fixerupper

9 hours ago, Davida said:

I know this too Brother!  I see it coming. I totally agree with you & have the battle scars to prove it.  We STAND  with the MOST High GOD who HAS a NAME with the Lord JESUS CHRIST and AGAINST this --FALSE All inclusive New Gospel.  It is total WICKEDNESS & Deception that is-Posing as Love & peace.

Do you have it in you to show me where you find the prophecy of this all inclusive new gospel?  Canyou at least do that!

9 hours ago, Davida said:

I can tell you , that you never ever believed like I do .   LOL!  ....there is Lot of words there in your post  but I'm sure I don't agree with any of it .

You know nothing about me.  You're just an internet personality...just like me!  You have no idea where I've been.  You have no idea of my devotion.  

You may have some idea that I'm a disgruntled Christian who is sick of other Christians condemning me AND VERY SICK OF CHRISTIANS WHO ATTRIBUTE ALL OF THE END-TIME EVILS TO CHRISTIANS AND THE CHURCH.  I'M FLIPPING OVER YOUR MILLIONAIRE PRE=TRIB TABLES, AND YOUR CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN APOSTASY BALONY.

9 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

How about the sad fact that a good majority of Christians are biblically illiterate, many approve of "gay marriage", and do not take Scripture at face value.

BTW: I said nothing to you, yet you decided to take up an attitude with me. Is that how you demonstrate how well you keep the commands of Christ and demonstrate a "good witness"?

 

If you call this an attitude you need to grow up real fast...

I said,

Quote

 

9 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

How about the sad fact that a good majority of Christians are biblically illiterate, many approve of "gay marriage", and do not take Scripture at face value.

BTW: I said nothing to you, yet you decided to take up an attitude with me. Is that how you demonstrate how well you keep the commands of Christ and demonstrate a "good witness"?

 

"So I have an attitude for saying...

So have at it!  Show me how apostasy is,..."

____________________________________________________________________

Get real.  Learn something.  And if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

How do you like that attitude!

9 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I mean everyone let us ponder that .  Even JESUS said but in time of temptation some FALL AWAY

unbelievers don't fall away from one they never KNEW...............only those WHO KNEW HIM CAN FALL AWAY.

IT IS THE MASS OF MANY that came and fell away.  the FALLING AWAY .  FALLING AWAY.............and OUR LORD USED

the same term FALL AWAY when he was specifically talking about some that had come , yet FALL AWAY..............IT IS A DELUSIONAL CHURCH

and pard.........................ITS HAPPENING , I mean ITS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW

The words FALL AWAY in Luke 18:13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 

Is the word aphistēmi which is also interpreted 'draw away.

The words FALL AWAY in Hebrews 6:6 

9 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Its real easy .   Does the world KNOW JESUS................UNBELIEVERS cant FALL AWAY..................BELIEVERS DO THOUGH.

the FALLING AWAY IS THE CHURCH FALLING AWAY FROM JESUS AND SOUND DOCTRINE.

 

if interpreting the Word of God is that easy about "the falling away," you should be able to show me WHERE... THE CHURCH FALLING AWAY FROM JESUS AND SOUND DOCTRINE," is found in 2 Thes 2!"  I know that's what you've been taught and, while you're at it, explain to me why such evil stuff would be attributed to THE CHURCH!

2  Thessalonians 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3a  Let no man deceive you by any means:  3b for that day shall not come, 3c except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13  But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

45 minutes ago, Wanda01 said:

Ordinarily, I would look up each Scripture before posting, but as it is late and I have a family to ready for the close of another day, I submit the following:

Regarding the falling away/apostasy.....

Question: "Will there be a great apostasy / falling away during the end times?"

Answer: The Bible indicates that there will be a great apostasy during the end times. The “great apostasy” is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The KJV calls it the “falling away,” while the NIV and ESV call it “the rebellion.” And that’s what an apostasy is: a rebellion, an abandonment of the truth. The end times will include a wholesale rejection of God’s revelation, a further “falling away” of an already fallen world.

And of course, it goes on........

https://www.gotquestions.org/great-apostasy.html

The question posed on 'Gotquestions is...

Quote

"Will there be a great apostasy / falling away during the end times?"

