Eha

On 10/15/2018 at 11:24 PM, Mike 2 said:

I'm curious why you say just HOLY SPIRIT instead of THE Holy Spirit like the bible does?

BECAUSE OF BAD ENGLISH, WHICH ISNT MY NATIVE LANGUAGE?
anyway, i leave this forum, so just ignore me.

.

.

13 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

'why' women are throughout the entire Bible are treated as subservient

i think there is a GOOD reason for it. and i REALLY BELIEVE< THAT FATHER IS JUST. so, if you want more... go on!

stop speaking harsh words against God and start study - how to be equal with men. 

because God NEVER say -it is not possible.

because God wants us to suffer less (feeling guilty for whole world or suffer pain for several hours... i think God did spare us, women A LOT!!!)

and you do not like it - dont mean, we are not equal to men.

God say opposite!

Ro 2: ¹¹ For God shows no partiality.

btw, i was in place of men for 10 years. and i totally hate it!!! you were too? no? dont ask it too... my advice.

reminder from God just seconds ago - "many women are now in the place of men - single mothers. there is not much happy of them about it. but they have chance to learn out, what "being a man" really means.."

3 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

women are equal to men in all things, when that was never true, right from the start.

no, they were not equal - man, by plan of God, had to bring home food, build home,  be good father to children - discipline, parenthood - most jobs were put on men... 

and that "poor" woman have to be just helper at home...

that is, what were plan of God. Women were like flowers, that had to been to care of, like a fragile crystal.

that is not so, doesnt mean, Father is just and had good plan..

put Bible also say, that listen yours mother is good for you in many way's - especially for men...

women in fact, were put in "vase" with respect and love from God the Father.

btw, God still take care of me, like i am something very... very fragile. He always find gentle words for me. He WERE NEVER UNJUST TO ME, NEVER DID PUT ME SITUATION, THAT WERE UNEQUAL!

Just now, eileenhat said:

so she forsook God and in doing so brought forth a harsher judgement.

you think so? 

woman have to suffer birthpangs.

because of Adam WHOLE EARTH WAS CURSED...

what is harsher - suffer by yourself or make suffer whole earth?

Father the God IS JUST, then  WHY ADAM's deed bring curse to whole earth?

19 hours ago, JohnD said:

Well...

i, as a woman, and was put in situation, that i had to act like man, almost 10 years, still believe, because i have some experience, what means to be a man (just some) and having several man-friends and having a huge interest - who is a man (  ) and talking about it with God, now are very sure - man  do that job better, in many ways. 

but i am agree with you - there are women, who are good in that position also. if God did choose some women to lead whole nation (even married), there had to be a good reason. and i DO believe - God KNOWS what He is doing , so i trust Him, when He says - i make no difference between man and woman.

so +1 from me

On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 0:34 AM, zdanman said:

how do you believe in someone you cannot see?

it was my start also. question was - 

1 - is ther God at all?

2 - which religion is right?

as i did know only christianity at that moment, i did ask for help in the Name of Jesus.

so i did get help once (appartment, was homeless), second - with milk  2 times (had only flour to eat and that is not enough to get milk in my breast for a baby), with food .... many times, with things i did need (clothing, electronics and so on) ... still get help every month, even every week, with food almost every day... with parenting, guiding, with teachings and Bible study - every day. with my job and so on and so on...

thing is - i did notice, that NOTHING DID NOT HAPPEN when i did ask for help without Name of Jesus - so i had to admit - it was not an accident or coincident, but RULE. yet i did want more - be sure 1000%, because Bible say - it is matter of life and death. so i did ask God the Father, in the name of Jesus, help me out there.

and He did...

just - a pay attention and follow Jesus teachings step by step - and... 

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

will be real experience in yours life. because Jesus DID PROMISE IT TO EVERY BELIEVER

1 hour ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

How do you know that thief on the cross wasn't nailed there for simply stealing a loaf of bread so he could eat? How do you know that thief wasn't baptized?

can i add? there is one thing more - that thief was on cross BEFORE  New Testament came into force - Jesus didnt die yet, when that thief did accept Jesus. so there was testimony of Jesus and John's water baptism.

