JAG**

Thank you Michael and thanks for your comments which made a positive contribution to the thread. JAG

Regarding "blame": If we do not blame mankind for all of it, then who do we blame? What are their names? In the Bible there is: {1} God {Father , Son, Holy Spirit} {2} Good Angles {3} Evil Fallen Angles. {4} Mankind The title of this thread asks "Is God Responsible For The Evil In The World? No He Is Not." Exactly WHO gets the "blame" for all this below? Looting of stores Burning police cars Rioting in the streets Throwing bricks through store front windows Shooting police officers Of these 4 below which ones are to "blame" for all that up there? {1} God {Father , Son, Holy Spirit} {2} Good Angles {3} Evil Fallen Angles. {4} Mankind _________ JAG Scot me up Beamy. `

Ronald, Thank you for your comments. You said "Isaiah 45:7 disagrees with you."__Ronald Bruno Isaiah 45:7 does not disagree with my Opening Post. My Opening Post does not disagree with Isaiah 45:7 Both Isaiah 45:7 AND my Opening Post are true. I wrote the following in my Opening Post. Isaiah 45:7 does not disagree with this below: JAG Wrote: Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would. God created a perfect world. God created perfect human beings. God gave human beings a Free Will. Human beings used their Free Will to choose to do evil. Human beings choosing to do evil is the reason we have natural disasters and evil in the world-- and the reason we have The Curse upon the Earth.:___JAG I DO get the Big Picture. Genesis {and the New Testament} does in fact clearly teach what I just wrote up-post. _____________ You said in your post "This does not say that man is not responsible for sin."___Ronald Bruno I feel sure you would fully agree that THE JUDGE below made a serious mistake and that HENRY was incorrect. My Opening Post seeks to put the blame on "HENRY" and remove the blame from God. As you probably know there are large numbers of atheists on the Internet that blame the God-That-Does-Not-Exist for all the evil in the world and THEY QUOTE ISAIAH 45:7 all the time in threads as a proof text that the God of the Bible is evil for creating evil. HENRY AND THE JUDGE: HENRY: Yes Your Honor it is true that I robbed that bank and killed those 3 bank tellers, however Your Honor I am NOT primarily responsible for robbing that bank and killing those 3 bank tellers because Ronald Bruno told me about Isaiah 45:7 that says it is God that created all things and so Your Honor it is God that is primarily responsible and not me. Your Honor, Ronald Bruno reports that in Isaiah 45:7 the New King James Version says that "I the LORD . . .create evil" so Your Honor me and my Free Will is NOT primarily responsible for me robbing that bank and killing those 3 bank tellers. THE JUDGE: Thank you so much for explaining all that to me. I fully understand and case dismissed. HENRY: Thank you so much Your Honor, for dismissing my case. I am glad I do not have to go to jail. ______________ Best JAG

