SeekingTruth87

oh well then we are in agreement it would seem Ted! haha, I was a bit confused by all the argument, this seems to me a pretty open and shut issue. So yep he was not kept from the evil one, but then im not sure any are really kept from him, it is just to what degree God allows satan to work I think. He allowed satan to have his way with Job but only that he could not physically affect job (his body) but Job in the end while questioning God, got his response when God pretty much reminded Job just how little he really understood and Job repented even though he had nothing left and in our (or I should say My) limited understanding had every reason to be bitter toward God. so I think that at the end of the day it comes down to whether we adhere to satans lies or we chose to hit our knees and repent. Unfortunately for Judas, he chose the first.

ozzy, read Genesis chapter 1 verse 26......"then God said, "Let us make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness...." Who is God speaking with if not JESUS! He made all things through Jesus Christ......The entire old testament is about Jesus! The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.....who is the helper. The term the "trinity" was come up with later on for man to have a term in which to refer to God in His 3 part being, that is the only thing that is not biblical but doesn't need to be its just how we term this. I grew up going to a Mormon church, I have been to the temple for the "baptism of the dead" in which the youth of the church get together and perform ritual baptisms for those who are already passed on. Mormons beliefs are not backed by any archealogical evidence, They claim that the Native Americans are descendant of the laamanites who overcame the Nephites in the great battle at the hill kumorah which is located in New York state, where the "Mormon Headquarters" for lack of better term is located.......this battle that took place was said to have had casualties in the millions......yet there has not been discovered one skeleton, not a spear or a sword or anything which would suggest a great battle. All claims made by the Bible are backed up by Archeaological evidence and new things are still being discovered. Mormons claim that there ancestors the nephites came and settled in south America where there were deer and other animals that have never been native to that region.....also that Christ visited the Americas after His resurrection to minister to the Native Americans yet no record of Christianity or a God coming to visit and preaching the Gospel exists anywhere in America pre- pilgrim age. do yourself a service my friend and research things before you speak on them. I sincerely hope God opens your eyes to the truth until then please do not make attempt to alter others beliefs with lies and ill informed ideas, you may succeed with a less knowledgable Christian and woe to you if you do! Jesus specifically speaks about leading one of these little ones astray, I believe He is not only speaking of children.

teditis.....I am confused on what point you are trying to argue here? If I am not mistaken and I very well may be, it seems that your argument is two fold. 1. Judas was not given to Jesus as a disciple? Of course he was given as a disciple, Judas was fulfilling the cause for which he was pre ordained......just as God hardened the heart of pharaoh to use him for His purpose so Judas was used. Jesus knew what His end would be and which of those He had surrounding Himself would bring it about, He knew full well the scriptures and what must be fulfilled, after all the scriptures speak of HIM! secondly, Jesus is lifting up His disciples that are still with Him and who still desire to serve and be used for Gods glory.......what does Judas going to hell have to do with any of this? Gods ways are higher than our ways, you try to pick apart a truth and rationalize what you do not understand. God wills that no man should perish but that all should come to salvation, of course we know that the great majority of mankind is not going to make it, does that then mean God lost? No! God wants no man to perish but He will NOT force himself upon anyone. He gave us free will that we might chose Him as He has chosen us. Judas could have repented of his sin but he allowed satan to win and allowed his shame to drive him to suicide.

hello my friend! I too much like you have had my struggle with doubts, as I think we all do. I went through the same questions of why is there so much suffering in the world? This is the conclusion I reached and which satisfied my mind, I pray It does the same for you. Think of it this way......God wanted to create a people whom He could love and who would love Him in return, So he began His good work creating us, now you cannot really consider love, love, if there is not a choice to not love. what I mean is, if I made a robot, I programmed it to be obedient to me, to "love" me and do all that I willed, than I could not really believe that it loves me, it only does because I have told it to, I have programmed or forced it to obey me. So God gave adam a choice, he could have all that he laid his eyes on, but that one thing.....that one piece of fruit, this is the choice for adam. to trust God that when He said "adam, I love you. I want what is best for you, this one thing that I have placed in the garden will kill you if you eat of it" when adam allowed himself to doubt God, to believe the lie that God just didn't want adam to know all that God himself knew, adam did not love God in that moment did he? Therefore man fell into sin, and all generations since have been succeptable to its curse. It is not that God wants these terrible things to happen, But He cannot intervene because to do so would make Him a liar, It would take away that free will that He gave to us and the ability to choose to love Him, and to love Him by trusting that all He commands is not just because He wants to be the "boss" its that He commands these things as any good father does, because He knows that these things will lead only to our benefit. He only wants what is best for us and to be a part of our lives, the biggest part. Evil things that happen all over the world are a result of sinful man, there is not enough food in Africa because there is money to be made in the food industry, it is one of the largest industries because we all NEED food to live, so the companies that control and grow it are only interested in the profits that can be made from it, just like anything else in life. Man is greedy and self centered, there is not one good man walking this earth today. that is a bold statement I know, but even those who try to do right fail miserably in many ways. when it really comes down to sacrificing our own comfort or our own 'needs' do we really have the love to abandon our own to give to another. Only Christ was capable of this. Think also of this. If all men/women on this earth would begin walking in relationship with Christ and living out His commands, the greatest of which are "Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" do you think these terrible things would be happening? ABSOLUTELY NOT! we would be giving to one another, making sure the needs of others are met before the needs of ourselves. If im always concerning myself with taking care of you, and you are always concerning yourself with taking care of me....I bet we will both be taken care of pretty well huh? Don't lose hope my brother and don't lose sight of the truth. The truth is God loves you and if it troubles you the hurt you see in the world, purpose in your heart to do something about it! start by praying that your Father will bolden you to go forth and spread His truth and "let your light so shine before men that they will see your good works and give praise to your Father which is in heaven"