(and as you did say and  i did read from Bible - second that thief did fulfill, about first - water baptism - none knows... )

just note for make truth complete.

On Friday, August 05, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Pahu said:

 

Sexual Reproduction

 

 

   http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/webpictures/lifesciences-male_and_female_birds.jpg [/img]

Figure 16: Male and Female Birds. Even evolutionists admit that evolution seems incompatible with sexual reproduction. For example, how could organisms evolve to the point where they could reproduce before they could reproduce?

Either this series of incredible and complementary events happened by random, evolutionary processes, or sexual reproduction was designed by intelligence.

 

If sexual reproduction in plants, animals, and humans is a result of evolutionary sequences, an unbelievable series of chance events must have occurred at each stage. 

 

1. The amazingly complex, radically different, yet complementary reproductive systems of the male and female must have completely and independently evolved at each stage at about the same time and place. Just a slight incompleteness in only one of the two would make both reproductive systems useless, and the organism would become extinct. 

 

2. The physical, chemical, and emotional systems of the male and female would also need to be compatible (a). 

 

3. The millions of complex products of a male reproductive system (pollen or sperm) must have an affinity for and a mechanical, chemical (b) and electrical (c) compatibility with the eggs of the female reproductive system. 

 

4. The many intricate processes occurring at the molecular level inside the fertilized egg would have to work with fantastic precision—processes scientists can describe only in a general sense (d) 

 

5. The environment of this fertilized egg, from conception through adulthood and until it also reproduced with another sexually capable adult (who also “accidentally” evolved), would have to be tightly controlled. 

 

6. This remarkable string of “accidents” must have been repeated for millions of species. 

 

a.     In humans and in all mammals, a mother’s immune system, contrary to its normal function, must learn not to attack her unborn baby—half of whom is a “foreign body” from the father. If these immune systems functioned “properly,” mammals—including each of us—would not exist.

 

“The mysterious lack of rejection of the fetus has puzzled generations of reproductive immunologists and no comprehensive explanation has yet emerged.” [Charles A. Janeway Jr. et al., Immuno Biology (London: Current Biology Limited, 1997), p. 12:24.]

 

b. N. W. Pixie, “Boring Sperm,” Nature, Vol. 351, 27 June 1991, p. 704.

 

c. Meredith Gould and Jose Luis Stephano, “Electrical Responses of Eggs to Acrosomal Protein Similar to Those Induced by Sperm,” Science, Vol. 235, 27 March 1987, pp. 1654–1656.

 

d. For example, how could meiosis evolve?

 

Furthermore, if sexual reproduction evolved even once, the steps by which an embryo becomes either a male or female should be similar for all animals. Actually, these steps vary among animals (e). 

 

Evolution theory predicts nature would select asexual rather than sexual reproduction (f). But if asexual reproduction (splitting an organism into two identical organisms) evolved before sexual reproduction, how did complex sexual diversity arise—or survive?

 

If life evolved, why would any form of life live long beyond its reproductive age, when beneficial changes cannot be passed on? All the energy expended, supposedly over millions of years, to allow organisms to live beyond reproductive age would be a waste. In other words, why haven’t all organisms evolved reproductive systems that last a lifetime?

 

Finally, to produce the first life form would be one miracle. But for natural processes to produce life that immediately had the capability to reproduce itself would be a miracle on top of a miracle (g). 

 

e. “But the sex-determination genes in the fruit fly and the nematode are completely unrelated to each other, let alone to those in mammals.” Jean Marx, “Tracing How the Sexes Develop,” Science, Vol. 269, 29 September 1955, p. 1822.

 

f. “This book is written from a conviction that the prevalence of sexual reproduction in higher plants and animals is inconsistent with current evolutionary theory.” George C. Williams, Sex and Evolution (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1975), p. v.

