JAG**

In other words you have no intention of actually presenting arguments that refute the Opening Post and the other posts in this thread. The thread presents solid Bible verses that clearly say Christendom is NOT going to end up being a "little flock." But you are going to ignore all those verses and evade coming to grips with what they clearly teach. You said the "first thing you posted is false." What exactly did I post that is false? Don't evade and dodge that question. Clearly identify what I posted that is false. Name it.

Have you bothered to even read the Opening Post in this thread? Did you bother to read my other posts in this thread? The Opening Post quoted Luke 12:32 and then presents actual arguments (reasons) to support the thesis that Christendom is NOT going to end up being a "little flock". Don't you want to come to grips with the actual arguments in this thread? Don't you want o write me a post and demonstrate how you get "little flock" out of this verse? Hebrews 11:11-12 By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore."

Thank you for your post. However the basic question of this thread is the question that asks: Is Christendom going to end up being a little flock? Yes or no? The absolute compelling answer is NO, not a little flock, but just the opposite of little flock, its going to end up being a HUGE-ENORMOUS flock of saved people. There are several Bible verses quoted in this thread that make A HUGE-ENORMOUS flock an absolute certainty. So do you agree that the final number of the saved is going to be comparable to the number of stars in the sky and the number of grains of sand on the seashore?

"For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea" (Hab. 2:14)

Here is a magnificent verse that cheers the heart and soul: "For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet." 1 Cor.15: 25 That verse teaches victory (not defeat) for His Christian church..

You are welcome. I did the best I could for you. The software would not allow me to enlarge all of it. I am looking forward to reading your answers to my questions. The basic question of this thread is the question that asks: Is Christendom going to end up being a little flock? Yes or no? The absolute compelling answer is NO, not a little flock, but just the opposite of little flock, its going to end up being a HUGE-ENORMOUS flock of saved people. There are several Bible verses quoted in this thread that make A HUGE-ENORMOUS flock an absolute certainty. Here is one of them: "By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man (Abraham), and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore." Hebrews 11:11-12

I mean by the word Christianized God's simple plan of salvation as taught by all the Bible-believing Protestant Christian churches -- here is one statement of faith: "A definition of the Christian doctrine of salvation would be “The deliverance, by the grace of God, from eternal punishment for sin which is granted to those who accept by faith God’s conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus.” Salvation is available in Jesus alone (John 14:6)" I would add that the saving power is the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit to regenerate the repentant sinner, what the Lord Jesus called being born again in John 3:3. And of course it goes without saying that no is going to be forced to become a Christian.

I did my best to enlarge it for you, but I don't think some of it would enlarge? What do you think this means? "I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore" And what do you think this means? (From Abraham and Sarah) "came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore." After reading Genesis 22:17-18 and Hebrews 11:11-12, do you think the Bible teaches that only a few people will be saved? Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18 God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed." (1) stars (2) grains of sand on the seashore (3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.) Compare: Hebrews 11:11-12 By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore."

Your comment is incorrect spin and nothing more. The person I invited to leave obviously had no intention of actually reading my posts in this thread. He said he had read only the first paragraph. He then launched an attack on my thread (which he had not read), an attack that was incorrect nonsense. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of his post.

So what do you think the following means? Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18 God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed." (1) stars (2) grains of sand on the seashore (3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.) Compare Galatians 3:6-9 "So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”Understand, then, that those who have faith are the sons of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith." Missmuffet, do you think Genesis 22:17-18 with Galatians 3:6-9 teaches that only a few people will be saved?

I am looking for serious responses from people who will take the time to actually read what I have written in this thread and come to grips with my points. I am not interested in responding to nonsense and little snippy remarks and cartoon emoticons that are roughly at the third grade level of maturity. For example why don't you write me a post and tell me what you think about Genesis 22:17-18 and Hebrews 11:11-12 (both are down below). What do you think this means? "I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore" And what do you think this means? (From Abraham and Sarah) "came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore." After reading Genesis 22:17-18 and Hebrews 11:11-12, do you think the Bible teaches that only a few people will be saved? Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18 God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed." (1) stars (2) grains of sand on the seashore (3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.) Compare: Hebrews 11:11-12 By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore."

