Marcus O'Reillius

The 144,000 are not "marked" as the people of Jerusalem are on the Day of the Lord's Wrath ~ but are "sealed". The 144,000 may even have immortal and imperishable bodies as well, being as the same type as the Harvest - "wheat", or the Elect. As a Pre-Wrath adherent, I agree that we will suffer oppression in the first half of the one 'seven' - worse than the hypocritical intolerance the politically correct left heaps upon us now with their criticism and sarcasm and constant, never-ending belittling. As a Pre-Wrath adherent, I agree that we will suffer Satan's rage - especially when he cannot ensnare all the Jews when the anti-Christ sweeps down from the North and encircles Jerusalem and some of the Jews in Judea escape. This post-midpoint event is called the Great Tribulation. The Wrath of God will fall on all who are not taken up - save a tiny portion: the Remnant Jews who God shepherds about. The Proud, and the Wicked will die. When Scripture says God will destroy "all", it also says that a few will survive. Thus, like at other times, "all" (kol) in the Bible does not mean a technical 100% as our culture demands, but "all that is applicable" as in "all of Israel shall be saved", or as in the end, "all who deserve to die" will die. This "all" is pretty close to 100% in the case of the end-times. If we take Zechariah literally, 1/3 of the Jews live through the end-times, through the Time of Jacob's Trouble. As there are 15 million Jews now, 5 million survive, and some just barely, because some Jews make it without being shepherded. If we take Zechariah literally again, ten Gentiles (the Meek, who also barely survive the Wrath of God) take hold of one Jew and ask to her/him to take them to their God. This is important. At no time in history did those the Hebrews conquer turn to worship the God of Abraham. In the end-times, after all is said and done -- they will. If we allow a 10:1 ration of Meek to Remnant, this gives us a total post-apocalyptic world population of 55 million. Current world population is 7.4 billion. Compared to 7,400 million, (to put things in the same unit of measure: millions) 55 million represents LESS THAN 1% of the current population. That's pretty much means all will die. So as a Pre-Wrath adherent, I also agree that we will not only suffer Satan's wrath, but also that we will be persecuted, starved to death, and martyred outright in the Great Tribulation which is ended suddenly, and quite abruptly, after not much time (but He will tarry in coming) by the otherwise unexpected (by the wicked) sun/moon/star sign which precedes the Day of the Lord when Jesus comes again. As I take it that you are a Post-Trib adherent, we differ in our timing, and by the nature of our contrasting eschatologies, the complexity of the First Resurrection.

I would put the order as Revelation 7:1-8 as happening on the Day of the Lord, after Jesus touches down, splitting the Mount of Olives in two. Only after the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ- And after the Rapture of the Elect from the earth -- the Harvest from the clouds, And the delivery of both as the Great Multitude to the third Heaven of the Father's presence - And the opening of the Scroll - Does the Wrath of God go forth -- and Ezekiel 9 describes the follow-on to Joel 2's battle scene assaulting Jerusalem. Now in the order of things, the talking image of the anti-Christ, the abomination of Daniel 9:27, is not mentioned in Ezekiel. This omission does not negate it's obliteration; that can only be surmised as a fact because at the time Ezekiel witnesses the Temple scene, the Temple has been secured and it is not there. Ezekiel does not see the actual entry nor any action taking place which would include the destruction of the talking image abomination. An omission of an event is not the commission of an error in providing a linear, prophetic narrative in the Bible. The man with the writing kit may very well be John. John is a witness in Heaven to the end-times, and he is writing down what he sees (Rev 10:4). He is also given tasks to do (Rev 11:1). And this might not be the only time Ezekiel "sees" John... as per the measuring of the Temple. The scene in Ezekiel 9 describes the elimination of the wicked on the Day of the Lord's Wrath. The killing is only to all who had not mourned what had been happening: "...and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst." The ones who are killed are the ones who went along - gladly even - with the anti-Christ. They are normal human beings. As to the ones with the "mark" - and we're not talking about the mark of the beast here... The ones who are spared are also normal human beings. The "mark" is only to spare them. The ones, six in number, who are doing the killing, may very well be the smallest unit of the 144,000: half a dozen - a squad. The 144,000 are the Firstfruits of the Harvest - being of the same type: i.e., Christian. Their sealing is not quite the same as the "mark" the Jews in Jerusalem (and possibly others) receive. Their sealing makes them invincible, and perhaps immune to the ravages of God's Wrath. The ones "marked" are not so immune, nor are they invincible; some will die later. They are just spared at this point - some of the Remnant Jews will come from Jerusalem.

The Two Witnesses are not "smoke covering the target." They are the completion of the fifth Seal Martyrs. 11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. John does not call this the First Resurrection because it is not the First Resurrection; it is the gathering of the Two Witnesses. This is the miraculous revival of two dead bodies, decaying for three days, which scares every one who watches it in horror. At the point when the Two Witnesses are called up from the earth - the fifth Seal Martyrs STILL are not complete in number because the Two Witnesses have not yet arrived. At this point - the two are still going up to Heaven in a cloud. That's where John leaves the scene. So no declaration of the First Resurrection is made because the fifth Seal Martyrs have not yet been made alive. The First Resurrection is not complete and is not an accomplished fact until the entire body of the fifth Seal Martyrs are made alive - and that doesn't happen until after the one 'seven' is completed, and not only that, Satan is bound as well! The First Resurrection includes: The 24 Elders - who follow Jesus in his train when He ascended to Heaven right after He met Mary in the garden. The 144,000 - who follow Jesus wherever He goes once He comes back. (Sixth Seal). The Dead in Christ - who are raised from Paradise on the Day of the Lord. (Sixth Seal) The Elect on the earth - who are gathered up on the Day of the Lord. (Sixth Seal) The Martyrs - who hold a special place near the third Heaven with a glass ceiling. (Fifth Seal) The Two Witnesses - who complete the number of the Martyrs at the end of the one 'seven'. And this is not accomplished in its entirety until after the one 'seven' when God makes the fifth Seal Martyrs "alive" in new imperishable, and immortal bodies.

