Jump to content


Senior Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

351 Good


About JoeCanada

  • Rank
    Senior Member

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location
    Nanaimo BC Canada

Recent Profile Visitors

1,336 profile views
  1. Aspect of Ministry of Two Witnesses Ministry During the First Half of 70th Week Ministry from 3rd Year till 6th Year of 70th Week Ministry During the Last Half of 70th Week Do They Witness to the Jews? Yes Yes No Do They Witness to the Gentiles? No Yes Yes Is Their Resurrection Timed With Primary Resurrection? (Rev. 11:11-12) No Yes No Is Their Ministry and the drought associated with it timed with the Famine of the third year of the 70th Week? (Rev. 11:6) Yes Yes No Does their ministry coincide with the plagues of the second half of the 70th Week? (Rev. 11: 6) No Maybe? Yes Will the Nations be in a celebratory mood upon the death of the Witnesses? (Rev. 11:10) Maybe? Yes No Will the Nations be able to say “Peace and Safety” upon the death of the Witnesses? (1 Thess. 5:1-3) No Yes No Is an Earthquake foretold as part of the other events surrounding their resurrection? (Rev. 11:13) No Yes No By looking at this table, its obvious that a ministry that overlaps both halves of the 70th Week (from the third year to the end of the sixth year) is the most likely (it matches the most clues). This isn’t definitive proof however. Will They Witness to the Jews? The Two Witnesses minister in Jerusalem. In order to witness to the Jews, the Jews will have to be in Jerusalem during the time the Witnesses are ministering. A ministry during the first half of Daniel’s 70th Week is required because the Jews are mostly killed or taken into captivity during the second half of the “Week.” Both of the first two options have a portion of the ministry during the first half of the “Week”. Will They Witness to the Gentiles? Using the exact same logic, it will be necessary for a portion of their ministry to be during the second half of the 70th Week in order for them to minister to the Gentiles who trample Jerusalem for this 42 month period. This makes a ministry solely during the first half of the 70th Week less likely. The ministry of the Two Witnesses includes the calling down of plagues (some of which mirror the plagues of Egypt). Doesn’t it make more sense that these plagues will be upon the Gentiles (just as they were in Egypt)? If so then the Two Witnesses must be witnessing during the second half of Daniel’s 70th Week since that is the only time the Gentiles are present in Jerusalem. Does the Drought of the Two Witnesses correspond with the Famine of the Third Year? Scripture tells us no rain falls during the ministry of the Witnesses. We know from the “Pattern of Seven Events” that it is most likely that a famine strikes in the third year. Even if this is controversial, nearly all commentators believe the famine is part of the “Beginning of the Birth Pangs” period and happens in the first half of the “Week.” This makes it much more likely for the ministry of the Witnesses to take place during some portion of the first half of the 70th Week. Plagues We know the witnesses cause other plagues as well. All of these would most likely take place AFTER the invasion of Israel at the midpoint when it is being trampled by Gentiles. This makes a solely first half of the 70th Week ministry very unlikely. Will the Nations be in a Celebratory Mood upon the Death of the Witnesses? We know the Nations celebrate and give each other gifts upon the death of the Witnesses. It is unlikely that the gentile nations will celebrate if the Witnesses die at the midpoint because the gentiles won’t have experienced the ministry of the witnesses. Why celebrate their deaths? It is also unlikely the nations will celebrate at the end of the 1260 days. At this point Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet are gathering the nations to fight against Christ when he returns. The nations have also just experienced/are experiencing the pouring out of the Bowls of Wrath. They have bigger problems than the death of the witnesses, let alone having time to give gifts. The only timing that makes sense from a celebratory point of view is at the end of the sixth year of the “Week” as we will see below. Will the Nations say “Peace and Safety” after the Death of the Witnesses? If the Witnesses have a ministry during the last half of the 70th Week, the Bowls will be in the process of being poured out and the nations will be gathering to fight against Jesus at his return. This is not a time when anyone would say “peace and safety” as we discuss in the prior post mentioned above. If the Witnesses have a ministry during the first half of the 70th Week, the Antichrist wars against Egypt and the western nations will be ongoing. Additionally the Great Tribulation will have just begun. No one would say peace and safety at that point. Only a ministry that ends prior to the Resurrection/Rapture at the end of the sixth year could result in the Nations saying “peace and safety” after the death of the Witnesses. Is an Earthquake Prophesied to Occur in Conjunction with