SwordMaster

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Dude, where are you getting this from? This is not biblical. The Anti-Christ MUST BE Born in Greece and come to power in the E.U. There is not ifs ands or buts about it. The Seals are NOT ACTIONABLE. The only point out what is about to befall mankind. 

 

No, not really, at all. The antichrist may be born in Greece, but he will be a Jew. No orthodox Jew will fall for the idea that the one they are waiting for as the Messiah would be anything OTHER than a Jew. He will be Jewish, and he will be part of the NWO that is coming. He may well come to power in Europe, but I doubt it. 

The head of the NWO will be the UN, and the UN is currently headquartered in New York, but The United Nations has three additional subsidiary regional headquarters, or headquarters districts. These were opened in Geneva (Switzerland) in 1946, Vienna (Austria) in 1980, and Nairobi (Kenya) in 1996.

As for what you say about the seals in your last sentence, that makes no sense. Please explain what you mean by "not actionable." As for the part that the seals only point out what will happen, I do believe that is what I stated. In order to accurately understand prophecy, we need to understand when a prophetic utterance is God telling us what HE will do, or when He is just telling us what WILL happen. 

In other words, some prophetic utterances are God telling us that He is going to cause something to take place. Other prophetic statements are God telling us what will take place in human history that He will not be causing. Knowing the difference between the two is half the battle to understanding the intended interpretation of that utterance.

Blessings!

 

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Much of what you said is on point. I disagree with Biblical Hermeneutics, the bible actually interpret itself.

 

Most uneducated people disagree too. Yes, many parts of the Bible does interpret itself, but 90% of it does not, and that is why (again) we have so many different denominations and loads of false doctrines floating around the church landscape.

 

On 11/9/2020 at 8:51 AM, Mantis said:

Have you ever seen a demon? I have, black shadow figure. Before Jesus revealed himself to me I was paralyzed three times in my sleep. The third time a black shadow figure sat on my chest and tried to suffocate me. This has been experienced by many, many people throughout history. All with a similar experience. Seeing an entity and feeling the absolute dread and hatred towards you. Now science will explain this away but if you have ever experienced this you know it is supernatural.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_person

I have never seen one personally, but I have had others that I worked with see them (but only because they wanted people to see them, of course). While I have never seen one (to date), I have had several experiences with demons as well as casting them out of possessed persons.

I had a similar experience to what you had at my conversion; I was born and raised in church but didn't get saved until I was 16. We moved into a house (rental) and about a few weeks after we moved in, we started having supernatural things happen. My sister would see apparitions standing (floating) above her bed at night, or faces in her walls. The demon would just come into my bedroom at night and stand right in the middle of the room, glaring down at me. Many a night a cried myself to sleep waiting for it to do something.

One night when this happened, something snapped inside and I cried out to the Lord. I heard a 'whooshing' sound, like something flew into the room and stood behind the head of my bed. I don't remember what I prayed, but I felt the power of God touch me and seem to go through me, and it felt in the spirit like the power went through me and knocked the demon out of my room. We never had any demonic presence after that night.

Blessings!

 

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and he went out to conquer the world, could we interpret that "Crown" to mean "Corona Virus"? And could we imagine him shooting the virus with his bow? Interesting thought. It begs the question, how could this angel go out and conquer the world? Since this is part of the Great Tribulation scenario, we have to imagine that all evil is let loose. How could anyone control the world, given that it has hundreds of sovereign nations that govern themselves? By fear, confusion ... a virus! It sort of has everyone under this dark, mysterious cloud that spread so fast and has destroyed much of the economy. We are struggling to get back in the game, but here it comes again and maybe again after that. Yes, it is easy to imagine that this is the Rider on the White Horse.

Actually, it isn't...

We need to pay close attention to the words in a Scriptural text. Several things to point out here, first of which is that none of the four riders in Rev. 6 are Tribulation acts or judgments of God, like most of us have been taught growing up. The judgments of God do not begin until after the seventh seal has been opened, in the Trumpet Judgments.

The riders represent what will take place in the "setting up of the game board" in order to pave the way for the world-wide government that will eventually hand over its power to the antichrist when he comes upon the world scene. The first rider is crowned, meaning that God has brought him into power by His hand, he was not born into power (royalty) or a dictator who took power by force. He had a bow...but no mention of arrows. This symbolism means that he would conquer but not by force, nor by military might.

He will continue for a set amount of time, and then he will be replaced by the second rider which takes peace away from the earth. However, to understand this more fully, we need to understand that the Greek word used here for "peace" does not just mean any kind of peace, nor all kinds of peace - the word specifically means "civil peace." The first rider either causes peace to abound, or preserves the peace in the world for a period of time, and then the second rider that replaces him reverses that. 

I have studied chapter 6 with over 80 hours of study time, and numerous references, and I am convinced (unless further evidence requires a reversal of that belief) that President Trump is the white rider, and when he is replaced - which will undoubtedly be by a social marxist democrat - that the one who replaces him will cause just what the second rider does.

You would have to understand the globalization and New World Order nonsense that the U.N. and billionaire globalists (like soros and ted turner, both communists) want to bring the world into. They even already have their new one world religion (Gaia) up and running. The ONLY thing stopping this totalitarian regime from getting started is Trump and America. America has to fall before the NWO (marxist one world government) can take foothold. This is why the social marxist democrats have been out to get Trump ever since he announced in his running platform that under his leadership, America would not enter the NWO.

 

From that point forward, the democrats and every UN political figure has gone ape-crazy to get him out of office. Just look at all of the fake communist propaganda that CNN (and all the other fake news outlets owned by Ted Turner) has been putting out, along with all of the voting fraud being discovered all over the country. Anyway, the first rider did not bring COVID, that was another UN approved attack not only upon the people of China not wanting to be polluted by more nonsense, but also against Trump's sparkling economy that was booming at historical record rates. 

