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JoeCanada

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  1. Hi Hobie, I suppose if Jesus would have come riding a white horse and brandishing a sword, (instead of riding on a colt of a donkey).......and made a call of war to the Jews telling them to pick up a sword and follow Him, because "we're going to overthrow Rome" ..................... But that's not how the story goes. You're right. It is hard to grasp why they rejected Him. They had all the prophecies. All those teachers, rabbi's, scholars. But...... Are we any different? We have the complete written Word for us. We have scholars and teachers and theologians and computers and, and , and. And we have prophecy too............. Some say it's all been fulfilled................. Others say it's not. Will we recognize the "Antichrist"? Some say not to worry, we won't be here............................. Others say we will be here, so prepare. So many schools of thought.
  2. Hi Don, Here are some snippets from an article in Gospelintheendtimes. I believe it answers the question on why is there a gap in the 70th week prophecy. Also alluded to are a few Old Testament scriptures that I believe help to unravel the last week and the covenant. "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city." (Dan. 9:24) Gabriel said God decreed only 70 Weeks (10 Jubilee cycles). He then defines what a “week” is. Some claim Gabriel was saying 70 more Jubilee cycles (of 49 years each) were decreed, but Gabriel clearly defines what a week is: a single Shabua, not a complete cycle. This period (7 x 70) decreed by God and communicated by Gabriel only contains 10 Jubilees and 70 Shmitah (sabbatical) years. That is all that was decreed for Daniel’s people. Let’s look at the graphic of the 70 Weeks (click on it to see the graphic) This graphic clearly shows how the final Shabua, the 70th Week of Daniel, was violently separated from its Jubilee cycle. This violent interruption of the ongoing flow of “weeks” ended the fulfillment of Jubilees and Shmitahs. God’s design was that Israel would accept Jesus as Messiah and King and the final Jubilee would be celebrated in the first century. Jesus himself told us that if the Jews would have accepted him, it would have led to peace (the Final Jubilee): The destruction of Jerusalem mentioned in this passage is a reference to Dan, 9:26 which occurs AFTER the 62 Weeks: “Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.” In Luke 19, Jesus tells us this destruction occurs because the Jews did not recognize the time of their visitation by God (Jesus) and did not know what would bring them peace (faith in him as King and Messiah). This rejection of Jesus is the cause of the violent interruption of the 70 Weeks and the “gap of time.” We see great similarities in Dan. 4. Look closer at Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of the tree. Daniel’s interpretation to the king has numerous references to end times: This interpretation was given to King Nebuchadnezzar about King Nebuchadnezzar and this is the primary meaning. But notice how perfectly this interpretation can also apply to Israel. They will endure the entire 70th Week of Daniel (7 periods of time), a remnant will be driven into hiding (away from mankind) during the Great Tribulation, they will have the heart of a beast (a heart of stone) until they repent, and the issue that causes their tribulation and will solve it is recognizing Jesus as King and Messiah! (“after you recognize that the Most High is ruler of the realm of mankind.”) The bands of iron and bronze around the “stump” (Dan. 4:15) also implies the final week of Daniel as we are told the Beast has iron teeth and bronze nails (Dan. 7:19). The Beast (the Islamic Caliphate) will encircle Israel like a “band of iron and bronze.” The dream in Dan. 4 then, is a picture of the gap being formed. Israel is cut down until they “recognize that the Most High is ruler of the realm of mankind.” This only will happen after the seven periods of time pass over them (after the completion of the 70th Week) and they look upon the one they have pierced (Jesus) and repent. What causes the 70 Weeks to begin again? The prophecy tells us directly: We know that this horse rides at the Midpoint of the 70th Week. This reference ties all these ideas together. Israel makes a pact with Death and Hades at the beginning of the 70th Week, then at the Midpoint Death and Hades break the pact and ride their Green Horse into Jerusalem and being their reign of death during the Great Tribulation. The pieces fit like a perfect puzzle. This reference to Death and Hades in Revelation clearly shows it is the Covenant with Death and Shoel that is being referenced in Dan. 9:27. --------------------------------------------------------------- "And he (the Antichrist) will make (Gabar)a firm covenant with the many for one week. (Dan. 9:27) Gabar is more of “strengthen”, or more of “prevail over”? I believe it is more of “prevail over”…..in other words, a forced deal, imposed by a stronger party upon a weaker party Dan. 11:22-23 implies this. “The overflowing forces will be flooded away before him and shattered, and also the prince of the covenant. After an alliance is made with him he will practice deception, and he will go up and gain power with a small force of people.” It is after the overflowing forces (probably including Israeli forces) are shattered that the Alliance is made.
