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Revelation Man

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  1. They are only called a Fourth Beast, AND then the Little Horn who arises out of the Fourth Beast. So God, giving us riddles that we can't figure out until the end times {which seemed to be His desire} gives us riddles we can only unravel when the end times are upon us {now} where we can see the whole jigsaw almost complete. The last Beast is a Man. Daniel 7:11 tells us that, the BEASTS BODY is destroyed and cast into hell. Rev. 19:20 tells us the Beast is cast into hell. Rev. 17 REDUCES the Beast Kingdoms {not many see this} to Kings who have FALLEN. The whole reason God does this is to show us there are 7 Mountains {Rulers who ARISE} and 7 Kings who FALL.............He wants us to know the last Beast is a MAN........Who is the ONLY BEAST of all 7 who both ARISES & FALLS as the Beast, thus he never passes his Kingdom on, thus its not a Kingdom but a MAN/Beast or the Little Horn. The Beasts of Daniel, the Beast of Rev. 12, 13 and 17 are ALL THE SAME, its just who is being pointed out as the Power over these areas that are different. In Rev. 12 Satan is SPOTLIGHTED, as a Power over this region, in that he is over every region on earth, remember Luke 4 ? He told Jesus ALL THESE Kingdoms have been given unto me to do as I will with !! So he is the head, thus the Crowns are on the 7 Heads but that is just the Mediterranean Sea Region, hes over all areas on earth, but the Beast is all about the Mediterranean Sea Region. The Rev. 13 Beast is the Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast, he is over the 10 Kings he arises amongst in Daniel. That is why its just 10 Horns that is mentioned in Rev. 13, the Little Horn is one of the 7 Heads, the Last Beast Head. Thus the Crowns are on the 10 Horns/Kings. Its the same Beast, its Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome AND the Little Horn and his 10 Kings. Its never changed. We are not told of Egypt and Assyria either as per being "NUMBERED" in Daniel, and the Little Horn is not given a number either, but he is the Last Beast who arises with 10 Kings, hes called the 7th Beast Head in Revelation, we know that because the 11th Little Horn is NEVER MENTIONED but he is stated as being of the 7 Heads and 10 Kings so he has to be the 7th Head !! Thus his Crowns are on the 7 Heads. Apollyon was cast into hell during the Church Age, but he will not be released until the 1st Woe. I put this on another site recently, it seems to help me explain who the Little Horn is and why he is said to ARISE out of the Fourth Beast. An AGREEMENT between Europe and the MANY that make up the Mediterranean Sea Region that Europe currently doesn't own. This is the Fourth Beast below {Roman Empire} This is the current European Union Below: This BELOW will be the E.U. once they have Conquered THE MANY they currently have 7 year Agreements with via the European Neighborhood Policy {ENP}. It now looks like a "CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK" doesn't it ? Like a mans son who looks identical to his father !! Thus the Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast, it doesn't mean he arises from Rome, or Europe per se as I once though it meant, it means it looks EXACTLY LIKE the Fourth Beast looked, but the Little Horn himself is born in Greece {which is in the E.U. of course}. If the Land Mass of the Anti-Christ/Little Horn would have looked EXACTLY LIKE the 2nd Beast the Little Horn would have been said to have arisen out of the 2nd Beast, not the Fourth Beast !! The Little Horn Beast is a MAN that is why Daniel 7:11 says his BODY is DESTROYED and the BEAST is then CAST into HELL. The European Union with the MANY added in. Notice how the Fourth Beast suddenly has a "SON" that looks just like "him" at the bottom ? God is so intelligent we can't comprehend His riddles, but He chooses to reveal them to foolish men who humble themselves before the Almighty God. {Especially in these end times}. The Pharisees were too learned to hear the gems of Jesus. The Disciples heard and understood. How much from God do we miss for the NOISES ? There were two Mary's at a certain feast, one attended the people and Jesus, slaving to serve them, she asked why the other Mary wasn't helping and Jesus basically told her this, Mary {#2} has chosen that GOOD THING, to listen or to hear what Jesus was saying. Let us not miss what God is telling us. I missed them for far too many years, its time for us to hear what God is telling us. The last days are upon us, it a matter of years, not Centuries. I think the Last Beast is a MAN......He arises out of the Fourth Beast means he arises from the E.U. and that Kingdom is HIS TYPE just like Antiochus is his TYPE just like Jason is the False Prophets TYPE. We are given these clues to make it obvious for us in these end times. OK this fixed my pics, how that Auburn joke pic got in there I have no clue, I guess I clicked on the wrong pic.