Enough of the political...anyways, the original assessment in the OP of the four riders is horribly off kilter.

Blessings!

 

On 7/1/2020 at 4:55 AM, kenny2212 said:

I believe God told me this in a couple of dreams. People, any input?

What makes you think he will be revealed in "20 months?" That's the first question. Why do you believe that? What in your dream gives you that idea? And most importantly, are you walking with God according to "the way of God" in Scripture? Do you pray on a consistent basis? Do you worship God on a consistent basis? Or (just asking) do you play video games and do other things leaving little time to actually spend with God in prayer and worship, like 90% of the rest of the church does today?

Because, if you are not actually walking with God according to Scripture, then you were just dreaming...God had nothing to do with it.

Blessings!

 

From experience, this is one way to see that we are not walking with God like we should be. If we have a demonic experience, and if we are abiding in Christ, then by the New Covenant in Christ we have been given power and authority over the powers of darkness. If we have a demonic experience, and we are walking with God according to "the way of God" and not according to man's false doctrines, then we can command the demon to leave and never come back, and it has no choice...it has to obey.

I had someone tell me before that as a Christian he spent 6 hours casting a demon out of a woman...and I called him a liar to his face. If you are a Christian, walking with God according to Scripture, then it only takes saying this one time; "In the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, I command you to come out of him/her, now!" and that will be the end of it. Whether its in a person, or 'haunting' your house, or whatever. The ONLY reason that I have ever come across that a demonic presence kept returning, is because something occultic was in the house somewhere, being a doorway in.

On one occasion, it was a rock music album (I can't remember which group, KISS or Queen or some other band of devil worshippers), and the presence didn't stop coming back repeatedly until the items were taken out of the house and thrown away or destroyed some how.

Hope that helps.

Blessings!

 

Your "vision" does not appear to be Biblically sound. The Holy Spirit is the one who falls upon people, not some other kind of spirit running around touching people. 

On 9/15/2020 at 10:33 AM, Episcopius said:

This will be a thread to look at the DIVERSE KINDS OF TONGUES recorded in the New Testament,

Please - please - please do not not let this thread be about Cessationism (Cessionism) vs Continuationism.

That is not what this OP and thread is about.

I realize that some people think diverse kinds of tongues means ONLY different human languages, well, we will look at tongues in the New Testament.

So much emphasis is put on Day of Pentecost - Acts 2.

I feel there is so much to look at on that day that its practically inexhaustible.

First there is a pre-Pentecost, or Proto-Pentecost passage, when Jesus BREATHED on the disciples and SAID "receive the Holy Spirit";

all but Thomas were present when He said "receive ye the Holy Ghost"

The Bible does not say they DID receive Him then, it does not say they did NOT receive Holy Ghost then, does not say they spoke in tongues at that time, does not say they didn't.

John 20:22

Now we are ready to look at Day of Pentecost.

 

 

The only way to understand this topic fluently, is to understand that there are two kinds of Biblical tongues in the NT Scriptures. In John 20:22 when Jesus said to the disciples, "Receive the Holy Spirit," they DID receive Him right then and there...that was the INDWELLING SPIRIT that they received, NOT the baptism in the Spirit. At that moment, the disciples were regenerated and saved.

They did not receive the baptism in the Spirit until the day of Pentecost. 

The two types of tongues found in Scripture are: the Gift of Tongues which is completely worked through people by the Spirit, as are all of the other spiritual gifts listed in I Cor. 12...and the other tongues is the saved person's spiritual prayer language. 

The Gift of Tongues is ONLY worked in the congregation by the Spirit - in other words, it is the Spirit who is speaking the tongue through the person as well as the interpretation, whether through that person or someone else. If the Holy Spirit is not the one speaking, then there will be no interpretation (unless something hinkie is going on). 

A saved person utilizing their prayer language (tongues) will not give any interpretation, because...as Paul says, he is speaking to God, not to others. That is the basic difference in tongues taught in Scripture. But if you are referring to different kinds of languages that people can speak in, I have heard as different kinds as many as are actual languages upon the earth. And Paul says that some people don't speak earthly tongues only, but some pray in languages that are not found upon the earth, he calls them "tongues...of angels" (I Cor. 13:1).

Hope that helps!

Blessings!

 

I often hear people who don't know what they are talking about, that Paul preached a gospel different from what John, Peter, and James taught...which is absolute baloney. They used different words to say the same thing, and the fact that people get hung up on that is completely ridiculous. 

Paul said, "I am going shopping."

Peter said, "I am going to the grocery store to pick some things up."

They both said the same thing in essence, and THAT is where we are to be looking...not stuck in a mode of what the exact words were and making them seem to mean different things. Good grief!

 

On 11/2/2020 at 7:04 AM, douge said:

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

This passage says that we have been forgiven.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This passage says we have to confess to receive forgiveness.

We can not, at the same time, have forgiveness, but have to confess it in order to receive it.

1 John is written only for Israel as seen in Leviticus 26:40, Nehemiah 1:6, and Psalm 32:5.

I John was written to the church, not Israel. There is absolutely nothing in the letter anywhere that gives anyone even a hint of a scintillon that it was only written to Israel. I John is renowned by most scholars and theologians who study covenants, as being the foremost New Covenant document in the NT Scriptures. The New Covenant was written to the church, which is born out of that covenant.