  3. iamlamad, Bible scholars, theologians, translators, etc.....they all say that the identity of the Restrainer is never clearly identified. But, if you know who the Restrainer, then please enlighten us. If he is clearly identified in scripture, it should be fairly easy for you to provide the scripture for us.
  4. Hi Marilyn, Thanks for your response. Hope all is well with you. Yes, I agree that when the Body of Christ (the saints) are taken out of the way, ie: raptured, then the Lord will execute His judgments (wrath)upon the wicked, the unbelievers, the rebellious. I see this happening "Immediately after the tribulation of those days......Math 29-31". The dead in Christ are resurrected, and we which are alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds.....1 Thes 4:16-18 There is but ONE resurrection/rapture.......the first resurrection...Rev 20:6......and ONE rapture.....1Thes 4:16 Now, about the Restrainer. I'm leaning toward Michael the Archangel being the Restrainer. Daniel 12: says "he is the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people....and he will arise". He will stand aside and this is when his protection of the Jewish people will be no more. Satan has been trying for millennia to wipe them out, but couldn't because of Michael. Now Satan will be able to do just that. It will be a "Holocaust on steroids"....unequaled since the beginning of time and never to be equaled again. When the Anti-christ sets up in Jerusalem, in the temple.......this then starts the Time of Jacobs trouble.... What is the very first thing Satan does when he is thrown out of heaven?......Rev 12:13 says he went straight after the Jews. In 2 Thes 2, Paul reminds the Church at Thessalonica ...."Do you not remember that while I was with you, I was telling you these things? And now you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed" Paul went to Thessalonica in the Book of Acts in Chapter 17. He went to the synagogue and reasoned with them, Jews, from the Scriptures for 3 Sabbaths. The only Scriptures he had was the Old Testament. And which Scripture from the Old Testament would he have used in talking about the Anti-christ? Probably the book of Daniel. Now, would it be more logical for Paul to reason that it would be Michael, the protector of the Jews, that is holding back the Anti-christ, ........or the church, which had not yet come into being, because Paul was travelling around establishing churches? As the OP states, nowhere in Scripture does it state who is holding back the Restrainer.......nowhere!
  5. Hi Don, I think you should reference this article to the "Historicist". This is the same teaching as Seven Day Adventist. Are you a SDA?
  6. Hi LD, Yes, this is an amazing picture of the 70th week of Daniel and the Rapture. "Now Jericho was tightly shut because of the sons of Israel; no one went out and no one came in. The Lord said to Joshua, “See, I have given Jericho into your hand, with its king and the valiant warriors. You shall march around the city, all the men of war circling the city once. You shall do so for six days. Also seven priests shall carry seven trumpets of rams’ horns before the ark; then on the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets. It shall be that when they make a long blast with the ram’s horn, and when you hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city will fall down flat, and the people will go up every man straight ahead.” (Joshua 6: 1-5 NASB) (I'm wondering if Jericho here is a symbol of heaven. It says that it was tightly shut because of the sons of Israel; no one went out and no one came in. Acts 3:21 says about Jesus...."whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things") Look at the similarities: Joshua Revelation Led by Yeshua Led by Yeshua 2 spies 2 witnesses Spies hidden 3 1/2 days Witnesses dead 3 1/2 days Rahab is a harlot Israel is a harlot Rahab saved by red cord Israel saved by Jesus’s blood Jordan River parted Mount of Olives parted Israel “shows” Ark of the Covenant to Jericho for 7 days Church “shows” Jesus to the world for 7 years Trumpets sound Jesus’s voice like a trumpet Jericho’s walls fall 1/10 of Jerusalem’s walls fall 7 priests blow 7 trumpets 7 angels blow 7 trumpets Jericho is burned Jesus burns the world with fire Israel will rule Canaan Israel will rule again Notice the name of the leader in the table above is the same in both accounts. Both Joshua and Jesus share the same name (in Hebrew) which means “YHWH is salvation.” Amen, he is. The writer of Hebrews recognized this and claimed that Jesus was a better “Yeshua” than Joshua because the rest that Jesus leads us into will remain: This passage bears amazing similarity to Paul’s accounts of the Rapture: Many commentators believe that the “last trumpet” is the seventh trumpet blown by an angel during the Trumpet Judgments. This is incorrect for two reasons. First, the “last trumpet” is called “the trumpet of God.” Jesus blows this trumpet not an angel. Also the phrase the “last trumpet” is a particular Jewish phrase that means a specific trumpet blast on the Jewish Feast of Yom Teruah. When this is understood, the picture comes into focus. The “last trumpet” is the final “long blast with a ram’s horn” on that day just like the quote above from the Jericho account. Amazing. On the last day of the sixth year of the Tribulation, Jesus will blow the trumpet of God and a great shout will go out. The dead in Christ will rise first and, as the Jericho account states, “the people will go up.” The Jericho account also confirms that the Trumpet Judgments (the 7 Trumpets) follow after the seventh Seal, just as the Book of Revelation states: A graphic of how this looks in relation to the 70th Week of Daniel follows: As can be seen in this graphic, all seven trumpets are blown during the seventh year of the Tribulation Period. This period is also known as “The Day of the Lord” and it is the time period when God pours out his wrath on the ungodly. Snippets from the book........Are We Ready for Jesus (2015)