  2. How do I edit this out ? Good Grief I was clicking on the Roman Empire Map and instead clicked this LOL.
  3. I agree it is a Demon.........his name is Apollyon. He was over all the Beasts of the Mediterranean Sea Region. That's why Jews called him the Destroyer, it seems his A-1 job was to Destroy Israel/Jews. I don' think he is the Fourth Beast however, that was Rome. Just like Satan is a Beast/Dragon Power he is not one of the heads, he is OVER the 7 Heads thus the Crowns in Rev. 12 are on the 7 heads showing he is over every kingdom in this evil world. The Anti-Christ CROWNS are on the 10 Horns/Kings, showing he is one of the Heads but over the 10 Kings which create the last Beast System/Head. Apollyon is an 8th but is of the 7......not of 8 but of 7, he is an 8th signifies he is the King of the Bottomless Pit. That's all. Thus NO CROWNS via this worlds Beast is shown in Rev. 17, hes not over Satan and hes not Human, his only Crown/Kingdom is not of this world, thus no crowns are shown.
  4. They might build the Temple to do just that, they might never get around to it even after they build the temple or they might do it and then stop it, BUT....Here is the more important question, WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Would God's Messenger {Gabriel} be speaking about an end time Sacrifice that God would see as an ABOMINATION !! Have you ever thought about that ? Now lets look at it afresh, with this in mind !! Dan. 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. QUESTION........Why would a Holy God via Gabriel or even Jesus if this was the Man in Linen speaking, who is God, speak about an UNHOLY SACRIFICE ? A Profane End Time Sacrifice ? Pstttt, I don't think that is what it is, I think the Jews Repent BEFORE the Day of the Lord just like Malachi 4:5-6 says, Elijah is sent to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the DOTL. So the Jews repent before the First Seal {DOTL} is opened, and the Sacrifice is taken away, or in other words, the Beast and False Prophet FORBID..........THE SACRIFICE..........which is Jesus Christ, from being worshiped by the Jews who have repented, thus they Flee Judea when they see the AoD. Why do people think God is speaking about a PROFANE SACRIFICE ? He isn't !! The Anti-Christ would be OK with the Profane Sacrifice, he hates Jesus being worshiped by the Jews.
  5. Thanks for the scripture references, that makes it easy for me to go to my Hebrew and in this case Greek study Bible link which has all the root words and a link to Strong's and others, which I use quite frequently. Luke 23:43 And 2532 Iesus 2424 said 2036 z5627 vnto him, 846 Uerily, 281 I say 3004 z5719 vnto thee, 4671 to day 4594 shalt thou be 2071 z5704 with 3326 me 1700 in 1722 Paradise. 3857. #3857 παράδεισος paradeisos {par-ad'-i-sos} of Oriental origin, cf H6508; TDNT - 5:765,777; n m —Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters 2) a garden, pleasure ground 2a) grove, park 3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise { Herein lies the CRUX of the issue, the Jews seemed to think it was an earthly abode in the ground for the pious souls to rest, meanwhile as the BELOW Shows the Christians seemed to think it was a Heavenly abode. Seeing as we arise from the graves to go be with the Lord at the Last Trump, I wonder why that would be the case if we were already in Heaven ? Now I gotta check out the 2 Cor 12 verses} 4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world —Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon) Its the exact same word, the Jews seemed to think it was a part of hades/sheol/the grave/a holding place for pious souls. Paul called it a place in Heaven, maybe its both, maybe where Paul went to is the FUTURE PARADISE where we go to be with the Jesus at but the current Paradise is a holding place on earth, then when Jesus calls we zoom up from the graves to go be with the Lord. That would be my best guess.