Blessings

 

On 11/6/2020 at 4:23 PM, Bro.Tan said:

I get what you saying, I just try to understand if we all read out of the same Bible we should pretty much come to the same conclusion, or understanding. It just amazes me that people don't Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. (proverb 3:5) I learn that the bible actually give guidance to it self, But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding? (Job 28:12). Very good question here... God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.  Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.  And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.( Job 28: 23, 27, 28)

 

 

 

 

Part of the problem, is that few people actually know how to read, study, and interpret the Scriptures. Few people understand that in order to come to a complete and accurate understanding of Scripture we must learn and apply a complete Biblical Hermeneutic (principles of Biblical interpretation) to our study of Scripture. All too often people are OK with just taking what the pastor teaches them - which is a huge problem in America today...how do you know if your pastor was called by God and gifted to fill that position, or if he called himself? If he called himself, then he legitimately has NO place standing behind the pulpit. If he was not called by God, then he is not anointed or gifted to be able to fulfill that ministry, but that's only part of the problem.

And because I know that it passed through someone's mind, Biblical Hermeneutics does not, and cannot, bypass the Holy Spirit in helping us to come to His intended meaning of Scripture. In other words, we need the Holy Spirit and Biblical hermeneutics. Some call that blasphemy - but that's only because they don't have a clue about what they speak. The Holy Spirit does not give us the historical background or covenant information that has a direct affect upon understanding a specific text, neither does He give us divine revelation on Biblical Greek and its grammar...and I could go on listing things. The Holy Spirit's job is NOT to give you His intended meaning in any text, it is to help you while you do your part in searching out that truth.

If it was the Holy Spirit's job to give us His accurate intended meaning of every text in Scripture, then...we would ALL be on the same page, for the most part. The fact that we aren't, is evidence in fact.

Blessings!

 

I have written two books in a series of three that I started a few years ago, Christian fantasy fiction (elves, giants, etc.).

Before I was medically retired, I worked at a county jail and wrote their technical manuals for training, as well as in the USMC where I wrote what we called "turnover binders."

I have also written a Christian scientific expose on the theory of evolution, and two theological books centering upon how the discoveries of the Intertestamental Period documents, and Ancient Near Eastern covenants gives us a more clear and accurate interpretational base for NT doctrines.

I have been writing poetry (mostly Christian) and fiction short stories since high school. I guess I have written just about everything that a Christian can write!

I love to write...I love to create...it's probably just my Father in me!!!

 

 

On 1/22/2016 at 6:35 PM, angels4u said:

1. Religion:

2. “I obey-therefore I’m accepted.”
3. Motivation is based on fear and insecurity.
4. I obey God in order to get things from God
5. When circumstances in my life go wrong, I am angry at God or my self, since I believe, like Job’s friends that anyone who is good deserves a comfortable life.
6. When I am criticized I am furious or devastated because it is critical that I think of myself as a ‘good person’. Threats to that self-image must be destroyed at all costs.
7. My prayer life consists largely of petition and it only heats up when I am in a time of need. My main purpose in prayer is control of the environment.
8. My self-view swings between two poles. If and when I am living up to my standards, I feel confident, but then I am prone to be proud and unsympathetic to failing people. If and when I am not living up to standards, I feel humble, but not confident-I feel like a failure.
9. My identity and self-worth are based mainly on how hard I work. Or how moral I am, and so I must look down on those I perceive as lazy or immoral. I disdain and feel superior to ‘the other.’
10. Since I look to my own pedigree or performance for my spiritual acceptability, my heart manufactures idols. It may be my talents, my moral record, my personal discipline, my social status, etc. I absolutely have to have them so they serve as my main hope, meaning, happiness, security, and significance, whatever I may say I believe about God.

11. Gospel:

12. “I’m accepted-therefore I obey.”
13. Motivation is based on grateful joy.
14. I obey God to get to God-to delight and resemble Him.
15. When circumstances in my life go wrong, I struggle but I know all my punishment fell on Jesus and that while he may allow this for my training, he will exercise his Fatherly love within my trial.
16. When I am criticized I struggle, but it is not critical for me to think of myself as a ‘good person.’ My identity is not built on my record or my performance but on God’s love for me in Christ. I can take criticism. That’s how I became a Christian.
17. My prayer life consists of generous stretches of praise and adoration. My main purpose is fellowship with Him.
18. My self-view is not based on a view of my self as a moral achiever. In Christ I am simul iustus et peccator—simultaneously sinful and lost yet accepted in Christ. I am so bad he had to die for me and I am so loved he was glad to die for me. This leads me to deeper and deeper humility and confidence at the same time. Neither swaggering nor sniveling.
19. My identity and self-worth are centered on the one who died for His enemies, who was excluded from the city for me. I am saved by sheer grace. So I can’t look down on those who believe or practice something different from me. Only by grace I am what I am. I’ve no inner need to win arguments.
20. I have many good things in my life—family, work, spiritual disciplines, etc. But none of these good things are ultimate things to me. None of them are things I absolutely have to have, so there is a limit to how much anxiety, bitterness, and despondency they can inflict on me when they are threatened and lost.

21. Adapted from Tim Keller

22. So many of us have some form of religion,but what is religion and what is the difference between religion and relationship,Tim Keller wrote some very good points about the difference between religion and the gospel ,do we recognize the difference and why or why not we think or do certain things? Are we doing it for the right reason?

 

The OP above...In actuality, when we study the Scriptures according to a complete Biblical hermeneutic, which would include Ancient Near Eastern (ANE) covenants and their principles, some of these given 'tenets' under the heading of "gospel" are not correct. They follow Reformed Theology good enough, but the problem is that Reformed Theology didn't have access to all of the information then that we do today, which is why many today are pushing for another Reformation within the church based upon more accurate knowledge of the Scriptures. According to more accurate knowledge, the list under the Gospel heading reads thusly:

 

1.  Instead of "I'm accepted, therefore I obey," the reality is that because one walks in obedience to the Law of Christ under the New Covenant, he is accepted. We find this in numerous passages that reference the New Covenant throughout the NT Scriptures. Those who do not know or understand ANE covenants cannot see this in the Scriptures, yet it is there. Numerous Scriptures, such as II Cor. 6:17 where we are told in no uncertain terms that unless we practice walking in holiness, we will not be received, whether one "got saved" or not.

