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Everything posted by Marcus O'Reillius
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QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
That is so juvenile. On another website chat board you list yourself as being 65 years-old. Oh really? Jesus is about to ascend to Heaven. He will be missed by the Apostles. Not to worry, He says, I will come back and take you to where I am about to go. And the Great Multitude are delivered to the "barn" of Heaven in Revelation 7:9-17. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
The demonstrative adjective, while pointing to a specific megas thlipsis, is not required. There is only one megas thlipsis in the Bible: the one that comes after the midpoint abomination as Jesus defined it: a specific and unique time. And like the Olivet Discourse, the arrival of the Great Multitude happens after the prerequisite sun/moon/star event preceding the Day of the Lord. What we are seeing is a Great Multitude, who come out of time of intense persecution, IN HEAVEN, before the Father, and they have all the requirements of the Elect: ~they have washed their robes white in the blood of the Lamb. Petty nit-picking dismissed. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
And not so fast again. Isa 18:3 All you inhabitants of the world and dwellers on earth, As soon as a standard is raised on the mountains, you will see it, And as soon as the trumpet is blown, you will hear it. - NASB The standard is raised before the trumpets of battle sound. And it never says the Lord God blows this particular trumpet... While both chapters may describe the battles around Jerusalem that are fought on the Day of the Lord, your reliance upon a coincident of words to say we will be taken to the land of Israel on the Day of the Lord is erroneous! In Isaiah 18:4, God is looking FROM His Dwelling Place - where Jesus is now. In Psalm 132:14, Jesus will dwell in the Land of Zion - read Ezekiel 44. He will reside in the Temple in Jerusalem from time to time. On the Day of the Lord - when the Last Trumpet sounds - it is a day of battle, of fire and blood, and it is not a fit place for Christ's Bride: the Church. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Not so fast... When I actually checked the language, I found you're making a lot of assumptions here so as to state your conclusion that they are the same - and they are not. Zec 9:16 And the Lord their God will save them in that day As the flock of His people; For they are as the stones of a crown, Sparkling in His land. - NASB Zec 9:16 And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land. - KJV Both lines come from the same two words: H5264 - nacac, and H127 - 'adamah nacac means to lift up, to exalt. As they relate to the jewels of a diadem, the KJV makes them into an ensign which misses the point of the jewels (stones) in the first place. There is no banner, no ensign in the original language. And that is why the NASB, the best word-for-word translation we have in the English, uses "sparkling" to convey the brilliance of these Jewels of God's. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
It's not the tribulation "period". It's the Great Tribulation. It is a misnomer to call the one 'seven' the "tribulation period". Those who are due death as a measure of justice are not unduly "distressed". It is a measure of God's Justice that they suffer. Only the innocent are unduly distressed when persecuted to death. Such is the effect of the Great Tribulation. The effect of the Great Tribulation is on the Elect - only. The reason, back in verse 22, that God shortens the time of the Great Tribulation - is so that some of the Elect would survive. These surviving Elect are the subject of 1Th 4:17. There Paul terms them: "we who are alive and remain" because most are dead and gone because of the Great Tribulation. So much for death and taxes as being certain; because for some of us: we will never die. It is only for those few at that time who are raptured, that is: caught up while still alive. Since Jesus began the detailed portion of the "end" with the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel - - it is only fitting to go to another account with that revealed to see the source for the Great Tribulation: Rev 13:14 And he (the false prophet) deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast (of a man - the anti-Christ), telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast (anti-Christ: King of the North) to be killed. 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. The reason for the Great Tribulation are the TWO LAWS which go into effect at the midpoint abomination: the talking image of the anti-Christ. As Jesus said would happen after the midpoint abomination: Mt 24:21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. This event is both specific and unique: it has never happened before, and it will not be repeated. And we are told to do neither of the things proclaimed! That is why the Elect are in serious danger of being eliminated. AND the wicked have NO fear because they do both - their lives are not in danger. So when Jesus says: 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; It concerns only that life which is being threatened. Staying for a moment on Revelation 13, subsequent to it is the Harvest of Rev 14:14-16. And after that - two Angels begin God's Wrath with fire and blood in Rev 14:17-20. These are two elements also found on the Day of the Lord. They are also both of the elements found with the first Trumpet of God's Wrath- blown by an Angel when the Scroll is finally unsealed in Rev 8. The Last Trumpet is a named Trumpet blown by God assembling His Elect. The numbered Trumpets of Revelation blown by Angels are announcement calls introducing God's Wrath. -
Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?