Thank you very much.

It is a challenge, and unfortunately, heartfelt belief can allow great leaps of logic resulting in interpretations which allow the Pre-Trib student to rest assured in their prior conclusion for a departure before it gets really, really bad. My message in eschatology is: endure patiently, remain steadfast, and keep the faith ~ no matter what! I do not think we have an easy way out... but I know who wins in the end!

Gabriel declares no such designations as you do. Dan 9:27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." There is a destruction which will be "poured out" on the desolator - but he makes no announcement of differing tribulations. Jesus also uses language which designates the Great Tribulation as starting at the midpoint abomination - as you do - howsomevercomma - He also says that is cut short - and the wording He uses is an agricultural term also used for "docking" an animal's tail to but a nub. Yet you have it running for the full course of the second half of the one 'seven'... interesting to say the least ~ but not at all inline with what the Master says. Mt 24:21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Using another account of the end-times, Revelation 13:15-16 for why the Great Tribulation is so terrible for the Elect that they wouldn't survive it if it were not cut short - how long can you go without food and electricity and gasoline for your car AND hide while they're tracking you down for the "Daniel" test of worshiping the talking image? So how is it that you equate the two as you so obviously do? Is there some Scripture I am unaware of which does? Or is it a necessity of your eschatology that you "back into" this type of interpretation?

You didn't answer the question. The pertinent verses are Revelation 6:16 & 17. Those are the only two which apply to the question being asked AT the opening of the sixth Seal. Rev 11:18 - After the seventh Trumpet. Rev 14:8 & 10 - Announcement of one of three Angels - which by the way is the motivation for the people who say God's Wrath is coming NEXT at the sixth Seal. As to the first portion - verse 8 does NOT describe God's Wrath. As to the second portion - they SHALL drink - future... not at that moment; not what is going to happen NEXT. Rev 14:19 - Comes AFTER the Harvest of Revelation 14:14-16. It also comes after the midpoint Abomination of Rev 13:14-15. Rev 15:1-16:1 - Come with the Bowls, which are LAST, and I think correspond to the seventh Trumpet's announcement we never hear. WHO is it that says God's Wrath is coming at the opening of the sixth Seal?

Last set of questions on this important declaration on your part: Where is one 'seven' defined? (Daniel 9:27) Where is the Great Tribulation defined? (The Olivet Discourse of Mt 24:15-31) Are they not separate periods of time? (Yes.) How is it that you equate the two as being one and the same?

And what of Revelation chapter 13? For the 42 months the anti-Christ is allowed to oppress the Saints right up to the installation of the talking image abomination(s) of himself - where is God's Wrath?

Who is it that declares God's Wrath is coming? Are they indeed correct, seeing as they don't know God, as to exactly what is going to happen next on the Day of the Lord?

The Aorist tense is not future. It is a summary tense, usually stated in past tense in translation, but it implies that something WILL BE accomplished as a statement of fact now. So before you want to go making hay out of nothing. you might want to study some more. Because otherwise, what you're trying to say here is in error. And Revelation 7 is not THE Rapture: it is the RESULT of the Rapture AND the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ.

The Bible does not say the four Angels are responsible for rallying the 200 million troops. Then the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 one saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 And the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released, so that they would kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them. The four Angels are responsible for making sure that a third of mankind is killed in their war. Now the Bible DOES say the unclean spirits will bring the nations together at Armageddon. Like with the muslims who kill each other after they're done killing everyone else, so too is it that Satan's house is divided and the wicked will fight each other.

I do not have the sixth Trumpet and the sixth Bowl as the same event. Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rd of man killed Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven Jesus and His army (144,000) go out to do battle Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone: end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Victory at Armageddon anti-Christ and false prophet captured Two Witnesses arise Earth changing earthquake Jews survive the earthquake in Jerusalem End of the one ‘seven’

I can see no error here. I do think I see where you're coming from and why from your perspective, you think I've made an error. Here is my sequencing of God's Wrath from the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology (Rev 4-11 exclusive); the detailed parallel account of the one 'seven' (Rev 13-16 inclusive); and the Sidebar account of the Temple and the Two Witnesses (Rev 11:1-13 - the excluded portion of the broad overview): Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rd of man killed Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven Jesus and His army (144,000) go out to do battle Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone: end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Victory at Armageddon anti-Christ and false prophet captured Two Witnesses arise Earth changing earthquake Jews survive the earthquake in Jerusalem End of the one ‘seven’ One: Just because the Sidebar account's narrative comes in the pause in the broad overview linear narrative of the Seal/Scroll chronology which is initiated when John is told not to write what is said in conjunction with the seventh Trumpet - does not mean the account happens between the second Woe and the third Woe. In the Sidebar account of the Temple and the Two Witnesses (Rev 11:1-13) there is no DIRECT tie-in to any of the Trumpets. This account holds BOTH HALVES of the one 'seven' and is parallel to the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11 (exclusive of the Sidebar account). Again, it contains BOTH HALVES, and the sixth Trumpet does not come before the one 'seven' is initiated, nor does the seventh Trumpet come after the one 'seven' is over. You cannot read the book of Revelation as a novel: it is composed of several accounts set in parallel with each other: that is why various actions are repeated, and that is what makes this book so confusing for many. Two: As a matter of logic, the death of the Two Witnesses is loosely tied to the opening of the Abyss with the 1st Woe because that unleashes the demonic forces which have been imprisoned, probably since the time of Noah (. The locusts' best interpretation are that they represent demons. Likewise, we don't know what is unleashed exactly, but they do have a "king": 11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon. Now as a matter of logic again, the Two Witnesses only lie dead for three and a half days. Taken as literal days, this happens right up before the end of the one 'seven' with, in my estimation is over three years worth of God's Wrath raining down on the wicked - which in my opinion is just desserts for them! Three: SO - because I am NOT restrained by your insistence that God's Wrath take only ten literal days, I have put their death AFTER the first Woe (which is all that Scripture demands)- and right before the end of the one 'seven'. As I do not think the final battle of the one 'seven', which is set up in the detailed parallel account of Rev chapters 13-16, takes three and a half days; and because Jesus and His Army (the 144,000) are poised to do battle at the end in Revelation chapter 19, which starts the Epilogue parallel account - I sequence their death before that and after the sixth Bowl of the seventh Trumpet so that they die right before the end. Their death happens before the battle by a couple of days or three - and their resurrection happens with the conclusion of God's Wrath upon the wicked when the anti-Christ and false prophet are beaten and captured.