`` JAG Writes: Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would. God created a perfect world. God created perfect human beings. God gave human beings a Free Will. Human beings used their Free Will to choose to do evil. Human beings choosing to do evil is the reason we have natural disasters and evil in the world-- and the reason we have The Curse upon the Earth. Many atheists blame the God of the Bible for all the natural disasters and all the evil in the world. You may ask, "How can atheists blame the God of the Bible for evil when atheists do not believe that God exists? Answer: They postulate that "if God does exist" then He is evil because the Bible presents God as being Omnipotent {all powerful} and therefore He could have created a world without any evil if He had wanted to do that. He did not want to do that, therefore He is evil. So? So there are many atheists who have said that the God-That-Does-Not-Exist is responsible for all the evil in the world. What does that mean? Well again atheists do not believe that God exists but, for the sake of argument, they say that if the God of the Bible does exist, then He is responsible for all the evil in the world because He is Omnipotent and could have designed a world without evil. I just recently read a lengthy thread on another forum where an atheist and many of his fellow atheists blamed the God of the Bible for inflicting the COVID-19 virus on humanity. Yes, sure! Again, I know that atheists do NOT believe that God exists. But they, for arguments sake, argue against the God of the Bible and say that "if He does exist", He would be evil because He could prevent evil, but chooses NOT to prevent it. Has anyone read the books written by the infamous "New Atheists"? There are 4 of them. Their names are Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, and the late Christopher Hitchens. The atheist Richard Dawkins is an especially vile talking atheist. Here is what the atheist Richard Dawkins said about the God of the Bible: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion Again, the "New Atheists" do not believe that God actually exists. But they say that "if He does exist" He is evil as I explained above. I keep repeating this because a large number of Internet posters endlessly state that "Atheists do not believe that God exists" as if we did not know that. We do know that. Back to what some atheists have said about the God-That-Does-Not-Exist . . . They have specifically and clearly and emphatically declared that the God of the Bible IS responsible for the evil in the world. Stephen Fry, an atheist, has a video on You Tube, He was being interviewed and he was asked, 'What would you say to God when you die and find out that Christianity is actually true, and you are standing at the pearly gates? Stephen Fry replied that he was going to ask God "Why he put bone cancer in children? God, What is that all about?", replied Stephen Fry. Stephen Fry's video went viral and has become infamous on the Internet. You see it quoted and linked to quite often. ____________ Back to The Problem Of Evil . . . Centuries ago Epicurus formulated The Problem Of Evil like this: Sayeth Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not Omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”__Epicurus The Christian analytical philosopher Alvin Plantinga has a very good rebuttal to these "New Atheists" and to Epicurus. Sayeth the Christian Alvin Plantinga: {You will need to "deep read" what Plantinga says below and spend some time studying and seriously analyzing what Plantinga has written} As Plantinga summarized his Free Will defense:[14] "A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_...urther_details End quote. ___________ The "New Atheists" do not correctly understand the Biblical doctrine of the Omnipotence {all-powerful} of God. Epicurus did not correctly understand the Christian doctrine of God's Omnipotence. God's Omnipotence does not mean that He can do anything. God cannot create square circles. God cannot make 2 + 2 = 7. God cannot give humans the Free Will to do evil and at the same time prevent humans from doing evil. The fatal flaw in Epicurus is he misunderstood the Christian doctrine of the Omnipotence of the God of the Bible. Conclusion: Mankind, NOT God, is the cause of sin, evil, and natural disasters in the world. JAG `