Marcus O'Reillius replied to Revelation Man's topic in Eschatology
You voted for hilLIARy didn't you? -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Paul gives explicit explanation on the resurrection of the Dead in Christ. It involves new and immortal bodies. 1Co 15:35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" 36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became A living soul." The last Adam became a life- giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. In Ezekiel 37, the dead of Israel will live again, on the earth with human bodies: 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone. 8 And I looked, and behold, sinews were on them, and flesh grew and skin covered them; 1Co 15 describes a different kind of resurrection of the dead than does Ezekiel 37. 1Co 15 is a spiritual body. Ezekiel 37 is an earthly body. People will live and die on the earth during the Millennium. Isa 65:20 "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed. 21 "They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 "They will not build and another inhabit, They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people, And My chosen ones will wear out the work of their hands. 23 "They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for calamity; For they are the offspring of those blessed by the Lord, And their descendants with them. And people who lived before will live again: Ezekiel 44:10 But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. 11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister to them. Ezekiel 44:15 "But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood," declares the Lord God. 16 "They shall enter My sanctuary; they shall come near to My table to minister to Me and keep My charge. The land of Israel is parsed out to the twelve tribes of Israel - of old - in the book of Ezekiel. Paul said: All of Israel will be saved. But they are not of the Elect at Jesus' Return because they do not yet believe. There is a special dispensation to the priestly class, but Jerusalem itself is only said to be the Camp of God in the book of Revelation. That is because it is not our home. We are taken to the barn of Heaven. And you do not have to live where you reign. It is at the second Resurrection, at the end of the Millennium, when Jew and Gentile are truly, and finally, united in one body of believers in Christ Jesus. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Here, logically from Scripture, is why the Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet of God's Wrath. 1. The Last Trumpet calls the Dead forth from Paradise (the ends of Heaven). 1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 2. That happens on the Day of the Lord as Paul identifies it. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 2TH 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. On the Day of the Lord we will see the Dead in Christ rise first and then we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them on the clouds. So we have two markers here which identify when Jesus is coming for us. It is on the Day of the Lord. It is on the clouds. 3. The Day of the Lord is when Jesus comes to get us. The Day of the Lord is identified by its signature Sun/moon/star sign: MT 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " `the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' MT 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Jesus uses the Sun/moon/star event from prophecy to identify the Day when He comes on the clouds to gather the Elect - just like Paul says in 1Th 4:16-17 which directly relates back to 1Co 15:52. 4. The specific and unique signature sign heralding the Day of the Lord is also revealed by Jesus to John for the sequence of the Day of the Lord in the Seal/Scroll vision given to John: REV 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Therefore, we can conclude that Day of the Lord happens at the breaking of the sixth Seal. - The Day of the Lord is when we are gathered up as Paul said in Second Thessalonians. - Jesus said that after the Day of the Lord sign comes, the Elect will be gathered. - Therefore, in the Seal/Scroll account of Revelation chapters 4-11, the Great Multitude are the result of that gathering Harvest of Saints out of the then-shortened time of the Great Tribulation. - This claim is buttressed by the eyewitness testimony of an Elder who says the Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation, which echoes exactly the order Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse. The Day of the Lord happens before ANY of the Trumpet Judgments go forth. Only after the sixth Seal is broken is the seventh Seal broken. Then, and only then, when all the Seals have been broken, can the Scroll, where “desolations have been decreed” from 2500 years ago (Dan 9:26), be read, and only then does the First Trumpet of seven even sound. And then, and only then, do we see “desolations” of Biblical proportions inflicted upon creation which in turn creates hardship for the wicked left upon the earth. The Church is not to endure these conditions: Rom 2:8 But for those who are self–seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. Rom 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 1Th 1:10 …and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead —Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. 1Th 5:8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self–controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. The Last Trumpet is not the seventh Trumpet. The Bible never labels the seventh Trumpet as the Last Trumpet. Instead, the “Last Trumpet,” as a named trumpet, is associated with the opening of Rosh ha-Shanah, the fall time Holy Day also known as the Festival of Trumpets. It is the first of many different trumpet soundings which occur over the next two days of this special Holy “Day” observance. The “Last Trumpet” in Jewish ritual observance, of which Paul was schooled and practiced, is the mirror horn from the blowing of the “First Trumpet” sounded at the Festival of First Fruits in the spring. The Last Trumpet in end-time prophecy happens after: The one ‘seven’ starts The first half oppression The midpoint abomination(s) The Great Tribulation It happens on: The Day of the Lord It happens before: Any of God’s Wrath goes forth which begins with fire (and the resultant smoke) on the Day of the Lord (second half) – first Trumpet The rest of the Trumpet Judgments (which take time) The final Bowl Judgments (which are the third Woe which is never delineated in the Seal chronology) which complete the one ‘seven’ as per Daniel 9:27. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