  6. Correct, which is why I don't call Paradise Heaven, I think its on earth, all Heavens means the Sky above. So I think Paradise is on earth, those Dead in Christ arise from the graves to go be with the Lord at the rapture. We know the first heaven is our biosphere, we see it spoken of in Genesis 1. God calls it a firmament, the first Heaven he divided the waters from the waters, our atmosphere, or biosphere. In the 2nd Heaven in verse 14 God divided the lights from the darkness [basically the stars started forming at the 400 million year mark}. In the 3rd Heaven it seems to me Paul says Jesus taught him or angels, but he was there in the Spirit, not in person. No man has seen the Throne Room. So I agree with you. I really haven't studied this in depth, but because I wrote an Exegesis on Gen. chapter 1 and how the universe is 13.7 billion years old and the first day lasted 9.2 billion years I had to figure out what all the different Heavens were. I am no expert on it for sure. Are we sure Paradise is the 3rd Heaven ? I'd have to research it, I though paradise was on earth. I wouldn't worry about what others think too much sister. We don't go straight to Heaven, that is FOR SURE, it wouldn't be the only thing I disagree with her on, usually if its too much static I just let it rest. Most of the time they can't shake my scriptures so I lose those in disagreement, all except Iamlamad, he will debate a wall, LOL. We don't go straight to Heaven, Daniel 12 would tell anyone that we sleep until the very end. The Church until the Rapture, then we go marry the Lamb in Heaven, the Jews, who are already married to God arise at the very end, like Daniel 12 says.............. Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. When is the TIME OF TROUBLE ? The 70th week..........so you are correct, of course. The Jews will awake for Judgment at the VERY END. Scriptures don't lie. People just get confused sister. Its all good. God Bless.
  7. Sister the three heavens goes like this. The 1st Heaven is our Atmosphere its a Heaven to the birds, it gives us our rain etc. etc. via an atmospheric bio dome. The 2nd heaven of course is the TOTAL Space in the Universe. The 3rd Heaven is not in this universe, its the Heaven that was there before God created this universe, it is not subject to time/space, thus God can be and is eternal. Now there is more than likely another Heaven that hold the full Glory of God also. But Paul never went to the 3rd Heaven physically, remember he said I know not whether IN BODY or in SPIRIT, all he knew is he was in Heaven, he was there in Spirit, not bodily, our Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven, 1 Cor. 15 48-52 tells us that. John wasn't in heaven either, physically, but Spiritually he was. Paul nor John ever went to Paradise, that is a holing place for the Jews, Jesus told of the gulf between Abraham and some person who had kin who he feared were not in Paradise. Jesus said there is a great gulf. It could be under the earth for all I know, but its not in Heaven. Jesus went into the ground for three days, so if he first day was in Paradise {you will be in Paradise with me THIS DAY} then its probably on earth, Jesus also went to the graves it says to preach unto the Spirits. That may be the exact same thing told in a different way. The Christians all ARISE from our graves, so I assume the Spirits of the Jews stay on earth also.
  8. Daniel is told by Gabriel they will be RAISED UP and stand in their place, when Micheal Stands Up and then the Saints of old will be raised up. Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. The Jews are raised at the end after the Second Coming, they are already married unto God. The Dead in Christ are raised at the Rapture, we who are alive go to be with the Lord at the same time, we lose our sin flesh and go as Spirit Men. We thus Marry the Lamb in Heaven, then return with Jesus. The 144,000 which I say is the 1/3 of the Jews who repent, will be rescued by Jesus, thus it shows them on Mt Zion with Jesus in ch. 14 verse 1, it shows the Rapture in verse 14, which happened earlier of course, and it shows the Wicked Tares in verses 18-20. So we have the Wheat in verse 1, the Tares in verses 18-20 and the Rapture is shown in a sorta Flash Back or Soliloquy of sorts.