`` JAG Writes: The Canaanites Were Not Salvageable --- They Had Sunk To The Very Bottom On The Immorality Scale: {A} Cold Blooded Murder. {B} Incest With Close Family Members. {C} Murdered Their Own Children {Molech}. {D} Blood-Lust Gory Murder Religious Ceremonies. {E} Sex With Animals. God's purpose was to get rid of all that up there and replace it with the religion of the nation of Israel which prohibited all such vile sins. "The Lord said to Moses, speak to the Israelites and say to them, You must not do as they do in the land of Canaan where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices." Leviticus 18:1-3 "Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways {listed in Leviticus 18:6-23} because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled." "For all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you" Leviticus 18:27 ". . . the detestable customs that were practiced before you came" Leviticus 18:30 So what were they doing that was so bad? Here is the list of the sins of the Canaanites: (1) They were having sex with their close family members. Leviticus 18:6 (2) They were having sex with their mothers. Leviticus 18:7 (3) They were having sex with their sisters. Leviticus 18:9 (4) They were having sex with their grandchildren. Leviticus 18:10 (5) They were having sex with their aunts. Leviticus 18:14 (6) They were having sex with their daughters-in law. Leviticus 18:15 (7) They were having sex with their brother's wife. Leviticus 18:16 ( 8 ] They were having sex with their neighbor's wife.. Leviticus 18:20 (9) They were having homosexual sex. Leviticus 18:22 (10) They were giving their children to be murdered in sacrifice to Molech. Leviticus 18:21 Now The Canaanites Had Sunk To Bestiality. (11) The Canaanites were having sex with animals. Leviticus 18:23 (12) Their women were specifically mentioned as having sex with animals. Leviticus 18:23 There was a total of 6 tribes that were practicing (1) through (12) up there: Hittites Amorites Canaanites Perizzites Hivites Jebusites All 6 tribes are generally referred to as the "Canaanites." Deuteronomy 20:16-18 The command of God to the Israelites in Deuteronomy 20:16 "do not leave alive anything that breathes" was applicable only to these 6 tribes that were practicing (1) through (12) listed up-post. All the other many tribes and cities that were living at a distance from the Canaanites were to be offered an opportunity to make peace with the Israelites and were never the object of total annihilation as was the 6 totally corrupt Canaanite nations. See Deuteronomy 20:11 and Deuteronomy 20:15 on the offer of peace to be made to the nations living at a distance from the Canaanites. The reason for the offer of peace was that these nations living at a distance from the Canaanites were morally salvageable and they were accordingly shown mercy if they would agree to make peace with the Israelites. Repeat . . . The Canaanites Were Not Salvageable --- They Had Sunk To The Very Bottom Of The Immorality Scale: {A} Cold Blooded Murder. {B} Incest With Close Family Members. {C} Murdered Their Own Children {Molech} {D} Blood-Lust Gory Murder Religious Ceremonies. {E} Sex With Animals. "washed her hands in human gore" . . . . Start quote. Consider the bloodlust and violence of the Canaanite deity Anath, the patroness of both war and sex. The late archaeologist William Albright describes the Canaanite deity Anath's massacre in the following gory scene. The blood was so deep that she waded in it up to her knees -- nay, up to her neck. Under her feet were human heads, above her human hands flew like locusts. In her sensuous delight she decorated herself with suspended (human) heads while she attached (human) hands to her girdle. Her joy at the butchery is described in even more sadistic language. Her liver swelled with laughter, her heart was full of joy, the liver of Anath (was full of) exultation. Afterwards Anath was satisfied and washed her hands in human gore before proceeding to other occupations. End quote. The above quote regarding Anath is from Is God A Moral Monster: Making Sense Of The Old Testament God, by Paul Copan, page 159 So? So the following seems very reasonable . . . . "However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them-the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites-as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. __Deuteronomy 20:16-18 . . . . . in light of: The Sins Of The Canaanites: Blood-Lust, Murder, Incest, Sex With Animals. JAG

Josheb, all those were a great blessing to read. That is a magnificent collection of Bible verses. "Let me start with a fairly simple truth: There has never been a moment in what we call "time" when the one by whom, through whom, and for whom the universe was created did not sit as ruler over all. "___From the post above. Amen to that! JAG ``

Got it. Many thanks. I really enjoyed reading that. Gotta go. Bedtime for me here. Back later , , , PS That small blue digital ink plus that wide-wide posting block kills my eyes. I can't stand it. So I shorten the block and black the ink and increase the font. They got a name for that; They call it "aging." , , LOL, , , I'll read that again tomorrow -- your post. JAG

Y'welcome. I got it. Least you know I'm reading your posts carefully /Big Grin JAG

Josheb, could you help me out with that one? Luke 1:19 says: "The angel said to him, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news." What is your point? JAG

Josheb, thanks for your comments up there. I can understand your points. My view of Internet threads is they are impossible to keep on topic without severe sustained moderation which would most likely kill the thread. Thread-drift is just a part of life on the Internet. But I DO understand your concerns. Thanks for your kind words regarding my Opening Post. I'm glad you appreciate it. One of my purposes in this thread is to stimulate a general interest in Postmillennialism and sub-topics like the "Beast" and John's "antichrists" are very popular in current Christian eschatological literature --- and I was hoping to get at least one {1} person interested in doing some personal study on the Postmillennial Eschatological System. People are interested in difference aspects of the End Times issue and the "Beast" is at the top of the their list. Then cometh john's "antichrists." I think the "Beast" and John's "antichrists" have died a natural death in this thread anyway , , ,/grin . . . You made some very interesting points up there. I will have to give them some thought before I can make even 1/2 way intelligent comments on them. I encourage you to stay on the topics you mentioned and I am pulling for your success in getting all your points across. This thread may, or may not, be near the end? To tell you the truth, I am surprised it has lasted this far and I give YOU the credit for that. Regarding "Reconstruction" -- I know just a little bit about Rushdooney but I have never taken any of that seriously. . I don't know if you are referring to Rushdoony or not? Good post up there. I will read it again later. Best JAG