 

“So why is there sex? We do not have a compelling answer to the question. Despite some ingenious suggestions by orthodox Darwinians (notably G. C. Williams 1975; John Maynard Smith 1978), there is no convincing Darwinian history for the emergence of sexual reproduction. However, evolutionary theorists believe that the problem will be solved without abandoning the main Darwinian insights—just as early nineteenth-century astronomers believed that the problem of the motion of Uranus could be overcome without major modification of Newton’s celestial mechanics.” Philip Kitcher, Abusing Science: The Case Against Creationism (Cambridge, Massachusetts: The MIT Press, 1982), p. 54.

 

“The evolution of sex is one of the major unsolved problems of biology. Even those with enough hubris to publish on the topic often freely admit that they have little idea of how sex originated or is maintained. It is enough to give heart to creationists.” Michael Rose, “Slap and Tickle in the Primeval Soup,” New Scientist, Vol. 112, 30 October 1986, p. 55.

 

“Indeed, the persistence of sex is one of the fundamental mysteries in evolutionary biology today.” Gina Maranto and Shannon Brownlee, “Why Sex?” Discover, February 1984, p. 24.

 

“Sex is something of an embarrassment to evolutionary biologists. Textbooks understandably skirt the issue, keeping it a closely guarded secret.” Kathleen McAuliffe, “Why We Have Sex,” Omni, December 1983, p. 18.

 

“From an evolutionary viewpoint the sex differentiation is impossible to understand, as well as the structural sexual differences between the systematic categories which are sometimes immense. We know that intersexes [organisms that are partly male and partly female] within a species must be sterile. How is it, then, possible to imagine bridges between two amazingly different structural types?”   Nilsson, p. 1225.

 

“One idea those attending the sex symposium seemed to agree on is that no one knows why sex persists.” [According to evolution, it should not. W.B.] Gardiner Morse, “Why Is Sex?” Science News, Vol. 126, 8 September 1984, p. 155.

 

g. “In the discipline of developmental biology, creationist and mechanist concur except on just one point—a work of art, a machine or a body which can reproduce itself cannot first make itself.”   Pitman, p. 135.

 

[[url=http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/LifeSciences42.html]From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown[/url]]

 

Job 5:13

He catches the wise in their own craftiness, and the schemes of the wily are brought to a quick end.

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 5:13 PM, BlackZeppelin said:

I have been out of fellowship for 16 years.  Long story, but inbetween a nutshell, I had horrible experiences with my last 2 churches.  I pray for forgiveness but am still angry and bitter all these years later. 

I have be regularly going back to fellowship but have a major problem:  I can't help it, but I have nothing but contempt for pastors and church leaders.  I know that sounds terrible but this is what it is. I'm just being honest. 

What is wrong with me?  I go to a church and come out afterwards just despising pastors.  I see them as leeches and users and abusers.  I have prayed so much for the past to be healed but am so bitter 16 years later.  I say to myself over and over again that no pastor will ever have a say in my life again.  

I feel I'm a lost cause and damaged goods.  

you are not alone here. I just did give it into God's hands. my search did not give any results.

about bitter in the heart - i did ask God to help me out and forgot what made me bitter. He did. after i did forgive them, i did forgot those moments and even people. i did ask it, because God also say in the Bible - "I wont remember yours sin anymore" - so, if Jesus did take Father the God as example to  learn, why shouldn't we ?

1 hour ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

God's blessings that you deemed us worthy of your precious testimony. I have in my years grown more and more adept at watching what happens in my life and how if I take the time I see God, Father as you say, delivering an opportunity to put his wise teachings into action. 
We can read the Bible all day long but if we do not glean the message there, the instructions there for incorporating those parables, idioms, allegory, into our own lives, we miss the point. And the Bible then serves as just a book. Which is not meant to happen for those who are members of God's church.

Thank you again for sharing.

you may thank Father - He did stand on, that i post it here

thank you for kindness

God - "I cant change, what you did. But I can clean you from that sin."