  7. Hi MM, Ya, sorry about that brother. I re-read what you posted, and I see my error. Duh!
  8. Hi RM, Thanks for the warm response. The job of the church will not be finished until the Resurrection/Rapture, which is after the opening of the 6th seal, before the Wrath of God commences at the Day of the Lord.....at the opening of the 7th seal. The church has more than ONE job. They are to fulfill the Great Commission...(ie: spread the gospel), give testimony about Jesus Christ....and keep the commandments....among other things. "No matter how many facts you are presented with you will discount them,"........ Well that's just not true at all. I only discount "facts that are presented " in error. Those are usually "facts" that come from one who "supposes" they are truth. They are sometimes presented as "special divine revelation" given only to that specific person. "The whole pos is based off a false premise, therefore it is a waste of time to have read it"....... Well, I'm sorry that you wasted your time to read it......and wasted even more time to respond to it. If the article is THAT wrong, perhaps you could point out all the errors and we could discuss it like brothers. Respectfully.......
  9. The wicked, demonic assault on one Christian baker has been halted, but the next wave of anti-Christian left-wing demons is about to be unleashed (Natural News) It is now being widely reported that a multi-year crusade against Jack Phillips, the Colorado cake baker who’s been under endless assault by the L.G.B.T. mafia for refusing to bake cakes for homosexual “weddings” and transgender “conversion” parties, is finally out of the Leftists’ crosshairs following a recent decision by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission (C.C.R.C.) to basically stop persecuting Phillips simply because of his faith. But the eye-opening reality is that, despite this small but noteworthy victory, the demonic war being waged against Christians in this country has only just begun. While we might not be hearing much about Phillips anymore, Christians at large throughout America should expect to feel the heat of escalating hostility against their free speech rights, particularly online. In case you haven’t noticed, censorship on all of the major tech platforms, including Facebook, Google, Pinterest, Apple, Twitter, and Instagram, has been on the rise in a major way in recent years – and one of its primary targets is Christianity and all things associated with it. You see, the spirit of antichrist, backed by a growing army of mindless L.G.B.T. foot soldiers, is on the move in these final days to destroy all Christians wherever they might be found. And it won’t stop until every last thing that’s good, moral, and right in the eyes of God is completely obliterated from society, using whatever means necessary. Eliminating internet free speech seems to be the current tactic, as Big Tech has all but completely morphed into an extension of the “deep state” thought police in trying to regulate what people say and share online. One of the latest trends pushing for this abolition of the First Amendment online involves Leftists falsely accusing Christians, conservatives, and other Big Government “defectors” of engaging in “hate speech” every time they express their views – “hate speech” having already been programmed into the minds of the brainwashed masses as being an unforgivable no-no. By classifying Christianity as “hate,” Leftists hope to abolish it in the name of “tolerance” and “love” The Southern Poverty Law Center (S.P.L.C.), for instance, a hate group pretending to support “civil rights,” has actually made it a fundamental policy to designate any and all Christian organizations it comes across as “hate groups,” perpetuating the myth that any person or group of people that espouses beliefs contrary to what Big Brother deems acceptable is somehow embodying and perpetuating “hate,” and thus needs to be silenced. “The SPLC regularly designates Christian organizations as ‘hate groups’ because of their support for Biblical marriage,” reports Bonnie Pritchett for WORLD magazine, noting that a far-Leftist group known as “Change the Terms” has already been tasked with identifying and targeting for elimination all forms of Christian “hate speech” online. “Cloaked as a bid to purge neo-Nazis and white supremacists from internet platforms, the group admonishes tech companies to ‘combat hate activities while protecting minority voices.’ Its members include the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Center for American Progress.” Bible-believing Christians already know that, as revealed in the Bible from long ago, antichrists will roam the earth seeking out whomever they can lay their hands on in order to completely devour. In this current day and age, much of the persecution and tribulation being inflicted upon Christians as a result of their faith in Jesus Christ is happening online – though the elimination of all free speech, including speaking directly with others in everyday life, is sure to be next on the chopping block. “That’s the whole idea. Trying to wear out the saints,” wrote one commenter at CBN Newsabout how the Cult of L.G.B.T. and others often seek to silence Christians by embroiling them in endless legal proceedings. “But we are more than conquerors through Him who loves us.”