I agree it does happen during the end times.  My contention is just "what it is, and what it is not."

Quote

Answer: The Bible indicates that there will be a great apostasy during the end times. The “great apostasy” is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The KJV calls it the “falling away,” while the NIV and ESV call it “the rebellion.”

And I agree with that.  Rebellion is actually a better word than 'falling away.'

Quote

And that’s what an apostasy is: a rebellion, an abandonment of the truth. The end times will include a wholesale rejection of God’s revelation, a further “falling away” of an already fallen world.

Realize that Gotquestions isn't always right.  They never answer my questions!

Now look at what they say and notice the disconnect.  First he says, "it's a rebellion.  Then he says again, "And that’s what an apostasy is: a rebellion,"

But then says, "an abandonment of the truth!"

Now wait a minute.  A rebellion isn't really an abandonment of truth.  So lets check that out.

This is the web definition of apostasy.  Notice how the other religions define apostasy similarly.  It's only the Christian definition that's different.

Apostasy - (noun) 
1. The act of abandoning a party or cause.
2. The state of having rejected your religious beliefs, political party, cause or sports team in favor of opposing beliefs, causes or teams.
3. A defection, renunciation, disaffiliation, abandonment or revolt from a previous association.
4. (Islamic definition) Rejection in word or deed of one's former religion.
5. (Christian definition) To fall away from the truth.

My point?  The christian definition is wrong.  That's not what apostasy is.

The ONLY places we can go to understand 'apostasy' is 2 Thes. 2 and Acts 21 because that's the only two places the word is used in the NT.

This word apostasy is unique since this is the only place it's translated 'falling away,' and actually, a poor translation of the word.  It comes from a word meaning a 'divorce' or to defect and to abandon something.  The only other place it's used is in Acts 21:21 where it's translated forsake.  There really isn't any other place we can go in the bible to understand it.  

Every other religion views apostasy as abandoning their former political or religious affiliation and accepting another, or nothing at all. It's a revolt and rebellion and a total abandonment. NOT of truth, but of anything. A Christian can not remain a Christian or stay in a Church and be an apostate according to the correct definition of the word. 

So not to make this post so long, let me show you why apostasy has nothing to do with the church.  It really isn't that difficult to see!

Notice the text below, from the word 'except' in verse 3c, to the end of verse 12, the church is not implied in any way because the words "but we" in verse 13 prove that Christians (the church) is not part of the apostasy!

The word 'but' is a conjunction that shows distinction and opposition to a previous statement.   It opposes persons to persons or things previously mentioned or thought of.  The distinction in this passage is between the followers of Christ as opposed to the man of sin and his followers.  The church is not implied whatsoever.

2  Thessalonians 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3a  Let no man deceive you by any means:  3b for that day shall not come, 3c except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13  But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

I use to believe what you do.  That is up to the time I did my own homework on the subject.  WIKI actually has it right, most Christians have it wrong.

WIKI says...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Apostasy (Greek απο, apo, "away, apart", στασις, stasis, "standing") is the formal renunciation of one's religion.

I don't like using WIKI but...

Notice that every one of the following 'apostates' abandoned one thing and went to another.  And it applies to both religion and politics.

Noted apostates
This is a list of notable persons that have followed a religion and then publicly abandoned or publicly criticized it and attracted notable attention by this defection, or had a notable influence on society with their defection; or if the person has been notably been referred to as an apostate by other groups or people regardless whether the person accepts this label or not.

Ambedkar an ex-Hindu who became a Buddhist 
Karen Armstrong ex-Roman Catholic nun who became an atheist 
Julian the Apostate ex-Christian and Roman emperor
Aurelius Augustine (Augustine of Hippo) Former adherent of Manicheism who converted to Christianity and criticized Manicheism in his book called Confessions, though generally not labelled as an apostate because the term is originally used for people who leave Christianity, not for people who convert to it 
Marjoe Gortner ex-Christian 
Ayaan Hirsi Ali ex-Muslim 
Maria Monk Sometimes considered an apostate, though little evidence exists that she ever belonged to the religion she supposedly fled 
Taslima Nasrin born in a Muslim family who became an atheist 
Friedrich Nietzsche grew up in a Lutheran family and became a confirmed Christian in his teens but later became a staunch atheist 
Salman Rushdie Accused of being an apostate of Islam by Ruhollah Khomeini due to the publication of his book The Satanic Verses
Baruch Spinoza excommunicated from the Jewish community 
Ibn Warraq ex-Muslim

Entire kingdoms have gone into apostasy when it's ruler or king called for one and it was always to change the "national religion." I believe it was Nero who called for an apostasy FROM Judaism TO Hellenism.