Other Events Surrounding the Resurrection of the Witnesses? We know from Rev. 11:13 that an earthquake occurs upon the Resurrection of the Witnesses. Might this earthquake be part of the any of the other earthquakes that are prophesied to occur during the 70th Week? It might be. If earthquakes are prophesied at the same time as Resurrection of the Witnesses (such as at the seventh seal or the seventh bowl) this would support that timing for the the ministry of the Two Witnesses. An earthquake is prophesied at the opening of the seventh seal (Rev. 8:5). This is consistent with a Ministry ending at the end of the sixth year. An earthquake is prophesied at the 7th Bowl as well, but this occurs at the battle of Armageddon at day 1260. If the witnesses are resurrected 3 1/2 days after this (consistent with a ministry of the last half of the 70th Week) then the earthquake will already have taken place. Only a ministry from the third year until the end of the sixth year is supported by the occurrence of other earthquakes prophesied to coincide with other events. Looking at all the clues in Rev. 11, it appears it is most likely that the Two Witnesses minster from about the middle of the third year of Daniel’s 70th Week until 3 1/2 days before the Resurrection at the end of the sixth year. Snippets from "Revelation Deciphered"
  2. Hi Ashley, A great big Worthy welcome to you.... Glad to have you on board.
  3. During Jesus’s earthly ministry we are told he came preaching the “gospel of the Kingdom.” How is this Gospel of the Kingdom different from what we all have come to know as the “Gospel?” The Gospel of the Kingdom Jesus began his ministry in this way: In fact, in the Gospel of Matthew alone, Jesus referred to “kingdom” 54 times! So what is the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom and how does it differ from the Gospel of Salvation that we usually refer to? The most explicit chapter in the Bible on “the Gospel” is 1 Cor. 15. There Paul references this Gospel of Salvation which every Christian is familiar: This is the good news!! Christ died for our sins and rose again. In dying for our sins, Christ took them upon himself and substitutionally gave us his righteousness which will allow us to enter the presence of a Holy and Awesome God. Unfortunately, most Christians stop reading 1 Cor. 15 right there and think they understand the entire Gospel. Many (if not most) Christians feel this is all they need to know; that faith in Jesus’s substitutional death is their ticket into heaven. Paul, however, corrects this “partial Gospel” thinking just a few verses later: So it is the resurrection from that dead that is the greater hope of our faith, not simply “going to heaven.” Paul continues to explain the Gospel’s good news: Paul continues to explain the Gospel by showing the resurrection is not the end, rather it is the beginning of the end. The true “end” comes when Jesus hands over the Kingdom to God the Father. And this won’t happen until he puts down all rebellion and destroys death itself. This process will take 1000 years and that period of time is known as the Millennial Kingdom. Jesus will reign during this kingdom, but the resurrected saints will reign with him as well and share in his work of restoring all things: This then is the Gospel of the Kingdom; the good news that Jesus is returning and will resurrect the saints and they will reign with him over the Kingdom for a thousand years. During that 1000 years, Jesus will conquer every last enemy including death. The Gospel of the Kingdom is about an earthly kingdom, the restoration of Israel with Jesus ruling from Jerusalem, not one set up in heaven. Contrast With the Gospel of Salvation Salvation is a critically important facet, but it is just the beginning of the “good news.” In the Book of Joshua, we learn about Joshua leading the Israelites into the promised land. What if Joshua stopped right there after Israel crossed the Jordan without conquering the land? Would that be good news? Well, yes, but it would only be partial good news. The same is true of our salvation. It is great news but it is only the beginning of the restoration of all things that Jesus is returning to undertake. That restoration: begins with our salvation extends throughout our lives continues with our resurrection, and finally consummates after Jesus subjects all enemies under his feet. It is a four step process. When we truncate the process and say it ends with our salvation or even with our death, we downplay the good news. The Gospel of the Kingdom is much greater and more complete than that. 1) The Gospel of Salvation Prior to our salvation we are dead in our sins. When we place our faith in Jesus and his death for us on the cross, we move from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of light and life. It is the gift of God, not something of our own doing. Through this process we are made into a new creation: This creation is a new heart of flesh in place of our previous heart of stone: 2) The Gospel of Sanctification This heart of “flesh” is indicative of a living heart not a dead one. Into that living heart