markdohle

From the very beginning of the Church there has been development and a deepening of our understanding of the message of Christ. After Jesus rose from the dead, it was thought by all that one had to be a Jew, or a Jewish convert to be a Christian. The the Holy Spirit gave Peter the vision of the animals being brought down in a sheet and told to eat. It was a metaphor about allowing the Gentiles to enter the Church. Then there was saint Paul and his mission. It was a give and take at first and Paul was not that popular in the early Church because the majority were Jews many from the priestly class as well as scribes and pharisees. This is played out in the book of acts. All of the letters in the New Testament were dealing with specific problems of a fledgling church. It is part of the tradition of the church, but there was a lot more going on that was not put in to the canon because they were not problems to be dealt with. There are many early texts that deal with how the sacraments were important, one of them being reconciliation and yes its form did develop over time. Of course Paul covered the Eucharist in Corinthians but not in depth, but he did bring about its centrality in the worship of the early church. Also the early church had structure and people needed to comply to it if they were christian. The church was not some form of invisible body made up of believers but a true gathering of like minded believers. Devotions to the saints also came into being in the first centuries of the church. The honoring of saints began within the first generations of the Catholic Church. In early tradition, it was the martyrs who were remembered. The early martyrs were men and women whose Christianity brought them into friction within Jewish and pagan communities and eventually led to their executions. Altars were erected on top of the tombs of these martyrs, where Mass would be said, especially on the anniversary of the martyr’s death. In time, when permanent churches were able to be built, chapels and eventually basilicas were built on top the resting places of the martyrs. Also devotion to the Blessed Mother started early as well in the church: In understanding history, one can see that many of the obstacles put forth by those who are anti catholic can be seen from a better perspective. The Holy Spirit is continually teaching the church and its people. We deepen our understanding, we do not change the revelation or its central message, the saving will of the Father as shown us through Jesus Christ.

Thank you my friend, my true brother in Christ for your encouragement. Peace Mark

The church has never taught that:

Everyone picks and chooses, that is why some central authority is needed, even if that authority does not always live up to its teaching. As Jesus said, do what they tell you, not what they do. Peace mark

There is a book out called the black papacy written by a devout catholic. He covers thoroughly how evil some of our Popes were. So what? Corruption is everywhere and during the time when the Catholic Church was a powerful political power it did corrupt many, but not the church, for Christ Jesus is the heart of the Church. There have been no corrupt popes for a long time, just men who try to preserve the Christian teaching of the Catholic Church. Christ promised to be with the church until the end of time, but the gates of hell will not destroy it, no matter how low it can sink in different historical periods. Peace Mark

I am not twisting your words, I merely pointed out how Luther changed the canon, was he right in doing so. If not, then get a catholic bible ;-). If what he did was ok, that is fine, but you may have a double standard. Peace Mark

The canon you use was put together by Martin Luther. So according to you it is incomplete since he had no right to change it. Peace Mark

Sorry my friend, again, you said , 'they are lost', you have no way of knowing that. Catholics are not in a false religion. Don't forget your roots are deep within the Catholic tradition. Also the canon was put together by the Catholic Church, so I doubt the way you interpret scripture is according to the mind of the Church that put it together. Catholics are Christian, who believe in the Lord Jesus, so how you believe that Catholic are lost when they believe in the Lord Jesus is beyond me ;-). Your opinion on the matter mean little. The Lord and the Lord only knows each of our hearts.

It is amazing how the elect stand aside others and tell them they are going to hell.....of course in the church today just about everyone gets dammed by Christians like you, the the circle is complete when someone pokes you with some quote like yours above. None of us have the authority, or the right to judge another about their salvation...though I doubt you will understand.

Martin Luther chained the canon of the bible. He also called the epistile of James 'straw'. http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/219-luther-and-canon.html How could anyone stumble by following the Popes words

Your welcome my friend. Peace Mark

Nah, he needs none, I am just saying that I like his six beatitudes that is all..and OMG we disagree, who would have thunk it

Amen!

Lots of people hold up the bible period, yet disagree often aggressively my friend.

