JesusisGod2

Praise the Lord and amen. Now, if this were a true statement there would be no hell. Nothing to do or to choose to do. Christ did it all for all. Hell was not created nor intended for man, but for satan and his followers, and there is indeed a hell. As far as a choice, ther is most definately is a choice. We can either choose to try and get into heaven by trusting and observing the law of which all save Jesus have fallen short of thus far and I do nort see anyone succeding in the future either. Or we can choose to believe, trust, and rely upon Christ through faith, that He has taken our sins upon Himself through His baptism, judged our sins through His crucifiction, cleansed our sins through His blood, gave His eternal life by defeating death through His ressurection. He is God who has done this for us. All of the above are works of God not man, and as you said above, He did it all, and when we submitt to Him, He continues to do it all. It is Him that performs good works through us, if we have indeed been crucified with Him through Faith in the above. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. We have been crucified with Christ, and it is Christ who lives in us. Note Paul says that the life he lives, he lives lives by the faith of the Son of God Notice he does not say in, he says of. It was the Faith of Jesus in the Father that allowed Him to be the perfect sacrifice before God. This very faith Jesus imparts to us as a gift from Him. He gets all the glory period. Eph 2 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The very faith that we have to get saved is not of ourselves, it is the faith that Christ has in the Father that He gives to us as a gift that makes it all possible, not of works, all boasting belongs to Jesus and our boast is in Him. the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, It is by this faith by which we are born again. There are no works which we could do that would justify our salvation before the Father, it is the finished work of Christ and our faith (that is provided by God) in this finished work of Christ that we may boldly approach the throne of grace.

Praise the Lord and amen.

Paul (Colossians 2:16-17) refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ that is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. To Christians every day is one of Sabbath rest because we have ceased from our spiritual labor and rest in the salvation that is found in Christ Jesus (Hebrews 4:9-11). The apostles (who were Jews) warned the Gentiles about many kinds of sins throughout their writings, but breaking the Sabbath was never mentioned. You will never find any command in the OT or NT where Gentiles were ever commanded to keep the 4th commandment of the Decalogue. When the Apostles met in council at Jerusalem (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on Gentile believers. Nowhere in the Old Testament are any Gentiles ever commanded to observe the Sabbath just as no Gentiles were condemned for failing to keep it. Nowhere in the NT, after the cross, do we see anyone commanded to observe the Sabbath. This seems very strange if Sabbath observance was meant to be an

I also would like to ask a question. Is the Sabbath something that we observe, or is it something that we enter into? Interesting that 6 days have a night and day, except the seventh day or Sabbath day which seems to be eternal. it really mentions no day or night like the other days. It also appears to be the only day that God blessed and sanctified. So is this day something that we enter into or simply observe once a week?

I am in total agreement with you Dennis. I in no way meant to say that we cease from works, but we cease from our works and I had this in view to salvation. Let me clarify what I meant When we enter into the Sabbath rest (which I was keeping in topic, not really discussing works persay) which occurs the moment we have been born again, we have ceased from our own works and rely upon and have faith in Christ finished works. We now look to Christ who directs us and cease from works of the law for justification before the Father. Christ has finished the work of redemption and we can now enter into His Sabbath rest through faith in Him through which we recieve justification. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. The works we now do now are already prepared for us, we must seek out God that we should walk in them. They are from God. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world So then we have ceased from our own works and have joined in unity with Christ and seek the works of God which He has prepared for us. So I think we are in agreement, I was just hitting on something different in regards to the Sabbath and how we enter Gods rest throgh Jesus Christ and cease from our own works with a view to salavation. Not really on the topic of good works per say, which the only good works are works that are wrought in God through Jesus and it is allowing Jesus to work through our vessels. In Jesus kevin

Oh sorry I didnt respond to this question. Yes I most definately do.

Thanks for your input guys, I am still learning it but I really like what I see on so far. I can see it as a really great tool for study.