For some reason, this quote function is acting funny... Where do you get from Scripture that God's Wrath must align exactly with the Festivals to the very day? That is an assumption on your part. I only note that that my sequencing of events lists: Rapture -then-Wrath -then-Atonement with the Jews -then-their encampment at Mount Zion, Fits the same pattern as the Fall Festivals: Rosh ha-Shannah -then-Days of Awe -then-Yom Kippur -then-Sukkot. Scripture only says: Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. The festivals are MERE SHADOWS OF WHAT IS TO COME. Paul does not tell us it's an exact match. Nor does what Jesus tell us about the Wrath of God fit within ten days - after all: how is it that one Woe alone can take five months, and still have all of God's Wrath fit within ten days?

And your complaint is? ~ That this doesn't fit with your eschatology? Again, I have shown how I have blended the sixth Seal around specific and unique events which occur in the Olivet Discourse, Daniel 9:27 and Revelation's 6th Seal. I did not put the specific and unique marker of the sun/moon/star event in the Olivet Discourse. I did not put the specific and unique marker of the sun/moon/star event in the sixth Seal. I did not say that the specific and unique marker of the sun/moon/star event preceded the Day of the Lord. I did not say that the gathering of the Elect happens after the sun/moon/star event. I did not say that the Great Multitude appear in Heaven before the Father after the sun/moon/star event. The WORD OF GOD put those references there and said all that. I just put them together around this one specific and unique event; - from page 2 of this thread putting the three linear narrative passages I just mentioned together: Midpoint Abomination Great Tribulation Sun/moon/star event Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man Mustering the 144,000 The Son of Man coming on the clouds Redemption / Gathering Elect from the earth Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation Yeah, the resurrection of the Dead in Christ and the Rapture happens at some point: - after the midpoint Abomination, - after the Great Tribulation, - and after the prerequisite sign of the Day of the Lord = Which happens with the events of the sixth Seal. Now if you want to argue something different, please do so from related Scripture, and you might start with why you think the Day of the Lord does not happen at the sixth Seal. However! To say that it doesn't because your eschatology places the Rapture differently does not refute what Jesus revealed to John and us as happening in conjunction with the sixth Seal.

This is the 6th Trumpet: Rev 9:13 Then the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 one saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 And the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released, so that they would kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them. 17 And this is how I saw in the vision the horses and those who sat on them:the riders had breastplates the color of fire and of hyacinth and of brimstone; and the heads of the horses are like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths proceed fire and smoke and brimstone. 18 A third of mankind was killed by these three plagues, by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which proceeded out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents and have heads, and with them they do harm. 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; 21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts. This is how I distill it down to a bullet point: Rev 9:13-21 - Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3 of man killed This is the 6th Bowl: Rev 16:12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east. This is how I distill it down to a bullet point: Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E This is how I present them in the entire timeline of events distilled from the sequence-of-events found in the linear narrative end-time prophetic passages: Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rd of man killed Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven Jesus and His army (144,000) go out to do battle Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone: end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Victory at Armageddon anti-Christ and false prophet captured Two Witnesses arise Earth changing earthquake Jews survive the earthquake in Jerusalem End of the one ‘seven’ Now I have not combined the 6th Trumpet with the 6th Bowl.

Again, you have provided a view of the five foolish virgins which is found nowhere else. Now, while I do not agree with your assessment, you are free to hold it and espouse it, and market it to as many as will hear you and agree with you. However, it has really nothing to do with the methodology of this thread.

There are many ways to interpret and then apply the parable of the ten virgins. You can take this figuratively in an eschatological sense where it makes the argument of an analogy of oil to faith. Now nowhere in Scripture is it stated that oil equals faith, but that is there. You can take this literally in an eschatological sense with a Mid-, Pre-Wrath, or Post-Trib position where the final waiting period of the virgins is in the last portion of the Great Tribulation and to actually, and physically BUY oil, means the foolish virgins take the mark of the beast - and so are excluded. You can ignore the aspect of the oil altogether. You can relate the aspect of the oil to something else altogether. You can apply this parable with or without an eschatological basis. You can even go so far as to make this parable a central tenet of your eschatological point of view. All these views are available. None can claim exclusive rights to being correct. Your view has nothing to do with the sequence of events analysis. However, from a literal point of view, the fact that the five foolish virgins - which can mean they have never known another God than God - didn't forget their oil - they just haven't brought enough of it when the bridegroom tarries (and that IS an important point in the parable) - so they have to take the mark of the beast and BUY some - and so they lose their place by the bride (who isn't mentioned) at the wedding ceremony - fits within the structure that linear narrative prophetic passages give us.