 

2.  "Motivation is based upon grateful joy." Actually, this is Reformed Theology at its weakest...because, first of all, joy only comes from walking in relationship with God. The more we walk in relationship with Him, the closer we walk with Him, which gives us more joy, which motivates us to strive to walk even closer with Him. Engaging God in personal relationship is where the motivation comes from ultimately, which is one reason why, even though many Reformed persons chant this mantra, they play it up as having joy when they really don't, and have no motivation for anything but playing church. But in denominations where you are taught that there's nothing that you have to do in order to walk with God, just have faith and that takes care of everything nonsense, very few actually enter into personal relationship with God, so very few have the joy of the Spirit.

 

3.  "I obey God to get to God-to delight and resemble Him."  This one is really tricky...the OP says above that you obey because you have been accepted, and here it says that you obey in order to "get to God," the OP sounds confused. The Scriptures teach that we obey God because He is God, first and foremost. If you does not walk in obedience to God, then he is in the world following satan, just as Jesus tells us in John 8:44. Those who walk in obedience to God have Him as their father, and those who do not walk in obedience to God - regardless if they have "gotten saved" in the past - have satan as their father because they are doing what he wants them to do. The other reason why we are commanded to walk in obedience to God, is because if we do not, then we do not remain abiding in the New Covenant, that is - in Christ. Another reason is that God moves in the lives of others through our obedience, and when we fail to obey, He does not work in their lives. That is not a legalistic statement, He can and does work in some people's lives by Himself, but that is not the norm.

 

4.  "When circumstances in my life go wrong, I struggle but I know all my punishment fell on Jesus and that while he may allow this for my training, he will exercise his Fatherly love within my trial."  This one sounds like Calvinism straight up...and it is Scripturally in error. We do have struggles, and if we fall into sin but are still striving to walk with God, then those failures are taken care of as long as we are walking in obedience to Him (I John 2:10; 1:7). God's love will not temper His judgment, and that is what the OP here seems to be saying. If we have ceased to remain abiding in Christ, then no amount of grace, faith, obedience, or anything else will help the person during their "trial." Salvation and eternal life are taught in the Scriptures as being covenant gifts, and covenant gifts are only given and maintained by those who are abiding in Christ, the Living New Covenant of God.

 

5.  "...My identity is not built on my record or my performance but on God’s love for me in Christ..."  This is extreme error, and not Scriptural in the least bit. Our identity in Christ is solidly based upon the fact that we are abiding in Christ. If one is not in Christ, then his identity is with the world, that is what the Scriptures teach. What most in Reformed churches today fail to understand, because Reformed Theology has no basis in ANE covenant knowledge (so-called "covenant theology" is riddled with half-truths and outright false teachings, that it has no basis in ANE covenanting), is that Redemptive covenants (which the New Covenant is) have what is called covenant law. That law today is the Law of Christ, the covenant law of the New Covenant. If one does not walk in obedience to that covenant law, then one is not in the covenant which it originates from (in this case, the New Covenant). The Law of Christ is found explained by John in I John 3:23-24.

 

6.  "My prayer life consists of generous stretches of praise and adoration. My main purpose is fellowship with Him."  Absolutely!!! According to John 17:1, engaging God in an intimate personal love relationship is the whole reason why we are saved and given eternal life in the first place.

 

7.  "...In Christ I am simul iustus et peccator—simultaneously sinful and lost yet accepted in Christ. I am so bad he had to die for me and I am so loved he was glad to die for me..."  Parts here are unscriptural, although inherent to Reformed Theology. Those who are walking with God are not sinful...we still have a sin nature and so are prone to fall into sin, but sinful means that one is living a lifestyle of blatant, purposeful sin, practicing sin, and John tells us that those who practice sinning are not God's, do not know God, and never have come to Him in the first place. No one who practices sin is "accepted in Christ." The only ones who are accepted in Christ are those who are "in Christ," and the only way to be "in Christ" according to the Scriptures, is to be walking in obedience to Him, separating ourselves from the world, and touching no unclean thing. I realize that to some that will be a "legalistic" statement - but those in Reformed circles are taught an inaccurate definition of what legalistic is. There is "legal" and then there is "legalistic." Walking in obedience to God is being "legal" according to His standard, not legalistic. Legalistic is beating others over the head in an effort to make them "fall in line" with the legal. There is a difference.

Secondly, Christ did not die for us because we are "so bad," and that shows a great misunderstanding of the atonement. God didn't have to send Christ to be our ultimate atonement, He could have just left things the way they were and we would have to kill an animal every time we sinned. However, God wanted real intimacy, which required a more perfect sacrifice for sin. It has nothing to do with how wicked we were, it has everything to do with the fact that atonement had to be made that would take care of our sin unlike it was under the Old Covenant - sacrifice for every sin committed. Today, under the New Covenant, we are told that as long as we are walking in covenant relationship with God, striving to walk in obedience to Him as a lifestyle, then our sins are washed away automatically by the blood of Christ (I John 1:7).

 

8.  "...I am saved by sheer grace. So I can’t look down on those who believe or practice something different from me. Only by grace I am what I am...."

First, no one is saved "by sheer grace" as it is stated here - but that might be an oversimplification on the OP's part. One must meet the criteria in order to be heard by God on high...that is, if a person does not come to faith in Christ, and choose to repent from his former lifestyle of sin, then he can say all the sinner's prayers that he wants to, but God will not forgive the man or woman who does not first repent from practicing the sins that they did in their "former ignorance" as Peter puts it. That is why Peter says in Acts 2:38 that one must repent and then receive water baptism into Christ...because baptism is nothing if the person has not repented. God will not forgive the unrepentant man because there is no reason to...if he is not going to cease from his sins then the application of Christ's precious blood to his life would be a complete waste.