We can know for certain that the "few" of Matthew 7 was describing the situation that existed only in the first century at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words. How can we know this for certain? Simple. All you have to do is merely read just one New Testament verse, namely Revelation 7: 9-12 "After this I looked and saw a multitude to large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever! Amen.” Note the phrase that says, "I saw a multitude to large to count." Note the phrase that says, "from every nation and tribe and tongue." Clearly Christendom is going to be huge-enormous in numbers before human history comes to an end. Moreover, there are several other verses that say the final number of the saved is going to number in the trillions. Those verses are in this thread. All you have to do is read my posts in this thread. You obviously did not take the time to read my posts in this thread before you made your response. This entire thread certainly and absolutely refutes the notion that only a few people will be saved. You will need to actually present arguments (reasons) explaining how "I saw a multitude to large to count" really means I saw just a few people. Then present actual arguments refuting all the other verses that you can easily find in my posts on page 1 and 2 of this thread.

By the way, you don't have to read all that I wrote, just read the Opening Post and tell me if you agree that Christendom is NOT now a little flock? And do you agree that the number of the saved will NOT be just a few? You're interested in Christian eschatology. Take the time to read something that is a cheerful positive upward mobile. Are you not tired of all the gloom and doom in Christian eschatology these days? I actually found the following on a website: "It appears that only a small number of people are born again or being saved today . . . Its possible that there may be less than one hundred born again people alive in the world today." (That was from a website called "true Christianity." ) That's absurd nonsense.

"All that" is well worth you giving it a slow careful read. Every word of it is a cheerful upbeat positive note of Christian victory about the certain coming magnificent worldwide success of Christendom --- and especially since you say in your siggy that one of your interests is Christian eschatology.

I'm looking forward to reading all of the responses from the very worthy members of Worthy Forums. God bless. JAG

Here is one I have never read, but many say it is a magnificent work: Its titled Victory In Jesus: The Bright Hope Of Postmillennialism by Greg L. Bahnsen Here is what one reviewer said about his work: Start quote: Greg Bahnsen was studied enough to debate philosophy. But this book, taken from lectures, is in such simple and clear language that you could use it in your youth group. Furthermore, it is packed with several valuable studies. Not only does he deal deftly with the real differences among Premillennial, Amillennial, and Postmillennial interpretations and their implications for practical living; the late, great Bahnsen gives an astoundingly good overview of the book of Revelation in the first chapter - the best broadbrush picture I've ever read. There is also a very important nugget - a goldmine, really - in the final chapters' study about Satan and the various names/titles given to this fallen creature. That alone would merit repackaging the book with a title about a study of Satan and his defeat by the Lord Jesus Christ___John Bunyan (comment found in the comment section at the link below ` Link to buy the book from amazon https://www.amazon.com/Victory-Jesus...ustomerReviews

Here is the granddaddy of all the great works on future Christian optimism. Its Dr. Loraine Boettner's magnificent work titled The Millennium Says one reviewer: Start quote: This is the first book I have read on eschatology, and it did not disappoint. Boettner is a postmillenialist who thoroughly examines all three views on the millenium: postmillenialism, amillenialism, and premillenialism (including dispensationalism). I grew up in a premillenial tradition and had always been taught two contradictory views concerning the end times: 1) the Rapture could occur at any time without warning or sign, and 2) there are many signs around us (e.g. Jews moving back to Pallestine) signifying that the end is near. Boettner does a great job destroying both of these myths by using the scriptures exhaustively. The picture he paints is that of a church victorious on the earth with Christ as its leader.___David (no last name given) Comment can be found in the comment section at the link below. Link (to buy the book from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Millennium-Lo...S8V7H5E432RPN0

