Joe@actsii

When I was a teenager, I thought I was a Christian. Back then I thought a Christian was anyone that thought Jesus existed. Man was I ignorant.

That is great to hear, and I think that is the way it should be. It is like that in my family, with my parents and siblings. At any one time 1/3 of us are in Trinitarian churches, 1/3 Oneness & 1/3 Backslidden, but we still love each other.

Thunderbyrd, it is good to hear from you. How have you been? I am a little confused about your posts. Did you get the two PM

Thunderbyrd, I am trying to be open to discussion here and assume the best, but you seem to be very much biased against the UPC and closed minded on the matter. I really don

Thunderbyrd, it is good to hear from you. How have you been? I am a little confused about your posts. Did you get the two PM

There Is But One God Deuteronomy 6:4-9 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates. Mark 12:28-34 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. Malachi 2:10 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? Isaiah 44:6-8 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Isaiah 45:2-6, 23 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Isaiah 46:8, 9 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Ephesians 4:5, 6 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 1 Timothy 2:5 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; James 2:19 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Revelation 4:2, 3 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. Jesus Is God Isaiah 7:14 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 9:6 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Micah 5:2 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. John 1:1, 14 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:10 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 8:24, 58, 59 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 14:6-11 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 2 Corinthians 5:19 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 1 Timothy 3:16 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

So Jesus was a manifestation, not a real person? Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. I did not say that He was not a person, I said they are not separate persons. I'm sorry, but that is very vague. Do you believe God the Father is a separate entity from God the Son? I don't believe in God the Son, but I do believe in Jesus Christ, the son of God. I don't believe they are different persons, different manifestations yes, but not different persons.

That is called "modalism" and is a false teaching. I am not a modalist, I am a Monotheist. I belive in one God, and Jesus Christ is that one God. You are a modalist. A modalism is exactly what you just described. Sometimes God is seen as Father, sometimes Son, and sometimes as the Holy Spirit. Modalism is based on how God manifests Himself at different times. You are believing a false teaching. I am trying to not get offended here. Please don't tell me what I am or I am not. Also don't tell me what I believe or don't believe. I try to show the same respect to you. I don't tell you that you are a Trithiest or that you believe in three Gods. Thank you in advance for showing me that respect.

That is called "modalism" and is a false teaching. I am not a modalist, I am a Monotheist. I belive in one God, and Jesus Christ is that one God.

So Jesus was a manifestation, not a real person? Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. I did not say that He was not a person, I said they are not separate persons.

I believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one. They are different manifestations of God, not separate persons.

Thank you very much. I try, but rest assured I can be very carnal, opinionated and insensitive. But the good news is that I am a work in progress. I just need to stop putting my hands into the work of the potter. It doesn

They may all be Oneness Pentecostal, but they are different orginazations or denominations.

Exactly as he did in verse26. Verse 27, as you'll note is a narrative, an external description of the same event, referring once more to God as "elohiym" (the powers) the term which in itself suggests plurality, or more specifically to the topic, trinity. The obstacle that many "oneness" protagonists face is this "I just dont get it" view of Gods trinity> "How can he be one and be three? its just not possible" Yet it is. In fact, it SIMPLY is. God is who he says he is, certainly not bound by our simple understanding of Math and limitation. God indicates that he is one and three and at the risk of sounding arrogant, I have always found it the most natural thing to understand about God, I find it remarkably easy to see and accept. Its just who he is NewPilgrim, let me try to put it a way that will make a little more sense. The way you feel about the Trinity and the Oneness is often the same way we feel. Let me use your own words to show you what I mean. I want you to know that I am not trying to make fun of you, only help you see my view. The obstacle that many "Trinitarian" protagonists face is this "I just don