The phrase, "Only by grace I am what I am" is completely false. Grace is not a force, it cannot do anything to make you anything...when we itemize grace (charis) we find that, when the rubber meets the road, grace is the love of God in action towards mankind. Simply put, grace is God's love...and love can make you do things, but it cannot do those things in and of itself. I am what I am today because of God's love for me and the strength the indwelling Spirit provide, giving me the ability to walk in obedience to Him. All too many times, Reformed Theology throws out the human element in the Divine relationship equation, and spouts "its all grace and nothing of me," and that is not Scriptural in the least bit. It is a religious statement, and belongs in the first part of the OP.

 

9.  this statement isn't really a Scriptural teaching, but the way that a person who is walking closely to God might feel...but, honestly, I have met few people who actually can be like that, especially when they are about to lose a home or something else that means a lot to them. It is a good target to shoot for...

Then the last concluding statement...

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"So many of us have some form of religion,but what is religion and what is the difference between religion and relationship,Tim Keller wrote some very good points about the difference between religion and the gospel ,do we recognize the difference and why or why not we think or do certain things? Are we doing it for the right reason?"

 

Many do not recognize when they are being religious, and many don't know the difference because they have never been taught how to have a relationship with God. Many in the church world today (outside of Pentecostalism) are taught that they have a relationship with God because they have faith...but that is not taught anywhere in the Scriptures. If you go to church, sing some songs, listen to someone speak (and more and more today that is what they are doing, just speaking, not preaching, not having the call into ministry and so not being gifted to preach or teach), then have some fellowship, go home, and not pray at home, not worship at home, not spend time with God in the Word at home, not spending intimate quality time with God at home...then you have religion, not relationship.

 

It's quite simple...we have relationship with God much the same way that we have relationship with other people...we talk with them, spend time with them, do things together with them...etc. The only difference is, the things that we do are not so much with Him, but to Him and for Him.

 

Blessings!

 

Thanks Marilyn!

 

 

Mrilyn said...

 

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Hi SwordMaster,

Glad you got back to me. Thank you for even going through all those `Do you...`(which we all need to address regularly). Now what comes to mind is that somehow you have the wrong impression of ministry. God uses us wherever we are. So to me you are in God`s extreme training arena. For to have a spouse treat one like that is a huge, trial, physically, emotionally & spiritually.

 

 

Concerning ministry, I have been in ministry for over 35 years, and I know the right impression of ministry. While we are all called to be ministers as in witnessing to the world whenever the opportunities arise, there are also those of us who were called into the ministry by God for a specific purpose. I do not believe that I have the wrong impression of what ministry is: when God calls to ministry, that calling is sure and it will come to the place where God has called it to come....

 

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Yes you may have potential to minister out to others, however you need to see what God would require of you right now at home with your wife. Obviously you have tried all the things that usually draw another one. But...your wife, sounds like she`s hurt, (hurting people hurt) & has chosen to block you out & do things to annoy you. And only God can heal her.

 

I think you are missing the main point here...the reason that she is rejecting what I do is because she has chosen to embrace homosexual left-field nonsense in place of the Truth of God's Word. She knows what the Bible says about homosexuality, yet she has chosen to say that the Scriptures don't give us all the details and science says people are born homosexual, therefore its not a sin to be a homosexual, its just a sin to be having homosexual sex outside of marriage.

This is the cause of the consternation between us now...its nothing that I have done (outside of Scripture) or haven't done. 

Also, I understand what you are trying to say above (I think, anyway), but God comes first...always. As long as my wife is in line with what God says that we are to do and live (which she is not, on many points she is walking in direct disobedience to the Word), then we can live and love and work things out. Unfortunately, she is not, at this point in time. I don't know if that came across the way that I intended it to...I don't have the "master of the house" mentality like so many do today. What I am trying to say is that if she is living like God tells us to, and I am also, then everything works out when we are placing God first.

Right now she is not doing that, therefore...aside from gently ministering to her in ways that I feel God might be leading me to, I cannot 'pursue' her, for lack of a better way to put it. In other words, I am still giving her cards, flowers, complimenting her, etc... and doing the things that a loving husband does, as much as is in me, along with prayer and even some meals fasted...but I cannot make her first before all things, and that is what it sounds like you are advising above.

If I misunderstood, please forgive.

 

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Meanwhile what do you do.....I suggest

1. that you take that `great expectation of ministry` out of the air. I`m sure your wife has felt that pressure.

 

 

Two things here: first, there is no expectation of ministry in the air as far as she is concerned. God called me, not her...while I have heard people say before that when one is in ministry, both of them are if the one is married, but that is not only not in Scripture, but it is also a very fleshly viewpoint of ministry. She would be my...'support'...but she made it very clear when we were engaged that she would not do anything having to do with ministry. She is not the kind of person that likes to be in the spotlight, and she doesn't like to be made known. She is one of those behind the curtain types that is willing to do and not be recognized for it - that is one of her strong points. 

She can be very accommodating to others to a fault (which has put us in trouble in the past, and even right now), to everyone, that is, except me. She has never supported anything that I have done or tried to do, ministry or otherwise, from the very beginning - as far as I know, not even in prayer. Now that I think about these things and remember them, perhaps it is becoming clearer that she never was saved in the first place....

Second, the suggestion to leave ministry behind, even temporarily, is something that the darkness would very much like to see. While I am not today in full-time ministry, I am involved in conducting Bible studies and witnessing, none of which she has anything to do with. No insult intended.

 

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2. You need to ask God to love you wife with Christ`s love. That is only possible by the Holy Spirit. It means to love another while they are hurting you. See 2 Peter 1: 1 - 8. There is a list of `add to`s..` & the final one is `love,` which of course is Christ`s love.` Not possible in our selves & thus we need to draw upon the Holy Spirit`s enabling.