No reply to Scripture, which does speak of an earthly location for Mount Zion, and figurative allegory between our Lord and the rock cut without hands becoming a mountain; just insults to a fellow brother in Christ. That's sad.

Not wrong. There are physical dimensions in Heaven as well. But the physical earthly location of Mount Zion will be right around Jerusalem. I think it starts out as the cleft Mount of Olives which Jesus splits on the Day of the Lord as per Zechariah 14:4. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. This second earthquake of the sixth Seal is when Jesus touches down. From there, He summons the 144,000 to be sealed so they can fight with Him on the Day of the Lord's Wrath which soon follows the Harvest of Rev 14:14-16. This also then becomes the Mount Zion that the Remnant flocks to for the Sukkot, the encampment following the atoning, Yom Kippur, when the Remnant Jews learn their Messiah King is the same Servant Messiah they had rejected previously... Isaiah 2:2 Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the Lord Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. 3 And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And another passage which addresses the beginning of the Millennium: Isaiah 4:2 In that day the Branch of the Lord will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth will be the pride and the adornment of the survivors of Israel. 3 It will come about that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy—everyone who is recorded for life in Jerusalem. 4 When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and purged the bloodshed of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning, 5 then the Lord will create over the whole area of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, even smoke, and the brightness of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 There will be a shelter to give shade from the heat by day, and refuge and protection from the storm and the rain. Mount Zion is on the earth. Jesus will be the only "mountain" of the earth - a rock cut without human hands who smashes the statue of man's rule and grows to become a mountain. You're very quick to judge and condemn with wrongdoing, and not disposed to allow any other opinion than your own. So I put this out for the reader, that they may know some of the other applications of Hebrews 12:22.