3 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

I agree as well.

So have at it!  Show me how apostasy is,

"The heretics & enemies of Christ inside the church are revealing themselves. The great falling away is happening."

13 minutes ago, Wanda01 said:

And I will continue to tell you that I disagree. I stand by every verse I have quoted, in addition to every comment I have made. 

I'll tell you the same thing.

Here's the 'falling away' passage.  Show me where you find a church or christians in it.  

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

⁴ Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

⁵ Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

⁶ And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

⁷ For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

⁸ And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

⁹ Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

¹⁰ And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

¹¹ And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

¹² That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

______________________________________________________________________________

Romans 16:17-18 ", Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

Let's not forget Ephesians 4:11-16 (paying close attention to verse 14!) "

¹¹ And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

¹² For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

¹³ Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

¹⁴ That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

¹⁵ But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

¹⁶ From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

You quote...

Romans 16:17-18 ", Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

Heresy isn't apostasy.  Being lukewarm or undevoted isn't apostasy.  In full context this passage is actually saying that certain false teachers are allowed to stay in the church because they were NOT teaching damanble heresies but the congregation was told to avoid them.  

You quote...

Quote

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

That's not apostasy either.  I can prove that it isn't, I'd like you to prove it is!

11 hours ago, Davida said:

I agree Dennis1209, the Bible prophecy is unfolding before our eyes and all the power players are taking their places. The heretics & enemies of Christ inside the church are revealing themselves. The great falling away is happening.

Here's the 'falling away' passage.  Show me where you find a heretical church in it...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

⁴ Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

⁵ Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

⁶ And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

⁷ For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

⁸ And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

⁹ Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

¹⁰ And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

¹¹ And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

¹² That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Quote

 

Amen.   Many wolves in sheeps clothing their are today and many hearts being deceived within the mass of churches.

Allah and the false muslim religion , false as it is............is NOT the religion that is lulling many to sleep, nor is it the religion

that will unite the world for this false peace.  

 

That's where you're going wrong.  Show me where this, "united world of false peace' is found in the bible?  There's no such thing coming!

Hey, you really have this all figured out huh?

2 hours ago, Wanda01 said:

It's really a matter of reading in whole, what I have said thus far, and understanding what it means.

TRUE Christians will not be deceived. But churches are not filled with only TRUE Christians. To believe so is naive.

Not everyone who goes to church is a real Christian. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing lurking about, seeking whom they may devour. Matthew 7:15.

The Word tells us how we can know when we are in the presence of a wolf:

Romans 16:17-18 ", Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

Let's not forget Ephesians 4:11-16 (paying close attention to verse 14!) "

¹¹ And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

¹² For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

¹³ Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

¹⁴ That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

¹⁵ But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

¹⁶ From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

As I have said above, not everyone who goes to church is a Christian. I'll expand more on that. Not everyone who goes to church, joins a Christian forum, reads Bible, celebrates Christian holidays...is necessarily a Christian. 

How do we know? By their fruits. Look at their motivation. Are they attempting to build up or tear down, the Body?

Matthew 13:24-30

Galatians 5:19-26

A true Christian has called upon and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. They have turned away from trusting in their own efforts to save them and trust in Jesus Christ alone and they are producing fruit for the Kingdom. They do not work to save themselves nor are they men-pleasers. They live lives crucified in Christ by their faith in Him.

 

 

*quotes from KJV

What I'm telling you is that NONE of the verses you've quoted, none of the comments you've made, are associated with apostasy or the 'falling away.'

Quote

How about a correct viewpoint ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE. God was not just wasting time causing prophets to write.

I KNOW.  AND THE VIEWPOINT OF CHRISTIANITY'S GREATEST PROPHET JESUS CHRIST SAID,
Immediately after the tribulation of those days....then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:....and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.....And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Quote

His purpose was for us to KNOW. 

