OneOfGodsOwn

I showed you a verse in the bible where Jesus specifically states that one is lost. 

I only saw the parts where Jesus warned about hell. Are you sure that Jesus said he will be going to hell for sure?

 

Luke 16:22-24  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

 

The bible repeatedly tells us we have the choice, but we do not know how long we will live to make this choice, now is the time to answer Jesus who calls to us, and most assuredly there are many who miss the narrow road.  

 

That is a parable Jesus told not a factual account of what happened. The fact that you would try to use a parable shows not only how lacking your position is, but also shows what kind of tricks you will use to prove yourself right. I don't think I want to talk with you anymore.

So from your original post, you said not sinning saves you. Not Jesus. Thats not what the bible says.

So you think that turning your back on God is not a sin? Try to think out what you say a little more.

as I said...you are making the choice to keep this going and refusing to accept scripture at it's face value. What God can do is keep his promise and his Word.... His Word says...2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not purposing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.

 

 

Mat 7:21  Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

Mat 7:22  Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23  And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!

 

I do accept scripture though. Everyone keeps quoting warnings at me like they prove me wrong, but they don't. When you quote those parts of the bible you don't show anything wrong with what I said. You show you don't understand. You are in danger of hell, but God helps you.

OneofGodsown, by your own words, you claim you do not study Gods word enough, proving to me that you do not understand the basics of Christianity. Your thread has continued in hopes that you will listen to those who are telling you the truth, yet you now claim you found in scripture that God will not allow anyone to go to hell. That is false. What is true is that if one continues in Christ, as scripture shows us how, they will make it. If one decided not to follow scripture, and gamble that they will be given a free pass, they will be disappointed for scripture tells us, in many many places, that those who do not follow Jesus will perish. What you are saying is a slap in the face of Christ Jesus, who died for our sins, and false teaching.

To me, your belief is in line with that of Universalism, which is a false doctrine and not allowed to be taught here ... it is that bad. I also question why you refuse what people are showing you in scripture. I urge you, and encourage you, to take scripture seriously and not some pipe dream.

I said I found that God hasn't sent anyone to hell. That is true. Twisting my words and claiming they are wrong doesn't help anyone. What I'm saying is not Universalism and it's not a slap in the face. You prove here that you don't understand what I'm saying. I agree that those that don't follow Jesus will perish. I think we also agree that God wants to help people come to know Jesus. The difference is that I think God can do it and you think he will fail. Tell me again what belief is a slap in the face? ownd.

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I can see pretty clear what kind of place this is now. No one understood what I was saying because you all are so stuck in your own personal reading of the bible you can't see 5 feet away. It's no wonder no one could answer my question. None of you could even go so far as to imagine thinking any other way. It's sad and it's sadder still to try to twist what I say to pretend to prove me wrong. It's not like what we say here changes how the world works. I urge you all to pray about this because it's the LORD and what HE says that matters. Good bye and good luck. You won't see me again!

 

When did I say God lies? I don't think you guys get it.

If you sin you will go to hell.

God doesn't want you to got to hell so he will help you.

God doesn't fail to help you so you will get it right when the time comes and not go to hell.

Where is the lie? Maybe you should pray about it like I did if you still don't get it.

 

 

Since everyone has sinned, everyone is destined for hell. 

 

The only thing that saves is faith in Jesus. 

 

How do you think folks get saved? Do you think everyone has that belief, that saving faith, in Jesus?

 

I already answered your question in the quote. Think about it.

it's nice to think that people will not face judgement and hell....but it's simply not true and you know it to be so. Warnings ...just warnings don't make a great deal of sense do they? Don't touch that fire it's hot!!!! - Sure that's a warning...but it does not change the end result of you ignoring the warning ...and sticking your hand in the fire does it? ....This is all common sense..and I personally think you are either playing a game or totally choosing to ignore all the scripture that talks about judgement, along with hell.

So God can't do it? How weak do you think God is? When did I say "God only has to warn people and they will do whatever he says."? I said the bible doesn't say anyone goes to hell. Can you find anyone that we know for sure is in hell? No. You can't. Try to read what I said again and I think you will get it.