Shaking the heavens and the earth indicates that these are both elements of creation rather than the realm of God. Likewise, the nations will also be shaken. The idea here is two-fold. One, what is hidden will be made plain. This analogy works like this. In a container place some rocks and cover them with sand. Shaking the container will actually bring the rocks to the surface as the sand works its way downward filling the smaller spaces the around the rocks. The other is that is only what is unshakeable or solid will remain. This means all the falsehoods built upon lies will come down and only the truth of God remains and in conjunction with the first aspect, become plain because it is all that is left standing. This is exactly what the author of Hebrews says in quoting Haggai: HEB 12:26a …now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27 The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain. Which raises the question of what remains? As the truth cannot be shaken, then truth remains. The Psalms speak of this in reverse fashion, here like the term Holy being applied in reverse fashion to the righteous in the meaning of Saints, going to those that are like MountZion; they trust in the Lord. As Jesus is unshakeable so is Heaven: PS 125:1 Those who trust in the LORD are like MountZion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever. The Seal account does not address the events within the sixth Seal as the Day of the Lord, but having the element of the sun/moon/star event certainly includes it as describing that Day because of the multiple accounts and references to it. This second event in Revelation’s Seal account has a parallel in the Olivet Discourse. It comes directly after the period Jesus identifies as the Great Distress “unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.” This preserves this section as maintaining a straight line chronological order. As a sign, the sun/moon/star event has an element of the signature of God in the miraculous. Miracles are God’s stamp of exclusivity that marks an event as being authored by Him. God used the miraculous to put His stamp on the Law with all the miracles in bringing the Hebrew nation out of Egypt. Prophets are imbued with the miraculous to validate their words as coming from God. Jesus’ miracles proved God the Father witnessed to His teaching as well as Jesus. So it is fitting that Christ’s return be stamped with the miraculous as an indelible seal of God’s work. As a time sequence marker, the darkening of the sun, the bloody appearance of the moon, and the fig like aspect to the stars, allows the sixth Seal to be linked directly to Jesus’ Olivet Discourse to the Disciples. Jesus’ Words as recorded by Matthew and Mark are not a direct quote of any Old Testament passage. Luke gives no detail, but he does state all three as signs in his gospel, but then his book is a compilation rather than a strict recitation. Starting with the Olivet Discourse as a mainline timeline are the following descriptions: MT 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " `the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' MK 13:24 "But in those days, following that distress, " `the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; MK 13:25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ LK 21:25 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. As a matter of a counterpoint, looking at the sun/moon/star event ushers in some overlap of verses, because as a theme, darkness appears more than once in the struggle between God and Satan and more specifically, as a Judgment by God. Darkness can apply to being outside of God’s orb, as being thrown into the darkness when rejected by God. Darkness also represents the power of evil because it contains no light, being representative of Jesus. Darkness was featured at Christ’s crucifixion. Darkness is also used as Judgment of God in the fourth Trumpet and the fifth Bowl Judgment. In this commentary, the idea behind presenting the Day of the Lord has it as a special day, separate from the rest. While darkness is used to demonstrate the withdrawal of the Lord’s favor and so act as a form of punishment, the darkness on this day in the verses linked to this particular day have additional characteristics not associated with other Judgments. To identify this day as a literal day, the three parts, should be listed. In addition, prophecy connects certain elements with the Day of the Lord aside from just darkness: blood, fire and smoke. These or some action by God which would lead to that should also be present in the context of any sun/moon/star passages which could be used to picture this unique day. If the first order of the Day is an earthquake, then this covering of clouds could be just as sudden. While no verse puts both on the same day: that remains a distinct possibility. Joel does list an earthquake before the darkening as well. If the darkening sky were to be accepted as a natural phenomenon, then there would not be the fear expressed by those hiding themselves. Having it happen quickly would reinforce the change in the heavens as being supernatural. Man, not regularly acknowledging God, would then be forced to concede that he is faced with something he doesn’t understand and it follows that fear would surround his thinking. Just such a decisive change is indicated in Amos: AM 8:9 "In that day," declares the Sovereign LORD, "I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight. The point here is one of contrast. Noon, supported in the Hebrew, is the brightest part of the day. It is this time that God chooses to make dark announcing the end of the Great Distress that has persecuted followers of Christ. A rough parallel would be Elijah pouring water several times on the sacrifice God will consume on Mount Carmel, seemingly; it is against the odds. The accompanying word study to ‘noon,’ sohar, backs this up: The brightness of that hour symbolizes the intense purity of justice (Ps 37:6; cf. Job 11:17) and the blessing that dispels gloom (Isa 59:10). It is also viewed as a time of security; thus a conquest carried on at this time indicates a conqueror’s superior strength (Jer 6:4; 15:8; 20:16 Zeph 2:4). Conversely, the rebellious grope in darkness even at noonday (Deut 28:28f.; Isa 58:10; Job 5:14). Since the sun will set at noon on the day of judgment, the troubles of that day will be very severe (Amos 8:9).―TWOT p.755 The nature of the sun going down at noon with the verb action has not been stressed in this analysis. Down is implied. Go is a primitive root word and has a variety of applications to include the setting of the sun. By itself, the verb action here does not lend itself to complete understanding of the process by which the sun goes, the important aspect of this verse is the timing which shows the utterly opposite contrast; at its peak: the sun is darkened. This is because the nature by which the sun is removed may be understood in light of other Bible prophecies. The important aspect here is the darkening of the earth; all relative accounts are in agreement there. Having the sun go down would then be like a figure of speech for its absence to provide the light of day; the important part of Amos 8:9 is the timing of its absence. Now while Amos describes a time of wrath against Israel what evidence separates this day from other instances revealed in Revelation to include darkness, specifically, the fourth Trumpet of the seventh Seal and the fifth Bowl? The very section begins with the time being “ripe for my people Israel; I will spare them no longer” as God says. This in itself suggests the beginning of judgment. Another clue which will tie this day to the Day of the Lord is the cryptic passage in verse 8:3, where bodies are flung everywhere and then silence. But revealing the nature of that passage will have to wait until later in this chapter, but it does tie in with the Day of the Lord as will be explained. An aspect of the Bible which is lost with the advent of modern post-Renaissance perspective is the imagery surrounding various descriptions of this sun/moon/stars event. John’s use of imagery of sackcloth, blood and figs is not literal, but can be understood as being both descriptive of an unscientific viewpoint and also harkening to a greater meaning from the Bible. The Revelation verse is not an objective news report. To remove oneself and try to describe an event in an absolute, neutral and objective manner, especially one in which they were largely ignorant, was not part of their culture. Thus the reader has to accept this passage and like passages within the viewpoint that was prevalent then because this is another instance where the observer’s true point of view holds. From the viewing point on earth, the reader can conclude that the lights of the heavens will not be viewable. Hence the aspect of darkening as is used in Jesus’ Olivet Discourse and other sun/moon/star references. Furthermore, as to falling stars, not only did the ancient Hebrew people have no scientific knowledge of stars as solar fusion furnaces in all their various sizes, even in the educated age in the Roman age of Caesars the apostles did not have an objective point of view of space. From an observer’s true point of view, though not possible for a star as massive as the sun to fall to earth, nevertheless could describe a meteorite shower and they are commonly called falling stars, just as people today refer to sunrises and sunsets or even the sun ‘going down’ from Amos. The greater meaning the reader can get out of the figurative language is how it is associated in the Bible, especially from John’s point of view because he is the writer. His experience, growing up with the Scriptures which modern Christians know as