 

Been there and doing that...the problem is, having rejected God's Word on a point, Romans 1 shows that when someone does that, God 'gives them over' to greater and greater darkness, since they have rejected light and have chosen to embrace darkness. I am praying for her salvation and coming to the knowledge of the truth first and foremost (I Tim. 2:4), even before our marriage relationship, because that is what's most important to God, I believe. Even if we do end up separated, she still needs to be walking with God, and that is my highest desire for her right now.

Having said that, the hardest part for me right now is that she has chosen to reject the Word of God and to embrace darkness...that is the biggest impact right now not only in our relationship, but also in the house at large. Her ungodly behavior is influencing our children towards the darkness, which is pitting them all against me, the only godly person in the house at this point. I don't know if you can understand how much physical, mental,  and emotional stress that places upon me...but if things don't change, and soon...here within a few months (if I haven't already had a heart attack) I am just going to have to call it quits. Not because I really want to, but because if I don't, I won't be around much longer.

 

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Obviously you have been `diligent, have self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness,` but yet to reach the high mark of Christ`s love.

 

I see this remark here as an assumption on your part, and it kind of offends. I know that you probably didn't mean it to, but it does. The only thing that I can say to this that is short and sweat, is that one night while bending over the couch praying and seeking God's will for my ministry (that is, what He wants my main ministry message to be), He spoke into my spirit and told me, "Teach My people how to love Me." That was it...and it took me a few to understand exactly what He meant, but I got it.

I know what the high mark of Christ's love is, thank you for sharing your thoughts. 

 

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Once you experienced that you will not be concerned so much with what your wife does (to irritate you) but will see her as Christ does, - a lost soul who is hurting, troubled & covering up all that pain by seeming to not care etc.

 

I believe that I do see her as Christ sees her, which is why I am spending my time praying for her to get saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Again, we all have pain of one kind or another, we are all hurting and broken and need Christ to mend us because He is the only one who really can. However, what's going on in the house right now really doesn't have very much to do with relationship, it has to do with someone who at one time attended church, worshiped, prayed, read their Bible, etc., now having turned from all of that, yet still having the deception within their mind to believe that she is still a Christian.

 

Perhaps it would be better to look at it from this viewpoint...if I was never saved before, neither my wife, and my children were never brought up in church...but we were all lost sinners up until last year, and then I was the only one who got saved in the family...this is the passage that continually comes to mind...

 

Matthew 10:21-22

Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

Matthew 10:34-36

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

 

Does this come upon us because of anything that we do? No, it comes upon those who are born after the spirit through those who are only of the flesh, the light against the darkness. I never thought that it would enter into my house, but it has. 

 

Blessings

 

 

 

Marilyn said...

 

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Hi SwordMaster,

You do seem to have a full hand of difficulties. Now we know we cannot change others. God is about changing us. Yes I hear all the difficulties of what others are doing, BUT it is YOU that believes in God & it is YOU He is dealing with. Thus I would say ask the Lord what is something you can work on in your attitude.

 

 

Hello Marilyn! Yes, I am working on myself as well, but not just for her, but for myself. I always try to improve myself, to be better at things that I notice about myself that can have an improvement, not just in attitude but also in the way I do things. 

 

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Do you come over critical?

 

That is a hard one...I will say that I have been at times, like anyone has, but not to the extent that it was overbearing, nor did I use critical comments like some do as a way to bash someone, or bully them into submission. The kids are grown up now, and my wife still acts like a teenager (sloppy, self-centered, and lazy) so I try to not say something unless, for example, she did something and three days later its still sitting there. I think that I am being more than patient enough, and sometimes feel like she is just doing it on purpose to make me angry.

 

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Do you Bible bash?

 

No, I never have. I witnessed that kind of nonsense behavior while in the Marine Corps, and it does no one any good, really. We used to talk about Scripture, but ever since she has turned to believe that its OK to cuss and be a homosexual, that God will still accept you (as well as other things), we don't talk about Scripture much anymore. It always seems to engender arguments.

 

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Do you hold a grudge as you can`t do `your ministry?`

 

No, I have come to understand that this needs to be 'handled' and taken care of before I can actually go into full time ministry. That is one reason why I am here...because one way or the other, I am not letting her keep me from what God has called me to do. I believe that is why Jesus said that we cannot love others more than we love Him, because it may very well come down to the point that we have to separate ourselves from our loved ones in order to walk with God. Neither my wife, nor my children, will keep me from doing what God has called me to do. There are thousands of lives at stake heading for eternity without God...I am not saying that I am "the one" but I know and understand that God works through people.

 

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Do you just give gifts to get something?

 

No, all I give her today are small cards with meaningful saying on them, and even those she is rejecting and throwing away. 

 

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Do you know what speaks to you wife? (not gifts, or affection, maybe words or actions of help around the house)

 

No, for one reason or another. I read the 5 Love Languages by Chapman and tried to figure it out, but couldn't. I asked her to read it and tell me, and she refused. I came right out and asked her, "What makes you feel loved?" and she said, "If you don't know then you never will. I'm not telling you." Now, you tell me what kind of attitude that is!

 

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Do you appreciate some things about her? Do you tell her?

 

I used to until everything that I did and told her was rejected right off the cuff.

 

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Do you always concentrate on the negative?

 

No...but that doesn't matter any longer as far as she is concerned. Anything I say is negative. When I told her that God's word condemns homosexual behavior, she told me that I was being negative. So, how do you deal with a person that labels everything as negative that you do or say just because they don't agree with it? That's like someone yelling "Grace, grace, grace" all the time and leaving the real world behind.

 

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I don`t know you but those `Do you...` are things we all can try to address in any relationship.

 

So true.

 

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Now are you `man enough` in the Lord to ask Him & let Him highlight areas in your life.

 

Yep, and we have been doing that lately. Not just in my marriage, but in life in general. 