When did I say God lies? I don't think you guys get it.
If you sin you will go to hell.
God doesn't want you to got to hell so he will help you.
God doesn't fail to help you so you will get it right when the time comes and not go to hell.
Where is the lie? Maybe you should pray about it like I did if you still don't get it.

Mar 9:43  And if your hand offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to have two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched

Mar 9:44  where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mar 9:45  And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched

Mar 9:46  where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

 

 

 

 

Rev 21:6  And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 21:7  He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Rev 21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

See? This is exactly what I mean. There is nothing but warnings. No one goes there.

 

Guys I figured it out.

I prayed over it again and asked for help and it hit me. A loving God can't allow people to hell. He is the one that's looking out for us and the one that takes care of us. If someone is lost on the wrong path he will fight for them and when God fights for something he gets it. I was looking around on the net and I saw that the bible never even says anyone goes to hell. It's all just warnings. Hell is empty.

I can't wait to tell my atheist friend. Thanks for your help everyone!

 

There are some people who think that there is no hell. That is probably the thing on the internet you were looking at. 

 

But that is not what the bible says.

 

No that's not what I said. I said I found out the bible doesn't say anyone goes to hell. If you know of a place where the bible says a person goes to hell let me know.

Back to God gave us free will. He gave it to us. We can choose heaven or hell.

He can also help us. If your friend thought it was a good idea to go to hell forever wouldn't you help him? Same with God.

 

Guys I figured it out.

I prayed over it again and asked for help and it hit me. A loving God can't allow people to hell. He is the one that's looking out for us and the one that takes care of us. If someone is lost on the wrong path he will fight for them and when God fights for something he gets it. I was looking around on the net and I saw that the bible never even says anyone goes to hell. It's all just warnings. Hell is empty.

I can't wait to tell my atheist friend. Thanks for your help everyone!

 

That would be against everything Jesus taught

 

A loving God is looking out for us and TRYING to save us. But if we slap away the hand of God....there is nothing else left for us but hell

 

Accountability.   Quite out of fashion these days

 

What makes more sense. God tries and fails or you aren't as strong as you think and can't really slap Gods hand away if he feels like holding it out? I don't know about you, but I know if God wants to get something done he does. Saying he tries to save us is the same as saying God HAS saved us.

Guys I figured it out.

I prayed over it again and asked for help and it hit me. A loving God can't allow people to hell. He is the one that's looking out for us and the one that takes care of us. If someone is lost on the wrong path he will fight for them and when God fights for something he gets it. I was looking around on the net and I saw that the bible never even says anyone goes to hell. It's all just warnings. Hell is empty.

I can't wait to tell my atheist friend. Thanks for your help everyone!

 

 

You are making this a lot harder then it needs to be. God did not make hell for the reason of having a place to put those who do not accept Him, those who rejected God, in a sense, created a place for themselves away from God. You will say that only God can create, which is true. This brings us back to what I said earlier about everything having to have an opposite. The opposite of Heaven is Hell.

But it's not like God made hell by mistake. He knew what was going to happen. Why did he make it in such a way to allow people to get into it. What good does it do to allow people into hell?

Here's what I'm hearing: God needed to make hell because people put themselves in hell now that he made it and it's the opposite of heaven. Could that be right? I don't understand.

 

You are over thinking the whole idea of hell and trying to rationalize it. Fact is, hell is there for those who reject God. I don't know how else to explain it to you in easier terms.

 

That isn't my question though. I think it sounds like I'm over thinking it because I'm trying to explain my question in different ways.

Here's how it is in my head: People that reject God go away from him and he allows that. God made it so the only place they can go away from him is hell and they will be destroyed or tortured forever because.........? and this helps him to.............? and if he didn't do this..................? *confusion*

I feel like I don't understand what God wants. Is it vengeance? That isn't the God I know.

You are making this a lot harder then it needs to be. God did not make hell for the reason of having a place to put those who do not accept Him, those who rejected God, in a sense, created a place for themselves away from God. You will say that only God can create, which is true. This brings us back to what I said earlier about everything having to have an opposite. The opposite of Heaven is Hell.