More Christian optimism: An Eschatology Of Victory by Marcellus Kik. Start quote: In this day and age of the End Times Industry where American Christians compare their plight in regards to morality, to the deepest level, and earthquake, and hurricanes as evidence of the Last Days, this book provides the proper historical context for the eschatological passages in the Bible. Kik uses scripture to interpret scripture and properly reveals the true nature of the the Messianic Kingdom, in terms of its purpose and scope. ` When this is done all the sensationalism of dispensationalism, antichrist, one world government, chip in the hand and the forehead all become what they really are, "Silly conjectures with no basis in scripture". ` This book is going to offend diehard dispensationalists in that it totally refutes their eschatological view. It also offends the amillenialists, but truth is obligated to only offend those that are at variance with it.___McKeon Gratian (end quote) Note: This quote found in the comment section at the link below Link to buy the book from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Eschatology-V...ogy+of+victory

More Christian optimism: Postmillennialism: An Eschatology Of Hope by Keith A. Mathison Here is what one reviewer said about Mathison's work: "In Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope, Keith Mathison looks to make a case for an optimistic eschatology, where the Great Commission will be successfully accomplished and all nations will be successfully discipled to Christianity. In carrying out this end, Mathison surveys the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, and notes those texts where the hope of the world and the goal of the family of Abraham is the conversion of all the nations- not merely a godly remnant from the nations. In this project, Mathison is successful. The Bible is so full of passages which promise the conversion of all the nations that it's not a particularly difficult task. The nations, as nations, will stream to Zion and learn the law. The families of the Earth- all of them- will be blessed by the Abrahamic covenant."___Thomas C. Hamiltion (Found in the comment section st the link below.) Link: (To buy the book from amazon) https://www.amazon.com/Postmillennia...tology+of+hope

To those who may appreciate some Christian optimism. I highly recommend Dr. Kenneth Gentry's magnificent work He Shall Have Dominion: A Postmillennial Eschatology (Third Edition: Revised and Expanded.) ` "In this greatly expanded and wholly updated version of Dr. Gentry s classic study of postmillennialism, you will sense anew the powerful message of Psalm 72 that Christ shall have dominion from sea to sea. You will learn that God's word promises that the whole earth will be filled with his glory so that all nations will call him blessed - before Christ returns. Many evangelicals today are concerned about those being Left Behind on this Late Great Planet Earth as it collapses into absolute chaos. But the postmillennialist optimistically believes that He Shall Have Dominion through the Spirit-blessed labor of his blood-bought Church by its faithful obedience to the New Covenant. In this book you will find the whole biblical rationale for the postmillennial hope, from its incipient beginning in Genesis to its glorious conclusion in Revelation. Your faith will be re-invigorated as you begin to recognize that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16) and that our Lord Jesus really meant it when he commanded us to go and make disciples of all the nations (Matt 28:18-20)." Link: https://www.amazon.com/Shall-Have-Do...al+eschatology

The yeast of the gospel will eventually make disciples of all the nations. "He told them still another parable: The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into three measures of flour, until all of it was leavened. Matthew 13:33 * The subject is the Kingdom Of Heaven * The yeast is the gospel. * The three measures of flour is the entire world. * The final result is that "all of it was leavened" that is the entire world will be Christianized.

