2 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

I'm not arguing with you brother, ...but can't we say the Holy Spirit is what you and others are "referring" to as the "third" text, ...for me personally, ...I prefer to go to the Author whenever I have a "textual" problem?

It's a simple prayer, "Holy Spirit, I don't understand the spiritual principle You are speaking about in this verse(s), ...please explain it to me, ...sometimes He does so immediately, ...and sometimes He has to explain other things to me before I can understand His answer to my question...

Lord bless

I never referred or implied that the third text that is needed is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit helps us understand scripture regardless if it is the KJV or other versions. However I do agree that if we come up to something in scripture we do not understand that we ask the Lord for wisdom so that we can understand what He is trying to say to us through the passage that we are reading.

16 hours ago, The_Patriot2019 said:

We actually have dozens, and translators pull from multiple ones. We have 2 that are mostly complete, but not entirely. So translators use those 2 as the base and pull from others to verify accuracy and fill in the gaps.

The only issue is none of them are the original texts. But, I don't think that's an issue at all seeing as this Book has Divine protection.

That was my point. We have 2 main Greek texts that are used. I understand that there are fragments of greek texts that are used to make the 2 main ones. What I was driving at is that there isn't a 3rd main text that supports one or the other. It is hard to compare 2 texts without having a tie breaker. Otherwise it is a serious waste of time to say one is better than the other without knowing what we are comparing them against. 

10 hours ago, Cletus said:

I must disagree with this statement.  what one needs do is pray that God would lead them into understanding in truth in scripture and then study it out.  you do not need a third text, all you need is The Holy Spirit to lead you into understanding and truth... scripture says this.  and I have been led to the KJV and find other versions lacking or saying something completely different.  the KJV is the most reliable version period.  read what ever helps you grow... i.e.  the version God speaks to you in... but the end goal should be to get a KJV and read that. it is hard at first and one must really study.  its almost like learning a different language.  this is why i do not hold to a strict KJV only stance, but i wil be quick to say KJV is the best.  just because someone lacks the literacy skills to comprehend the kjv they go with another... BUT... you can ask God anything and if its His wil He will make it come to pass.  His children knowing His Word is well within the scope of His will. 

So here is the rub. The choice of Bible versions is not a textual one but on of preference. You choose the KJV because you prefer it over other versions. No one can really know if the KJV is perfect because it is a translation which did have Anglican and other influences in it. What I find interesting is that the KJV was revised several times. Why? Because no translation is perfect and evolves as language and word usage evolves. Do I think the KJV is a good version: Yes I do. However I don't not hold it to be perfect. It has it's issues to. 

10 hours ago, Cletus said:

Rom 8:1  KJV  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:1 NIV  Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

this is a prime example of how the NIV is watered down.  the part who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit is not something to scoff at and holds significant meaning.  it clearly shows one needs to be a practicing christian... not just a name it and claim it christian. 

lets see what your NIV says on this verse, and please do respond by quoting me and post this verse out of your NIV bible:

Mat 17:21  Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

and this verse also:

Mar 9:44  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

and here is one that really gets me scratching my head on why its taken out...

Rom 16:24  The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

i used to read the niv.  when someone told me it was weak sauce at best... i prayed for God to show me and i prayerfully studied.  i didnt argue with my mentors like i knew everything.  i investigated with an open mind.  if you would do the same you would be eager to educate yourself in the what saith thou dialect. 

 

now what the pro NIV-ers always respond with is those verses are not needed or there is a footnote that says blah blah blah.  nope.  NIV took it out.  it is a lesser version with footnotes that read otherversions have verses like... or see this other verse. 

 

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

the word every is :

G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Total KJV occurrences: 1238

your NIV does not have EVERY word. 

 

Now to answer this argument. As I said before, these versions were translated from 2 completely different texts. You cannot make the argument that the NIV omits stuff. You are basing your argument on the fact the the KJV is perfect and is the absolute translation to compare other with. My question is this : How do you know the Textus Receptus doesn't have additions or subtractions in itself? You won't know because you don't have the original authors to talk to about it. So this argument about additions and subtractions from the NIV or any other version is moot because they are translated from two completely different Greek texts. 

Ultimately, and most KJV only supporters will deny this, your chose of Bible version is based upon preference. And this preference lead you to using the KJV as your choice of Bible version. I prefer the NIV and NASB because they are easier to read and lend to reading in language that we use today. Neither is right or wrong. God uses both translations to bring people to Christ as well as to help the grow in the faith. 