But it's not like God made hell by mistake. He knew what was going to happen. Why did he make it in such a way to allow people to get into it. What good does it do to allow people into hell?

Here's what I'm hearing: God needed to make hell because people put themselves in hell now that he made it and it's the opposite of heaven. Could that be right? I don't understand.

 My question is what would it have mattered if it had been a party town?

Yes. Because it is a place for eternal punishment. Not a place for just being apart from God.

Ok good. I feel like I'm about to get somewhere. Why is hell a place for eternal punishment?

 

Thank you for all your replies! Unfortunately I'm still confused, but it's really making me feel loved and less alone to see all of you sticking it out with me and helping! You guys are the best!

 

The only stupid question is the one not asked.  Saying that, I have to ask if you have ever studied scripture?  Hell is a holding place until the Great White Throne Judgment, where hell and death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, along with Lucifer (Satan), the Beast, the False Prophet, all the fallen angles and anyone who's names are not found in the Book of Life.

Not as much as I should, but I did know that.

 

 

If you knew that, then why is it so hard to understand the why?  Let me try to approach this from another point of view, Love.

 

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

 

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails ...

 

Through pure love, God wants to share His existence with us, knowing how perfect it is. He could of just created perfect beings to share it with, but where would the love be? The creation would be just like robots, never having the choice to be there or not. We, on the other hand, have been given the time to evaluate who God is and make a choice. IT is through this time where His love for us shines by allowing us to grown the way we want, where His love is not forcing us to be anything that we don't want to be. God is willing to let us make mistakes and learn from our mistakes. We have a lifetime to choose, however long each lifetime is.

I do suggest that you spend more time in scripture studying. He is more than willing to show you the answers to your questions and will do a better job than anyone of us could ever do.

 

Saying that hell and the Devil and all that stuff will be thrown in the lake of fire doesn't really tell me why God made hell. I mean I guess he made it to throw it into the lake of fire, but I want to know what good that does. What you are saying here sounds like you are telling me that God had to allow people to be bad to make them free. I'm not questioning that. My question is what good hell does. I can't figure out why all these things could have been done without making people suffer in hell.

 

 

Thing is, God is quite clear in the bible that He has not made a party town. He has made a place that is miserable for everyone there.

I know that. My question is what would it have mattered if it had been a party town?

 

Yeah, that is how I wanted to believe when I was sinning ... "When I die, I will be with all my "friends", and we will have one huge party! Who needs God to have fun?" This is a lie straight from Satan himself, trying to cause the weak and nonbelievers to think death without God will be one big party. In your mind, or on paper if you wish, list all the things God has to offer. That is what it will be like for those who accept Him. Then write the opposite of each of the first list, and you will see what is awaiting those who reject Him.  Why it matters is truth.  If people believed they were going to die and attend a party for the rest of time, which is a lie, many would fall for it and spend eternity without God. 

 

Just to be clear; I know it's not a party town. Are you saying that if hell was a party town then everyone would sin? Like hell is a horrible place because we need the threat of torture to keep us from evil?

Thank you for all your replies! Unfortunately I'm still confused, but it's really making me feel loved and less alone to see all of you sticking it out with me and helping! You guys are the best!
 

 

 

The doctrine of hell as a place of flaming torture for the devil and his angels, and for every lost person who turns up thereafter, cannot be proven from scripture.

The idea of "eternal" flames or "worms that die not" or "smoke that ascends up forever" does not immediately suggest that the material to be burned lasts forever, or that torment lasts forever. It says "the smoke of their torment rises up forever."

Otherwise God cannot or does not destroy the sinner or sin. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil which is sin and sinners who willingly join him. He will not do that until after a judgement, which is only fair.

I'm just starting to realize that not some many people believe in a hell with punishment. I learned that hell was a place of fire and pain. I guess I have even more to learn about, but I'm not sure it changes my question.

What if God made a party town hell that was a pretty awesome place, but still without Gods love? People would still have the choice to be with God or not and they could also choose torture or not. Would it make any difference?

I have to get some sleep. Have a good night guys and thanks for all your help!