  10. George, Good stuff brother. I didn't recognize you without your sunglasses. 😎 Your wife has a great voice. Thanks for sharing her singing with us. I pray for those that hear this message, that they repent and believe, that they repent and turn back to their first love, that they repent and pray for revival. "Lord, restore unto me (us) the joy of thy salvation, and renew a right Spirit in me"
  11. MM, Not sure which version DOESN'T have the Book of Life: KJ21And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ASV And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. AMP And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life; and the dead were judged according to what they had done as written in the books [that is, everything done while on earth]. AMPC I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books. BRG And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. CSB I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books. CEB I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Another scroll was opened too; this is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged on the basis of what was written in the scrolls about what they had done. CJB And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done. CEV I also saw all the dead people standing in front of that throne. Every one of them was there, no matter who they had once been. Several books were opened, and then the book of life was opened. The dead were judged by what those books said they had done. DARBY And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is [that] of life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works. DLNT And I saw the dead— the great and the small— standing before the throne. And books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged from the things having been written in the books, according-to their works. DRA And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ERV And I saw those who had died, great and small, standing before the throne. Some books were opened. And another book was opened—the book of life. The people were judged by what they had done, which is written in the books. EHV I also saw the dead, great and small, standing in front of the throne, and books were opened. Another book was also opened, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged by the things written in the books, according to what they had done. ESV And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. ESVUK And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. EXB And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. Then ·books [scrolls] were opened, and [L another book/scroll, which is] the ·book [scroll] of life was opened [3:5; Dan. 12:1–2]. The dead were judged by what they had done, which was ·written [recorded] in the ·books [scrolls]. GNV And I saw the dead, both great and small stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged of those things, which were written in the books, according to their works. GW I saw the dead, both important and unimportant people, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened, including the Book of Life. The dead were judged on the basis of what they had done, as recorded in the books. GNT And I saw the dead, great and small alike, standing before the throne. Books were opened, and then another book was opened, the book of the living. The dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. HCSB I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books. ISI saw the dead, both unimportant and important, standing in front of the throne, and books were open. Another book was opened—the Book of Life. The dead were judged according to their actions, as recorded in the books. PHILLIPS Then I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne and the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books concerning what they had done. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up the dead which were in them. And men were judged, each according to what he had done. JUB And I saw the dead, great and small, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened; which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. KJV And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. AKJV And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. LEB And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds. TLB I saw the dead, great and small, standing before God; and The Books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to the things written in The Books, each according to the deeds he had done. MSG I saw a Great White Throne and the One Enthroned. Nothing could stand before or against the Presence, nothing in Heaven, nothing on earth. And then I saw all the dead, great and small, standing there—before the Throne! And books were opened. Then another book was opened: the Book of Life. The dead were judged by what was written in the books, by the way they had lived. Sea released its dead, Death and Hell turned in their dead. Each man and woman was judged by the way he or she had lived. Then Death and Hell were hurled into Lake Fire. This is the second death—Lake Fire. Anyone whose name was not found inscribed in the Book of Life was hurled into Lake Fire. MEV And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God. Books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. MOUNCE And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and the books were opened. Then another book was opened—the Book of Life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to · their deeds. NOG I saw the dead, both important and unimportant people, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened, including the Book of Life. The dead were judged on the basis of what they had done, as recorded in the books. NABRE I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. NASB And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. NCV And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. Then books were opened, and the book of life was opened. The dead were judged by what they had done, which was written in the books. NET And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne. Then books were opened, and another book was opened—the book of life. So the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds. NIRV I saw the dead, great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened. Then another book was opened. It was the book of life. The dead were judged by what they had done. The things they had done were written in the books. NIV And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. NIVUK And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. NKJV And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. NLV I saw all the dead people standing before God. There were great people and small people. The books were opened. Then another book was opened. It was the book of life. The dead people were judged by what they had done as it was written in the books. NLT I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. NMB And I saw the dead, both great and small, stand before God. And the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by those things that were written in the books, according to their deeds. NRSV And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. NRSVA And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. NRSVACE And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. NRSVCE And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. NTE Then I saw the dead, great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged on the basis of what was written in the books, in accordance with what they had done. TPT I saw the dead, the lowly and the famous alike, standing before the throne. Books were opened, and then another book was opened: the Book of Life. The dead were judged by what they had done as recorded in the books. RSV And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. RSVCE And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. TLV And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne. The books were opened, and another book was opened—the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what was written in the books, according to their deeds. VOICE And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in front of the throne. Some books were opened. Then another book was opened; it was called the book of life. And the dead were judged according to what had been recorded in the first books; these were the records of everything they had done. WEB I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. WE I saw the dead people, those who were great and those not great. They were standing in front of God's throne. Some books were opened. And another book was opened which is the book of life. The dead people were judged by the things they had done, which were written in the books. WYC And I saw dead men, great and small, standing in the sight of the throne; and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and dead men were deemed of these things that were written in the books, after the works of them. YLT and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;
  12. 1 Cor 15: 23.... "But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming" Those who are Christs at His coming, (or those that are in Christ) includes everyone from all ages who have believed. As Diaste said...."If we are in Christ we are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise. - Gal 3:29 OR....put in another way....." We are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise, therefore we are in Christ" Jesus frequently compared the Resurrection(s) to a harvest. The Hebrew harvest was divided into three parts, the Resurrection harvest will be divided into three parts as well. a first fruits harvest: a limited, preliminary harvest which was presented to YHWH as an offering the primary harvest: the harvest when the majority of the grain was reaped a gleanings harvest: a final sweep through the fields to reap any remaining grain That is exactly what we see in I Cor 15:23.and Rev 20: 5-6 I Cor 15:23...." But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits , after that those who are Christ's at His coming"(primary harvest) Rev 20:4-6...."And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first (Gk: PROTOS, meaning first or primary) resurrection. First Fruits Harvest.........Many saints were raised to life immediately after Jesus rose from the dead. Mathew 27:51-53..... The Primary Harvest is pictured in Rev 14:13-16......."Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped." The Old Testament saints like Daniel, Abraham, Moses,etc are in the Primary Harvest......Dan 12:1-3..... But at that time (after the Great Tribulation) your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. " The Gleanings Harvest......Rev 20:11-15...... The limited number of righteous in this resurrection (it is a “gleaning”) will include those who repent and die in Christ in the final year of the 70th Week (after the Rapture) and all the repentant Jews and Gentiles who die in Christ during the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom. These are the human survivors of the 70th Week and children born to them during the Millennium.