I hear ya. My view: We gotta have Fun on the Internet. I have learned over the years to not allow words on a screen to "get to me." I don't care what they post, I don't allow mere words on a monitor screen to ever "get to me" emotionally. And I post on Political Forums in the Religion Departments where the atheists love to hang out and insult Christians and mock and ridicule them. I respond to their posted insults with positive helpful quotes {I love to post Tolkien quotes} and I post Bible verses too. And other cheerful messages under their nasty insults as if they had never even posted that stuff. The good news is I get to share the gospel with them and I get to put John 3:16 in front of them --- in one form or another. And believe it or not, most often the atheists will end up apologizing for their ugly nasty hateful talk and cut it out -- at lest for awhile anyway , , LOL. I know one thing the atheists on the Internet At Large are one unhappy bunch of people. They HATE and despise the God-That-Does-Not-Exist and they blame Him for all the evil in the world. Anyway I put a lot of good stuff in front of them --- mainly Bible verses and some heavy theological stuff too. I am trying to turn the atheists into good Baptists who are also Postmillennialists. LOL /just kidding. , , , Edit: Well on second thought maybe NOT kidding. Take Care. God Bless. JAG

"the juice seems to be in the controversy"___Alive Ah that is so true. I have seen Forums die from lack of controversy. Boredom sets in. Posters can give each other "Yeah That's" for just so long before they start to "doze off" , , , LOL , , , I saw a once active Christian Forum ban the discussion of ALL Politics AND the Eternal Security issue and then went on to ban ANY debate. Seriously! They banned ALL debate --- and went to positive discussion only. They did this in order to reduce the work load of the Mods who were having to work very hard to keep the hostility from "running wild" --- and they succeeded but the Forum died from lack of interest by which I mean from lack of controversy. /Big Grin Thanks for your comments. Take care. JAG

``Alive, Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. Much appreciated. I read all you wrote carefully. Agreed. Good points, all. JAG ``

Alive, I read all that carefully. Agreed. So true. Say, I have a question: Who are the Mods here at Worthy? I looked on the Home Page but could not find the names of the Mods. Are you a Mod? With regard to closing this thread you said, "Because I don't think its called for...besides folks from various positions are having an opportunity to express themselves."___Alive Why do you think some here at Worthy want to shut down Free Speech? It is not even arguable that these 4 are orthodox Bible believing Christian beliefs. Postmillennialism Amillennialism Premillennialism Dispensationalism Its puzzling that some would want to shut down Free Speech and shut down personal freedoms to present orthodox Eschatological views. /just asking JAG

Thank you for your comments. My view is that Postmillennialism is in perfect harmony with "Love rejoices with the truth" in Romans 13:11 My view is that Postmillennialism is not a theory but factually true. My view is that there are no logical fallacies in Postmillennialism. I feel sure you are NOT a hater. I encourage you to continue to make your voice heard. I believe you are 100% honest and sincere in your beliefs. Best. JAG ``