When Jesus Returns, He does not gather the Jews. Why not? Because they don't believe. Remember: the ultimate goal is to be reunited with the Father, and the only way to the Father is through Jesus. Jesus will unite Jew and Gentile to the Father: eventually... but not at the end of the Age of Man's rule. The Jews will not have sought Jesus even at the eve of the final battle at Armageddon. The Day of the Lord is two-fold. 1. For us: it is redemption, salvation, and it is our rescue. It is a Day when Jesus comes and steals the most valuable thing in all the world from the anti-Christ and Satan: the Elect. 2. But for the unbelieving Jew, it is the Day of Jacob's Trouble. It is a day of wailing, of battle, and of death. ISA 13:9See, the day of the LORD is coming --a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger-- to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. ISA 13:10The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. ISA 13:11I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. ISA 13:12I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. ISA 13:13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger. _________________________________________________________ JOEL 2:2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come. JOEL 2:3Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste-- nothing escapes them. JOEL 2:4They have the appearance of horses; they gallop along like cavalry. JOEL 2:5With a noise like that of chariots they leap over the mountaintops, like a crackling fire consuming stubble, like a mighty army drawn up for battle. JOEL 2:6At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale. JOEL 2:7They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course. JOEL 2:8They do not jostle each other; each marches straight ahead. They plunge through defenses without breaking ranks. JOEL 2:9They rush upon the city; they run along the wall. They climb into the houses; like thieves they enter through the windows. JOEL 2:10Before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine. JOEL 2:11The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it? ____________________________________________________ But now where are the Jews? What of them? ____________________________________________________ Hos 6:3Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear; he will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth." 4"What can I do with you, Ephraim? What can I do with you, Judah? Your love is like the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears. The imagery of former and latter rain also are tied to the Day of the Lord in Joel 2 and as a blessing to Israel with the return of the Lord, the autumn rain being mentioned first and repeated in verse 23 as part of God’s ongoing promise fulfillment. So bearing in mind that the dew comes from God, and the husband coming from a far land, suddenly and unexpectedly, calls on his wife – but gives her scant time to answer; an analogy may be drawn to the Jewish people who literally “miss” Jesus, probably because they are not looking for Him in the guise He arrives. It will not be until the end of the one ‘seven’ that they finally recognized Him as their Messiah King. Viewed in this perspective, the following verses become more poignant than a simple love affair: SoS 5:2I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My beloved is knocking: "Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night." 3I have taken off my robe— must I put it on again? I have washed my feet— must I soil them again? 4My beloved thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him. 5I arose to open for my beloved, and my hands dripped with myrrh, my fingers with flowing myrrh, on the handles of the bolt. 6I opened for my beloved, but my beloved had left; he was gone. My heart sank at his departure. I looked for him but did not find him. I called him but he did not answer. 7The watchmen found me as they made their rounds in the city. They beat me, they bruised me; they took away my cloak, those watchmen of the walls! 8Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you — if you find my beloved, what will you tell him? Tell him I am faint with love. How is it that the Remnant Jews “miss” Jesus? Well, they are not “watching” for Him. Even the watchmen in this story act dishonorably and don’t protect the woman. For Israel in Old Testament prophecy, the Day of the Lord is not a pleasant affair. It is not a day of gladness, but of impending doom. While every eye will see Him as Rev 1:7 states, the mindset of the Remnant Jews is set for self-preservation following advice like this in a companion passage to the second Advent of Christ: Isa 26:19But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21 See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer. __________________________________________________________________ Jesus in the Temple The one place connected to God from the time of Jacob’s ladder, the place where possibly Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac and the ram was provided by God, Mount Moriah: the Temple Mount – that place where God could be accessed once a year to the ancient Israelites; the place where God will make His home on the earth during the Millennium – was used to erect the worst abomination of all time: the talking image of the anti-Christ. This great sin is the tripwire for God’s response, allowed to go on through the Great Tribulation to reduce the Elect to just a few (a remnant in themselves), will finally be answered on the second half of the Day of the Lord when God’s Wrath comes. In a companion to the verse given in Jacob’s Trouble, Zephaniah remarks upon how the Lord will take revenge for the evil done upon His people: ZEP 1:12At that time I will search Jerusalem with lamps and punish those who are complacent, who are like wine left on its dregs, who think, `The LORD will do nothing, either good or bad.' The aspect of searching Jerusalem “with lamps” is interesting. The prophet does not indicate how this will be done. Lamps bring light into the darkness, but the manner in how God will expose those to the light of His truth is not said, but a clue here is in their complacency. The Lord in prophecy acts in two battles which occur on the Day of the Lord: one around Jerusalem when it is invaded by the Lord and the other in the “Valley of Decision”. The first battle is Jerusalem, and taking it has its prize: the Temple. The picture of a conquering Lord in the Temple is presented in Ezekiel chapter 9. Eze 9:1Then I heard him call out in a loud voice, "Bring near those who are appointed to execute judgment on the city, each with a weapon in his hand." 2And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar. 3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it." 5As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple. 7Then he said to them, "Defile the temple and fill the courts with the slain. Go!" So they went out and began killing throughout the city. 8While they were killing and I was left alone, I fell facedown, crying out, "Alas, Sovereign Lord! Are you going to destroy the entire remnant of Israel in this outpouring of your wrath on Jerusalem?" 9He answered me, "The sin of the people of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great; the land is full of bloodshed and the city is full of injustice. They say, 'The Lord has forsaken the land; the Lord does not see. ' 10So I will not look on them with pity or spare them, but I will bring down on their own heads what they have done." 11Then the man in linen with the writing kit at his side brought back word, saying, "I have done as you commanded." Jesus does not gather the Jews on the Day of the Lord. He kills those who do not lament what has been going on: the abomination of desolation and the Great Tribulation. He sends those Jews as He determines into the wilderness for the second half of the one 'seven'. These join those in Judea who flee at the midpoint. Some more will survive in Jerusalem after the Great Earthquake - but only a Remnant of the Jews survive to see the Millennium Rule of Christ Jesus. -
Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?