When I eat a hamburger I don't think about food poisoning. I enjoy my burger with all the fixes. Then if I get food poisoning later then so be it. I am still going to enjoy my burger. 

10 hours ago, Cletus said:

you wont find that as someone who has really studied knows the truth... the NIV has hundreds of omissions.  ones with significant spiritual meaning.  some verses are taken out all together.  MIA.  The NIV is a watered down version. 

There is a major issue with this statement. Remember that there are two different Greek manuscripts. The NIV comes from the Westcott and Hort text and the KJV comes from the Textus Receptus. The issue is that one cannot say that the NIV has errors because you can't compare just between two manuscripts. How can one, without a shadow of a doubt, say that one greek text is more correct than the other without actually going to the original writers and seeing what they wrote. The only way that one can be sure one is more correct than the other is to find a 3rd greek manuscript that leans more towards one than the other. But one does not exists. 

The NIV is not actually a translation. It is a transliteration (Transliteration gives the word from a different language in letters that you can understand so as to be able to pronounce it). What this whole KJV only discussion comes down to is preference. However the KJV only group will deny that it is actually a preference. I was saved using the NIV I use the NIV in church and will defend my faith using the NIV. The KJV is a good translation just not the only good one out there. If we want to get really nit-picky I think the NASB is way better than the NIV and the KJV.

10 hours ago, Cletus said:

i encourage people to study this for themselves.  like those more noble than those in Thessalonica.

I have thus my response. 

10 hours ago, WBO said:

Psalm 12:6-7 King James Version (KJV)

⁶ The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

⁷ Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt PRESERVE them from this generation FOR EVER.

 

God’s word is pure to perfection. And According to this Scripture it is God’s job to preserve His Word forever. I can respect if you don’t think the KJV is the perfect Bible. But Just know that there is a Perfect Bible. 

Classic KJV only verse selection to somehow prove that the KJV is absolutely perfect. This verse has nothing to do with a translation. With KJV onlyism the translation is the focal point. Most KJV only supporters use the translation to interpret the Greek instead of actually translating the Greek and then seeing if the KJV matches the correct translation. The whole view is completely backwards. 

Another thing to point out is that we only have 2 Greek manuscripts. We need to find a third that would corroborate one or the other. This would actually cause the argument to end but of course there is no third manuscript. As mentioned before a translation is a translation and none are perfect. 

46 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

All need to read from the KJV just as Paul did, and as Jesus quoted from when He spoke.

 

I can't tell if this was a serious response or a facetious response. 

1 minute ago, Neighbor said:

Ah the memories of the pimples of my youth. And the pre-diabetic  condition of my kidneys today. Chocolate, evil every day, stay away from it, do not dwell upon it at all.

Have a carrot you can juice it. Carrot nice!

Haha I guess so. Still doesn't beat the  sugar high that requires an extra dose of insulin. But I digress. 

3 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

I always wondered who that person was that bought the Lime Jello.....now we know......lol.....

As long as the Jello doesn't have cat food in it (remember Christmas Vacation?) hehe

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Neighbor said:

Tofurky is nice.

 . .

 . .

 . .

 . .

With Lime Jello dessert

LOL

The answer to the OP original post question is a resounding: YES! How else are we going to get the expensive chocolate candy that we steal from our kids candy collection. I can't afford it otherwise. 

It's is cold. enough said LOL

For me the discussion on the gap theory would be a futile discussion. The reason being is that I believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture. When God says he created in 6 days and rested on the 7th I believe they are literal days. God does not use metaphors, word pictures or anything to give any reason why it would not be literal days. I find it interesting that many times Christian's try to find some spiritual meaning in something God says when in reality they should just read God's Word at face value. God is a literal God and when he does speak in word pictures and such there is no question that He is. 

9 minutes ago, Sower said:

We were a one income family. As stewards, we raised/taught our children.
Parents are solely responsible for their children. Not the government.
We taught our kids truth, the schools were teaching an agenda. (Note the OP!)
It is not the job of the government to mandate what curriculum is to be used in school.
The vast number of parents have no idea how/what their children are being taught in school.
My wife and I, and many other Christian friends discovered this in the early eighties.
It was a huge step, and we took them home to train them up, not the government.
Teachers hands have been tied, and only test scores count. To keep receiving funding.
This is an age old discussion, yet the majority of parents DO NOT want to hear.
That would hold them accountable.
We discovered back then the schools started using a new curriculum, including "Values Clarification"
Simply put, it changes the values of the child that they learned at home, to this new
government standard, just like you are reading about in this thread!
 