Interesting post penfold. I have a question on this mans thought procedures however. Would God have Noah call the dinosauers to board the ark only to die shortly after because of a climate change? I mean God would know what changes in climate would occur after the flood. After all (Besides being all knowing) this is not the first time that water had covered the entire earth. Also according to most scientist, they believe that the dino's lived and died off millions of years ago (Of course thier carbon dating could be way off and also there is really no proof to the age of the earth according to scripture, it leaves it pretty open, it does however give us an idea of how long man has been around and it is no where near this). This would not fit in with the timing of Noah and the flood which happenend approx 4-5,000 years ago. Maybe some but not all, I for onr do not believe that ther was any dinosauers on the ark, again I state my reasons for it above.

Man, I second this statement by BlindSeeker. Well done, The Spirit of God, speaks through your post Dennis, I was very much enlightened. I see the Sabbath rest that we enter into is rest from our works and depedance and faith upon the works that Christ has already done. This is the rest Hebrews speaks of and this what the born-again experience is all about. Thanks for the super post.

You know I keep hearing this "ice-age" theory ever since I was in school. (you know, the same schools that now totally exclude God) And yet there is no mention of an ice age or a meteor hiiting earth in the scriptures. I know this has been taught and ingrafted in our minds through so-called education, however they also teacch that evolution ids fact too. I myself do not believe that there ever was an ice age. In Genesis 1 it speaks of water covering the earth and later in Genesis it speaks of the earth again being covered with water, I dont recall anything that mentions an ice-age. This is a theory and there is no proof, however, more and more is proved of a great flood and water covering the earth. I believe that something of this significance would be mentioned in the scriptures.

OOOOOPS, never mind, I just found the answer to my question.

Amen Brother, By the way how to I access the maps?

Does anyone use e-Sword in thier studies? I downloaded it a couple weeks ago and have found it pretty useful thus far. I dont know how to use all the options yet but like what I have learned so far. Anyone else? For those who are interested in taking a peek at it, it can be found Here

Actually to discern is to judge. A better word would that we are not to condemn others. If we see a brother caught up in a fault, how are we supposed to go and correct this brother unless we judge that he is caught up in error. I am in the middle of doing a study on this word "judge" and here are some interesting tidbits from Strongs dictonary. The word as used in Matt 7:1 Those that are highlighted are what I have in mind and I believe is the principle used in Matt 18 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Some have taken this word judge and have gone to the extremes with it, so much so, that the church tolerates sins of all nature immorality, such as known couples living together though they are not married, homosexuality, openly living together as a "couple". How are we to address problems within the church unless we judge whether they are right or wrong? How to we approach a brother or sister caught up in sin unless we first judge that it is indeed sin? We are to condemn sin, not the sinner for if they are caught up in sin, they are judged already, however we are to seek to restore such a one if they are a Christian, or if not we are to seek to introduce them to the Savior. Jesus asks us a question using this same word usage of judge to ask us don't we judge what is right? Luke 12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? Another word used is found in Luke 12:58 Luke12:58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. This of course is an actual person who holds the title of judge. This also the usage found in Luke 18:6 6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. Which is Here is an interesting verse, here Christ is telling us to judge, using righteous judgement John 7:24 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. This word used for "judge" is the same word for judge used above in the first definition that I pasted. Here is another usage of the word as found in 1 Cor 14:9 So there is more to the word "judge" than most of us interpret through our limited english language. A better word that most equate with judge is the word condemn, we are not to condemn anyone, that is for the righteous judge to decide at the great white throne. We are however to judge between right and wrong, between good and evil, between spiritual and carnal. If we see some caught up in sin we are to judge with and eye to restore. Here are a few verses that I find interesting: 1 Cor 5: 9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. How are we not to associate with such that are in the church, unless we first determine that they are caught up in such. The very next verse Paul tells us that we are to judge within the church: 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES Paul is pretty forward here in that we are to judge within the church, so much so that he says that we are to remove the wicked man from amongst us. That same word krinō--- kree'-no is used for judge. Now here is the purpose for this found in 2 Thess 3: 14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. 15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. We see the purpose of this judgement is not condemnation but with a view to restoration, to call to repentance one that is caught up in such. We have a responsibility to do such. satan loves for us to have this false type of love that we do not judge and let all brothers and sisters do whatever without accountability to God. We see Christians living unwed together in immorality, some proclaiming to be active homosexuals and yet they seek the clergy, drunks, thiefs, drug addicts, etc... I believe that some are indeed Christians, but they have never been confronted with their sin, but it has been tolerated and therefore there is no conviction of sin within the church these days. Therefore we see no prayer in schools, ten commandments removed from court rooms, injustice in our court rooms, the list goes on and on. Because Christians are in fear for judging sin for what it is..sin. Therefore the world looks upon us and laughs and mocks and I am not so sure they arent justified in doing so, why? because if we dont judge within the church, the church will most definately be judged by those without. We are not to judge outside the church, but we most definitely are to judge within the church if we are ever to see Christians stand up in truth of the gospel and deliverance from sin. We need to quit candy coating love by replacing it with toleration. If we seen someones house on fire, would we try and save those people? well the same is going on in our vessels, many are on fire and don't even know it, we can quench this fire through the water of the Word of God. Well I didn't intend to write a book, so I will close for now. In Jesus kevin