 

 

The only stupid question is the one not asked.  Saying that, I have to ask if you have ever studied scripture?  Hell is a holding place until the Great White Throne Judgment, where hell and death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, along with Lucifer (Satan), the Beast, the False Prophet, all the fallen angles and anyone who's names are not found in the Book of Life.

 

Not as much as I should, but I did know that.

As other have said, hell was created for the devil and his angels.

 

Matthew 25:41, "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels".

 

 

So, if it was created for the devil and his angels, why do many people go there, too?  Because the Bible says that children will live with their father.  We are either a child of God or child of the devil.  Here's the distinction between the two.

 

1 John 3:10, "By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."

 

John 8:44-47, "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

 

 

But, thank God that He provided THE way, THE truth and THE life, through His Son so that WHOSOEVER WILL can receive forgiveness and eternal life with God! 

 

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

The choice is ours.  Every person is solely responsible for their own choice... and the consequences of that choice.

I still don't see what this accomplishes. Gods sorts the people that follow him into his house because they deserve a reward and everyone else into the Devils house because that is where he sorts them? Is there really nothing more to it than God wants to put them there so God puts them there?
 

Thing is, God is quite clear in the bible that He has not made a party town. He has made a place that is miserable for everyone there. 

 

I know that. My question is what would it have mattered if it had been a party town?
 

As I read through this thread, I find people are trying very hard to shape the scriptures around their own thoughts, their understanding, and what they want to be true.  I see a lot of "What if..." and "I don't think..." type statements.  Eternity is NOT a What If game and it's NOT dependent on what we believe about it.  It is what God says it is in His Word.  And He's very clear about it. 

 

Granted, people are free to believe whatever they want.  People are allowed to be wrong.  But you can't do that and call it Christianity because it's what YOU want to be true.

 

The very nature of truth is that there can only be ONE truth.  And, if that truth has any bearing on our eternities, which it does, then it behooves us to find out exactly what that truth is, regardless of whether we like it or not, stop arguing about it, and conform to it... and STOP trying to conform the truth to our way of thinking.

 

Hell is eternal.  The Bible is MORE than clear on this issue.  That's why it uses words like "eternal" and "forever and ever" and "everlasting."  How those words can be confusing is a mystery to me.  But just SAY for the sake of argument that hell is not eternal.  What benefit is that to anyone?  Hell is still hell, separation from Jesus.  It's not a party town.  Satan doesn't rule and reign there.  It's still torment beyond comprehension and no one in their right mind wants to experience it for ANY length of time. 

 

Our time is better spent KEEPING OUT of hell altogether, and snatching others off the wide road that's leading them there.  To argue how long hell lasts is an inane waste of time that benefits nothing and nobody.  If you believe hell is temporary, what do you say to unbelievers?  "Don't worry about it.  It won't last forever.  When it's done you'll just vanish altogether from existence."  That's ridiculous.

 

EDITED TO ADD THE WORDS OF  JESUS HIMSELF:  Matthew 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” 

 

Eternal means eternal, not temporary.  Basic English.  The torment of the wicked in hell is as eternal as the joy of the righteous in heaven.

When I ask "What if..." it's because I want to find out why the world is the way it is. I'm not really sure the right way to ask these questions, but I'm trying to hear someone answer "God needed to do it that way because..." or "It's like that because God had too..." or something.
 

If we let our spirits become evil, then evil becomes part of us because we allowed it to happen out of our own free will. God will not accept any evil spirits in His kingdom, whether it be an evil spirit of a man or one of a demon.  The spirit/soul ends up where it belongs according to what we have nurtured it with. Just as a lamb who belongs with lambs and a wolf who belongs with wolves.

It sounds like you are repeating my confusion back to me as a statement. I don't have any doubt left that I asked my question wrong, but I'm still not sure the right way to ask it. Why do the wolves belong with wolves? Does it help God somehow to put things that are like together?
 

The only logical explanation (I personally can think of) as to why God created hell instead of removing us and evil from existence, is that our souls are immortal and cannot be destroyed, so instead they must be placed where they belong.