To those who are looking for Christian optimism, I offer this: The Lord Jesus' Great Commission will be carried out successfully. The entire world will be Christianized as human history moves forward as mega millenniums unfold on the time line of Church history. At the end of Matthew's gospel in chapter 28 the Lord Jesus gave His disciples a command to go and make disciples of all the nations teaching them to obey everything He had commanded His apostles to put into practice. The POWER behind the certain success of Jesus' Great Commission to His apostles was His statement that "all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me." He then said "therefore" go and make disciples of all the nations. THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. Nothing can stop that. All the nations eventually are going to become disciples of the Lord Jesus. Again why? Because ALL AUTHORITY in both heaven and earth has been given to the Lord Jesus THEREFORE go and make disciples of all the nations of the earth. The issue is not will this happen. That's already a settled issue. The only issue is how long will it take. Its going to take a long time. The human race is now in its infancy. We are only a few weeks old, historically speaking. We have mega millenniums yet ahead for the Christian Church to successfully carry out the Great Commission. Question: Are you reader, willing to hold and teach that the Lord Jesus will FAIL? You only have two choices here: (1) All authority in Heaven and Earth has been given to the Lord Jesus, THEREFORE He said go into all the world and make disciples of all the nations. This will actually happen. The task and command that Jesus gave to His church here will be successfully carried out before history comes to an end. (2) Jesus will FAIL in His plan to have all the nations discipled. Even though he has now been given all authority in Heaven and Earth, He will still FAIL and all nations will NOT be made His disciples. The Lord's Great Commission To His Christian Church: Meanwhile, the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him, but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go andmake disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. Matthew 28:16-20 Here in revelation 7: 9-12 we have the fulfillment of the Great Commission of Matthew 28. The Fulfillment Of The Lord's Great Commission To His Christian Church: After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb! And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, saying, Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever! Amen. You must choose either (1) or (2). There is no other choice. Jesus either FAILS or He is SUCCESSFUL.

But what about the Bible verse that says this: Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. Common sense compels the sane interpreter to give Matthew 7:13-14 an interpretation that does not deny reality. You can interpret Matthew 7:13-14 as having application only to the people of that time period. If you apply Matthew 7:13-14 to all of human history you end up with an interpretation that contradicts other clear Bible verses (see the OP and my other posts in this thread.) To apply Matthew 7:13-14 to the entire human race and to all of human history makes God a moral monster, for that would mean that He started a program knowing that the vast majority of His creatures were going to spend an eternity screaming in eternal Hell. What kind of a God would do a thing like that? Its absurd to suggest that there are only a few true Christians in the world today. There are over 16,000,000 Southern Baptist in the United States, that number alone does not harmonize with the concept of only a few are saved. And there is no reason for you to doubt the profession of faith of the world's 2.3 billion Christians anymore than it is for them to doubt your profession of faith. In another vein, its a good rule of interpretation that says you never interpret a verse of Scripture in a way that contradicts another clear verse of Scripture, and to interpret Matthew 7:13-14 in such a way that flatly contradicts "I saw a multitude to large to count from every nation and tribe and people and tongue" is not a good thing to do. Its not practicing sound hermeneutics. I asked the web "How many Protestants are in the world today?" and I got this response: There are more than 900 million Protestants worldwide, among approximately 2.4 billion Christians. In 2010, a total of more than 800 million included 300 million in Sub-Saharan Africa, 260 million in the Americas, 140 million in Asia-Pacific region, 100 million in Europe and 2 million in Middle East-North Africa." I have no reason to doubt the salvation of these 900 million of my fellow Protestants. And 900,000,000 Protestant Christians in the world today is not a "few" that found it. Its simply bad interpretation to apply "only a few find it" to all of human history. Doing that reduces Christianity to absurdity.

By the way, the Lord Jesus' statement in Matthew 16:18 . . . . ` "Upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it", . . . . when read in light of all the verses in the OP and my other posts, is very encouraging because we are compelled to conclude that His "my church" is going to be huge-enormous in numbers. And we would naturally expect this from the God who NEVER does anything on a small dinky scale (for example just look up at the number of stars in the sky --- just look at the size of His Universe.) Note on the phrase "this rock": (1) Did the Lord Jesus mean by that: (1) Himself ie the church will be built on Christ the Rock (2) Peter himself (3) Peter as representing Apostolic Authority I would speculate and select (1) and (3). For certain (1) and (3) is the reality. The Christian Church is indeed built upon the Rock of the Lord Jesus and it is indeed built upon Christ's personally chosen apostles (Apostolic Authority.) But the point of this post is that His "my Church" is going to be huge-enormous in the final numbers of the saved.

And how do you get "few" out of this NEW TESTAMENT statement? Hebrews 11:11-12 By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead, me descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore."