53 minutes ago, other one said:

you should be able to carry on three conversations at a time on threads here....   the only way to kill a thread is to get ugly and have it locked......     I've seen ten year old threads resurrected  when everyone thought they were dead.

Seriously you will find that we seldom stay on subject on threads here, and quite often small groups of people stray off on personal rabbit holes....   all in all it's the best place around though and if you keep your head about you can be some cool side conversations.

I noticed old threads appearing in the new posts window but when I saw the date it was years prior. I understand topics being led off topic. I've participated in a few of those myself.
I think the deliberate derailing so as to impart an atmosphere of hostility and thus forewarn others of what a thread is descending into tends to cause people to leave the thread. They just don't want to participate in such nonsense.

I also keep forgetting that children are permitted on the forum. Then I am reminded of such when certain remarks appear. That is something to consider also. I've attended forums where there's an age minimum and children aren't typically present. Though of course there's no way to actually confirm the adult age bar that a new registrant must meet.

I appreciate the advice other one.

1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Source: Senate Called to White House

So what's next?

We'll have to wait and see.
I think this is good of President Trump to hope for a bipartisan congress concerning north Korea and the future steps that may be necessary. Rather than making a speech on the floor asking for bipartisan support on the record, he's bringing them in to likely show them intelligence the public wouldn't be privy to.

A report surfaced last week saying Jung-un could have his own stockpile of nerve gas. Whether that is true I don't know. However, during the parade of weaponry in north Korea during their day of the sun celebration, it appeared that many of the missiles and rockets being hauled in the parade were fake. The tips of more than one missile seemed to be feeling the heat because even members of the press corp noticed they were curving a little .

Jung-un would know of course what he really has in his arsenal. But that he's still making threats to unleash weapons of mass destruction if.... Is worthy of concern. He's demonstrated he's not exactly stable.

It's like that old saying a friend of mine use to have. A crazy bloke off medication is scary . But a crazy bloke with a nuke is something to be watched.

I admire Trump's inviting this meeting of Senators to the White house. It shows a willingness to work together for the common good of addressing the threat that Jung-un could present to the world.

"The military might of a country represents its national strength. Only when it builds up its military might in every way can it develop into a thriving country." Kim Jung-un New Years speech January 1, 2013

Psalm 109:17
He also loved cursing, so it came to him; And he did not delight in blessing, so it was far from him.
 

On 4/23/2017 at 0:44 AM, a tryer said:

just watched passion again, God certainly works in it. Mel sacrificed his life by shooting this, nearly came back to the faith with Hacksaw Ridge but his next showed he had not quite come to respect Jesus again. I pray Mel will, he has been thro the mill.

Do you know Mel Gibson?

13 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

 

There are two kinds of Christians.   There are those who simply exist in the external Christian community, who belong to the Christian "religion."   And there are those who are born again by the Spirit of God through faith in Christ alone for salvation.   Dying as a Christian doesn't automatically guarantee that someone died in Christ.

In your opinion as one who promotes the OP article as worthy of respect but the dead not so, nor are they worthy of  being identified as Christians when their murderers even did so, there are two kinds of Christians.

 The Orthodox Christian church and the Christians within are in Christ. 

Orthodox Christians have Jesus.

32 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I wasn't addressing the OP.  I was addressing a different comment.

And the OP is correct.  Just because someone dons the title of "Christian"  it doesn't mean they are part of authentic NT Christianity.  

I'd disagree that your remark about someone identifying as Christian and those questioning that provide that Christian an opportunity to give their testimony. The OP article in as much proves this by using the words you're using now quoted above. The article posted says just because the Coptic Orthodox Christians called themselves Christians doesn't mean we should assume they are Christian. 
 

Your prior remark that I addressed, If you are a truly born again believer, and someone questions your salvation, that should not offend you.  If anything, it gives you an opportunity to give your testimony, doesn't pertain to the OP because those victims of the Muslim terrorist attack in the churches on Palm Sunday are dead now. Or horribly injured if any survived the blasts. Now, the article you posted stating we should mourn them but not assume they were Christian, rather than engendering sincere sympathy for lost sisters and brothers among members here, or the Net public that reads the original published at Pulpit & Pen affords a different style of assault on the Coptic Orthodox Christian dead.

One that says, as you've made mention here, just because they said they were Orthodox Coptic Christians doesn't mean they were Christians.
If being part of the authentic New Testament Church qualifies one to be respected in death as a fallen Christian, when even the Muslim terrorists who killed themselves so as to kill members of two different Coptic Orthodox Christian churches did so because they believed those church members were Christian, then there's no question the Coptic Orthodox Christians are Christian. Their church and the tenets pertaining to Grace, Faith, Redemption, Salvation, Baptism, are older than the denomination you are member of. That I'm member of.

Furthermore, your observation actually violates what I read in the TOS here. Members here aren't permitted to claim someone here is not a Christian when they identify as that. If that charge is opportune for testimony, I'd think a site that represents as a ministry on the Net would not make it a violation of the member terms of service to question or doubt openly a member is a member of Christ's church.
But this thread takes a broad brush and swipes it across all the dead in two churches in Egypt and says, that very thing.

What opportunity is afforded people martyred for their faith to defend they died as Christians?

What member of Christ's church with God's Holy Spirit sealed inside themselves, and with the wisdom of Holy God's only Son in their heart wherein we are told to show love to one another, charity, compassion, support, would insist first with this thread, that those who are dead and unable to speak for themselves could not testify they were Christians because they are not?

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

 

If you are a truly born again believer, and someone questions your salvation, that should not offend you.  If anything, it gives you an opportunity to give your testimony. 

That's an invalid observation with regard to the content and message in the OP. 

17 hours ago, angels4u said:

Where did you read anybody saying that the Egyptian Christians were not in Christ?

 

I admit I am a bit confused by your question. The thread title indicates it. The whole of the article shared by Shiloh357 states it. The Coptic Orthodox Christians that were the subject of the article were murdered in two different Orthodox churches in Egypt when ISIS terrorist suicide bombers entered in on Palm Sunday and blew themselves up.
ISIS has said it intends to divide all of Egypt by killing the Christians.

I don't know how you missed what was being claimed about the dead Coptic Christians in the churches.  Mourn them but don't assume they're Christian? When they were blown apart by explosives in churches on Palm Sunday?

Quote

And who put curses on the dead? That's a big accusation..

That would be. Who did this?

Or, people just don't wish to participate in something that is already targeted by one person with intention to create a thread kill. 

US citizen detained by North Korea as Japanese ships join war games

Amid rising tensions between North Korea and the US, Pyongyang has detained a US citizen, officials said on Sunday, bringing to three the number of Americans now being held in the country.

As two Japanese navy ships joined a US carrier group for exercises in the western Pacific, North Korea threatened to sink a US aircraft carrier.

“Our revolutionary forces are combat-ready to sink a US nuclear-powered aircraft carrier with a single strike,” the Rodong Sinmun, the newspaper of the North’s ruling Workers’ party, said in a commentary.

The paper likened the aircraft carrier to a “gross animal” and said a strike on it would be “an actual example to show our military’s force”. The commentary was carried on page three of the newspaper, after a two-page feature about the country’s leader, Kim Jong-un, inspecting a pig farm.

Donald Trump ordered the USS Carl Vinson carrier strike group to sail to waters off the Korean peninsula in response to rising tension over the North’s nuclear and missile tests, and its threats to attack the US and its Asian allies. [More reading]

17 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Calvin believe baptism saves.

No, that was a misrepresentation of John Calvin's teachings. While he believed in infant baptism also, he did not teach that baptism saves.

16 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

A lot of Christians don't want the whole word or they change the meaning of James. Not by faith only. The only means not alone in this case. They don't understand we are also saved from bondage to sin and unrighteousness.  So we can do good works. We are forgiven and also freed from this body of sin and death. Resulting in holiness and fruit until everlasting life.

I agree with you. I've heard the shortening of that passage of scripture used on occasion. Typically in conversations wherein the OSAS argument is underway. Justification by faith alone isn't Biblical. Just as James imparts in total in that passage.

The last time Chrislovesfish2 was in our community was March 30th. The day after posting this thread.  I thought this was a new posting when I saw it in the "Recent Posts" column. I'm holding Chrislovesfish2 in prayer being the topic of their first and only post breaks my heart and causes concern since they've not been back.