  9. Of course I have proof, the scriptures. How long does the Beast rule ? 42 Months. How Long is the Woman {Israel} protected ? 1260 days. How long does Satan CHASE the Woman ? 1260 days. The First Four Seals are Jesus ALLOWING the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering and to Conquer. How long does he Conquer ? 42 months, its basic math. Like wise he brings Wars {takes away peace} for 42 months right ? And he brings Famine for 42 months right ? and he brings Death and Sickness for 42 Months right ? You guys see these Seals as CONSECUTIVE unto each other, they are not, they are all happening CONCURRENTLY with each other. The Martyrs are the testimony of the slain Saints. When are they slain and by who ? Over a 42 month period by the tyrant Beast. We know this from Scriptures. Rev. 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be FULFILLED. {42 MONTHS} Rev. 204 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. So THE MARTYRS of the Great Tribulation Period are Judged AFTER Jesus returns, meaning those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 ARE NOT nor can they be the Great Tribulation {70th week} Saints. These in Rev. 20:4 ARE the Great Tribulation/70th week Saints being judged. They {70th week Saints} live and reign with Christ during the 1000 year reign [ON EARTH]. Jesus clearly tells us in Rev. 6:10 that those Martyrs must WAIT until their brothers have all been killed in LIKE MANNER as them. So those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 ARE INDEED the Church in Heaven. So the Martyrs are killed over a 42 month period in which the Anti-Christ RULES. So when the First 5 Seals are opened, its FUTURE EVENTS which all happen CONCURRENTLY to each other of a 42 month period of time. The 6th Seal is opened on day 1261 also, meaning there are 1260 days of God's Wrath coming to fall on Mankind. Satan and his Demons are the Stars that fall to earth here like UNTIMELY FIGS, they are cast down to earth and he thus CHASES the Woman for 1260 days !! Just like Rev. 12 describes !! So all 6 Seals happen at the exact same time, none are contingent on the others having been completed. They are Seals releasing EVENTS over a 42 month Period. The 7th Seal is a wee bit different in that it allows the 7 Trumps to come forth, but since the 144,000 IMHO are the Jews Fleeing Judea {Woman} and they are protected for 1260 days also, I would appear that all 7 are opened on ONE DAY, day 1261, leaving ALL EVENTS to come to pass over a 1260 day time period of events. The Trumps start the Judgments that are linear to each other. The Trumps Fires of Tress and Grasses are happening WHILE the Beast is murdering people all over the world, the Seals turn to blood WHILE he kills steals and destroys, the Three Woes happen WHILE the Beast is being a tyrant on the earth for 42 months !! You are just not hip to the facts brother. Of course it was the FEAR of the DOTL that they were fretting about.