Alive, you make interesting and helpful points. The following is NOT to detract from anything you said up there, but to make some positive constructive contributions. It is true that what we post in threads on the Internet will most likely end up in the Cyber Graveyard Of Dead And Buried Threads -- never to be seen again , , , at some point in time. Nonetheless , , , , My view is that we "Keyboard Peckers" sitting at our computers pecking away on our keyboards DO make at least some measurable amount of contribution to the lives of at least some human beings who read what we write. If we write "good stuff." And you do. _________________ i like to start with the number one {1} and make the point that if what I write and post can be a good positive constructive influence in the life of just one {1} human being, then its well worth the effort. I betcha you'd agree with that. Moreover, I betcha ya you already know all this stuff I'm writing in this post. But it don't hurt to re-emphasize it. ________________ We never know who is reading our posts. And we never know who or how many are being blessed by what we write. I personally will keep on posting and writing if I can make a positive constructive contribution to the life of just one human being in some measurable amount, even if only this 0.001 Yah. I'll do it for only this much 0.001 _____________ {I betcha you didn't know I was reading your posts.} So we never know who we are helping. Its just impossible for us to know. How so? Because of the Internet Lurkers for one thing. If you believe the member counts given usually at the bottom of Forum's home page then you usually see the number of members logged in and the number of "guests" that could be non-members or not-logged-in members. Some of them are Internet Lurkers. They could be reading your posts and could be "being helped" by what they are reading. You just wrote up there: "The Lord is still God and we are His sons by the awesome power of the work of Jesus Christ and His never ending Love, Grace and Mercy toward us and those who will be gathered in."___Alive That was a blessing to read. I liked reading that. Good. That was "a good." _______________ You're absolutely right in what you said about end time discussions. My view is that there are a lot of Christians that are deeply emotionally involved with the end times and have a very difficult time being "disinterested" in their discussions. The term "disinterested" is often used to mean that the debater has the ability to keep his/her emotions totally out of the discussion and discuss the subject strictly from an intellectual academic point of view. I have NEVER seen a lengthy thread on the Internet At Large on the subject of Christian Eschatology where there was an absence of ad hominem and for that matter, as I said up thread, huge Data Dumps and huge Screen Shots, and Huge Pictures and huge Fonts, etc. Nonetheless, there can be many helpful truths shared in these discussions on Christian Eschatology. ___________ One last point. My view is that all my brothers and sisters in the Lord who hold views that are either , , , ■ Postmillennialism ■ Amillennialism ■ Premillennialism ■ Dispensationalism , , , , are all honest and sincere in what they believe and are trying as best they can, where they are right now, to get to the truth and honor the Lord. Best JAG

Josheb, My view is that you are making valuable contributions to Postmillennialism and to Christendom and to the thread-readers. Discussions of Christian Eschatology in threads on the Internet At Large almost always have ad hominem and huge enormous Data Dumps and huge enormous Screen Shots of charts and pictures and often huge enormous fonts which are interpreted by some posters to be shouting. _________ Back to the ad hominem. I had one Christian brother on another forum who told me the following, he said, "I learned my name-calling from Jesus." And then he quoted Matthew 23 where the Lord Jesus called those Pharisees and Teachers Of The Law "snakes and vipers." How do you like that for "proof-texting"? Never mind that the Pharisees and Teachers Of The Law tried to murder the Lord Jesus on several occasions and finally did do that before they were finished. And never mind that the people he was calling very bad names were his Christian brothers in Christ and were NOT the Pharisees and Teachers Of The Law. So what? He had his "proof text" and that was enough for him! My answer to all that up there is this: The core principle of Christianity is Love. We can see the Love Principle made clear in First Corinthians chapter 13. {1} Love is patient. {2} Love is kind. {3} Love does not envy. {4} Love does not boast. {5} Love is not proud. {6} Love is not rude. {7} Love is not self-seeking. {8} Love is not easily angered. {9} Love keeps no record of wrongs. {10} Love does not delight in evil. {11} Love rejoices with the truth. {12} Love always protects. {13} Love always trusts. {14} Love always hopes. {15} Love always perseveres. {16} Love never fails. {17} These three remain: faith, hope, and love. {18} But the greatest of these is Love. JAG