When my first week with Father end, whole week or so i did ask questions about everything - life , world, wonders, mysteries, Bible, me and so on, i did start study Bible with Him.
i remember very clear how He did explain me Bible, about quote with stones, altar and why Father told, - dont change stones. 
but just lately i did remember, what did happen after.
when we did talk about "come to God as you are", i did remind something, i did wrong.


when i told Father - forgive me , that i did it wrong.
Father told me - I cant change, what you did. But I can clean you from that sin. DONT TELL ME, WHAT YOU DID, TELL ME - WHO YOU ARE! THAT MEANS "COME AS YOU ARE"

its a big difference. its easy to say - oh! sorry i did stole yours bag!
but try to say - forgive me, im a thief, i did stole yours bag.

its a big difference. and its truth. it hurt, but it is only way, let Father to clean you - ADMIT TRUTH, NOT ONLY SIN, YOU DID COMMIT.

again my kids were those, who needed that lesson and Holy Spirit did remind me, why i always ask forgiveness, who i am, not only, what i did. i forgot reasons and lesson and how i did get there, as many other things, i know now, but forgot, why..

i am glad, Holy Spirit did remind me that lesson. and i am glad i can share it. 

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi,

I guess this is an old thread brought back to some life. It seems to me the question was answered, actually asked and answered, many hundreds of years ago when Paul wrote the church at Rome. What we now call Romans  chapters 6 and 7 pretty much cover the subject.

 

it is. but if honestly, i didnt understand nothing in Paul's letters. when Father told me "truth will set you free", i had many questions, like
how?
when?
who?
why?
and so on.

what i love, its, when Father starts to reveal truth. He brings examples from my life. He quotes verses from Bible and put them together, that i could see whole picture. more of that, Father always (ALWAYS) lead me through step by step, explaining very detailed, how and what to do, and even when.

if you see that in the chapter of 6 and 7, you must have gifted with a lot of wisdom. i could understand Paul only when i did went through, what he is talking about and even then - AFTER Father "translate" he's words to me with examples and quotes... 

only good news is, that im not only one, who couldn't understand Paul so easily

2Peter 3:15 
And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 0:19 PM, groundzero said:

How does one talk to your God so they can receive a satisfactory reply. A reply that casts no doubt it is him, is there an actual way for success?

it is. how it did start with me, what i did and what Father did told me, what really is important to a start:

first, its is like thought.

second - turn off all noises in your home - tv, radio, music - keep quiet for weeks or more (until you recognize Father's voice, at least)

third - read new testament and try to do everything, what Jesus teach there - Jesus's teachings are for beginners mostly. why i say "try" because you cant do everything, like He teach, right away. you will understand.

fourth - ask Father to speak with you

fifth - my sister in faith did give me prayer, i write it here: Father, please open my eyes and ears of heart, in the Name of Jesus.

you will definetly understand, do Father speak to you, or its yours thoughts, believe me  but i did it simple way - when i finally did believe, that thoughts i did get, were not mine, i ... just did ask "who speak with me?" yeah i did felt myself silly that moment and yes, not so long after did went to psychiatrist to check out - maybe im just crazy..? :)) yet, it was beginning of beautiful time.

Father will lead you from this point by Himself

1 John 2:27 ..you have no need that anyone should teach you.

btw in reality Father speaks with everyone every day through Holy Spirit - ideas, "instinct" and so on - it is really Holy Spirit guiding people... and animals   example, that ideas come from Father: Isaiah 28:23 - 29. pay attention - all people did know (at last in the past) , how to plow right ... all good come from above...

Proverbs 1:

23 If you turn at my reproof,
     behold, I will pour out my spirit to you;
     I will make my words known to you.
⁽²⁴  Because I have called and you refused to listen,...)

33  but whoever listens to me will dwell secure
      and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.

now, when you already know, that you hear Father already through Holy Spirit, just didnt recognize He's voice yet, i can say, from my experience, that hard part is to pay attention and thats why you need silence for a time (for me it was 3 months total silence in home.. not even one minute of music or tv or smth).

it is possible to hear Father very clearly, but.. that part is , where Father will take the leading in He's hands   He is best teacher ^^

there may appear some questions, after you already do recognize He's voice, ask them and i will answer as Father says, ok? 