  10. Not so, it means there is a Rapture of the Church and then a Second Coming where NO ONE actually Departs, they are rescued by Jesus when the Church returns with Jesus. You guys believe the Second Coming is the Departure, I don't, I think its the Second Coming of Jesus, with the Church in tow. A departure is a departure when one departs, not when they return. You seem to conflate the Second Coming with THAT DAY, but its not the same. The dead are raised INCORRUPTIBLE {Means WITHOUT Sin Flesh} or as Spirit men. Back up and read the verses prior to verse 51 for the contextual understanding of this passage. Then one can see what is being referenced, its about the Corrupt Sin Flesh being RAISED as SPIRIT MEN !! 1 Cor. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption {Sin Flesh}; it is raised in incorruption {As Spirit Men, SEE BELOW}: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. So the Dead are RAISED without Sin Flesh as SPIRIT MEN, we go to Heaven where we receive our WHITE ROBES {Heavenly Bodies}. So the WE WILL BE CHANGED portion you cite above means we can't go to Heaven with this Sin Flesh. {Jesus told Mary, Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to the Father ]to offer the Sacrifice}. Her touching with the Sin Flesh would have defiled the offering, thus why would one think our Sin Flesh can enter Heaven, it can't, thus why would we not have to be CHANGED in the TWINKLING of an eye {flash/moment in time} from our SIN FLESH unto the SAME Spirit Men that are raise from the Grave WITHOUT their corrupted Sin Flesh !! So in lay mans terms, we die or in technical terms, we leave our body to go be with the Lord and thus our Flesh Man will die, because the Flesh Man can't live without the Spirit Man. The timing is the issue, it seems, but the clues are all around us. In Rev, 19 we go marry the Lamb in Heaven, then return with Christ for the Marriage Supper which is Armageddon, where we defeat the Beast who is STILL ON EARTH. Rev. 4 and 5 shows the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened and Rev. 7:9-16 shows the Church in Heaven AFTER the Seals are opened, save the 7th Seal which is technically the 7 Trumps. The Jewish Marriage is 7 days in the fathers house {we live in the Fathers Mansion for 7 years. Our mission on earth is complete in Matt. 24:14, when we take the Gospel unto the ends of the earth. A portion of my BLOG on this subject.......... Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.” The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13). This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.” They were as follows: 1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384) 2.The Tyndale Bible (1526) 3. The Coverdale Bible (1535) 4. The Cranmer Bible (1539) 5. The Great Bible (1540) 6. The Beeches Bible (1576) 7. The Geneva Bible (1608) Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism. One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary: Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church. In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.” ======================================================================================================== Its used as a a verb form here, DEPARTING from the Earth, not Departing from the Faith, so your point above is just not a valid case brother. What someone has told you are led you to believe is that whenever its about DEPARTING from the Faith it can't be about a Rapture and its only used in thus and thus manner this many times. Men sure are tricky at times. But its clearly used in verb form a number of times, and most of the times its about DEPARTING from something, as it is in this case, we DEPART from the Earth, its a verb, an ACTION. Men say all sorta things that fall short, men have AGENDAS, God just gives us His truths. People, for some reason, want so bad for the Church to go through the 70th week, and we are not going to be here, that is just not the case brother. The Subject is actually about why the Thessalonians should not EVER Fear being in the Day of the Lord AND that is because the Gathering HAPPENS BEFORE the Man of Sin OR the DOTL can come upon us. So in essence its about the Gathering unto the Lord who comes and calls us unto him from the Clouds above, BEFORE the Wrath of God starts. Jesus and the Church return together, reading Rev. 19 tells us that. This is an easy read IMHO brother, it clearly means that the Church will depart BEFORE the DOTL comes upon mankind. Else if Paul had been teaching them they WERE INDEED going to go through God's Wrath why would the Thessalonians have been fretting ? They would have expected to go through the DOTL. Pre Trib is an easy read, and understanding. The Church is SEEN in Rev. 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened and in Rev 7 AFTER the seals are opened. We are seen in Rev. 19, in Heaven BEFORE the Battle of Armageddon. Its not a rebellion, its a Departure, just like the word gay to mean still means happy to me. I could care less what men think, the RCC put these passages in the word as if they were meant to be Thus saith the Lord, they were never intended by Paul to be thus saith the Lord or he wouldn't have left so much if the communications out. He was clearly just writing letters where he knew the Churches and him spoke on issues thus he would say, you remember when I was yet with you I told you these things, thus we don't get the full gist of what Paul was implying in many cases. This means Departure, you think it means Rebellion from the Faith, Paul could have easily clarified by naming what he was