have mentioned it in the Commandments, but He spesifically mentioned Sabbath, and that is linked to the first seventh day of creation, which incidentally was holied and blessed by God Himself, and this seven day cycle has never changed from creation up to now. The Saturday is the Sabbath and it is still valid and in line with God's Commandments and still needs to be respected, if we love God. Paul has also said that the Commandments be held until Jesus comes again and John said that nothing of the Commandments may be changed.There are many quotes in the Bible that if we love God, we will keep the Commandments, all of them, and not nine out of ten. Satan is the master deceiver. He does not want people to be saved, to be children of God. That is why he is using his agents to spread the lies or theories, to create doubt in mankind's mind. His first victim was Eve and he tried his deception with Jesus Christ but failed, and that all by twisting the Word of God. We need to be very aware of what is being said and to compare it to God's Word and to see whether it is twisted or not. Satan is doing this as he knows that he has no chance in heaven anymore, and that he is going to be destroyed by fire and brimstone. He is doing everything in his power to destroy mankind as they still have a chance to enter the gates of heaven. The only way for mankind to survive these attacks from Satan, is to love and obey God, and God has given us the guidelines, the Ten Commandments. People are deceived if they believe that God the Son and the risen ascended Christ are two different entities. That is not the Christian faith. They are one God from the time Jesus was born as God With Us Emmanuel. He was God the Son in human flesh on earth. Satan will be overcome by the Blood of Christ and the word of our testimonies (as to our relationship with God). We can only testify to our experience in court. Satan is never overcome by how well we keep the 10 commandments. As you said, they are guidelines, not the law that we must uphold to make it into heaven. People are deceived if they believe we must keep the sabbath to keep from going to hell. Brother, I am deeply concerned that you have been misguided. Blessings, Willa I do not say that God the Son and the risen ascended Christ are two different entities. God the Son, also the Word that was with God and then became flesh on this earth, is Jesus Christ. God gave His Son the instruction to come down to this earth to do the specific tasks. But to do that He, the Son of God or Jesus, had to give up His Godly status that He had, to become man. That left God the Father alone in heaven while Jesus was on this earth. If Jesus was God on this earth, He could not have died, as a God cannot die. Jesus had to become man to show the people around Him what can and cannot be done as man. He had to be on this earth to prove to mankind that God exists and that He has a lot of power. Jesus did not do the miracles Himself but it was God that worked through Him, Jesus Christ. He also had to show mankind who Satan was and his works and Jesus' job was to break the works of Satan. Jesus had to die on the cross as man, to take the whole world's sin on His shoulders, and not God, otherwise His death would be a bluff to mankind. He died on the cross and was buried like man and God raised Him from the dead. Jesus did not raise Himself. Jesus is now sitting on the right hand side of God, still with the wound marks on His hands, feet and side. Satan now has therefore no proof that Jesus did not die on the cross as man, and that He was a God who could in fact not die, as Jesus can show the people the wounds at judgement day and thus proving Satan incorrect. Please re-read the first article and look at the total picture that I gave and please do not misquote what I have said. Nowhere did I quote the word hell or that you must keep the Sabbath to keep from going to hell . Jesus is God. When you quoted part of John 1 you stopped short a few words. It says the Word was with God and The Word WAS God. Also check out John 18: 5-7. It says several times I am he. The part I AM is Gods name. He basicly called Himself God. If you look into the text pretranslation its clear. That is your opinion but is not logical. Please explain to me the following if you say Jesus is God. Did Jesus send Himself to earth? Was Father God man on this earth? Did Jesus(God) pray to Himself, did Jesus(God) baptize Himself with the Holy Spirit, did Jesus Jesus (God) heal people Himself with His own powers, did Jesus(God) die on the cross as I believe that God cannot die, did Jesus(God) raise Himself from the grave, did Jesus (God) take Himself to heaven, did Jesus(God) take a seat on His own right hand side? If you honestly cannot say yes to any of these questions, then I believe I am right in my belief. How many Gods are there in existance right now?

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? what you don't seem to understand is that the Sabbath is a picture or foreshadowing of Jesus as our rest. We rest in Christ for salvation, we rest in Him for all that we need. Jesus is the epitome of God's rest. He is what the Sabbath day was pointing to. When we enter into Jesus, we are entering the rest God has provided for our hearts. Actually Sabbath Day is a foreshadow when Yeshua comes back to the earn to rule as King for 1000 years of peace (sabbath). Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. From what I understand is that the 1000 years, the millennium, is the seventh 1000 years period, also the symbolical sabbath where Satan will be locked in the pit of darkness where he will not be able to influence anybody on this earth. He will be forced to rest on this Sabbath as he has influenced the world to break the Sabbath. I further believe that Jesus will be in heaven with the saved ones, that were resurrected just before the 1000 year period, during this 1000 year period.

And that is why Christ had to come in the first place. Because none of us do. My point is that you are inconsistent. If the standard of loving God is keeping the commandments, then until you are keeping all 613, until you have visited your perfectionism on your own disobedience of even one of the 613 commandments, you have nothing to say to me about the Sabbath. According to my knowledge which I extracted from the Bible is that there are only Ten Commandments and not 613 of them. I asked the question on this forum if the Bible is a complete document to study from and everybody commented on it to say that is all I need. Where do you get the 613 commands because that does not appear in the Bible I use. I am not inconsistent in my statements as they all linked to each other and can explain everything as I understand it from the Bible. I originally asked that people provide me proof from the Bible but was shot down for such a request, but I get many requests now to prove my point from the Bible, a little bit biast I think.