AND JESUS WORDS AREN'T CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU TO KNOW?  If you believe that, "His purpose was for us to KNOW.," then you should also believe that Jesus said AFTER THE TRIBULATION his elect is gathered...You should also believe that the word 'elect' is used to indicate CHRISTIANS in the NT and NOT ONCE is it used to indicate Jews, IF your purpose is for you to know the Word of God.
ELECT...
picked out, chosen
chosen by God,
to obtain salvation through Christ
Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians.

Quote

What was the first point Jesus made in answering the questions the disciples asked about the end? Take heed that no man deceive you.

And you haven't paid attention and you've been deceived!  Jesus says Christians, you say Jews!  Jesus says immediately after the tribulation, you say before!

Quote

Yet we have different opinions on almost every end time verse. The truth then is, SOMEONE is deceived. 

Yes.  Someone is deceived.  Someone is deceived into perverting the words of Jesus to uphold the pipe dream of a deceitful doctrine!

Quote

OF COURSE you don't think it is you. But when the time comes, we will all know.

Oh we know it's you who is deceived.  You're the only ones going against the words of Jesus.

You will never know when your time comes.  To a pre-tribber, if there's no rapture, there's no tribulation and no false prophet or man of sin.  The big question is, "how long will pre-tribbers remain in denial when the world goes bad and is launched into tribulation and you're all still here? 
A time is coming soon where the world as we know it will never be the same. 

6 hours ago, Wanda01 said:

I would obviously disagree, at least in part.

True Christians, rather than those who just pay lip service, know and love the truth, rather than following after strange doctrines and practices.

I stand by my original reply.

Tell me then, where do you come up with Christians in THIS "strong delusion"...

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Christians are not part of the apostasy of 2 Thes. 2, so they are not paRt of "strong delusion."

The reason Christianity has the wrong perception of APOSTASY IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE WRONG DEFINITION OF IT. 

On 6/27/2017 at 9:33 AM, OakWood said:

Protestantism was NOT started by a disgruntled Augustinian monk. Protestantism was started by lots of different people who once they had read the Bible for themselves discovered the heresies found in Catholic doctrine.

We had the Albigensians, John Wycliffe, the Hugenots, Jan Huss, William Tyndale all who came before Luther. Then there was John Calvin and John Knox. All these are different people from different backgrounds  and different times in history and they had discovered for themselves how Catholicism had corrupted the word of God.

What is different about Luther is that his reformation was successful and this was due in no small part due to the invention of the printing press. Roman Catholics were burning bibles because they didn't want people to discover the truth for themselves. Fancy that, eh? A so-called Christian organisation wilfully destroying the word of God!

But in Luther's time they couldn't burn the bibles fast enough thanks to the Guttenberg press which managed to churn out 3,000 copies a day. The Pope knew the game was up, the cat was out of the bag...... there was no going back.

Protestant's get very little right about anything, especially the Catholic Church.  They are too busy badfmouthing the Popes when Wycliffe, Tyndale, and especiall CALVIN were also corrupted.  I'm not a Catholic, but I will never call myself a Protestant as they are the most offensive of people.

After the 14th century when English finally became the popular language of England, vernacular Bibles were used as vehicles for heretical propaganda. John Wycliffe, a dissentient priest, translated the Bible into English. Unfortunately his secretary, John Purvey, included a heretical prologue, as noted by St. Thomas More. Later William Tyndale translated the Bible into English complete with prologue and footnotes condemning Church doctrines and teachings. [2] St. Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea. Even King Henry VIII in 1531 condemned the Tyndale Bible as a corruption of Scripture. In the words of King Henry's advisors: "the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people, and not be suffered to go abroad among his subjects." [4] As food for thought, if the Wycliffe or Tyndale Bibles were so good, why do Protestants today not use them as they do the King James Bible?

One action that Catholic Christians pursued to stop this propaganda was to burn these books. Does this action make the Church anti-Bible? No. If it did, then the Protestants of this period were also anti-Bible. John Calvin, the main Protestant Reformer, in 1522, had as many copies as could be found of the Servetus Bible burned, since Calvin did not approve of it. Later Calvin had Michael Servetus himself burned at the stake for being a Unitarian. [5] In those days it was common practice on both sides to burn unapproved books. Finally it is one matter to destroy the real thing and another to destroy a counterfeit.