  13. LA, "By the way, " who is to come" is no proof that Jesus was there." The following commentaries show that Jesus was there. The exalted monarch is said to be like a jasper and a sardine stone. I find the soberest commentators agreed in declaring that what is here called jasper must be the diamond, and the sardine is only what we call a carnelian, that is, a flesh-coloured gem in hue, as the name signifies. And hence these expositors believe that this personage, with a Divine brightness and a human expression, is none other than the Lamb in the midst of the throne. Revelation 4:3......" And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald." " And he that sat" to sit upon a throne, doth signify, first, to make laws and constitutions for all his subjects, his churches, ministers and saints, how they should walk and worship God, { James 4:12} There is one law-giver. { Isaiah 33:22} The Lord is our law-giver-The Lord is our King, and HE will save us. " Was to look upon like a jasper" our Lord Jesus Christ, the king, priest, and prophet of his church, is here resembled by three precious stones in Aaron's breast plate; the jasper, the sardine, and the emerald, { Exodus 28:20-39} which were also three of the foundation stones of the holy city, the new Jerusalem. { Revelation 21:11-20} This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of JEHOVAH, Jesus, in Ezekiel's vision. { Ezekiel 1:26-28} The other jasper is a precious stone, which shineth so bright, that no color can darken it; hereby it figured forth the shining glory of Jesus Christ, who is the brightest of his father's glory. { Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 4:6} The sardine, or sardius, is a precious stone of a clear carnation color; hereby is represented the spiritual beauty, and loveliness of Jesus Christ, Song of Solomon 5:10-16 who is white and ruddy, and altogether lovely; made so precious to sanctified believers by his sufferings. { 1 Peter 2:4-7} A crucified Jesus is a precious Jesus, { Isaiah 63:1-3} glorious in his red apparel; his bloody garments of redemption and salvation. { Ephesians 1:7; Isaiah 61:10} The emerald is a lively lovely green stone, mixed with shining rays, and sparklings of other excellent and pleasant colors, which make that precious stone very desirable for its worth, beauty, and lustre. So is our precious Lord Jesus Christ ten thousand thousand times more worth, more glorious, and more desirable for the variety of his spiritual gifts and graces. Ver. 3. Like a jasper and a sardine] God is here resembled by three precious stones, holding forth the three persons in Trinity. A jasper having (as they say) a white circle round about it, representing the eternity of the Father. A sardine stone of a fleshy colour representing Jesus Christ, who took our flesh upon him. An emerald, being of a green colour, refreshing the eyes of them that look upon it, representing the Spirit, who is (as the rainbow) a token of fair weather, and is a comfortable refresher, wheresoever he cometh. " And there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald" And Christ is said to have a rainbow upon his head, { Revelation 10:1} The rainbow was a token of Gods covenant with Noah, { Genesis 9:11-16} and was applied by the prophet for the everlasting comfort of the church of God, { Isaiah 54:5-10} and signifies that God and Christ is ever mindful of the new covenant, and will perform his word to a thousand generations. {Deuteronomy 7:9; Psalm 111:5} God will not break his covenant, { Psalm 89:30-35} and Christ is the mediator of the new convenant between God and his people. { 1 Timothy 2:5-6; Hebrews 8:6} As the rainbow was first reflected on the waters of the world‘s ruin, and continues to be seen only when a cloud is brought over the earth, so another deluge, namely, of fire, shall precede the new heavens and earth: the Lord, as here, on His throne, whence (Revelation 4:5) proceed “lightnings and thunderings,” shall issue the commission to rid the earth of its oppressors: but then, amidst judgment, when other men‘s hearts fail them for fear, the believer shall be reassured by the rainbow, the covenant token, round the throne (compare De Burgh, Exposition of Revelation) Brother, you will never SEE this because of your spiritual blinders. You don't want to see Jesus there because you have already decided that He is not there. It won't "fit" with your theory. You must preserve your doctrine. John describes what he saw on the throne. All the descriptions fit Jesus to a tee. It's the same descriptions of the Angel in Rev 10. That Angel is the Lord Jesus.
  14. I know, you like to think that John didn't see Jesus on the throne. I guess you want to say that, but the truth is, it does not. Scripture refutes your logic. (or lack of) Rev 22:7....."I am coming quickly" Rev 22:12....."Behold, I am coming quickly" Rev 22:20....."Yes, I am coming quickly" John 14:3...."I will come again" Is it not the Church who is waiting for the "Coming" of our Lord? Is this not our great hope? "I think this is just a way of saying that God our Father is forever."....... Sure, you can think any way you like. You can put any meaning into any scripture to make it say what you want. Me, I'll stick with the plain meaning of what scripture DOES say. "In 95 AD Jesus had left the throne, to be born of a virgin. God prepared a body for Him.".......Seriously?
  15. iamlamad, You said...."We have a throne room in chapter 4, where John DID NOT see Jesus at the right hand of the father. " But......he did see Him. Look: Rev 4: 8b......" HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come" Who do you think this is, that the four living creatures, day and night, do not cease to say this to? Who is it? Who is to come? Rev 22:20...." He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come Lord Jesus.
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