 

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As YOU change then I believe your wife will soften. it seems to me she has put up a wall against some of your attitudes.

 

So far that hasn't worked...as I said, anything that I say or do in effort to move past this and move forward, including all the loving gestures that I make, are automatically rejected. Its as if she has already made up her mind that she wants a divorce, but isn't saying anything because she wants it to be my 'idea.' But you are right, she has built up a wall, but not just against any attitude that I have...

I will try again, with a lot of prayer, but as you said in the beginning, we can't change anyone...God can, but only if the person lets Him. I have had a part of my theology thoroughly being tested here with all of this: will God change a person against their will? I have always said no...and now that I see something happening in my own life, and desire the answer to be yes, I can't be like that. God gave us free will, and I have heard all my life people talking about how they prayed for someone for 30 years to get saved but they never did.

 

All I can see is that God can, but He will not make someone do something that they do not want to do...so, in a way, its all in her lap. I don't want us to end, but I can't keep living like this.

 

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Praying for you & your family.

 

Thank you!

Blessings!

 

 

MissMuffet said...

 

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1. You are married but you believed that your wife was a Christian or a born again Christian? You know there is a difference. If a true believer marries an unbeliever they are unevenly yoked.Do you believe that both of you loved each other with your whole heart when you were married?

2. Just because someone attends a Church does not make them a Christian. A born again Christian can be recognized if a person evaluates them long enough.

 

That I honestly do not know, but yes, I know there is a difference between believers and unbelievers, and that we are not supposed to marry unbelievers. As I said in the OP, she was attending church at the time I met her, but being a young man and yet to gain some "Christian life experience," I didn't think to . . . "check" her, for lack of a better term.

 

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3. No marriage is perfect. The most successful marriages are those who put God first in their marriage.If not the marriage is going to struggle.

 

Granted, but part of the reason, I believe, is that she had never done this. We would pray together every night, worship God at home every night, etc...but when "stuff hit the fan" between us and she got her feelings hurt, rather than go to God (which you would have if you had made Him first, no?), instead she would curl up on a proverbial ball, keep it all inside, and never talk about it, not even to me except when it became so great that she lashed out in anger. I have tried several times over the years to get her to go to counseling with me, but she refuses. She is a...'private' person...and doesn't even let her own family know what's going on either inside her, or in our marriage. That has been one of the hard things to deal with her with. No man, or woman, is an island, we were not created to be, and living like that does damage to us. Hence, this is how I think her heart has become hard over the years through "a root of bitterness" that only God can break through...if she lets Him.

 

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4. No one actually wants to get divorced and that should be the last option.

 

Agreed...

 

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5. Homosexuality is not a Biblical belief. We are to love the homosexual but not love their sinful behavior.

 

Agreed.

 

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6.Why has your wife turned away from God? Have you asked her? If you are a born again Christian you are going to have to be the example to her of how a person behaves when he loves the Lord. Show much fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

She does not believe that she has turned away from God. She believes that those churches who have turned and embraced homosexual ideologies are on the right track, and that churches who have not are..."out of date" or old fashioned, or whatever. She has told me, "I don't think anyone believes the way you do anymore." She is wrong, of course, but she thinks she is right. 

Can a believer believe a false doctrine and still be a Christian? Yes, I believe so (of course, that depends upon what the false belief is - for example, a person cannot even get saved if they do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh according to John 8:24), but when this happens, its like a Protestant being married to a Catholic...or an Armenian being married to a Calvinist. It engenders darkness in the household because of the conflict of basic tenets of the persons' faiths.

 

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7. One of the Biblical reasons for divorce is abandonment by an unbeliever 1 Corinthians 7:15. So if she leaves you that is her problem.

 

Agreed, but part of the problem here is that she has said that I just need to leave. I think that would change if she thought about all that this would entail - but as you said, that is the unbeliever's lot, not mine. I can not see myself filing unless things get to the point that I just can't handle it anymore and have no choice.

 

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8. Yes, you are in a very difficult position. Remember in the book of Job in the Bible how much criticism Job got from his wife and friends and family? But Job remained faithful to God through all of that. I recommend that you give this whole thing to God and pray often.

 

Yes, I have given everything over to God and pray about things at least once a day, sometimes two and three, like Daniel praying at his window three times a day. I remember Job, but I don't remember reading that anyone but his wife actually being in opposition to him, his children aren't recorded as being obstinate toward him, and his friends were actually trying to help him. But I get your general meaning...yes, I guess maybe I have felt a little like he must have been for a while, and I am holding on for as long as possible, hoping all the while that she gets saved so that we can reconcile.

That is one of my issues...I cannot reconcile with her if she is not going to walk in obedience to God, no fiber in my being seems to be able to accept that.

 

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9.I do not know what your beliefs are or what denomination you are so I can not comment on that. I also am only hearing one side of the story so it is hard to evaluate the whole picture. It is best to get two sides of a story.

 

Yes, and I agree...unfortunately, as I stated above, she refuses to talk with a counselor...even a husband and wife counselor. She doesn't like being told that she is wrong, even when she is, and I suspect that that is one reason why she refuses to see counselors out of fear that they might tell her that she is doing something wrong.

As for my denominational beliefs...I am non-denominational, but that has very little to do with the OP so that is why I left that out.

 

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10. Not having sexual relationships puts a hardship on a marriage. It draws the couple farther and farther apart.

 

Agreed. We had attended many marriage 'seminars' in our home church when we were first married, and learned many things about marriage, and that was one of them. She should remember that point, which appears to me to be one of the signs of just how far gone she is, as far as wanting to be married. I could be wrong.

 

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Have the two of you discussed any of this with your Pastor or attended marriage counseling?

 

No, as I stated in the OP, she quit going to church about 3-4 years ago...and she refuses to go to counseling.