speaking of more precisely, if he thought his letters were going to be Canonized. He could have mentioned more precisely what it was that was RESTRAINING the Man of Sin from coming forth. When you only have one side of the conversation, and in letters we get limited instruction, it was NEVER MEANT to be thus saith the Lord, else Paul would have not have left us hanging, where Satan can twist the facts. Its meant to teach us interactions between the Leaders and the early Churches. God gave Paul the chore of reaching the Gentiles, he did that. That's what these Letters are all about, of course we can learn from them, but we can learn from letters written by 17th century Preachers also and by letters from Martin Luther.. It seems some people can figure it out, even though the Puzzle has pieces missing, and some can't quite get it. I can see the picture. I learned how to use the full word of God to make the puzzles seem full. But I would rather have the full correspondence of course. Now I see again you guys reasoning, but you have THAT DAY that is being spoken of conflated with the Second Coming. THAT DAY being spoken of is the Day of the Lord God's Wrath which is what the Thessalonians were fearing. That starts with the FIRST SEAL being opened which is the Anti-Christ going forth, which is God's Wrath, because the Seals are the Lambs Wrath, thus the DOTL. THAT DAY is not the Second Coming brother. There is a caveat you are missing. Why wasn't Abraham and Noah just TAKEN OUT of this World instead of being protected in this world by God ? Because the Jews still had to birth the SEED that was to be the Redeemer Jesus, of course. And likewise the Churches mission on earth is to preach the Gospel unto all the world, THEN THE END will come. We overcome the world by our blood, but once that Mission is finished, there is NO NEED for the Church to remain on earth. So why would we remain ? Jesus to be killed by a tyrant ? The Two-witnesses come to get the Jews to repent and an ANGEL proclaims the Gospel unto the whole world. And by the way, those 100,000 that die, are going to be EXACTLY like those of us who remain until the Rapture, WE DIE ALSO, when the Spirit Man leaves the Flesh Man. Not as Martyrs, but we die never the less. Once our mission is complete, the Church is outta here. Read verse 8 again........8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So she is indeed the Saints. Rev. 12:17 DESCRIBES the Remnant Church. The 144,000 are the 1/3 of the Jewish Saints who Repent {Zechariah 13:8-9}. The Jews are PROTECTED, the Gentiles who tarried must either be smart enough to make it to Petra or they will be killed for their Faith all because they TARRIED.
  11. I am not counting Catholics who may or not believe in the Church teachings, many of them believe in abortion against the hierarchy's wishes, so I am just counting the Churches in the United States, most believe in a pre trib Rapture, imho, but it just may be my region. I don't count the kook sects. From my perspective in the south most all of the Churches understand the pre trib rapture. Its not even debatable really, I kind of get frustrated with elder Christians who can't get this right. They lead others down the wrong path on this subject, and it becomes almost impossible to understand eschatology until one understands the Raptures timing. There is no way one can understand the chronology of the book of Revelation until one gets the Pre Trib Rapture right. I guess I shouldn't care, I have splints in my chest, Diabetes, I just had my prostrate taken out with a part of my bladder and my 12 year old dog couldn't breath for like 3 minutes tonight and was falling down. So I should just let it pass, but it grates on me to see this happening. But I guess I should understand, Satan desires to confuse us on whats coming, so hes doing what he does best, spreading untruths to keep us in the dark on things, nothings really changed. I don't know if it helped {I don't want to say Good hears these kind of prayers as a certainty} but I thought I was going to have to take our dog to an Emergency Vet tonight, a 1200-1500 dollar rip off because of the late night attack. I prayed for him and in a few minutes he went from not being able to walk for 5 minutes, to running outside. Back in the early 90's my mom had cancer {they told us it was like 95 percent sure} and it was a recurrence from the 70's. I prayed in my bedroom till I felt virtue leave my body, {that's hard to explain brother, you just know it when it happens} so I went to the hospital feeling "HIGH" like we get when the Holy Spirit infills us, and with 100 percent confidence my mom had no cancer {it was benign}, my 7 brothers and sisters were all fretting and real nervous, crying etc. etc. and I was very happy and upbeat, they were like why are you not worried, I said because she has no cancer. I knew, that I knew, that I knew she was cancer free. I really wouldn't say if God would heal a pet, I have no idea, but I prayed anyway and he went from not being able to walk for 5 minutes, to running. I am happy tonight, that I am alive and my buddy is alive Brother you are a good friend, as are all my brothers on here. Some think I am bossy, I try not to be, but I ain't moving off what the Lord says. Now that which He hasn't given me anything on, we can all debate that, but when given something, I am just not moving, LOL. God has given me things I can't believe Hes given me lately, its like the book of Revelation, Daniel etc. has just been shown to me with such clarity. It makes me think the Rapture is very near brother. God Bless.