Actually Davida you make yourself the spokesperson on earth. Each Christian (good ones) who believe the way you do make your take on scriptures the only one, so we have chaos. The pope is much more humble and again, he is doing nothing wrong. Of course you don't agree. If you ever do agree, I will probably have to go to the ER, the surprise would be too much for me. In any case, thank you for your clarity and child like transparency. Peace mark

Well, ok, if you believe that my friend. He added nothing, if you can show that please explain. He is a holy man who loves Jesus Christ with his whole heart, if you don't believe that, so what ;-) ? I like your passion for the Lord and it is actually helping me to deepen my own. Scripture read in a prayerful manner is my main source. Here are some quotes from this evil Pope: I believe in God - not in a Catholic God; there is no Catholic God. There is God, and I believe in Jesus Christ, his incarnation. Jesus is my teacher and my pastor, but God, the Father, Abba, is the light and the Creator. This is my Being. Pope Francis The love of God is not something vague or generic; the love of God has a name and a face: Jesus Christ. Pope Francis True peace is not a balance of opposing forces, and it is not ‘a lovely façade’ simply covering conflicts and divisions. Rather, peace calls for daily commitment -- it's homemade -- starting from God's gift, from the grace which he has given us in Jesus Christ. Pope Francis

Yes of course you are right, but be at peace that 'some' will not agree.......I can't be convinced by what those who have another perspective say to me, it goes both ways ;-). In the end, even if some don't agree, we are all united with Christ Jesus, if some make 'rash' judgements about that, it means nothing actually. We are told not to judge others at that depth because none of us sees deep enough into the human heart to do that. It is what we humans do, judge and condemn those who think differently. I struggle with that and from the pain I have experienced from the past by that kind of judgment has taught me to not do that with others.....though I have failed from time to time. Peace Mark

Now I got it LOL....see, a clear, hones response that I don't agree with, but you is you. Peace Mark

What response, I did not post on that thread, or have not gotten to your response yet. Your responses don't bother me, you are very clear and honest on where you stand, I like that, even if I hardly agree with you on anything ;-).....except for the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Peace mark

i understand what you are saying. Many who become Catholics, converts, say the same about their past in non-catholic religions. It can go both ways. My experience is not yours ;-), and I am happy that you have found a good place to love and worship the Lord. Peace Mark

Well if someone actually believes the pope is the Anti-Christ, or the Vatican has files on the coming alien invasion and the RCC has something to do with that an alien Anti Christ, then I can understand the reaction. Other than than that, I tend to scratch my head a lot over some of the post given out by the good people here. Christians of all stripes come here and pray with us, even fundamentalist, once they get to know us and actually listen to what we say about some of the issues that are a 'hot' topic here about saints etc., on Worthy, they understand even if they don't agree... Religion and politics do dumb us all down, both are very emotional and can boarder on the psychotic when things get hot. I put myself in that category if I am not careful and think before I speak when insulted, or think I have been ;-). We are complex creatures, wonderfully made by our loving creator. To be fair we have Catholic's, good ones, loving ones, who are really anti anything that is not Catholic and believe that all non-Catholics go to hell, which also makes me cross eyed.....it would seem that much of what think of true faith is really 'sarx', from the flesh. I think Westboro Baptist Church and ISIS bring this out when it is extreme, then lesser varieties cloaked in piety. Peace Mark

Yes I agree, he said nothing new, so did not add to the Scriptures at all. However there are many authors and speakers and preachers who don't change, but add, from their own vocabulary a slant that makes others think. Peace mark

From my own perspective I believe that people here really overreacted to the Popes six new Beatitudes. I understand the feelings that people have here about the Catholic Church, but I think what if we Christians really took the original Beatitudes of Jesus to heart we would not be in the position we are in now in the United States. He brought this out because they are needed I believe. Proposed six new beatitudes from Pope Francis Change comes from the bottom up in any culture. Our leaders can't do that. If we live our faith it will show in how we treat others and love them. Below are six new beatitudes the pope wants us to live out. And no, he is not going to put them in the bible. It seems that some are upset over what he proposed, but I think it is good. It can make us more mindful of those around us, and how important it is for us to truly live out our faith in Jesus Christ and to see him in everyone. Pope Francis then for the modern era: "Blessed are those who remain faithful while enduring evils inflicted on them by others, and forgive them from their heart; "Blessed are those who look into the eyes of the abandoned and marginalized, and show them their closeness; "Blessed are those who see God in every person, and strive to make others also discover him; "Blessed are those who protect and care for our common home; "Blessed are those who renounce their own comfort in order to help others; "Blessed are those who pray and work for full communion between Christians."