The statement of Jesus not being the Father is not all together true. Jesus specifically said that "the Father and I are one" and "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father". Jesus was both fully man and fully devine. He was God manifested in flesh. (I Timothy 3:16) He was not God the Son, He was the Son of God in His humanity and He was God the Father in His divinity. Actually it is true. Jesus never claimed to be the Father. He claimed to be one with the Father (one in diety). What you are essentially posing here is modalism. It states that because God is one, He could not possibly exist in 3 persons. So modalism posits that each of the persons of the God-head is not a person, but is a modal expression of God. God appeared as the Son. God functions as the Spirit. This view stresses the unity of God (which is a good thing), but ignores passages that describe members of the trinity interacting with one another(for example the Son praying to the Father). Currently there is only one non-catholic denomination that holds to this position: the United Pentecostal Church. There is also more then one non-catholic denomination the believes and teaches the Oneness. Here are just a few. Links removed by moderator

The statement of Jesus not being the Father is not all together true. Jesus specifically said that "the Father and I are one" and "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father". Jesus was both fully man and fully devine. He was God manifested in flesh. (I Timothy 3:16) He was not God the Son, He was the Son of God in His humanity and He was God the Father in His divinity. Actually it is true. Jesus never claimed to be the Father. He claimed to be one with the Father (one in diety). What you are essentially posing here is modalism. It states that because God is one, He could not possibly exist in 3 persons. So modalism posits that each of the persons of the God-head is not a person, but is a modal expression of God. God appeared as the Son. God functions as the Spirit. This view stresses the unity of God (which is a good thing), but ignores passages that describe members of the trinity interacting with one another(for example the Son praying to the Father). Currently there is only one non-catholic denomination that holds to this position: the United Pentecostal Church. I have already said this in another post, but will say it again. Actually as an Oneness Pentecostal, I can tell you that I am not a modalist. I am a monotheist. There is a difference. I believe in different manifestations of God, not different modes. God can manifest Himself in countless ways at the same time.

Thunderbyrd, I am reposting something I said here awhile ago. Some of what you have post is incorrect, other things are exaggerated quite a bit. Please read the following. Thank you.

No, in fact to get it right, I believe you have to see the trinity for what it is: A man-made doctrine that was not endorsed or taught by the disciples of Jesus. There are many views to the trinity and it is very confusing for most to talk about because it is not scripturally based. God has shown through His Word that He is one. (Galatians 3:20) He never says 3 in 1. This is as simple as it gets: God is the Father of creation. God manifested Himself in flesh. (I Timothy 3:16) The Holy Spirit is God in us. Never does God have to be one or the other. They are all manifestations or roles of the one true God. Remember too, that there is only one God, and one mediator between GOD and man, the man Jesus Christ. When you start to show three "persons" in the Godhead, you eventually will lead to polytheism. Most of the scriptures used by trinitarians actually lead to binitarianism with the Holy Ghost being a sub-member of the three. This is actually an unbiblical view of the relationships within the members of the God-head. It is in a sense a form of modalism. Modalism basically teaches that the members of the Trinity were God appearing in different modes (or expressions of His personality) The problem with this view is that it basically ignores passages where members of the God-head are described as having different personalities and interacting with each other. Actually as an Oneness Pentecostal, I can tell you that I am not a modalist. I am a monotheist. There is a difference. I believe in different manifestations of God, not different modes. God can manifest Himself in countless ways at the same time.

Did they even have college degrees back then?

Athanasian Creed 1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; 2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. 3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; 4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. 5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. 6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. 7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. 8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. 9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. 10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. 11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal. 12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. 13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty. 14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. 15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; 16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. 17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; 18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord. 19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; 20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords. 21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. 22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. 23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. 24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. 25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another. 26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal. 27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. 28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity. 29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. 30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. 31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world. 32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. 33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. 34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. 35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God. 36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. 37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; 38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; 39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty; 40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. 41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies; 42. and shall give account of their own works. 43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. 44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved. Please tell me you didn't do that from memory.

I am bumbing this for Brother Chad. I hope you find it interesting?

Hey Other One, long time, no talk. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV If we believe this, I don

Acts 8:26-39 26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. KJV Here is an example of the Bible clearly saying it is water. To me there is a clear difference when they are talking about water baptism and when it is talking about Holy Spirit baptism. The following scripture is a example of the two different baptisms. The first one is water and the second is the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:8-23 8 And there was great joy in that city. 9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. KJV