But God could have made our souls any way he wanted right? And why is hell the place they belong? Like I'm imagining God thinking out his plan and he says to himself "Ok. I'm going to make a soul to fit in the humans and for the good people it will last forever because I want to hang out with them and for the bad people it will last forever because I need a place to put all the bad souls because I made them last forever and that place has to be hell with fire and the Devil now because the people need to with a bad father because they are bad." and my mind just keep running in loops like that.
 

Who said God has to abide by our logic? This is how He has chosen to do it. He is not obligated to explain why.

No one. You are right. I know I'm not ever going to understand a lot of things, but I feel obligated to try. He put that book for us here for a reason right? I feel like I'm doing a really bad job as a Christian because I don't know stuff like this. It seems like everyone else gets it.

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Thanks again for all the replies. Maybe someone out there has an idea what I'm trying to ask in all this rambling. I'm going to try reading everything again so I can see if there's another way I can ask this question and maybe get it right.

The doctrine of hell as a place of flaming torture for the devil and his angels, and for every lost person who turns up thereafter, cannot be proven from scripture.

The idea of "eternal" flames or "worms that die not" or "smoke that ascends up forever" does not immediately suggest that the material to be burned lasts forever, or that torment lasts forever. It says "the smoke of their torment rises up forever."

Otherwise God cannot or does not destroy the sinner or sin. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil which is sin and sinners who willingly join him. He will not do that until after a judgement, which is only fair.

I'm just starting to realize that not some many people believe in a hell with punishment. I learned that hell was a place of fire and pain. I guess I have even more to learn about, but I'm not sure it changes my question.

What if God made a party town hell that was a pretty awesome place, but still without Gods love? People would still have the choice to be with God or not and they could also choose torture or not. Would it make any difference?

I have to get some sleep. Have a good night guys and thanks for all your help!

 

Something is going wrong here. I feel like everyone is answering a different question. Did I ask it wrong or am I missing something?

What if I ask what the purpose of hell is?

Everyone seems to be talking about how people get there. Is the point of hell because people send themselves? I don't understand this.

 

You asked why, and you were given reasons why.  I have a strange feeling you are trying to figure out why God just doesn't remove them from existence once they die instead of eternity without Him, which is hell itself.

 

I'm starting to feel like an idiot here. Everyones telling me the same thing, but I'm just getting more confused. I really have no idea why God would not remove them from existence. It's not like they will be saved.

I must have missed when you told me why. It just sounds to me like everyone is saying what hell is and who goes there, but not why. Can you dumb it down for me? Thanks for sticking with me!

Something is going wrong here. I feel like everyone is answering a different question. Did I ask it wrong or am I missing something?

What if I ask what the purpose of hell is?
Everyone seems to be talking about how people get there. Is the point of hell because people send themselves? I don't understand this.

God created hell for Satan and his angels and those who are not believers in Jesus Christ.God does not send anyone to hell.The unbeliever sends them self to hell.

Hell is made for the devil and his angels....man who refuses God's gift of salvation is cast into outer darkness

I didn't know God made it for angels, but I still don't understand why. Why put people in it? What does putting people or even angels in hell accomplish?

What is a choice if it is not between one or another?  In everything we know of this live, there are opposites.  Hot/cold, up/down, in/out, light/dark, etc.  What would you replace hell with when choosing between heaven or hell?  God or Satan? 

 

As for why not have a second chance, to go through life again and again until we get it right.  What makes you think one would "get it right" if they did not get it right the first time around?  We have a lifetime to consider Gods word.

But I can choose between things that are not opposites too. Like if I want mashed potatoes or tomato soup or if I want the lights totally off or just dim. I mean I see what you are saying that this life is our test so there isn't a point in giving us another chance, but I don't see the point in putting people in hell either.

It's their choice to not be with God... the fire and torment are somewhat allegorical to living a life without God.

How do we know it's allegorical?

It separates the unGodly from God and His Kingdom... it is in essence, life without God.

That is what it is, but why is it that?

Why does God need a pace to put people away from him and why is it full of fire and torment?

Why did God do this....because that is the result of the choice He gives us. Heaven or Hell

My question is why is that the choice. Why not the choice of heaven and another trip to earth or heaven#2 or a time out corner?

What good does hell do?

Not really much more to say. I don't understand the point of hell. Can someone help me?