Marcus O'Reillius replied to Revelation Man's topic in Eschatology
That's the Rapture. Trinity isn't in the Bible either... so if you're going to go on your strict, ultra-literal word test: who isn't God? Jesus? Or the Holy Spirit? -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Saying John 7:34 means we allowed to go to Heaven is an incorrect statement along the same lines as John 3:13. “You will seek Me, and will not find Me; and where I am, you cannot come.” We cannot come to Heaven - on our own power. The verb: erchomai is in the active voice. That means the person - you in the plural - is doing the action. Jesus is saying we do not have the means to go to Heaven: We are not able to come. Do you know anyone who has decided to "go" to Heaven? How is he going to do it? It's impossible. We cannot do it. And that's all Jesus is saying. And the Greek backs it up. The active voice says the person - you in the plural - are not able (οὐ δύνασθε) to come (ἐλθεῖν) to Heaven. It says absolutely NOTHING about being taken to Heaven. In that case, we are not the actors doing the taking - Jesus is. "Allowed" would be "may not" too... That's the difference between "may" and "can". One is permission - the other is ability. In John 7:34, Jesus is saying we are not able to go. That is why "cannot" is used. It says absolutely NOTHING about not being allowed to go to Heaven. Jesus takes us to Heaven. We have no ability to take ourselves there. We are allowed to be there - the Great Multitude is IN HEAVEN in Rev 7:9-17. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
1. We are taken to the "barn" of Heaven when we "receive our inheritance" - paralambamo - i.e. "taken" in Luke 17:33-36. 2. We are seen IN HEAVEN, before the Father in Rev 7:9-17. We are heard IN HEAVEN in Revelation 19:1-3 as Jesus goes out to fight the final battle at Armageddon. 3. The Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation as told by an Elder. This fits with what Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse for when the Elect, who remain and are still alive as Paul wrote, are gathered up. This Great Multitude of Saints, both resurrected souls and raptured people, arrive IN HEAVEN BEFORE the first Trumpet of God's Wrath sounds. 4. In a parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11 - in the detailed parallel account of Revelation chapters 13-16: The Harvest happens with Jesus on the clouds. Immediately AFTER that - two Angels administer God's Wrath of blood and fire - just like the first Trumpet. This is also just as proscribed on the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament for Israel: blood, fire and smoke (Joel 2:31). (Mountains smoke too on the Day of the Lord - Ps 104:32; 144:5. This could be volcanic eruptions.) (For America, just imagine if the Yellowstone caldera erupts. Imagine Mt. St. Helens times 1000.) 5. Even if you place the removal of the God's Elect at the end of the one 'seven' (classical Post-Trib) - The earth is ruined. Water is not to be found. War has destroyed city and farms. Food is scarce if found at all. And Israel is not immune from this destruction! - To put billions of people in a desert region which is the focus of war and God's Wrath defies logical sense. It is not fit for God's Bride: the Church. He does not rescue us from the Wrath to come only to set us down in it. What husband puts his wife is a wasteland for a honeymoon? God is wiser than that. There is no legitimate, exegetical interpretation putting the Church in the Millennium on the earth. Those verses address the harlot wife who must be brought to heel: Israel. The Millennium is structured so that all of Israel will be saved: because right now they reject their Lord, and the Lord has not forgotten His Promises to save them. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Zechariah spoke of the end-times quite often. God gave him many visions. We can see how God's Plan works out for the people Zechariah is speaking to: natural Israelites. Zechariah did not see the Church however. That mystery of God's Plan was not shown to him. In chapter 8, we can see the aftermath of the one 'seven' with all the desolations God has decreed (Dan 9:26) having eliminated man from the earth (Isa 13:12). Jesus will become the mountain of the world (Dan 2:35). This is a literal occurrence as well after the Great Earthquake rearranges the topography of the earth so that there are no other mountains, mountain ranges, or islands. (Rev 16:20) This sets up new weather patterns so that rain is not dumped with mechanical lifting over mountains which then forms set rain forests and deserts. In the Millennium, rainfall will be dependent upon obedient worship: Zec 14:17-18. Jesus will make Himself known to the Remnant Jews who escape the Northern invasion of the anti-Christ. (Mt 24:16-20). These will be sheltered during the second half of the one 'seven' by God (Rev 12:6 & 12:14-16). On the Day of the Lord which is when Jacob's Troubles begin (Zec 12:2) more will escape: (Zec 14:5). Some will even survive the whole of the one 'seven' in Jerusalem: Rev 11:13, and for the first time in all of God's desolations, they praise the Lord. But there are also outlying Jews around the world. While two-thirds of them will die (Zec 13:9) - some survive. This is the Remnant. Zechariah 8 is also about that Remnant. Zec 8:11 But now I will not treat the remnant of this people as in the former days,' declares the Lord of hosts. 