Which shows that you don't understand what forgiveness is, or what it entails. We cannot forgive Williams. We are not his victims, and only his victims or the at least the families of his victims have the right to forgive him. The government cannot forgive him. The government is put in place to uphold the legal system, and the law of the land says he deserves death. The death penalty does not contradict the Bible, nor the character of God, seeing that God set the death penalty in place in ancient Israel. Amen again Bro!

Unfortunately, this does nothing for the debate. Avidan, you still are not addressing the issue. What love will you give society who is threatened by criminals? What love will you give the victims' loved ones? How will you prevent repeat offenses? Please stop acting so self-righteous in this debate, OK? That isn't answering the challenges. ]I said Do not release Williams three times. I said do not kill him. I said forgive him. Let him live. Then Jesus said, "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And as they divided His garments, they cast lots. Now the people stood by observing and the rulers among them were also deriding Him, saying, 'He saved others; let Him save Himself, if this is the Christ, the chosen of God.' "(Luke 23:34-35) Jesus forgave those who tortured, humiliated, and drove spikes into HIS wrist and feet. So will I. Does this add to the disscusion? Or am I being "self-righteous as Jesus. But Jesus still died didn't he? You seem to be missing an important point. God has a death penalty. Someone had to die for sin. Jesus took your place, when you deserved to die. Jesus asked for their forgiveness, but He did not ask God to remove the "death penalty." The death penalty for sin has not been removed. Jesus, on the cross suffered all of God's judgement on sin that you would not have to. He died in order that we might be spared God's judgement, namely death on account of our sin. If a person rejects Christ, they will die under God's "death penalty." God's forgiveness is available, but it is not automatic. You have to accept the Christ and His finished work upon the cross, or you will die the second death, which a much, much, much worse consequence than physical death. So, really trying to use God and the Bible to argue against the death penalty, is just silly. God, who is unchanging, commanded the death penalty to be excersised in certain situations. He has a death penalty in place today for those who reject the Messiah, and according to Isaiah 66:24, during the millenium we will be able to see the carcasses of those who were God's enemies laying in the fields. God is not anti-death pentalty, you cannot live by a higher standard than He does. Amen Shiloh, I am in total agreement. I have had these debates with others on numerous occassions and have decided to just read this one until now. This could not have been better worded. Gods judgement for an unruley child was to have that child stoned to death. Deuteronomy 21:20-22 20 "They shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.' 21 "(A)Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so (B)you shall remove the evil from your midst, and ©all Israel will hear of it and fear. 22 "If a man has committed a sin (D)worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, God Himself, instituted the death penalty.