Jesus places the Holy Spirit. The grace of God that has placed the Spirit within us saves us from our sins. Without the Spirit, we are unable to overcome our sin nature. With the Spirit’s help we can be sanctified. Although we cannot live “sin-free,” we have the power to overcome sin. And by living by the Spirit, we are also able to begin to redeem the world around us becoming ambassadors of God’s Kingdom in this fallen world. And as Jesus’s ambassadors, he is allowing us to participate with him in the beginning of the restoration of all things. During our lives, that is our mission: to work on behalf of the Kingdom to come to make appeal to the lost and to work to redeem the systems of this fallen world. We are citizens of a Kingdom that is coming. Unfortunately, many churches call this Gospel of Sanctification the Gospel of the Kingdom as if Jesus’s Kingdom has already come on earth and its restoration was the Church’s responsibility only. This is horribly mistaken. We know from Rev. 11:15 that Jesus does not begin to reign until the seventh trumpet and currently Satan is the ruler of this world. Christ won the right to the dominion of the world on the cross but he doesn’t stake his claim until Armageddon. The theology of “Kingdom now” misses the whole point of Jesus’s restoration of all things that is coming and leaves one with a nearly hopeless feeling that the Church needs to restore all things and can’t. 3) The Gospel of the Resurrection Our sanctification will not be completed during our lifetimes. These fallen bodies we live in are incapable of being completely sin-free. If we return to 1 Cor. 15, Paul addresses this as he continues to explain the multifaceted Gospel: Without our resurrection (or transformation in the Rapture) we cannot overcome this fallen flesh. That is why Paul is so emphatic about the value of the Resurrection from the Dead. Not only will we be sin-free, we will also be imperishable (immortal). That is pretty good news! 4) The Gospel of the Kingdom Finally, in our new resurrection bodies we will reign with Christ in the Kingdom that is coming. This is what Jesus taught his disciples about after his resurrection. It was his primary topic after his suffering: In fact, as can be seen from this passage, after this forty day discussion about the Kingdom, the disciples wondered if Jesus was about to restore the Kingdom back in the first century. As we have learned in multiple articles on this site, the Kingdom and dominion is transferred at the Seventh Seal: Then at the seventh bowl, Jesus will physically return to the earth, fight the battle of Armageddon, and claim his right to the Kingdom. Then at the end of the 1000 years, Jesus will put all enemies under his feet and death will be destroyed and Satan cast into the lake of fire. Then Jesus will present the Kingdom to his Father. At that point the New Jerusalem will descend and God the Father will also dwell with us in the “eternal state.” That is the complete Gospel; the complete good news. Every aspect of it is found in 1 Cor. 15. Read the entire Chapter! Jesus never came to bring an incomplete Gospel of Salvation only or two separate gospels (one for the Jews and one for the Christians). He came to bring the complete Gospel of the Kingdom . An article from The Gospel in the End Times
  4. Hi Alexalex, First, let me welcome you to Worthy Forums........ For many years, I was a witness to Jehova's Witnesses. At the start, they spun me like a pretzel.....they know the bible pretty good. After a time, I found what I think is their weak spot. In John 1:1, it says....."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" John is telling us that the Word, Jesus, was in the beginning, that He was with God, and that He was God. Now, it's amazing how one tiny little letter can change the meaning of a sentence. (Indeed, a whole book) Let's look at the letter....."a". The first letter of the alphabet. In the New World Translation, which is the JW's bible (own version)......John 1:1 reads...... "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God" They say that the Word was "a" God..................... Not God...........but "a" God. In Isaiah (he's a prophet in the Old Testament), God is speaking and proclaims that....." I am the Lord, and there is no other. Besides Me, there is no God".....(Isaiah 45:5)............"I am the Lord, and there is no other".....Isa 45:6......."And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior, There is none except Me....Isa 45:21 God plainly states that He is the ONLY God. So, JW's have 2 Gods. They have "God"....and...."a God" When I confronted them with John 1:1 and Isaiah 45, well, they usually never came to visit anymore. If you are intent on going to check out the JW's and the Kingdom Hall.....please remember these few verses. John 1:1...and Isaiah 45. If you are not sure that Jesus is God, if you haven't established that fact deep in your soul.............then go no further until you do. George, here at Worthy, has reached out to you. You can private message him. This is a good first step. Best of luck to you Alex......I'll be praying for you.......