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Butterfly28 said:

Jesus said, My yoke is easy and my burden is light? Kind off like Cast your cares on me? What does it mean exactly? An example would be helpful.

an example:

my son did start stole toys from other kids.

for years i did all i could, to stop it. i did pay a lot of attention on him. did ask my friends and family to talk with him. went to psychiatrist to get help. did look for advices, from other parents, in the internet.  so it was several years nightmare.

he did promise to stop stealing, but one day, i did find out, that he did it again.

so i did run away  another room and said to Father, that He knows my son's heart, He can help, that i am out of ideas and hope - all my job was useless.

Father told me to go back to my son and tell him, what He say to me. 

i did cry, was upset and really do not remember much, what exactly Father did told me. i just did repeat everything, He did say. just few minutes later, my son suddenly looked at me, like he understood something very important. he didnt say a word, just seconds later we did cry together and did hug each other. since that day stealing did end.

all my years of work was useless, but few words from Father did change my son forever.  now its 4 years, since he did stop stealing. and more of it - my son is so different now, he work hard on himself, to live, like it is right and just. and relationship between me and my son, it was painful and hard before, but now its like - we are best friends. he is 16 now. Father give me almost every day little tips, how to react, what to say, when to stop talking or what to not to say. often Father give advices before my son enter home. i honestly say - when i look at others - all that fights and hate and to us - without advices of Father i even do not want to imagine, what could be situation now.

just few words or years of pain - what you choose?

1 minute ago, RustyAngeL said:

Nor do I understand what you mean.  No true believer in Jesus has the liberty to sin, we shouldn't even want to.  Our first and foremost desire should be to serve God and follow Him.

mmm...? i say  - we can and should live without sin, just HOW - it was my 18 years study. 

what we can do

when Jesus free us and how

and so on...

hope its more clear now.

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Leonardo Von said:

 

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Leonardo Von said:

The main thing is to submit to Jesus Christ. It is no good that we fight against sin if we do not have a deep and sincere desire to please Jesus Christ, if we have no pleasure in His company.

Hello!

Honestly - i do not understand, what you mean under "if we do not have a deep and sincere desire to please Jesus Christ, if we have no pleasure in His company."

did you read all post?  it was because of Jesus, i did cry 7 years, and did everything to stop sinning. because, i dont want to be hypocrite.

i may add just, that i was set free from that sin.  it was powerful moment and my friends were witnesses of it. 

18 years of my life i did study, what means live without sin, how can it happen and what means

"if you sin, you are slave of sin"
"I did come to free slaves"
"do not sin anymore"

all those 3 points, i did get tens of lessons, practice and proofs, that i do understand it right. that means - what i know, works always and every day.

"no pleasure of Jesus's company?"

... how can i comment that? 

i think there is misunderstanding.

maybe my english is just too bad... i do enjoy every minute with Jesus, talking with Him, seeing Him sometimes (mostly in my visions).

2 hours ago, RustyAngeL said:

Yes we are filled with the Holy Spirit at the time we are saved.  We can have that same power and not speak in tongues.  And Eha I am reminded of a story about Dr. Dwight L. Moody.  He had such a powerful encounter with God that after several hours, he had to ask God to stay His Hand because he could no longer physically bear it.  He never said anything about speaking in tongues but just  a most powerful presence of God.

this is my testimony ACCORDING with Bible. who deny ANY WORD OF JESUS, let him answer to Father.

1 Timothy 6-20
Avoid theirreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” 21 for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. 
 

speaking in tongues is sign with Holy Spirit baptism. i have had met many baptized with Holy Spirit and all they speak some tongue.  also it is what Paul say. and what we see in acts and most , that many DENY, important are JESUS words - 

 

even im laughed out here, as i "hear voices"   i, when speak with Father ALWAYS CHECK out, that is written also. He do help me, giving and revealing verses from Bible, that are obvios and are hidden, that proves - it did come from HIM.

