Heb 13:8

Yup, and this earthquake is near the A of D when the two witnesses are killed, Rev 11:13.

Thess says these people do NOT escape, which are non believing Gentiles that will not escape the wrath of God in the last 3.5 years. Rev 9:6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

You've mentioned Herod and Jesus birth multiple times when discussing Rev 12:1-5. You're doing it now, now you're going back to Herod. Are you not referring to the 70th week here????????? Back and forth we go.....................

Well, words are important when discussing exegesis. No, the word escape is in relation to Rev 12:6, 14 when they actually do escape into the wilderness in the latter 3.5 years. Keep it simple. Matt 24:15-21 and Luke 21:20-24 are parallel scriptures and is speaking of future events. Remember, commentaries in the 17 1800's were not aware of Rev 12:1-5 in the heavens on 9/23/17. So their interpretation is flawed. Luke 21:8 was written 2000 years ago.. Luke 21:8 He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

Iam, why then do you believe the red dragon is referring to Herod. You're always going back and forth from Herod to the 70th week, it's like you can't make up your mind. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17 and the events in the sign ARE ALL FUTURE!! The sign has nothing to do with Herod.

I understand the Dragon is Satan, I'm not debating that. Scripture tells us who the heads and horns represent, these are kings and kingdoms, via people who Satan has authority over inside the 70th week. Do you believe in demonic possession, Isa 14:12-15, Ez 28:11–19 ? Isa 14:9 The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you-- all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones-- all those who were kings over the nations. Isa 14:16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: "Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, Ez 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

Hmm... Zech 14:5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' Rev 16:18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.

I agree!! Rev 14:14-16 is referring to pre-trib rapture. Non chronological all day long bro......

No, peace and safety is when Israel is living without walls, gates and bars in the first 3.5 years. Ez 38 and sudden destruction will begin at the A of D. Ez 39 will end the 70th week. Ez 38:11 You will say, "I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people--all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. 1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. Notice the word "escape" here below. This is referring to the latter 3.5 years, in which earthly Israel escapes into the wilderness for the latter 3.5 years in Rev 12:6, 14. It's clear to me that the sudden destruction occurs at the A of D. It's actually quite simple. Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." 1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. The Day of the Lord coming like a thief in 1 Thess 5:2 is referring to the A of D, and the latter 3.5 years. Paul later says in his letter in 2 Thess 2:2 that the Day of the Lord comes when the Antichrist sits in the temple, via 2 Thess 2:4 1Th 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. The word "revealed" is actually mentioned three times in this chapter. Paul shows us that the restrainer which is the church will be removed prior to the antichrist sitting in the temple. The Day of the Lord will begin at the A of D. 2 Thess 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness a is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 2 Thess 2:6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 2 Thess 2:7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 2 Thess 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Will not Jesus come on the 2,520th day, I think so.

Do you believe the heads and horns and crowns might have a deeper meaning and purpose? Was the beast system and the mark of the beast in Rev 13 set up in Herod's day, or is it still future. Who are the ten kings, ten kingdoms and seven hills in Herod's day? Take your time Iam, I'm here all day. Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings. Daniel 11:36 Then the king will do as he pleases and will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been decreed must be accomplished. Rev 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. Rev 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. Rev 17:12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

Ok, so prove me wrong with my post after that.

Jesus coming suddenly as a thief to rapture His church is not the sudden destruction at the A of D. These are two separate events. The antichrist creates false peace in the first 3.5 years. The rapture has occurred and people will be looking for answers through that peace.

Sickles is a metaphor for God's awesome power of rapturing the church. Seriously??? Revelation is written through symbolism Iam, Christianity 101.

Then prove it. Where am I in error. Can you show me?

Why would the two witnesses be ascending to heaven when Jesus and the saints are coming down from heaven? The beast rises before His second coming Iam. Layering Iam layering, non chronological............... Rev 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. Rev 9:2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. Rev 11:7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Rev 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

They do mean what they say, believing that Rev 12:1-5 came to pass on 9/23/17 and that the church was conceived 2000 years ago takes a leap of faith. Tradition isn't always right 1 sheep. God bless.

No, Rev 12:1-5 is referring to corporate entities, not singular. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17. 1. The woman - Israel 2. The child - The body of Christ 3. The red dragon - The antichrist system (Rev 13-17) The church ruling with Christ with an iron scepter is in Rev 2:26-27. The church being male is found here... Gal 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all sons (huios) of God through faith, 1 Thess 5:5 for you are all sons (huios) of light and sons (huios) of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The Apostle John intentionally made a grammatical error in Revelation 12:5 by modifying masculine huios (son) with neuter arsen. He is clearly connecting this particular male child with the male child in Isaiah 66, which is a corporate entity. Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual. This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here. The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. If these passages occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances below. I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ). Even Paul said he felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8 because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet, and as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter. Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon) the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon) was snatched up to God and to his throne. No Rev 12 has nothing to do with events 2000 years ago, the Great Sign only came to pass on 9/23/17. Rev 12:1-5 is referring to the birth of the church. The conception of the church is found in Acts 2:1-4, and the birth is the resurrection and rapture. God bless.

Well, the pregnant woman is Israel but the child being born through rapture is the body of Christ. The Greek word harpazo can be found in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. God bless.

The Apostle John intentionally made a grammatical error in Revelation 12:5 by modifying masculine huios (son) with neuter arsen. He is clearly connecting this particular male child with the male child in Isaiah 66, which is a corporate entity. Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual. Isa 66:8 Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Gal 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

The 1260 days of testifying occurs at the beginning of the 70th week. The two witnesses are killed at the A of D, not His second coming.

Iam, Rev 14:14-16 is the rapture. There are two different sickles in Rev 14:14-20. The son of man has one sickle and an angel has another sickle. The son of man with His sickle is describing 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 and the angel with the other sickle is describing Matt 24:31, in which He sends His angels out with a loud trumpet call. Verse 14-16 and verse 17-20 are seven years apart. I thought you were pre-trib, this is Christianity 101 bro. ? The war in heaven will take 3.5 years. Satan and his fallen angels will arrive at the A of D.

The 7th seal does not open the 70th week. There will be peace and safety in the first 3.5 years so Israel can build their third temple. "Sudden destruction" comes at the middle of the 70th week, at the A of D. Jer 30:6-7 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? 7How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it. Matt 24:15-21 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

Then tell me, how do the "seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns" relate to Herod. Did Herod sweep a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth? ? Rev 12:3-4 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

How can the suddenness be at His Second coming when those in the 70th week can count down the 1260+1260 days on a calender?? The suddenness is the rapture, not His Second Coming. "People were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" is not describing God's wrath in the 70th week, it's describing the Grace period in which we are in now.