the Old Testament and his personal experience under Jesus ought to be taken into account. First of all, when John writes that the sun is like sackcloth, and the stars fall as figs, is to use simile. Also the color of the moon being blood red, and while the moon in an eclipse can appear reddish, may be imbued with descriptive language to suggest another element at work in the sixth Seal. Sackcloth was coarse like burlap and was the dress of prisoners, slaves and the poor. It was adopted by prophets and worshippers to show identity with the poor and slaves and also to show mourning. The aspect of doom inherent with mourning is aptly applied here. This is day of sorrow. The image of darkness coming with judgment as with Pharaoh in Egypt is reflected in the Prophets as coming from God: ISA 50:3 I clothe the sky with darkness and make sackcloth its covering." Blood can be a cleansing agent; it is provided by God for the remission of sin. It is blood that makes atonement for one’s life. In the Exodus, blood averted harm by substituting for the firstborn and appeased the angel of death. Likewise, Christ’s blood propitiates God’s wrath from believers in Jesus. But this aspect of the redeemer in grace also carries with it the aspect of wrath. As the goel of Isaiah 63:16 refers back to the winepress of Isaiah 63:2 and in Isaiah 63:4 describes both the year of the Lord’s favor which Jesus quoted for His ministry, the word for redeemer in Isaiah also is the one who brings about the day of the Lord’s vengeance. Blood is also a judgment upon the world and the means for expressing wrath. The blood that will pollute the land brings up another use of goel in Hebrew, defilement. Those left to take God’s wrath will have their water turned to blood like Moses did, and the same blood that cleanses the Saints becomes a curse for the damned as it will be all they have to drink eventually: drinking blood is prohibited by the Law. Much like Paul’s analogy of the burning incense to the returning victors’ celebration contrasts to the same perception it has for the condemned, the same element, blood, can have two vastly different meanings on the Day of the Lord depending on which side of judgment a person falls. The last figurative simile has overtones in prophetic passages from the Old Testament and to the very Gospel message Jesus used to indicate the sun/moon/star event was a sign for those the Disciples represented, the core of God’s Church here on Earth. While it is not possible to discern John’s intent in writing this section entirely, the parallel between stating the stars to fall like figs, especially when wind is involved with all the overtones that wind carries with it being the word for the Spirit of God becomes unmistakable. If John wanted to point at the Gospel message of the Olivet Discourse, he could do nothing more to indicate alignment with the parable Jesus gives to the listeners to know this is the time they have inquired about: Jesus’ return. MT 24:32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. So in the figurative sense, John is also describing a day of sorrow that rich and poor will mourn. It has a cutting edge to it in both redemption and wrath as the two uses of blood. Finally, the end is very near, right at the door as Jesus said. So adding these elements to the description gives the verse significance that transcends just the physical descriptions of events in the celestial realm. On the other hand, the description of the heavens’ signs will be visible and real. There is a literal aspect to the Day of the Lord with the sun/moon/star event. To uncover this day and how it can be understood in terms modern man would be familiar with, leads to the Old Testament. First is the nature of the sun becoming like sackcloth. This event is perhaps best described in Ezekiel, here in a lament directed at Egypt, describes a future apocalypse: EZE 32:7 When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. EZE 32:8 All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land, declares the Sovereign LORD. First of all, the image God uses here in Ezekiel shows that His Wrath is not quick in being carried out but takes time. The picture the words paint is of a flame being slowly extinguished for lack of oxygen. The process is slow and painful; much like crucifixion was in Jesus’ time. It also carries with it the idea of darkness, and all that is represented when the light (a symbol of Jesus and God) is removed. While those condemned to God’s judgment may wish to get it over with quickly, that is not what is in store for them. The applicability of this verse in Ezekiel to the Day of the Lord is loose. Originally speaking of Egypt to be smashed in her arrogance by the Babylonians, it does contain the general order of sun/moon/stars in the event. Blood is also a major component in the passage, but being in Egypt may not be the same as the great flow of blood that will emanate from God’s Winepress which cover the land around Jerusalem. However, as and example of how God will fulfill prophecy with the sun becoming like sackcloth, this verse can be used to show the means by which God brings that about, and the aspect of clouds being used to make the sun like sackcloth was described by another Prophet: ZEP 1:14 The great day of the Lord is near — near and coming quickly. The cry on the day of the Lord is bitter; the Mighty Warrior shouts his battle cry. 15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness — 16 a day of trumpet and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the corner towers. As a modern people, this event where the sky is darkened by cloud cover can be accomplished and understood as an unprecedented weather phenomenon whereby the clouds are so thick, like that under a summer thunderstorm where it literally gets dark. In one aspect of interpretation, this could remove the sun from sight. Covering the earth completely is not a normal weather pattern and so brings in that aspect of the miraculous. Just as Job gets his audience with God, He speaks to Job out of a storm, so it will be with this sign when God is about to come to the world. ZEC 14:6 On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime--a day known to the LORD. The aspect of unique would single this day out for consideration, but it must be remarked that ‘unique’ itself is inferred from the original Hebrew. While the NASB renders Zechariah 14:7 similarly, the King James renders it as ‘one day.’ This goes back to the word in the Hebrew, ’ehad. This word is used in Deuteronomy 6:4 for describing God, and also describes the union of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:24. It is closely identified with yahad “to be united” and with ro’sh “first head,” especially in connection with the “first day” of the month (Gen 8:13). It stresses unity while recognizing diversity with that oneness. ―TWOT p. 30 Zechariah uses this same word later in the same section to describe one Lord, and His name as one, which then takes on the connotation of singular as in only. So interpreting ’ehad as unique is to take it in the sense of only. However, in the greater context of the Day of the Lord as unfolds here in this commentary, as a day of diverse elements united in one, actually describes the true sense of ’ehad. This is one day that is divided between an eerie calm and a bewildering aftermath yet united; it is all the Day of the Lord. The unknown feature of the Day of the Lord from Zechariah is repeated by Jesus: Mt 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. This aspect also marries with the first century Judaic idiom for Rosh ha-Shannah as the “unknown day.” The arrival of this ‘appointed time’ with God was problematic; it was the only ‘appointed time’ (festival) which was coincidental with the sighting of the new moon. All other festivals happen with the full moon, or at a set time after the new moon, so they could be calculated. Furthermore, the requirement to be sighted could be hampered by weather conditions even in an arid region like Israel. Therefore, even being able to know when the new moon was to arrive, still didn’t confer absolute certainty about the ability of the Priests to announce Rosh ha-Shannah. So too, the Day of the Lord, while being able to be anticipated, will not be known until the initial earthquake and sun/moon/star signs which precede it happen. What cements this passage in Zechariah as a Day of the Lord is two-fold. First, it has the element of darkness that is so much a part of the Day of the Lord. The second is the aspect of knowledge by God of this day. As an additional bit of information, God reveals through the Prophet the condition of temperature here that is not specified in other end-time prophecy concerning this day. With an adjudication of being part of the Day of the Lord, this attribute can be added in to describe that day as it opens. The Day of the Lord starts with a great earthquake. Then, in an unprecedented meteorological event, the earth is clothed in clouds so thick it is actually dark. Joel echoes this sequence of events as happening before the Lord appears: Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. This passage here in Joel with the sun/moon/star event is explicitly tied to the Day of the Lord by the express language that it is the Day of the Lord. Not only will this day have this specific and unique sign associated with it, but the other elements of Joel 2, the advance of the Lord as the commander with His army in action. Furthermore, Joel agrees with the application of Ezekiel 32:7 to this day as well, noting it is a day of clouds in the opening in verse 2:2 followed by fire devouring the land before the advancing army. This judgment destruction is delayed in the opening of the