12 'For there will be peace for the seed:the vine will yield its fruit, the land will yield its produce and the heavens will give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to inherit all these things. 13 It will come about that just as you were a curse among the nations, O house of Judah and house of Israel, so I will save you that you may become a blessing. Do not fear; let your hands be strong. ' This is not talking about the Church - which ministers have long preached was not in the Old Testament - but there is a reference in Hosea 6:1-2 which hints at the Church Age... No. The Prophets are speaking to God's people: the Jews, natural borne Israel. This chapter is no different. And in the end, the Jews will lead the Meek, who also survive the one 'seven' - back to God at Mount Zion. Zec 8:20 "Thus says the Lord of hosts, ' It will yet be that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities. 21 The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, "Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts; I will also go." 22 So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the Lord. ' 23 Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'" In all the times that God has shown Himself through the Israelites to the nations, they never came to Him. Now after the world-wide desolations He has decreed have nearly wiped the earth of man, they come to Him. There is a sojourn to Mount Zion allowed in the Bible. There are two sets of days in Daniel 12 between the one 'seven' and the Millennium: the 30 and 45 day periods. One could well be for travel; the other for the "encampment." Remember: the earth is inhospitable after the desolations God has decreed. It is not a fit place to live right now, and the survivors are ragged (Isa 4:1-6). This fate is not for us. We will be rescued before the first Trumpet sounds. We will not endure the terrible day of God's Wrath. We are rescued before God's Wrath falls. We will reign with Christ. And you need not live upon the land you reign. Jerusalem is only a camp for us, (Rev 20:9); it is not our home. Ezekiel's visions have no place set aside for immortal and imperishable people living beside mortal, perishable people. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Replacement Theology would say everything to natural Israel is meant for the spiritual Israel of the Church. This, however, is written to Israel proper in that time period: the northern tribes. 11 And the Lord said to me, " Faithless Israel has proved herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north and say, ' Return, faithless Israel,' declares the Lord; ' I will not look upon you in anger. For I am gracious,' declares the Lord; 'I will not be angry forever. 13 'Only acknowledge your iniquity, That you have transgressed against the Lord your God And have scattered your favors to the strangers under every green tree, And you have not obeyed My voice,' declares the Lord. 14 'Return, O faithless sons,' declares the Lord; 'For I am a master to you, And I will take you one from a city and two from a family, And I will bring you to Zion. ' -NASB ba'al, has two meanings: to be master; hence, to marry:—have dominion (over), be husband In the context of one: the words are addressed in poetic fashion to the ten tribes (and not the spiritual Israel of Paul's fashion in Romans) And His anger at their iniquity - And because of the fact that they have not obeyed His voice - - is it a marriage relationship or a master relationship with which the Lord is setting up from which they will be united? The NASB, does not take the marriage definition within this context, and as the best word-for-word translation we can get: they use master. I agree. There is no basis for translating the ten tribes to the spiritual Israel of the Church or Elect. There is a basis, however, in a progressive dispensational model; for the Remnant Jews to be brought to the center of the world at Jerusalem to be re-united with the Lord. -
Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?