  5. Hi Nicky, The foolish virgins are virgins, someone keeping themselves pure from the world. We are also told they are awaiting the return of the bridegroom. This is a way you might describe a Christian, yet, they fall away so we know they are not true Christians. Jesus’s three parables that follow the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 are applications of his end time teachings, applications that center on apostasy or the falling away. Those who fall away are churchgoers attending our churches who are unsaved. They think they are Christians but are not. They may believe Jesus is the Son of God, they may believe in his sacrificial death on the cross, but they don’t have FAITH in those beliefs. They aren’t saved, they have a human-form of belief rather than what comes from above. The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. (Matt. 13:20-21) So, the foolish virgins are churchgoers who think they are Christians, but are not. But the wise virgins were ready because they had the oil of the Holy Spirit. The wise virgins are raptured and taken into the wedding feast. What follows are some of the saddest words in the Bible, “and the door was shut.” After the door was shut, the foolish virgins came pounding on it and crying out for Jesus to let them in, but it was too late. They thought they were Christians right up until the moment the door was closed! Then Jesus then told them one other thing that they lacked: Jesus didn’t say the foolish virgins didn’t know him, he said that He didn’t know them. A big difference. So these foolish virgins may have believed he was the Son of God. They may have believed he died for the sins of the world, but they had no faith. And one other thing: This then is the cryptic meaning behind the phrase, “I do not know you.” The foolish virgins without faith didn’t love God. They loved themselves. And when the moment of testing came, they fell away. And if Jesus knows us, he will confess us before the Father (Matt. 10:32). All who love him with agape love will enter the wedding feast. What happens to the foolish virgins? Are they saved, or , can they be saved? Look at the parables following Mathew 24. In Mathew 25:29....."Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" When the Day of the Lord comes, after the celestial disturbance, it will be a day of darkness (Matt 24:29) (beginning a year Isa 34:8, 61:2, 63:4 of darkness). This is when the resurrection/rapture happens......then the Day (year) of the Lord begins....total darkness. The foolish virgins are left behind to face the wrath of God. If they repent, and put their faith and love in Christ, then they will be saved at the sheep and goat judgment. (I know I'm going to get lots of "O Veys" on this last paragraph) You can read the whole article here.....http://www.thegospelintheendtimes.com/apostasy/who-are-the-foolish-virgins/
  6. Hi Kristin, Here is the problem. If a non-believer confronts you and brings up this issue, "Jesus Himself said that He would be three days AND three nights in the tomb"..... as Jonah was "three days and three nights" in the belly of a great fish..........but according to tradition, which says He was crucified on a Friday and resurrected on a Sunday, how does one calculate 3 days and 3 nights? And so you count: Friday-Friday night.......1 day and 1 night Saturday-Saturday night.......1 day and 1 night Sunday........1 day And you can't answer. So the non-believer goes away and figures out that the Bible is in error on this matter.....and may very well be in error on other matters. And you've just lost an opportunity to witness truth, if you could answer him and show him that "tradition in observing a Sunday Resurrection" is man's tradition, and it is not based on Scripture.
  7. Hi mo llama, A mega-huge Worthy welcome to you........ I'm north of Seattle in BC, Canada. We are hurting for rain here. Typical hot August.......
  8. Hi Marylin, ..our citizenship is in heaven...`(Phil. 3: 20) Yes, you are quite right. Our citizenship is in heaven. My citizenship is Canadian. But that doesn't prevent me from living in another land. I could live in Mexico, or Costa Rica, or Panama, or a host of other countries. I could live there and set up shop, hire employees, and run a business. But my citizenship would remain Canadian.