If we want a culture free of abortions, not sure laws will do that, then our society has to change from the bottom up. To make abortions illegal will only bring into existence a very large group of those who break the law. Over the board, Christians get just as many abortions as anyone else, and that includes the most conservative ones. Most people get one abortion that it is it and many regret it for the rest of their lives. Perhaps we Christians should take stock on how we have lost so much ground in the past two generations. Our politicians only reflect what is going on in our culture. I doubt Trump is pro life....the way he treats women would seem to show a disregard for life in general....he does not love women, they are things, objects to him, why should the child in the womb of a woman be any different. http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/40519-why-do-so-many-churchgoers-have-abortions

The Spirit at work in prison (How God is teaching me through these men) Writing prisoners as I have said before was something I just fell into. I really am not a letter writer, in fact the letters I have written to friends and family are very few, probably less than 20. So being 68 you can see how few they are. Now I am writing a number of prisoners and finding that it I am learning a great deal from these good men, who are seeking Christ in the midst of being in prison. Many of them are one time offenders as opposed to career criminals. I am writing a prisoner now who killed someone in a robbery, I will call him Joseph. It happened when he was very young and at this time he has been in prison for over 20 years and has no chance of being paroled. He understands that he deserves to be there and in his walk with the Lord is seeking to help others who are in prison with him. He was on death row for a time but his sentence got commuted. He has his ups and downs, but his growth in his trust in God points to the infinite compassion of our Lord. Being in prison has helped him to understand the suffering of Christ on the cross. In dealing with his own understanding on what he did, has allowed him to understand the suffering and death that Jesus went through for him in a profound way, that many may not be able to comprehend. Below is part of my discussion on this subject. “About the Cross of Christ; you are drawing deeper into its mystery, about how God became flesh and suffered for us and with us. To ponder that kind of love can only bring deeper healing for you my friend. The mysteries of our faith become clearer, and then draw us to seek deeper understanding; it is a lifelong process for all of us. Being in prison, this reality can be more real for you just because of where you are. You are very dear to the Lord and have deep humility, never fear the truth about yourself or your need for grace; it is by that deeper healing and peace come”. While he knows that he is being punished fairly for what he did, still the thought of being in prison for perhaps the next 40 years can get him down. He did talk about how he is trying to help others, to minister to them as well as allowing others to minister to him as well. As he was talking the scripture came to mind from Romans: 8:28: “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose”. This is a powerful quote from St. Paul, and is not ‘positive thinking’, it tells of the reality of how God’s love and grace works though all of life’s circumstances if we but give ourselves over to his care and love. This is not easy, letting go the desire to control our lives, even if such a desire is an illusion. “Joseph, you can find peace wherever you are. People outside of prison, as you know can have their own prison cells that they live in but can’t get out. You are in prison, but inwardly you are growing in freedom. The Lord might want you there to help others, to heal souls and in your prayers for them, rest assured, you are heard and God’s healing love is never passive but continually seeks all who are there as well as those who work there. Each human being is precious in the Lord’s sight, no exceptions. When you pray for others, you may be angry at them but hatred and prayer can’t go together. To pray is to love, even if one has to grit ones teeth…..I know I do when I am struggling with someone and am angry at them." When St. Paul stated that all things work out for the good for those who love Christ, he meant what you are experiencing now, the ability to take life circumstances and instead of becoming bitter, you seek to find ways to grow in the Love of God and others, in that you grow in Union with the Heart of Christ Jesus”. So yes, these men in the way they express themselves and in their struggles, deepen my own perspective about the Christian life and the mercy and healing that comes through Jesus Christ.