Marcus O'Reillius replied to Revelation Man's topic in Eschatology
It's not about "feeling." It's about language. Of course they don't. They don't go from the Greek to the Latin to the English. They go from the Greek to the English. harpazo means to gather. to gather in the Latin is rapio. When earlier Christians centuries past heard the Bible read from the pulpit, they heard it read in Latin. And thus we have the word: Rapture as their understanding of what was read. Silly girl... -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
John 3:13 and the Rapture to Heaven. CHAPTER 3 The New Birth 1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, " Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." 9 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?" 10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." Does the statement setting up in the negation of it by Jesus’ First Advent preclude any future ascension? Does Jesus’ statement as a standalone constitute an internal inconsistency with Enoch and Elijah? As to the first question, a topical reading would not disallow any future ascension even in the English perfect tense. Indeed, Christ Jesus will ascend into Heaven as He told Mary on the day of His Resurrection, putting His meeting with the Father as something yet to have occurred, and later, the final ascension of Jesus from the Mount of Olives in Acts 1:11. Those that try to use this verse so as to say no entry to Heaven will ever be allowed are misusing the language. Even the Greek perfect tense allows a future possibility because it starts with a completed past action of having already ascended. · Perfect Tense: The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action. By Corey Keating at www.ntgreek.org The whole point of verse 13 is to shake Nicodemus’ foundation for Jesus’ witness of the earthly things He has borne witness which leads Nicodemus to believe God is with Him. Overall, He is presenting Nicodemus, member of the Pharisees ordinarily opposed to His Teaching. with statements which show the schism between their two world views. This Jesus does with His opening statement which leaves Nicodemus wondering. Jesus scoffs at his bewilderment by questioning his role as a rabbi to understand these things and further gets to the point of “our” witness – which again focuses on the indwelling Holy Spirit as a second witness that indeed God is with Him. This satisfies the legal requirement with Judaism for witness so as to establish truth. The whole point of the miracles Jesus performs is to establish His Witness as truth because God is involved. Miracles then provide the foundation for the truth of Jesus’ Ministry: to come to the Father through Him summed up in John 3:16. In itself, verse 13 can be misconstrued. Again, Jesus is making the case for witness before He gets to the critical statement for faith in Him. The ascension is required and married to the descent in order to provide a witness. In the perfect tense, this has never been accomplished except for the Son of Man – and is pointedly a prerequisite in order to provide a witness of “heavenly things”. Since Jesus has precluded providing any witness of heavenly things when they will not believe the earthly things He has already addressed. Furthermore, uses the negation that anyone else has gone up to Heaven to provide such witness with the implication that He alone can provide that witness having descended from Heaven. Jesus establishes His authority to tell Nicodemus of “heavenly things” because He alone has come from Heaven. This Jesus has already precluded because the point of His Ministry was not to tell them of Heaven, but to lead them to Heaven. Now in the case question: • Does Jesus’ statement as a standalone constitute an internal inconsistency with Enoch and Elijah? As a standalone statement in the English, a poor student of the Bible could say that even Enoch and Elijah never went to Heaven even when they could not be found anymore on this earth. However, the answer is: No, because of the added information John has written into the Greek which conveys what Jesus said. The verb ‘ascend’ is in the active voice. · Active Voice: Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is executing the action, then the verb is referred to as being in the active voice. By Corey Keating at www.ntgreek.org This nuance of the Greek delineates the action and specifies that the man desiring to go to Heaven must have the power to do so on his own ability. Jesus said specifically that no one has the ability to go to Heaven in the first place. This is an important distinction when anyone want to make a definitive statement precluding any future movement to Heaven. When God translates a man to Heaven, as He did with Enoch, Elijah, and even with a literal reading of Ezekiel’s heavenly visions, that man is the recipient of the action. This is not precluded by what Jesus said. Jesus did not say that no man could ever be translated from the earthly realm to the heavenly realm by God. Jesus said that no man has the power to do so on his own accord. So there is no internal inconsistency to the Bible by John 3:13 as some who teach Replacement Theology with the deliverance of the people of the First Resurrection to the physical land of Israel in this world. Their use of this verse manifests a lack of understanding rivaling Nicodemus’ and a flagrant deception on their part by misusing a verse. Not only are such people taking a single verse out of context, they are ignoring the meaning John uses to convey what exactly is being said. John 3:13 does not preclude a future removal of people to Heaven. John 3:13 does not constitute an internal inconsistency in the Bible. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Ezekiel 37 is not said in the context of what happens on the Day of the Lord. There is no indication for that. Indeed, the indication given in the context of this chapter is set up previously in God telling the natural branches of the olive tree which is Israel (the people) what He will do AFTER the Day of the Lord. Ezekiel 36:22 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord God, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23 I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord," declares the Lord God, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28 You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. First: this is given to the house of Israel: not the spiritual Israel that Paul alludes to. Second: the nations will know by proof that Jesus is Lord. Third: they are all in the Promised Land. Fourth: they will have a new heart, and a new spirit. Such a thing has not yet happened with the formation of the modern nation of Israel. In that context, Ezekiel is set in a valley of bones in the aftermath of the Armageddon and the whole of the one 'seven'. Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and He brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2 He caused me to pass among them round about, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley; and lo, they were very dry. NOTICE: 1. The ones being resurrected are NOT alive. That IS a condition of 1Th 4:17. 2. The ones being resurrected are NOT in Paradise. This is the valley, not the afterlife. Now let's put your pull quote within context of the promise God made in chapter 36. Eze 37:11 Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off. ' 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. 14 I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it," declares the Lord. '" Ezekiel 37 happens after God has not only proved who He is - which is not a current condition whereby we come to Him by faith, but this is proof: every eye will see Him - AND He removes the Jews out of the nations to Israel. They had been cut off: they were not faithful. They are not all in Israel. They will have His Spirit put in them just as God said in chapter 36. This happens in Zechariah 8:23 Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'" The reason there is a 30 and 45 day period of Daniel 12 between the second half of the one 'seven' (1260 days) and the Millennium (which happens after 1335 days) is for the sojourn and subsequent Sukkot encampment at Mount Zion before the Millennium Reign of Christ Jesus dictated in Zechariah 8:3. Those who lived before - WILL - live again: Ezekiel 44:10 But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. 11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister to them. 12 Because they ministered to them before their idols and became a stumbling block of iniquity to the house of Israel, therefore I have sworn against them," declares the Lord God, "that they shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. 13 And they shall not come near to Me to serve as a priest to Me, nor come near to any of My holy things, to the things that are most holy; but they will bear their shame and their abominations which they have committed. 14 Yet I will appoint them to keep charge of the house, of all its service and of all that shall be done in it. and on the other hand: 15 "But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood," declares the Lord God. 16 "They shall enter My sanctuary; they shall come near to My table to minister to Me and keep My charge. Both good and bad Levitical Priests - who lived before when Israel went astray - which happened a long time ago - have differing jobs based on their works before. NOW - with Jesus in His Sanctuary - as He said in Zechariah 8:3 that He would be in Jerusalem - AND - in the context of the Millennium Temple and the sacrificial worship system designed for the Jews - We find people who had lived before, living again in this future time when God is among them: Immanuel. This does not violate Hebrews 9:27. That rule is for this present age: we who have knowledge of Jesus have but one chance to get it right. But in the Millennium, when Jesus is a present reality in this world: salvation cannot come by faith when He can be proved. And so the rules for salvation change outside of the Church Age - - which comes to end with the Rapture. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
I've given you the Scripture you demanded of missmuffet, and so defended her - and there are TWO resurrections to Heaven. (There is a third resurrection in Ezekiel, but that is for the Jews who lived before, to live again on this earth.) -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
The First Resurrection is only for the spiritually “Living” and includes some who are living bodily on the Earth. The Second Resurrection includes both spiritually Living from the Millennium and all the spiritually Dead from all time, who, as classes of people, are both all deceased at that point in time. Joining the Sheep to the Elect fulfills Paul’s promise that God has not forgotten Israel but will save all of them after the full number of the Gentiles have come in. While the Elect include nearly all who are Living at the first Resurrection (except for the Remnant and the meek who go into the Millennium); the Sheep will be added to Elect in Heaven after the Millennium. So not all who belong to the Living are yet included in the first Resurrection because some of them haven’t been born. There are important distinctions made during the Millennium Reign of Christ which substantially alters the rules for entry into eternal Life. The reason presented within this commentary is that the Millennium is for unbelieving Israel: the Jews, to be ultimately reunited with Christ, whom they rejected before. Without Revelation, interpreting Daniel, Matthew and John as indicating two Resurrections a thousand years apart would be impossible. With the book of Revelation, however, seeing the differences in what is promised with the fullness of the Gentiles coming in before Israel is saved, then illuminates how some will “come to everlasting life” as Daniel puts it; that others will be like Sheep like Matthew has it, or “those who have done good” (as opposed to faith-based salvation) being an examination of their deeds. Thus the Bible is consistent in presenting in sequence linear order, two resurrections from the grave unto Life in Heaven. It always lays them out as first for the Living, or righteous, and the second being inclusive of both Living and Dead as in righteous and wicked – which then have to be separated. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Matthew 25 shows both "Living" and "Dead" being before the throne. This is much like the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation. This is also where the "bad fish" are thrown out. Matthew 25 does not show those saved on the Day of the Lord on the earth for the Millennium Reign of Christ Jesus. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