  9. Hi Marilyn, God has GONE UP with a shout, the Lord with the sound of the trumpet. Sing praises to our King, sing praises For God is the King of all the earth....` (Ps. 47: 2 - 7) I find this to be a very weak argument to show that Jesus has gone back up to heaven after His second coming. The saints return to the earth with Jesus at the physical second coming. This is abundantly clear by the use of the term “fine linen, white(bright) and clean” describing both those on white horses and the garments of the bride. So first, your theory requires the saints to descend to the earth with Jesus and then ascend again. This is never depicted in scripture or even alluded to. We will rule with Jesus (Rev. 2:26-27, 2 Tim. 2:12, Rev. 5:11, Rev. 2:4-5), but Jesus surrenders the Kingdom to God the Father after the Millennial reign as it says: ” then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.” (1 Cor. 15:24-26) So Jesus’s reign ends when the eternal state begins (Rev. 21). It is impossible for the saints to reign from heaven. Jesus is reigning from the earth. Jesus only reigns during the Millennial Kingdom. The saints are always with the Lord (1 Thess. 4:17). Thus by logic they must be on the earth when they are reigning with Jesus.
  10. Hi Marilyn, There are literally 2 dozen of scriptures that clearly show Jesus will rule from Zion and Jerusalem during the Millennium, but only a few show which ones: heavenly or earthly. Jesus is said to rule in the midst of his enemies. Obviously those enemies aren’t in heaven! Also notice him drinking from the brook while judging the nations and filling them with corpses; also not in heaven. Jeremiah specifies that Jesus will reign as King in the land; not over the land, but IN it. In Ezekiel, Jesus says directly he will be IN Israel after the Battle of Gog and Magog (Armageddon). In Joel, Jesus is said to dwell in Jerusalem after the Day of the Lord, but a caveat is added, that strangers will no longer pass through it. This can only be the earthly Jerusalem. Strangers don’t pass through the heavenly Jerusalem! In Zephaniah, we see that Jesus is King of Israel on the earth. Obviously Jesus has no need to say to the heavenly Jerusalem to not be afraid, only to the earthly one. And he is in their midst on the earth. Zechariah has several verses that clearly state that Jesus will reign on the earth. Again we see this happens “in the land” and if Jesus again chooses Jerusalem, it can only be the earthly one. Obviously he has always chosen the heavenly one. Later in Zechariah, Jesus’s feet touch the Mount of Olives and he becomes King of all the EARTH. Does he ascend again to do this? We are to be resurrected into glorified bodies. Bodies are made for the earth not heaven. If we remained in heaven it would be fine to be spirits, but if scripture says we are bodily resurrected there is a reason. That reason is to reign with Jesus upon the earth. The righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever. (Psalm 37:29) The meek shall inherit the earth. (Matt 5:5)
  11. Hi Marilyn, 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come you, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.....Isa 2:2-3 And have made us to our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth......Rev 5:10 I've just finished reading the "great debate" between you and shiloh 357, from 2017. Here is a question: Jesus, after He was raised from the dead, ascended to heaven. This was the first coming. In Rev 19, He comes back with the armies of heaven to the earth. This is the second coming. Where, in scripture, does it show Jesus again returns to heaven?
  12. Hi Marilyn, Christ will be on earth in the millennium. And, where Christ is, there we will be also..... NASB Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.......1 Thes 4:17
  13. So who are these? They are outside the city..... Revelation 22:14-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
  14. Yes, Christians will appear at the Bema seat judgment of Christ. This will happen after the rapture. I explained above who goes into the millennium with the believers. Why do you think it will be only believers that go into the millennium? Who is Christ going to rule with a rod of iron in the millennium?.......and the believers with Him? Who are the believers, who are to become Kings and priests, going to be kings and priests over?
  15. Hi missmuffet, I don't believe that statement is true. Mathew 25:31-46 is about the sheep and goat judgment. This judgment is after the Lord comes with His angels and sits on His throne. He judges everyone who is alive after the 70th week is completed. Everyone from all the nations. Everyone except the believers. All the believers in Him will not be judged. They already have their resurrected bodies. They will rule and reign with Him. The sheep that are judged, He says this to them...."Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". If Jesus is going to rule with a rod of iron, and believers rule with Him and are Kings and priests, then who is He going to rule if, as you say, "Only the believers will enter the 1000 year millennium" Can you explain please.
  • Create New...