If anyone would like to join in prayer for Chrislovesfish2 perhaps they will feel the love and realize the love of God surrounds them always so that they may live and grow in Christ. Just my thoughts for our hurting sister or brother, Chrislovesfish2.

32 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The minute the article suggested that salvation is incorporation in Christ's death through baptism, it is clear they do not accept imputed righteousness.

Do you know the origin of the western Christian doctrine of Imputed Righteousness as you understand it?

11 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes  and everything you posted only supports my point.   You do not hold to Salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.   You view works in addition to faith for salvation  And you do not hold to imputed righteousness, which is the heart of justification by faith alone.   You may use the same terms, but you mean something different than we do.

Firstly allow me to correct your presumption. I am not Orthodox.

To continue. The claim you make beginning with your second sentence has been proven through the same resource to be false. I won't post that resource as it is being ignored as a fact source to correct error that insists on repeating itself so as to consistently misrepresent the actual facts of Orthodox Christian church faith and practice. Those tactics as employed are not biblical.

They introduce the allergen in pure form into your immune system in highly diluted doses so that your immune system builds a defense to the irritant.

28 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Just a side question sir.  Do the EO believe in the speaking of tongues and have you ever heard of any that attends doing so. Does it occur in the service meetings ?.  thanks.

I'll share this Orthodox Christian church resource to help answer your question brother. "Glossolalia" is the word in the article for tongues.

Speaking in tongues - the Orthodox Christian viewpoint

"This is the excerpt from the last part of the article for brevity as it is a long article. "The Orthodox Church does not rule out Glossolalia. She simply does not regard it as one of the important ones. Better to "speak five words that can be understood...than speak thousands of words in strange tongues." This is the Orthodox Christian viewpoint." "

29 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, they're just worded in a way that confuses people who don't understand the relationship of works and salvation in the EO church.   In the EO, baptism is necessary for salvation.    When the EO says we are not saved by works, they mean "the works of the law"  (circumscision, kosher laws, Sabbath, etc).   They believe that good works are necessary for salvation and I have directly cited more than one EO site that denies imputed righteousness.  

Imputed righteousness is a biblical protestant teaching, not a RCC or EO teaching.

This resource linked below has been posted before to refute the wording of opponents of the Orthodox Christian church that make inaccurate claims about the actual faith and practice of the Orthodox church. As exampled above. 

Many here may recall reading this before.

This is excerpted from the article linked and sourced to the Orthodox Christian Church of America.
 

Quote

 

Excerpt) In the Eastern perspective, there is no thought that we must accumulate merits in order to justify ourselves before God, although our faithful often seem (as evidenced in Confession) to feel that if we are to be saved, our good works must outweigh our sins. Nor, on the other hand, is there a denial of the place and importance of good works in Christian life (Ephesians 2:8-10!). Salvation is accomplished by grace in response to faith. But that faith cannot be passive; it must express itself, not merely by confessing Jesus as “personal Lord and Savior,” but by feeding, clothing, visiting and otherwise caring for the “least” of Jesus’ brethren (Mt 25).

What we are saved from is the key issue here. Rather than view salvation primarily as a forensic liberation from guilt through imputed or imparted righteousness, we should see it as incorporation, by baptism, into Christ’s death and resurrection, such that we “die and rise” with Him. Thus we are saved from Death. We are freed from this ultimate consequence of sin and guilt—but only as a divinely bestowed gift of God’s ineffable love, expressed in the suffering death of His Son, a gift to which we respond with faith that issues in love. That response, through the action of the indwelling Spirit, enables us finally to share in Christ’s own resurrection and glorification, attaining what the Greek Fathers call theôsis or “deification” (which means existential participation in God’s life, and not ontological confusion between God and His human creatures).^[5]

Good works should thus be understood to be a response rather than a means to salvation. And God’s righteousness should be seen as a gift of loving, merciful, saving grace, rather than as a forensic tool, wielded in the service of divine judgment.

 

2 hours ago, Jeff2 said:

They really are closer to Biblical Christianity than most today! Thanks for pointing that out!

They are indeed.