The Church did not oppose faithful vernacular translations but heretical additions and distortions to the Bible. The Church prohibited these corrupt Bibles in order to preserve the integrity of Holy Scripture. This action was necessary if the Church is to preserve the truth of Christ's Gospel. As St. Peter in his Epistle (in the Bible) warns us, the ignorant and unstable can distort the Scriptures to their own destruction [2 Peter 3:16; see front panel].
Should good Christian parents allow their children to read a Bible with anti-Christian propaganda or profanity in the footnotes? I certainly would not. Finally if the Catholic Church truly wanted to destroy the Bible, she had ample opportunity to do so for 1500 years.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/apologetics/controversies/bible-burning-and-other-allegations/

I'm a disgruntled Christian ready to cannthe entire religion of Christianity.  the religion if FULL of evil!

On 6/26/2017 at 0:27 PM, OakWood said:

I agree. We all know that there will be a falling away. Many churches have already fallen.

I keep telling you guys that "the falling away" has nothing to do with Church!  I know people love to demonize their own form of Christianity, but the APOSTASY has ZERO connection to Christians or the Church.

People are obsessed with Rome and the Popes, it's a Protestant thing.  There's no reason to be because Rome and the Popes have NO prophetic significance.

7 hours ago, Wanda01 said:

It is examples like this all inclusive, going along to get along nonsense, that has driven me from mainstream churches. It is happening all over, from the smallest, rural churches with few members, to the larger megachurches with thousands of members. 

A strong delusion has taken over. 2 Thessalonians 2:11

That's NOT what strong delusion is!  It has NOTHING to do with Christians or the church.

6 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Correct but The Lord walked with Paul and tsught him as he confonted the Jews for the first part of his ministry. Paul didnt start his ministry to gentiles till later and Peter had already ushered Gentiles into the kingdom in Jerusalem. ephesians was written after Pauls mission had changed to witness to kings as prophecied by the Lord to his Disciple Annine? (i forget his name).  Israelites were the first leg of Pauls  ministry. verified in acts and galations, then He started a ministry to the gentiles, the second part of his ministry as prophecied and finnaly sent to witness to kings as prophicied. 

I agree with your reply.  Peter preached to the gentiles before Paul, and Paul's mission was directed more toward Israel.  The reason for this blunder by Marilyn is that Protestant's don't like to consider Peter as the originator of the church in Rome.  It's just another fabrication Marilyn has fallen for to support something false.

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So fixerupper,

I`ll leave you to your own thoughts.

Marilyn.

You and Lamad have the nerve to build your case up by telling people if we disagree with you, we disagree with God, Jesus, or the holy spirit, and deem them as liars.  Lamad also builds himself up by saying the rapture is complicated he has the annointing of the spirit, and that's why he's able to figure this complicated stuff out, and that he's right.

I could prophesy that the earth is a sphere and that there's going to be darkness tonight.  I could also prophesy that pre-trib is an outright lie and Marilyn and Lamad has fallen for the lie!

You guys build yourselves up claiming you're right because you guys "have the spirit."  All I'm doing is affirming/prophesying that the Words of Jesus are right!  The gathering happens AFTER THE TRIBULATION, pre-trib is a deceiful lie, and Marilyn and Lamad are wrong! And I have no problem prophesying it!

Now.  If you have the nerve, go ahead and prophesy pre-trib is true!  Go ahead and tell us all again that you have the spirit, you're right, and how us post-tribbers make God, Jesus, the prophets, and the holy spirit, LIARS!

May the Lord cut off all flattering lips, the tongue that makes great boasts.

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

That to me says we are in the Body of Christ together, not grafted in to Israel. Israel was not the Body of Christ that we should be grafted into, but together jews and Gentiles make up the Body of Christ.

BTW no need to be rude, bro. (has.....clouded...etc)

I don't care if you perceive me as being rude or hostile.  I've been condemned by people on the forum for disagreeing with them.