The problem with that is that the Bible doesn't make that distinction. That is just something you manufactured. Nowhere does the Bible say that some of the law is temporary, but the ten commandments are permanent. There is a definite comparison between the old laws and the Commandments. 1 Cor 7:19 refers to the old laws ie. circumcision and says that it is nothing, which means it has no value, but the upholding the Commandments of God which is now important and has value. The reference to the Commandments include all ten of them. Gal 5:6 confirms that in Jesus the old law of circumcision/non-circumcision has no value, also a comparison between the old laws and the Love commandments which Jesus has taught. In Gal 6:15 you will also note a similar comparison and it mentions that the circumcision, linked to the old laws, has no power but the power lies in Jesus Christ. So my statement was not manufactured, but based on scripture. These texts confirm that the coming of Jesus Christ, has nullified all the old laws and for Him to confirm the laws that God has written on stone is still valid, says it all. The fact that Mat 19:17 confirms that to enter life, you need to keep the Commandments. 2 Joh 1:6 confirms that you still need to keep the Commandments and 1 Tim 6:14 confirms that the Commandments be kept until Jesus comes again. Everything here has been proven by scripture from the Bible. I trust that you will accept this. If you don't, you need to supply me with scripture from the Bible to prove me wrong.

No, the Bible only tells Israel to keep the Sabbath. There is no commandment to keep the Sabbath ever given to a Gentile in the Bible. If you are going to pick and choose what you want to accept in the Bible, you can make an argument that any part is not valid for you. Again, I believe the Bible. And it tells us to obey the Sabbath. Not every part of the Bible is applicable for every person. There are commandments that only apply to men, some only apply women, some only apply to you if you have a son or if you have a daughter. Some commandments only apply if you are living in the land of Israel. Some only apply to you if you are Levitical Priest. Some commandments only apply if you own cattle. You cannot simply argue that all commandments apply to all people for all time. It doesn't work that way. Do you perform sacrifices? Do separate from your spouse once a month according to the laws Niddah? Every passage of Scripture has a sender and a recipient. There are commandments that were given ONLY to Israel and you need to come to grips with that reality. God never told the Church to keep the Sabbath He only told Israel to keep that law. It was not transferred to the Church and you can't prove otherwise. The Ten Commandments are to be kept by all of mankind, irrespective of man or women, son or daughter, Israel or not, Levetical Priest or not or whether you own cattle or not. This applies to mankind all the time. Referring to the old ceremonial laws all the time shows your non-acceptance of Jesus Christ's coming. The Commandments were given to all of mankind and not to Israel only. The sooner you realize that Jesus' crucifixion and blood abolished all the other laws which are not contained in the Ten Commandments, the better for yourself. You will always be caught up between all the laws that did exist which are not applicable anymore.

That is a false dichotomy. The Sabbath as stated in the ten commandments is the same Sabbath mentioned in Exodus 31:13-17. The Sabbath day is mentioned in different contexts. It is a sign between the children of Israel and God. It is unique among the ten commandments in that way. The Sabbath is a sign between the children of Israel under the Mosaic Covenant. There are special annual Sabbaths, but all of them point to Jesus in one fashion or another, just like the Sabbath day in the ten commandments. It shows that you really haven't studied out the significance of the Sabbath day if you can't accept that it foreshadows Jesus. The Sabbath day belongs to the Old Testament economy and pertains to God's relationship with Israel, for ever. For that reason, it is not problematic for us as Christians to see only nine of the ten commandments as applicable to the Church. It isn't a question of it being done away with. It's just that it isn't a part of the NT economy. You are free to keep the Sabbath day if you wish, but you have no business and no right to tell other believers that Sabbath day observance is compulsory upon them. All genuine followers of Jesus should reject that aspect your claims out of hand. The Law of God was from the Beginning and Adam and Eve were not Israelies or any other nationality. The Law was given to mankind. God will not include the Sabbath Commandment in His Law if He did not think it was a valid law and God does not make mistakes. The Bible also teaches that nothing of the Law may be changed or that we must keep man-made laws. So do you offer a daily burnt offering? Do you sacrifice sin offerings? No I do not, as that is not part of the Law of God that had to be kept until Jesus comes again. But you just said that nothing of the law may be changed. Now you say it has been changed. seems like you don't really know what you believe. You go ahead and try to keep the Law. I'm a Christian. I'll just keep putting my trust in Jesus. 'Cause that's what Christians do. Yeshua said do not think I have come to destroy the law and but fulfill. What parts of Yeshua words you don't understand? Certain laws were abolished with the coming of Jesus Christ ie. circumcision, burn offerings etc. that were part of the law of Moses, also written on papyrus. The Ten Commandments given by God and written on stone by God Himself, are still valid in my opinion and still need to be kept. I also do not believe in quoting a name to say that it belonged to either Jesus Christ or God which is not confirmed in the Bible. To quote Yeshua, Jehovah, Yashua, Jahweh etc could all be wrong as there is only one name for God and if people are using any other name that is not in line with God's Name, then I think God will not be to happy about it.

2. Isaiah 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil.” Isa 56:5-7 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant— Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations." 3. Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD. 4. "Therefore do not let anyone judge you … with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ" (Colossians 2:16-17). Hope the references help brother In Christ, Pat ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The only thing I think I'll add as a caution is while we certainly are the temple of God in which the Holy Spirit abides the Spirit of God never contradicts Himself. Therefore what is found in the Scriptures, the Word of God, has also been spoken of by Jesus, the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit, since the Spirit testifies to what Jesus said and in what is found in the word of God. So personally I do believe we need to keep the Sabbath Holy, since it is perpetual - even after His 2nd coming. I know this is a point of disagreement but that is much more recent and for 1900 years the Sabbath was kept by Christians. In Christ, Pat Pat, thanks for this article. It is appreciated. I agree with you that Sabbaths need to be kept Holy and it is still a valid factor today.