John's "antichrists" , , , , The subject of "antichrist" is of great interest in Christian eschatological literature. I came across this below and thought I would share it with the thread. The Postmillennial view is that there is no future "antichrist" that will appear in history. ________ There are no clear BIBLE-VERSES that connect John's antichrists with: Daniel 7 2 Thess. 2 Revelation Any connection made is 100% pure interpretative speculation. What is needed in order to establish a future antichrist is a clear BIBLE-VERSE that actually clearly states the connection with John's antichrists to Daniel 7 and/or 2 Thess 2 and/or Revelation. But there is not even one {1} clear Bible verse that states that connection. Not even one. ________________ Three Observations Regarding John's "antichrists" , , , , Dr. Benjamin B. Warfield, one of Christendom's most accomplished and distinguished theologians, provided 3 helpful insights on John's antichrists. {1} John takes his antichrists out of the future and puts them into the present time of the 1st Century. See below where 1 John 2:18 1 John 2:22 1 John 4:3 2 John 7 , , , are quoted. ______________ {2} John expands his antichrists from being one individual to being a multitude {"many antichrists"} 1 John 2:18-19 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. __________________ {3} John reduces his antichrists from being only a person to being a heresy, that is to say, a heretical movement of the 1st Century 1 John 4:1-6 "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood." _____________ 1 John 2:22-23 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 2 John 7 "I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist 1 John 2:18 and 1 John 4:1-6 and 1 John 2:22-23 and 2 John 7 describes not only 1st Century Christian apostates, but also describes a 1st Century heretical movement, and does NOT predict any future antichrist. ___________ Conclusion: There are no BIBLE VERSES that connect John's antichrists to: {A} Daniel 7 {B} 2 Thess 2 {C} Revelation {D} any other part of the Bible Any connection made is 100% pure interpretative speculation. JAG ``

Josheb, many interesting and helpful points are found in your posts. Thank you for taking the time and for making the effort to make a contribution to the thread and to the lives of the thread-readers. I just now made a post regarding the "Beast" of Revelation in an effort to possibly stimulate an interest in a personal study of the mighty magnificent Christian Postmillennial Eschatological System. Feel free to post any pros or cons on that post if you have any thoughts on the "Beast." ________________ I was reading in Keith A. Mathison's Postmillennialism: An Eschatology Of Hope, and I came across an interest-grabbing tid-bit, and I thought I would share it with you and the thread. ______________ Start quote. "Jonathan Edwards {1703 -1758}, quite possibly the greatest theologian and [Christian] philosopher in American history, Jonathan Edwards set forth his Postmillennial Eschatology most completely in A History Of The Work Of Redemption. He shared the Puritan's faith in the advancement of the gospel in history." __________ Says Jonathan Edwards: "The future promised advancement of the Kingdom of Christ is an event unspeakably happy and glorious. The Scriptures speak of that time, as a time wherein God and His Son Jesus Christ will be most eminently glorified on Earth."__-Jonathan Edwards. Sentiments such as this have earned Jonathan Edwards the title of "the father of American Postmillennialism." End quote. ___________________________________ Source: Postmillennialism: An Eschatology Of Hope by Keith A. Mathison page 45