 

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 4:50 PM, coheir said:

I see 13 post that I was not notified about, would have been nice to know someone was talking in this thread. It has some good info, thanks for the variety of ideas.

right after topic header you see - follow this - button, you will be notified then on every post

40 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

so the question  here is , from my observation, are we as christians all serving the same JESUS, and GOD, of the Bible ?

Spirit in us testimony.  IF we are lead by ONE Spirit, then all we understand, believe, learn, see, feel are or become in time, more similar - we remain as universal persons, but our understanding, knowledge, believes become more similar - because we get all that from ONE Spirit .
so question is - IF and as you said - SAME.
because teachings come from unholy spirits, and also from our minds also - if (AGAIN - IF) we are NOT lead by ONE Spirit - testimony from Spirit (our understandings, knowledge, believe) says it sooner or later.

47 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

or is it a natter of how much it impacts there daily lives, or how much they read the Bible ?

it certainly do - more you "eat" faster you grow - you wont get "fat" eating spiritual food (reading Bible) a LOT .
 

54 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

I don't think truly that just because some  of us call our selves Christians that we are really Christians, what is a real Christian ?

anyone who are lead by Holy Spirit are childrens of Father = true christians.

48 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

 we have thousands of Christian denominations, and many cannot even come to the same agreement to a lot of the ways , and questions in the bible, ?

+

55 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

 and why do we have so many counterfeit Christians, claiming to be Christians, what is in it for them ?

1 Timothy 6-20
Avoid their reverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” 21 for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. 

then some leaves and make another group. when they ... dont agree again, some of them leave and .. make another group - thats why so many different denominations - and who ever think, that some of them are "more right" then others, they go opposite against Father Himself - im harsh?
no.
1 God = 1 Faith
ANY denomination = proud = NO God

because "and who ever think, that some of them are "more right" then others," = proud

if you truly have Spirit of Jesus - humble is one fruit, that get stronger in time. even you fight against lies with hate -  against lies, that some of yours brothers/sisters (that you trully believe, are lead by SAME Spirit) are deceived,  you NEVER act with hate, bu always with love.
it comes from inside - it comes from heart, it comes from Holy Spirit that USE YOURS HEART, to teach you, lead you...
you just WANT TO - because (and again - it is so ONLY IF..) Holy Spirit in you leads you.

 

9 hours ago, other one said:

(the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other.

it does not lay on scripture. after Israel is now rebuilt Father states clearly He wont let that happen anymore.

10 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

does that seem odd, and now we are all in fear of this movement?

no fear. just scripture is going to fulfill. 

18 hours ago, other one said:

On her way to work one morning
Down the path along side the lake
A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake
His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
"Oh well," she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you"
"Take me in oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman, " sighed the snake

She wrapped him up all cozy in a curvature of silk
And then laid him by the fireside with some honey and some milk
Now she hurried home from work that night as soon as she arrived
She found that pretty snake she'd taking in had been revived
"Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman, " sighed the snake

Now she clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful," she cried
"But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died"
Now she stroked his pretty skin and then she kissed and held him tight
But instead of saying thanks, that snake gave her a vicious bite
"Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman, " sighed the snake

"I saved you," cried that woman
"And you've bit me even, why?
You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die"
"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin
"You knew dxxn well I was a snake before you took me in
"Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman, " sighed the snake

best description about that situation

14 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

to claim that Jesus was not God

HE IS GOD. Jesus Christ did BORN FROM FATHER, angels, earth universe, we are CREATION. it probally are mistranslation, but i cant find other verse about Jesus birth. did look for it for all day yesterday (it was LONG time ago i did study Jesus birth) where FATHER says - I did BIRTH HIM FROM MY MOUTH (or something like that...)
so JESUS DID BORN FROM FATHER before everything OTHER was CREATED.

THATS WHY FATHER CALL HIM -SON.
FATHER WAS

JESUS BORN FROM FATHER... thats what im saying and really sad, that cant find that scripture. anyway... stone me if you want, but ... JESUS IS NOT SAME with FATHER HE IS SON, FATHER IS FATHER..
have a blessed day.