  12. No, most Christians you know seem to not understand the timing, but most of Christendom understands the pre trib rapture. I venture to say on these Message boards you get a huge uptick to this line of thinking, and that might be the reason for your perception being off kilter as per the measurement. And tghe pre trib is right, according to the bible, not men. You can't overcome those facts, I understand that.
  13. The far vast majority of Christendom hold to pre trib brother. I don't even get why its a difficult issue for some tbh, its not difficult. We see the Church in Heaven in chapters 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened and in Rev. 7:9-16 after the Seals are opened. All 6 of the Seals are opened at the exact same time, they release the Beast to go forth for 42 months Conquering, Waring, brings Famine and Killing, thus Seal number 5 are a 42 month testimony of the Martyrs and Seal number 6 is God Announcing His Wrath has come and that Satan has been cast down to earth as untimely figs. The Beast rules 42 Months, the Woman Flee 42 Months and Satan chases her 42 Months. Its all 1260 days, not 1259 or 1100 days. Satan is cast down on the Same day God allows the Beast to go forth. The difference between the Seals and the Trumps/Vials is God RELEASES the Seals which cover a 42 Month period of time, whereas the Trumps and Vials happen as they are Sounded or poured out. As a matter of fact, the 7th Seal releases the 7 Trumps, and the 7th Trump brings the 7 Vials, so you can say ALL of God's Wrath are RELEASED with the 7 Seals, and then the Trumps and Vials ANNOUNCE EACH ONE. There are some who think its not important to know the timing, but it most certainly is, we can't understand eschatology at all if we can't get the timing of the Rapture right, and Satan loves having us confused.
  14. We are in continual tribulation our Lord told us. Anyone of us could find ourselves in danger at any moment. But the Lord is our Shepard in any case. This means after the Tribulation period. which is known via Joel 2, which is the Sun and the Moon going dark, but that is only a part of the Tribulation, we would have to list all the Seal, Trump and Vial Judgments to get the full gist of its magnitude, that was not Jesus/ intention, he only wanted to point to AFTER the tribulation period, and the most noted sign is the Sun and moon not giving her light. Seal number 6 is not the only time she doesn't give her light, it also happens by 1/3's during the Trumps and IN FULL during the Vials, so we get pitch black at that time. So after the 42 month period of God's Wrath the Lord Jesus will come, but he comes with the Church, I don't know how you guys miss this tbh. Rev. 19 shows the Saints in Heaven Marrying the Lamb, then returning to defeat the Beast !! Rev. 4 and 5 clearly shows the Saints in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened. Then in Rev. 7:9-16 they are shown again, after the Seals are opened. All of the Seals save MAYBE the 7th are opened on day 1261, so there is 1260 days left, we know this because the first 5 are all associated with the Beasts reign on earth. The First four are his actions bringing RESULTS to pass. 1. He Conquers, 2. He brings War via taking away Peace, 3. He brings Famine via his policies/wars. 4. He brings sickness and death, all of these four seals happen over a 42 month period of time. We now move on to another of his actions, he kills the Saints who became Faithful Servants AFTER the Rapture, these are the Martyrs under the 5th Seal and these are killed over a 42 month period of time. The 6th Seal is thus God announcing His Wrath is at hand, but all 6 seals are opened within minutes, they all PROJECT FORWARD, they are not contingent upon coming actions. God's Wrath will last 42 months, Satan is kicked out of Heaven here, he and his Demons are the stars that fall from heaven as untimely figs. We know the Dragon chases the Women {Israel} for 42 months. P.S. Matthew 24 is imagined as being a part of Rev. 6 BEFORE verse 15. Its just not there brother, Matt. 4-6 is about Jerusalem and 70 AD, then verses 7-14 is about the Church Age. If not then Jesus just left all that out !! 