 

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I am sorry that you are dealing with the Leukemia. That is difficult.

 

God is here in my leukemia situation...I believe that He is going to heal me physically (not with death, some believe death is a healing, but that is not in Scripture anywhere), but on His timing. Thanks for the concern!

 

And thanks for answering,

Blessings!

 

 

So, I am looking for some wisdom from others, in the midst of many counselors, to see if I am missing anything or have failed to think of something along the lines of which I write.

 

In order to make this shorter than what it would be, I will bring the problem to you by numbers:

 

1.  I am married.

2.  When we married, I believed that my wife was a Christian because she attended church (I have since learned over the years that just because a person attends church does not mean that they are a Christian, particularly since the word means someone who is actively following Christ in obedience); it never occurred to me to ask her if she ever 'went through the motions' of getting saved. I do not want to debate what some believe the "steps" to getting saved are, that is not the point of the OP.

3.  We have had our issues just as any marriage does, but we have never committed acts that were so heinous in marriage that called for a divorce (thank God), and we have always eventually been able to get over things and move forward.

4.  Having said all that, I love my wife and do not want to be divorced... As you can probably see here, there is a "but" at the end of that statement.

5.  Those in my wife's family who were saved, have one by one turned to believe the unscriptural ideology that homosexuals are born as homosexuals, against the clear teaching of the Scriptures (if you are a homosexual or side with the homosexual left, please, I do NOT want to hear from you here, we can discuss the subject matter elsewhere. Thank you). I am not homophobic, we are to love on all people regardless of their sin. Love the sinner as God does, but hate their sin - I do not confuse the two.

6.  Over the past 3 years my wife has stopped going to church, stopped reading her Bible, stopped praying (as a lifestyle - she claims to pray whenever someone in the family needs something...), stopped worshiping God, stopped spending personal quiet time with God...in effect, according to what the Scriptures teach, she is today only a Christian by name. She does not walk in obedience to the Scriptures, and now even tells our children (all 18 or over) that it is OK for them to do whatever they want to do within the law, because they are adults. She gives them no Godly counsel, but if they want to smoke dope in the house, according to her that's fine because its now legal.

I hope you are getting the big picture here.

7.  I am conflicted...I do not want to end up in divorce, but here is my side of the coin: I am not bound - for all intensive purposes - to an unbeliever. What relationship does light have with darkness? 

8.  Because of this homosexual thing (as well as others outside of Christian thought), and her changing her once Christian view to that of the world, in rejecting God's Word on the subject matter and choosing instead to embrace the lies of the homosexual world (even when there isn't any scientific evidence for it), I am now pitted against not only her entire family, but her, and because of her, our children. I don't know if you can imagine it or not, but this is having a huge impact upon my mental and physical health through the stress involved. I have CML (Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia) and this stress is not good for my body, particularly meshing with the chemotherapy drug that I have to take. The more mental and physical stress that I have, the more pain I suffer.

9. Another key element that is pertinent to the discussion - at age 21 I was called into the ministry through a prophetic revelation, which was confirmed over the years by four different evangelists in different church meetings. Sine then God has shown me many things in Scripture that I never heard of before in all my life in church (I was born and raised in church, so practically all my life), and I am not talking crazy unbiblical stuff as some have the habit of doing, thinking they are some kind of prophet. 

For example, I never heard teaching about the New Covenant before (all I ever heard about it was its brief mention whenever pastor would read the Passover section before we partook of communion), nor that Jesus Christ is the living embodiment of the New Covenant (Isa. 42:6; 49:8). Things of this nature.

My point is this, because of all the turmoil in the house now because of her switch "to the dark side" if you will, I cannot perform ministry as I could when she was standing beside me, nor does she want to have anything to do with ministry any longer because, in her words, "No body believes what you believe anymore," speaking of the homosexual agenda. While it is true that many churches and denominations are turning away from God, I am sure that some here will agree that just because they are, does not mean that God has changed what He clearly states in His Word. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever...He does not change just because this country is going over the deep end.

10.  One more key element, is that she has apparently - because of our conflict because her family has active homosexuals in it - decided to cut herself off from me, in practically every way. We have not had sexual relations in almost a year (giving this as the first symptom in no way implies that this is so important to me that I am willing to divorce over it), she no longer tells me that she loves me, and when I asked her last, she shrugged her shoulders as if she is trying to make up her mind whether she does or not. She repeatedly ignores my efforts to improve the relationship (but I will not compromise my relationship with God), throws my cards away, lets the flowers die without any attention whatsoever...doesn't want me to touch her (speaking of non-sexual touch, which at this point is completely off the table), and she can't speak to me without harshness and apparent anger, no matter what the words are.

I can handle rejection from others, because I could always come home and find acceptance in my wife and children - but no more. This is a kind of rejection that, while I probably could handle on a repeated basis as if from work or friends, this is different - this is constant rejection from people that I live with on a daily, hourly, basis. I can only handle so much, it becomes so depressing that even prayer doesn't help.

 

There it is. I am praying for her to get saved, first and foremost, but I cannot wait years for this to take place. If she ever was saved to begin with, that no longer matters (again, I am not interested in hearing about any calvinistic doctrinal statements about salvation and eternal life, that is not the issue here). I cannot continue living with a person that wants nothing to do with me, does not love me (apparently by her actions), does not walk in obedience to God, and chooses to believe the lies of the world over and above God's Word. In my mind, when you reject God's Word for the world, you are rejecting God Himself. And according to Romans 1, when a person rejects the truth of God - whatever that truth might be - He gives them over to more darkness, to continue to believe more and more false ideologies.

 

I will let it rest for now and any discussion that comes will most likely bring out more detail, but I have sat here thinking about it too much already and it is affecting me. If you have any words of wisdom - NOT argument about things that don't really matter in the OP - then please say on...I am listening.

 

Thank you and blessings!