sixth Seal in Revelation 7:3 until the army is properly sealed themselves. Up until this point on Earth, there are several reactions to the day. On the one hand, while activity may pause, it certainly does not stop. When the day comes and it is recognized as not being a natural day, expect an interruption of the normal flow of life. There are two parts to the reaction. One is to pause then continue. The other is to hide and wait for it to pass. Jesus in speaking about this time of His coming said people would be working, preparing meals and sleeping. On the other hand, in Revelation, John writes the words of the Messiah and says people of all types will be hiding in fear of the coming of the Lord. The dictates of sun, moon and star means this Day of the Lord so far has progressed from day into night, though the differentiation may be very subtle due to the darkening. The Bible as God’s Word has some interesting verses and all indications given to us align with the hour being late. If as Paul says, God’s Law can be found written in the heart of man in his intrinsic sense of morality, then there is parallel in not only in popular sayings of ‘the calm before the storm’ and ‘the eleventh hour’ but also in the universal notion of calamity from beyond man’s capacity in doomsday scenarios. For the moon to be viewed reddened, two things must occur: one, the cloud cover must dissipate, and two, nightfall will have happened. This could occur on the same day as the darkening. The stars being viewable means the evening must go beyond twilight. This brings in an interesting aspect of the scrolling. From Zechariah’s unique day, verse 14:7 ends with these words: When evening comes, there will be light. This marks the second miraculous juxtaposition of light and dark now in the opposite. It was the brightest time of the day when God made the sun dark, now at night, it is light. This occurs with the scrolling of the sky. The scrolling of the sky may be viewed as dimensional rift whereby the three dimensional ‘heavens’ normally viewed would be rolled aside to reveal the realm of Heaven: the natural world giving way for the super-natural, or beyond this natural world. The command to the Christian is to watch. Jesus commands us to remain faithful. He gives the Christian the means to know when the time is ripe, though no one will know the day, and when that day arrives, no one will know the hour. The general sequence of events allows the Christian to prepare for a time when those in rebellion against God oppress those that follow Christ, and ultimately persecute them until, if God had not shortened those days; none would be left. But Victory is not far off, and can be found as the sky scrolls back. The day advances into night, but is not a night as would normally take place. The moon is darkened or if visible is reddish like an eclipsed moon. Going to the least light, the stars, has them falling. In Isaiah’s account, they do so with the next event: the scrolling of the sky. Isaiah 34:4 All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. Which is matched by Revelation 6:14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up… There are only two instances in the Bible that describes the sky being scrolled; here in Isaiah and in Revelation with the opening of the sixth Seal. Because the scrolling in the sixth Seal comes at the end of this age and Gabriel indicated to Daniel that prophecy will be completed with the coming of the Messiah with the seventy ‘sevens,’ there is no basis to put Isaiah’s scrolling as a separate event apart from the Day of the Lord. Likewise, there are only four instances of falling stars, this in Isaiah, two in the Synoptic Gospel accounts from the Olivet Discourse, and last in the section in Revelation with the sixth Seal. (Other stars falling concern allegorical usage to describe Satan’s fall as noted from the discussion previously in chapter 4 of this book from Revelation chapter 12 in conjunction with Luke 10:18.) Three of these are firmly linked to the same sun/moon/star event. Therefore, like with the scrolling of the sky, the falling stars describe a unique event happening at the end of the age on the Day of the Lord. This passage in Isaiah is also closely linked to Wrath, and specifically to a “day of vengeance,” and that will be shown to be the case in a Pre-Wrath eschatology with the second half of the Day of the Lord. The scrolling of the sky is the last celestial manifestation preceding Christ’s parousia. As such, there may well be a connection to this unique, observable event, and a sign which Jesus stated to Him: Mt 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. This sign, which is an observable event so that people will know it comes from God, also happens “in the sky” and it is immediately followed by Jesus, as the Son of Man, the way in which He referred to Himself more than any other idiom in Him Ministry, “coming on the clouds of the sky.” As with the second contrary miracle for a normal day night into day, the scrolling of the sky certainly marks it as the third sign that this Day is from God. The suggestion here, (not originally by this author, but by another Christian friend opining about the magnificent show-stopping celestial fireworks accompanying the scrolling of the sky) is that the scrolling of the sky represents a dimensional rift of this three dimensional world from the timeless plane of Heaven. With the scrolling of the sky and the cascading of the ‘stars,’ Jesus also says that His Salvation is literally at the door at this point. This analysis labels this second celestial sign as the sign of the Son of Man in the sky. Thus this final sign after the foreboding beginning of the Day of the Lord signals a distinct event and this celestial lightshow precedes Christ’s arrival. Those on the earth around the point of His descent then see the Lord descending as He had gone up. Subsequently, the rest of the earth sees Him covering the earth on the clouds. The sky scrolls to reveal Jesus descending with a celestial firestorm of falling stars. As He touches down as He left, the second earthquake of Revelation 6:14 ensues. Since Jesus has some work to do on the Earth and beyond the natural world, the scrolling does not have to continue, but could pause. Indeed, other events are ordered before Jesus gathers the Elect from the corners of the Earth which necessitate a pause at this juncture. However, when He comes on the clouds, the scrolling of the sky would continue when the Lord arises to the clouds with the resurrected souls from Paradise. If the scrolling were to proceed from east to west not only would each time zone be able to have the sky turn light at night, but it would be a literal fulfillment to Jesus’ words describing His parousia being like lightening flashing in the east unto the west. Thus suggested as a best “fit” looking forward to Christ covering the earth would see Him from the vantage point of one still standing on the earth as looking up, seeing the sky scroll back from the east and with a host of falling stars, see Christ illuminated on the clouds with all the resurrected souls from Paradise with Him. Keeping with a late hour, Jesus gives two parables to the Disciples. One in Matthew, the parable of the ten virgins, has the bridegroom, Jesus, coming after the midnight hour. The other in Mark, concerns the example in 13:35 and states that “you do not know when the owner of the house will come back--whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.” The point here is that the hour is still not known, though a general indication that the day will not be truncated before the moon would normally be visible is supported by all the language used in the Bible, and by Jesus’ parables as well. As a disclaimer, saying this should not offend any that would insist upon a literal know-nothing position which could have the hour coming during the day. Knowing that hour does not come during the normal hours of daylight does not specify which hour the Lord returns. Getting back to the order from the sequence of events described with the breaking of the sixth Seal is this: REV 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. This would be the last element of the Day of the Lord: no wind. In sequence fashion, this happens after the scrolling of the sky. If there would be calm before the storm, then this would be it. No wind would mean there were no pressure gradients, having no Highs nor Lows, and no trade winds. Such a phenomenon is beyond the normal, or, supernatural, and that is the Bible’s claim as well as John records here what Jesus has revealed to him through God. If the entire world would be breathlessly waiting, then what unfolds next will leave it wondering and reeling as every mountain and island has moved. The utter joy of the Day of the Lord’s redemption for His people is expressed in Isaiah. ISA 60:1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you. ISA 60:2 See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you. ISA 60:3 Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn. ISA 60:4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you: All assemble and come to you; your sons come from afar, and your daughters are carried on the arm. This passage captures the elements of darkness and light and the joy that many will receive as well as the glory unto the Lord when He gathers His Elect. In the Seal/Scroll chronology, after the celestial sign identifying the events put into motion by the breaking of the sixth Seal, the Firstfruits of the Harvest are mustered. This will be covered in detail later. Another event, not listed, but logically absent, would be the source for the next event to unfold in the Heavenly scene in which John writes: the Great Multitude.