2000 years of the Church is the Nation vs. Nation, Famines/Pestilences/Black Plague deaths etc. The TROUBLES you guys are looking for are shown after verse 15, after Jesus mentions the AoD. The THREE MENTIONS of false christs are there for a specific reason. The first fulfills John 5:43, the Pharisees/Jews put forth a "POLITICAL MESSIAH" to save them from the Fourth Beast after REJECTING Christ Jesus. In verse 11 Jesus is speaking about the 2000 some odd year Church Age false preacher types like David Koresh, Jim Jones and Joseph Smith etc. Then in verse 24 we get THE Anti-Christ and THE False Prophet who work Miracles. Before verse 15, Matt. 24 has nothing to do with the 70th week. Nor can it. The Disciples were told in verse 9 of their impending deaths. These are BIRTH PANGS which need to all come to pass before the baby {70th Week} can be born. Amen.
  15. Thanks brother, got rid of the Prostrate on the 19th, the Lymp-nodes were cancer free but while in there they saw my bladder had cancer just starting, so they got that whilst in there but they may want to do a little radiation to be safe in about a month. The Lymp-nodes are the important sign I think in that it spreads to other organs via the blood stream, so maybe God has plans for me further on earth. Here is where I think people get off track on Matt. 24, they see all this or much of it as the 70th week tribulation period, when if we follow the timelines it can't be that. The Disciples themselves are warned they will all die {save John of course} or be killed for Jesus. Matt. 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. So any end time 70th week period of time before this verse just can't be factual. Jesus is giving them a run down of what he initially told them about, the temples destruction, I see that as the first false christ mention. Then he gives them the 2000 some odd year church age false prophet/preachers period through verse 14. In other words the very thing Jesus told them about to start with, he now warns them, hey, there will be false christs {this fulfills John 5:43} and the Pharisees, Jews knowing Rome was the Fourth Beast put forth their Political Messianic Saviors, not realizing the real Messiah was not just a political leader, but the Son of the Living God !! So Jesus warns them about this, no doubt they need to stay away from Jerusalem at this time, and they don't need to fall for the lie that the Messiah is come. Then after that the Church Age tribulation which Christ promised the Saints they must go through, saying ye will always have tribulation. Jesus showed them there would be a period of time with many, many, many wars, much famine, many earthquakes and much pestilence {Black Plague}. That covers from Jesus till now and until the Rapture, its the Church Age Period. These are the beginning of sorrows, or as you say Birth pangs. On earth there was 2000 years flood..........2000 years Jesus.......... and 2000 years bring the Birth Pangs of the coming 70th week which will be the baby. The Birth Pangs are not the baby, they are just the sign the baby is near brother. Jesus even tells us the end is BY and BY. The false preachers in verse 11 are the Robert Tilton types, the Jim Jones and the David Koresh types, and even Joseph Smith in my mind. Then in verse 12 we are told sin abounds, but he that endures {ones lifetime race, Paul said we must run the race until the end} until the end will be saved. Many people think this means the 70th week tribulation it doesn't, verse 14 says when the Gospel is preached unto the ends of the earth, THEN the end {70th week} will come. You see brother, verses 4-7 was 70 AD. And I think if Israel/Jews had of accepted Christ, 70 AD would have been the End Times !! But of course God knowing all things knew they would reject His Son Jesus. God Bless brother, and happy Thanksgiving unto our God. We see darkly now, but one day we will see clearly.
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