If you have time I'd advise availing yourself of the linked resources that have been provided by myself and I believe Ms. Noodles shared some as well, that are direct links to and sponsored by Orthodox Christian church. The Gospel of Salvation is upheld in the Orthodox church. Grace, faith, Jesus, repentance, regeneration, baptism, etc...  Submersion baptism is typical in most Protestant churches. While pouring water over the head and forehead are often the baptismal methods in the Orthodox baptismal practice.
Jesus tells us we cannot enter the kingdom unless we are born of spirit and water. To my knowledge there is no passage wherein it is said submersion baptism is requisite.

Even taking time to attend an Orthodox service would allow you to see what transpires in worship of holy God and Jesus Christ. It is much fancier than what Protestants are use to. However, as said before, the foundation principles for the sake of saving souls, the points of Salvation, are all present in the Orthodox Christian tradition.

A church, the Coptic, began by the Apostle after Jesus' own heart, John-Mark, as were they all save Judas, and perhaps there are those that would even argue that being were it not Judas that identified our Master, the mission for which Immanuel was born could not have began so as to be accomplished, would hardly be able to be said to deny Christ and not keep to the mission for which our Lord was born and died. An Apostle that would begin a church that isn't about all that Christ taught at its core? Does that sound possible?

If you do attend an Orthodox church please if you would , post or even PM if you prefer and let me know.

God's blessings,

J.

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

I actually quoted from EO sources, so I am telling the truth.   EO rejects the true Gospel.

The Orthodox Christian resources posted in all of the recent topics concerning the Orthodox Christian practice prove that to be an inaccurate statement regarding the faith and practice of the Orthodox Christian church.

20 minutes ago, Spock said:

Joshua or anyone else from an Eo church. Is this article accurate?

http://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/eastern-orthodox-christian-differs-denominations/2015/04/02/id/635781/

In matters of Salvation, in a brief review of a Newsmax article concerning Orthodox Christianity, it misspeaks a bit. Orthodox Christianity teaches the same Salvation principle as is in Protestantism. The Orthodox church does not teach that we work to achieve our Salvation as the Newsmax article seems to impart.
Rather, like unto the wisdom found in the book of James, our faith, Salvation, without works would be dead. In other words, the EO teaches that while we live we are always living and working in the light of the foundation principles of Salvation. We aren't simply saved, believe we are saved, and then fail to act as would represent our righteousness.

The 4th point in the article, respect for Mary, isn't an issue in my view. God revered Mary and held her above all women. She was the vehicle by which God delivered his only begotten son into the world. Protestants ignore Mary's preciousness in that regard. Orthodox respect her for that.

Mary's bodily ascension into Heaven isn't something Protestants refer to. It is more something that appears in the Catholic Catechism. However, many Protestants do believe that Elijah ascended into Heaven bodily per the scripture of 2 Kings chapter 2.  And of course our Lord ascended to Heaven also and before his Apostles. Why not Mary? Whether the councils that compiled the New Testament books elected to omit her ascension or not.

However, John 3:13 says, No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Perhaps it all is to remain a mystery.

Returning to the Newsmax article. Pertaining to the Eucharist. At the last supper in the upper room Jesus took the unleavened bread and the wine and told his Disciples to eat and drink those in remembrance of him. Jesus said the bread was his body, the wine was his blood. I do not fault the EO for taking Jesus at his word in contemporary times remembering as he told us to that which he laid down on the cross for our sake.

The #1 item in the Newsmax article refers to the Papacy.

1. The Authority of the Pope: Unlike Catholics, Orthodox Christians reject the authority of the pope as Christ's representative on earth. They see the pope as no greater than nor less than any other bishop (the pope is the bishop of Rome). However, this also sets them apart from Protestant denominations, who reject the notion of apostolic succession completely, believing that each individual church is obligated only to itself and to God.

I don't see an issue with that with regard to the Orthodox Christian church view. Orthodox Christianity rejects the authority of the pope as do I and all Protestants that I know.

And finally, part two of the Newsmax list. This is a great addition because part of the false criticism that often arrives on the Net against the Orthodox church is that they pray to and worship Saints.

2. The Communion of Saints: Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that those who have died in Christ are alive today in heaven and that we can communicate with them through prayer. They don't see this as worship of the saints; they believe that the saints can't act on their own power but only through interceding with Jesus on our behalf.

While there is this, 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. There is also this from Paul, with regard to Protestant beliefs in relative comparison to point 2 above.  Romans 15:30-32 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints, so that by God's will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company.