First Resurrection Just the Living Second Resurrection Living and Dead 1. Daniel 12:1 But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered. Dan 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 2. 3. Mt 13:24-30 "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' 28"'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' 29"'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn. '" Mt 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Mt 13:47-50 "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mt 25:32-33; 46 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. …Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." 4. John 5:25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. John 5:28-29 Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 5. Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. Revelation 14:1; 4 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads… They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. Revelation 20:4-5 And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:11-12; 15 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. …If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Five Times the Bible Presents Two Resurrections There are five times where two resurrections are mentioned in the Bible. The order of sequence is always the same; first for only the “Living,” then for both “Living and Dead.” The Bible can jump from one Resurrection to another in one-two fashion without mentioning the intervening time, as three of the four do, because of the nature of “gaps” in the Bible. The Resurrections represent the bookends of the Millennium. Jesus can go from one to the other and thus span a thousand years without mentioning them. An omission of a fact is not a commission of an error. “Living” is used as Jesus uses the term here: Mt 22:32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Here, Jesus is speaking of people who have died, yet calls them “living.” “Living,” being capitalized, then refers to the spiritually living component of the Righteous. Using this analogy of life, much the Gospel accounts say Jesus is the “Son of the living God,” the corollary would be the “Dead” being synonymous with the Wicked. Thus, word interplay remains between the words: “living” and “dead,” which the reader will have to discern in Scripture such as can be found in Jn 5:25. Likewise in trying to pin down a time, when a prophet like Zechariah says, ‘there will be a day,’ or when Jesus says, ‘a time is coming;’ tells us nothing of when it comes: only that it will be. It is up to the reader to understand that an intervening time between days or times can exist, and that also those events enumerated by such prophets or Jesus need not occur on the same day. Imparting crucial tidbits of knowledge in this manner, Jesus acts in a manner consistent with the prophecy in Isaiah that the people would hear but not understand. Just as Daniel understood the desolation of Israel would last seventy years in Daniel 9:2 before Gabriel came to him to lay out the crucial aspect of the seventy ‘sevens;’ God hides His Plan within Scripture for those who seek Him. Using a sequence of events approach with the tools of prophecy which are demonstrated in Scripture, allows the seeker to see what has lain in plain sight but has been glossed over in so many readings. That the subsequent second Resurrection has any who are spiritually alive at all is due to the Millennium period. Some will live righteous lives during this period of Christ’s rule on the Earth over the nations. Those righteous people living and dying after the Rapture and during the future thousand year period require a second Resurrection where they can join the Elect. The gap from one resurrection to the other returns this commentary to the tools of interpretation. The Bible allows for this transition because both are essentially the same, bracketing the Millennium and being bridged by the Rule of Christ. Their origin is from a speaker knowledgeable in God’s plan: Jesus. In Daniel, He is the Man in Linen, in the Gospels, Jesus speaks in the first person and in Revelation; He reveals it to John. -
QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4
Marcus O'Reillius replied to WailingWall's topic in Eschatology
Jesus indicates twice in the Gospels that our place will be in Heaven upon His Return. Mt 13:24-31 "...but gather the wheat into my barn." John 14:3 1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going." 5 Thomas *said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" 6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. The correlations between the Olivet Discourse & the sixth Seal of Revelation: 1. Corresponding to the sun/moon/star event preceding the Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31): Mt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Rev 6:12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 2. Second correlation: the splitting of the sky as the "sign" of the Son of Man: Rev 6:14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Mt 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 3. Third correlation the gathering of the Elect (those who are "remain" (are still alive after the Great Tribulation) and are left (upon the earth) from 1Th 4:17 ~ is the presentation as foretold in John 14:5 of the Great Multitude before the Father: 31 And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, " Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." ~ 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" 14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. Notice too, that the Great Multitude show up in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation from which the Elect, those who remain and are still alive for the Rapture, are gathered. This confirms the equivalence of the Great Multitude to the Church - whose sin is washed away by the Blood of Jesus. Jesus reveals to John that He will take us to the Father, in Heaven, and IN His Temple. Thus completing the third time that Jesus is said to "save" us - when we are resurrected from the grave and those surviving the shortened Great Tribulation are raptured to the "barn" of Heaven. -
Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?
Marcus O'Reillius replied to Revelation Man's topic in Eschatology
As to the rest of your points, I have no real problem as they are basically good summations of Scripture, and for the most part, with the noted exceptions above, I even think you have them sequenced in their proper, eschatological, sequence order. -
Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?
Marcus O'Reillius replied to Revelation Man's topic in Eschatology
Again, "re-formed" would be your interpretation. "passed away": aperchomai as used in the Bible means: to go away, depart, to go away in order to follow any one, go after him, to follow his party, follow him as a leader, to go away, of departing evils and sufferings, of good things taken away from one, of an evanescent state of things. Changing the meaning of the words in Scripture to support your eschatology is something we should not do. If we have to change the Bible to fit our eschatology: we are in error. If our eschatology does not match what is in the Bible, we should change what we think ~ and not re-form Scripture to suit our own ends.