Like I said I give kudos to those that homeschool. It is a personal choice. My wife and I chose not to. However, I do know what my kids are learning because we are involved with their homework, their teachers and everything else they do in their lives. But that is because we are parents and we believe that as parents it is our responsibility to instill in our kids what is right and we pray that when they are faced with something at school that is wrong they question it and aren't afraid to question it. Yes I agree the school system is flawed and I totally agree the government has messed things up. But we can't blame a system because parents aren't willing to be parents and teach their kids the difference between right and wrong. They don't want to teach the difference between male and female and thus the school system does the teaching for them. 

 

34 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Jay,parents are not allowed to tell children the truth anymore ,if the government find out you're teaching them biblical principles in this area ,they can take the children from your home and social service could be on your doorstep the same counts for teachers ,they can't tell the children that God created male and female.

We're living in days I never expected to see in my lifetime

Jesus come soon...

Then that is the price we pay for following Christ. I don't care what government says I teach my children what is right and if the state takes my kids away because I teach them the truth then so be it. I will not be removed from what I believe is right. 

So as parents we do have a choice and according to God's Word I am allowed to teach my kids what is right. This is where that passage of scripture comes into play and is applied appropriately, "But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men!" Acts 5:29. 

15 hours ago, Sower said:

Another reason why we removed our kids from government schools thirty five years ago' and taught them at home.

I think we are too quick to blame the government for raising kids when the truth is the government is raising our kids because parents are not performing their responsibilities of teaching their kids what is right and wrong. Parents are too busy excelling in their careers and let government become the babysitter which is disastrous. However I do applaud and commend those that choose to homeschool and if someone has the patience and the ability and the desire then by all means homeschool. It's really a calling in my opinion. 

15 hours ago, angels4u said:

 

There is an issue with this poster that should be pointed out. As christians our way of raising our kids should stay in line with the Word of God which does not change regardless of how our society changes. Scripture is very clear about gender and the roles men and women play have in life. If I as a parent teach my kids God's way then my hope is that they teach their kids the same way. I can raise my kids the same as my parents because society isn't what dictates how I raise my kids. God's word dictates it and I can choose to follow it or not. Just my opinion.

19 minutes ago, Alive said:

Ya--that's it. That poor guy that got left on the roof!

Its one of my wife's favorite Christmas movies.

21 minutes ago, TheAimes said:

“Can I refill your eggnog? Get you something to eat, drive you into the middle of nowhere, and leave you for dead?” 

There's so many that pop into my mind but ... I should leave them there.  

Clark : [Revealing his Christmas "bonus"] It's a one year membership to the Jelly of the Month Club.

Eddie : Clark, that's the gift that keeps on giving the whole year.

Just now, Alive said:

I can't watch movies like the exorcist or any gory movies--never have been able to.

My wife loves the old black and white holiday movies. One of her favorites is 'The Bishop's Wife'.

I like the part where the old guy's sherry glass stays full....hillarious.

The skating scene is great, too.

We like that one with Tim Allen and whatshername where they were going to go on a cruise or something and then the daughter comes home. Dan Akroyd is in it. Funny stuff.

Christmas with the Kranks.

8 minutes ago, TheAimes said:

A fellow Christmas Vacation fan I see - it's truly the best! I watch it every Christmas Eve and can quote probably every line.  

Oh yeah! I use the quotes from the movie all the time. 

5 hours ago, The_Patriot2019 said:

please....nothing wrong with a good christmas movie on occasion. Though, Ill admit, Hallmark doesnt have anything I would call true Christmas movies. My favorite Christmas movies, that I watch every year, are the Santa Clause Movies (all 3) with Tim Allen, and of course, the Die Hard Movies. You just can't have christmas without them.

Definitely the first Santa Clause (the others were meh) and oh yeah Die Hard for the win!

Hallmark only has one plot line and then changes the characters and the props. 

2 hours ago, TheAimes said:

Don't forget Elf (mentioned above), Christmas Vacation, and Home Alone! 

It's not Christmas without them IMO either

I absolutely agree!!!!

16 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

I wonder if “The Exorcist” will be playing on “ The Hallmark Channel” anytime soon? Perhaps a double-feature with “ IT”.......lol..

Then maybe my interest in Hallmark Channel would be awakened LOL.