Another objection is that there is no second earthquake in the sixth Seal. 12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Let's look at this in the timeline of the Day of the Lord. Here are the events described with the opening of the sixth Seal. A great earthquake Sun becomes black Moon becomes like blood Falling stars Scrolling of the sky Every mountain and island (mountains off the sea bed) moved. When we look at the timeline, we see that we must go by necessity of what is described as happening from day until night. First we have an earthquake to "shake" things up - so that only what is unshakable (God) remains. At the height of day, at noon, the sun becomes dark At night, the moon is red A celestial fireworks comes with meteor shower. The night sky scrolls back, revealing?... In the evening it will be light. THEN - at least half a day later - another earthquake happens. This SECOND ONE is at night - not before noon as the first.

WilliamL is talking about a physical location of Mount Zion in Hebrews 12:22. He says my take on it, comparing this mention of a mountain to Jesus as pure fabrication of imagination... Here is how the NASB translates the pertinent verses: The bold face is how they introduce this passage. Contrast of Sinai and Zion 18 For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, 19 and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command, " IF even A beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned." 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, " I am full of fear and trembling." 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. Here is the Expositor's Bible Commentary on Hebrews 12:18-24. Note 22 "But" is the strong adversative (alla) and introduces a marked contrast. It is not a Sinai type experience that has befallen Christians. They "have come" (the perfect tense points to an accomplished and continuing state) to Mount Zion. This is one of the hills on which the city of Jerusalem was built. It sometimes stands for that city (Matt 21:5), and stands here, of course, for that city as the home of God's people. It is also called "the heavenly Jerusalem" and "the city of the living God." Elsewhere in the NT there is the thought of the Jerusalem above (Gal 4:26, where again there is a contrast with Mount Sinai; cf. also Rev 3:12; 21:2, 10). The author has already spoken of "the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God" (11:10). He is bringing out the thought of the ideal, heavenly city. His mention of "the living God" (see comments on 3:12) emphasizes the thought that this city is no static affair; it is the city of a vital, dynamic, living Being, one who is doing things. Its inhabitants include large numbers of angels. In Daniel, we have this mountain to which I make the comparison: Daniel 2:34 You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:45 Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy." In Revelation 16, we have this end-time event where the mountains will not be found - this is the great leveling of mountain ranges so that the only mountain that remains is the one upon which Jerusalem stands: ...and there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty. 19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. Yet, there will be a Mount Zion upon which the Remnant Jews and the meek who now follow them to embrace the Lord upon which they will encamp. The city of Jerusalem will be the camp of God's people. It even has, in Ezekiel 47:1-12, a source for water which refreshes the waters it touches after the devastations God has wrought which so totally destroyed the life in it. And it is uphill, so that the water flows down from it. Do not forget the last verse of Ezekiel 48: 35 The city shall be 18,000 cubits round about; and the name of the city from that day shall be, ' The Lord is there. '" In the Millennium, Jerusalem stands as the camp of God's people: Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, Again, there are no mountain ranges in the Millennium. The earth has been flattened so that rain is dependent upon obedience (Zec 14:17-18). So not only is Jesus the figurative mountain in the Millennium, the city itself is and it is synonymous with Mount Zion - this is on the earth: not in the spiritual realm of the Kingdom of God where Jesus is now.