Who Was The Beast In The Book Of Revelation? I post the following regarding the "Beast" of Revelation to possibly stimulate an interest in a personal study of Postmillennialism. The "Beast" is quite popular in Christian Eschatological literature and the following might create some serious interest in a personal study of the magnificent victorious bright cheerful hopeful totally optimistic Christian Postmillennial Eschatological System. _______________ Who Was The Beast Of the Book Of Revelation? {The following was taken from He Shall Have Dominion. by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry Jr. It is not a word for word quote but the substance of this below is Dr. Gentry's. I typed it in. It is not on the web. Footnote at the bottom} _________________ Who Was The Beast Of Revelation? The Beast is a well known Christian Eschatological character. Premillennialists incorrectly believe that the Beast is to appear in the future. This is false. The Beast was a 1st Century character that appeared in the 1st Century and will never appear again in human history. The Apostle John wrote the book of Revelation. The Time Of The Beast. John clearly expects his prophesied events to take place in his day, the 1st Century. John writes: "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." Revelation 1:1 "Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near" Revelation 22:10 "must soon take place" "the time is near" In light of Revelation's significance to its first-century audience, the Beast must be someone relevant to that first-century audience. "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." Revelation 1:1-4 “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” Rev. 1:11 {These were churches of the 1st century that received this letter of Revelation and the warnings about the "Beast" were addressed to THOSE 1st Century churches who had to deal with the "Beast" who was a 1st Century evil character that was to do harm to THEM.} _____________________ Revelation 13 presents the Beast as a horrible and powerful foe attempting to destroy God's people. Sometimes Revelation presents the Beast as a kingdom and sometimes as an individua leader of that kingdom. In some places the Beast has seven heads which are seven kings collectively considered. In Revelation 13:1 John notes that he saw a Beast coming up out of the sea having 10 horns and seven heads. Revelation 17:10 specifically says that the seven heads represent seven kings. Thus the Beast is presented as a kingdom. But kingdoms have representatives. This is why John also speaks of the Beast as an individual. John urges his readers to calculate the number of the Beast which is the number of a man Revelation 13:18 The Beast's General Identity is the first-century Roman Empire and NOT a "revived Roman Empire" as imagined by Dispensationalism. According to Revelation 17:9 the Beast's seven heads represent "seven mountains." The seven mountains symbolize Rome. Rome is the one city in history distinguished and recognized by its seven mountains. ___________________ The Beast's Specific Identify. The Beast in his personal identity is Nero Caesar. He and he alone fits the bill as the personal and specific expression of the Beast. This vile character fulfills all the requirements of the text of Revelation. First the number of the Beast. In Revelation 13:18 the number of the Beast is 666. The usefulness of this number lies in the fact that in the first-century alphabets serve as both phonetic symbols and as arithmetical values. Significantly a common spelling of Nero Caesar's name is Nrwn Qsr, which provides the numerical value of 666 Second the Textual Variant. See Dr. Gentry's book for this explanation. Page 381 Third the Beastly Image. Revelation 13 both calls and portrays the one behind the 666 riddle as a "beast.". The term "beast" can easily symbolize persons with a beastly nature. Almost all scholars agree that Nero Caesar possessed a beastly nature.. Nero Caesar is even hated and feared by his own countrymen, as ancient Roman historians agree. The pagan writer Apollinius of Tyana, a contemporary of Nero Caesar, calls him a "beast." Fourth, the war with the saints. John's Beast will make war with the saints and overcome them.{Rev. 13:7} In fact Nero Caesar conducts a blasphemous war with the saints for a specific period of 42 months {Rev. 13:5} Nero begins his persecution of Christians in A.D. 64. The persecution finally ends when Nero Caesar dies on June 8, A.D.68 forty-two months later, but for a few days. {Point of interest: Nero's own end comes by the sword.} Conclusion: The Beast of Revelation was the beastly Nero Caesar of the 1st Century. End quote. Source He Shall Have Dominion by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry Jr. pages 379 - 381 JAG ``

Regarding the mirror: The point was not that you could actually see the image of God in man by looking into your bathroom mirror, rather the point was if you looked in your mirror, you would see your own person, which person is made in the image of God. The "mirror" is not essential to the point. I could have just as easily said , "Just stop for a minute and picture in your mind your own self as a person and you will visualize a person made in the image of God." I just decided to use the "mirror" thing to make the point because you get a more vivid image of yourself by looking in a mirror than you do when you mentally visualize yourself in your mind. __________ Thanks for your comments and for your interest in the thread and for your contributions to it. Much appreciated. JAG ``

Prycejosh, Thank you and thanks for reading my Opening Post.

God Bless. I have a prayer for you. Mat the Lord greatly bless you. May the Lord always keep you safe. May the Lord make His face to shine upon you. May the Lord always be gracious unto you. May the Lord always turn His face towards you. May the Lord always give you peace. May the Lord always protect all those you love. {Based on Numbers 6:24-27} PS I am glad you enjoy your work and find it rewarding. I can understand how it could be very rewarding. Take care. JAG

Miscellaneous Points: * I bolded some of your points up there that I found interesting. * You are a Christian Psychologist. I recall reading where you had to listen to some pretty awful stuff from some of the people you talk to. * I can see how that would present a real challenge day in day out. My prayers are with you. * Thank you for your thoughts up there. Take care. And God Bless. JAG