We are all saints in Christ in this life and in the one to come with the Father. The Orthodox Christian church communion of Saints, or as I see it Communion with the Saints, isn't saying they pray to the Saints in Heaven to forgive their sins. Rather, they continue as they were told in this world in matters of the saints of light praying with and for one another , and as Paul's Romans 15 epistle says, his appeal for prayers are to God on his behalf, so too are those the same being afforded the saints on earth to and for the Saints in Heaven with the Father.

Again as I read it and being you asked opinion of the Newsmax article brother.

15 minutes ago, a tryer said:

just supporting you mate I am determinably not defensive...more a peace-maker

 

I edited out the picture to save space brother. I did not take your remarks at all as offensive nor defensive. Rather inquisitive and supportive being you said you were starting to see the EO as it is.

This is the link to that site I mentioned earlier, the resource.

Christian Denominations

Where did all the Christian Denominations come from?

If you scroll down you'll see a table with a list of denominations and dates. Those appear in the chronological order in which they came to be in this world. The Coptic Orthodox Christian church, Coptic being the Egyptian word for Egyptian, was second after that of Jesus Christ. And it was founded by one of his Apostles, John-Mark in the beginning. Hard to imagine John-Mark would have no concept of the Salvation principles of Immanuel.

Below is that excerpt from the linked resource above.

Quote

 

Coptic Christians (Egyptian Oriental Orthodox) 451 A.D.

Perhaps the most amazing, strong, and devout followers of Christ on the earth. Just as the Waldensians are the most persecuted of all protestant denominations, the Coptic Christians of Egypt are the most persecuted of ALL Christian denominations, period.

Founded by John-Mark (author of the "Gospel of Mark") in the first century A.D., this church flourished under the authority of the Eastern Church (later to become the Eastern Orthodox church in 1054). At the council of Chalcedon, when the Western "Roman" church began to over reach its authority. This little group of believers was wrongly accused of monophysitism (the Christology that claims that Jesus has one combined nature of God and man). Nothing could be further from the truth as their own creed of faith clearly states that they hold to one Divine nature and one Human nature in perfect unity without mix which is essentially the orthodox position for all of historic biblical Christianity.

They were persecuted by the Western Church (early Roman Catholicism), abandoned by the Eastern Church, and eventually persecuted by the Muslims with heavy taxation, beatings, and martyrdom. Were it not for a letter to Mohammed to "spare the Copts as they are your 'kin;" The Coptic Christians would have possibly been driven out or worse, wiped out. But they survived and still exist today and are constantly in the news for all of the atrocities that the Muslim Brotherhood inflict upon them. They come under heavy persecution and have had survive almost 1500 years of constant attack.

This church is the fulfillment of the Isaiah prophecy that an "altar would be built in the midst of Egypt" and a "pillar placed" - The Coptic Christians are both an altar to the Lord and have had to be a pillar to His glory for 15 centuries!

 

9 minutes ago, a tryer said:

buddy, I am starting to think any orthodox church that honours Jesus is ok

They all honor Jesus brother. The basic principles Jesus taught concerning Salvation are the foundation principles in the Orthodox church.

This resource was posted long ago in these discussions concerning the practice in the Orthodox Christian church.

5 hours ago, other one said:

that's kind of backward thinking considering allergy shots I'm taking.

However I know that it's that way with Latex also....    I'm so allergic to latex now that not even my dentist can use latex gloves without my lips and tongue swelling up.  I wore them many hours a day for a couple of decades before I went over the edge with it.

It is backward because it is in error. If the individual takes penicillin when they have no need of it their immune system builds a resistance to the properties in Penicillin. Penicillin with then be ineffective because they body having been inundated with Penicillin has had the immune system grow to repel the properties in Penicillin because the body having been over exposed to Penicillin, the immune system had dispatched phagocytes and often enough lymphocytes to copy the properties of the invading organism, in this case Penicillin, and built an immunity barrier to its effects.

This is something that happens with any foreign element introduced into the organic environment of the human organism. It's why regular prescriptions for what ails have to be changed over to something else, or a prescription is reformulated after years. Because the body immune system builds resistance to that which it identifies as threatening to the homeostasis of the individual.