Anne, I'm sorry. I was just having a bit of fun and making the point that we really don't know from scripture what happened to them. I personally think that there is a lot of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and a lot happened between the two. I don't think there is any proof of it, but things in the real world just don't line up with scripture unless there is a lot that happened before the Father gave the Word the OK to replinish this earth and create Adam and Eve. Don't really care who disagrees, for in reality it doesn't make any difference in salvation and does give me quite a peace of mind over it all. But the Unicorn really was out playing...... Hey Lord, we got your green aligators and long neck geese............. but we just couldn't find no unicorns. Irish Rovers. Hi Otherone, I too agree with the fact there was a lot of time and possibly devine judgement between Genesis 1:1 and when God said let there be light. I have posted a little on my thoughts above. As you say there really isnt any solid proof to this, nor is there any real mention of how old the earth really is, God does not see it as important for us to know this at this time for ever Hie reasonning, however we do know that mans existance is not millions of years old.

I agree.

I am not totally opposed to this train of thought either, I know that they have never found a complete skeleton, as a matter of fact most of the dino's you see in the museums are approx 90% model and not bones at all, from my understanding.

GWB cant really talk about it because there really is nothing to report, maybe some areas may have 2% unemployement others 12% and growing. Its really pretty sad.

Well, the "boom" isn't happening here in New England, I've been out of work since August. I have applied to the few job openings with no results. I need a job. It would be nice if the government would send some jobs my way. In Him; corey Nor in Illinois, if anything more people are losing jobs. I hear rumors that my plant plans to layoff around Christmas.

I tend to somewhat agree with this, it says that in the beggining God created. This has nothing to do with the first day, it really gives no account on when it was created or how old the earth is, it just says the beggining. Well satan was also a created being and this must have been sometime in between the first day and in the beggining. And yet there really is no mention of satan or the angels creation account in Genesis. satan was already there when God placed Adam in the garden, as a matter of fact good and evil was already in existance, something that Adam knew nothing about until he ate of the tree. There are only three acts of creation mentioned in Genesis 1: verse 1 Heavens and the earth. verse 20-21 Animal life (which could have also included the dino's at this point, David does mention leviathan, of which would make me totally wrong on the divine judgement account and prior flood but then again some think that leviathan was simply a whale.) verse 26-27 the creation of man. One day we will know all things, but it appears that this something that God chooses not to reveal to man at this time. Many believe that there was also a flood before the first day account and perhaps this is when the dino's were distroyed. I am not so sure that I agree with this but it is possible. One of the reasons that I can at least entertain this thought is in Genesis 1:9 Genesis 1:9 (King James Version) 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. The waters were gathered together into one place and dry land appeared, so the dry land wasnt called into existance, it appeared after called called the waters to be gathered together in one place. Now if you look at Genesis 1:1 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. There are some that believe in Genesis 1:2 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Some believe by the statement formless and void, that there was a divine judgement or that simply this was the first stages of creation, on this I would love to hear other comments. Anyway I tend to think that there was a prior flood and this was possibly a divine judgement prior to the creation of man and that this was the time that satan was created and rebelled and was cast down to earth, but this is pure speculation I must admit. Perhaps our Jewish brothers that are versed in Hebrew would be able to correct me or perhaps agree. I believe that were two words that could have been used for "formless and void" Tohu and Bohu. One being the origional "Chaos" discription of the state of the first stage of creation, and the second could mean divine judgement according to Scoffields comments. Any how, I find it curious that since the creation of man, there is really no mention of these extraorinary creatures speciffically. But I will also admit I am no biblical scholar and this is just my own thoughts on the possibilities of what happened to the dino's. For those of you who disagree with me, please be gentle In Jesus kevin

Sounds like my dog. I love squirrel, havent been hunting in a few years though.

I am in the same situation here in Illinois, Steve. But not as bad as you guys in Wisconsin and Minnisota. I have lived in both and they do tend to get a bit coldr than Chicago, but Chicago gets tha that moist cold that bites to the bones. Brrrrr I work in a steel mill and it gets cold especially when we do a change in the stands and get all wet, man I am not looking forward to the colder weather coming.