Josheb, Thank you for taking the time to reply and thank you for your comments. Regarding Postmillennialism I have something to share with you and with the thread. I ask that you read every word of this within a Christian Postmillennial context. {Give special attention to the book "Abundance" as a possibility for your next read.} Here we go: ITS GETTING BETTER ALL THE TIME , , , On a cheerful note I am rereading a book titled "Its Getting Better All The Time: 100 Greatest Trends Of The Last 100 Years, by Stephen Moore and Julian Simon. Here are a couple of comments from the blurbs: "A refreshing breath of optimism and sanity amidst all the gloom and doom."__John Stossel ABC News ________ "This book is so chock full of good news that it's virtually guaranteed to cheer up even the clinically depressed. Moore and Simon dismantle the doomsday pessimism that's still so commonplace in academia and the media. The evidence they present is irrefutable: Give people freedom and free enterprise and the potential for human progress is seemingly limitless."__Lawrence Kudlow, Chief Economist, CNBC _______________ ABUNDANCE , , , I am reading another book that is cheerful and uplifting to the human sprit. The title is Abundance : The Future Is Better Than You Think by Peter H. Diamandis and Steven Kotler. {Peter H. Diamandis is on You Tube.} Here are a few quotes from the blurbs on the back cover: "This brilliant must-read book provides the key to the coming era of abundance replacing eons of scarcity. Abundance is a powerful antidote to today's malaise and pessimism."___Ray Kurzweil ________ "This is an audacious and powerful read! Abundance shows us how today's philanthropists, innovators, and passionate entrepreneurs are more empowered than ever before to solve humanity's grand challenges." ___ Jeff Skoll ________ "Our world faces multiple crises and is awash in pessimism. Abundance redirects the conversation. spotlighting scientific innovators working to improve people's lives. The result is more than a portrait of brilliant minds -- it's a reminder of the infinite possibilities for doing good when we tap into our own empathy and wisdom." ___ Arianna Huffington ________ One more quote from the inside cover: "Since the dawn of humanity, a privileged few have lived in stark contrast to the hardscrabble majority. Conventional wisdom says this gap cannot be closed. But it is closing -- fast." ______________ JAG Writes: Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think has 386 pages and is a gripping read especially if you love people and have an interest in the future and have a continual prayer in your heart to God that He will increasingly bless and provide for His people all over this world that He has created. I personally have a keen interest in the future and in helping organizations that are helping people. Not only does my wife and I support our local Baptist Church with our tithes and offerings, but we also support Compassion International by sponsoring a child in one of the Third World countries. In addition to that we help support Samaritan's Purse which has as it's motto "Helping In Jesus Name. God has blessed America with an $18 trillion dollar annual economy, and I thank God for that. It has been said that "There is no limit to what God will do for the man that will use what God has given him to help others." "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Luke 6:38 You cannot out give God. GOD BLESS AMERICA. PS. My interest in books like "Its getting Better All The Time: 100 Greatest Trends Of The Lost 100 Years" and "Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think" is because I am vitally interested in the: {1} success of all Christian Organizations that are helping hurting people around the world and needs $ funding {2} success of Christian Missions which requires $ funding {3} success of The Gideon's International that puts Bibles all over the world and requires $ funding {Bibles cost money} {4} success of Samaritan's Purse, Franklin Graham's organization that requires $ funding , , "Helping In Jesus' Name" {5} success of Compassion International that helps children in poor countries and requires $ funding. {6} success in maintaining God's Christian Churches throughout America and the world, both their physical infrastructure {Church buildings} and their Adult and Youth Programs and Music Programs and their Missions Outreach Programs all needing $ funding. {7} success of America's millions of Families all of whom needs $ funding , , , , , , all {1} through {7} up there requires $ funding. ___________ {1} through {7} up there understood within the context of the success of worldwide Christendom as she advances The Great Commission of the Lord Jesus to His Christian Church given to her by Him in Matthew 28:16-20. JAG ``