I don't condemn anybody, but I do know when something isa  blatant perversion of scripture.  I know it's obvious when something is being, "made up, added to, or fabricated.  The arguments are endless in pre-trib because the contradictions, fabrications, and twisting of scripture is endless. I know pre-trib is false, and I prophesy it.  

I say pre-trib is a spirit of deception making you believe in something that will never come to pass.  And I prophesy it.

Pre-trib is a lie.  And I prophesy it.  And I'm not even a Pntecostal!

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The harlot church is hungry.  what does one who desires riches and power want when they get it...........ONLY MORE.

There's no such thing as a harlot church in the NT.  

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I have warned out for years against this interfaith.  THIS RELIGION is the RELIGOIN that will become LAW.

Well you've been warning people for nothing.  ONE church does a bad interfaith thing and now this is a religion that will become law.  The LAWS of the LAWLESS ONES i.e. SHARIA LAW, (and changing of times and laws) comes only withing the limited 10/7 alliance of kings or nations IN THE MIDDLE-EAST.  

The religion of the beast does not have to become law because in Islam your politics is your religion, and your religion is your politics.   

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it will be made mandatory for all to worship its pantheism form for world peace.  It is truly all inclusive

It will?  How about not bowing to Allah in the anti-christ kingdom of the Arab world?  Think maybe that might OUCH!  Nothing 'all inclusive' about the religion of the beast.  And this, 'peace stuff' religion, some have described as a 'new age religion, is a pipe dream.  The only peace the man of sin will bring is a united Middle-East many places which are now in chaos, and the destruction of Israel.  None of it comes from the church, Rome, or inclusive religion.  Peaceful religions and peacefl leaders don't behead people.

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it welcomes all , even gays and transgenders with nO need for repentance.    This is why we see even muslim mosques embracing gays now.

Where do you find an all inclusive end-time church becoming the religion of the two horned beast?"
Too bad NO church will accept the Islamic beast situated in the Middle-East.  They are all about gone now anyway!

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AN ALL INCLUSIVE ALL FALSE LOVE RELIGOIN has been born.............and its leading all to the coming god king who by PEACE shall destroy many.

Too many you tube videos.  Too many prophecy experts filling your brain.

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Rome controls it all .   She is the one pushing all denominations to unite as ONE for world peace

I'll ask you just like I asked hundreds of people and NOT ONE person has ever quoted...
"ONE verse of prophecy implicating Rome as the any one of the end-time beast."

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SHE TOO is getting all world reglions to unite for world peace.......she HUNGERS FOR IT ALL NOW

Sure she is.  I've been hearing that for decades! What in the world makes you think the world's religions will ever unite for world peace?  And, where is that found in scripture?

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Rome knows politicans and the world very , very well.  She knows govts , leaders will not settle for non comformity to the political goal of world peace

Rome is powerless to do what you claim.  Rome doesn't have the worldwide political influence you guys blow it all up to be.

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but in league with satan we have the POLITCIAL ARENA with heavy PC along with masses of Chruches , THE RELIGION NEEDED.........

Yep!  You've fallen for it!

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oh the TWO WORK AS ONE.    Chaos increases.....................fear increases and soon the world peace that political leaders

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and RELIGOUS ONES, will lead the world as ONE RIGHT to the dark king and kings who will have the solution , the answer to all the worlds ills.

I've heard it all before and it's all bogus.  ONE MAN will have the solution and all the world's religions and governments will say, "sure, you can have our country and become our religious political leader." 

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And the world will unite , the religions will unite , in the worlds largest ecumenical all inclusive movment .   PEACE , WORLD PEACE

Balony!  What I want to see is where you come up with that.

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and IF  the people are deiceved now .............HOW WILL THEY KNOW WHEN THE HEAD OF ALL EVIL STANDS

You're right in the middle of the deception.

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they will simply see this king and kings and men of LOVE ,  men of unity , of peace and all the solutions they offer the world to have world peace

The man of sin will not deliver world peace because he's not in charge of the entire world!

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the masses will just love  it up.    And then the TEETH WILL COME OUT...................for its love , its unity , its peace , its tolerance

You've been indoctrinated.  There's no verse of scripture that implies such a thing.

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WAS ALWAYS HYPOCRISY FOR ALL OUT TOTAL POWER..................to gain power over the minds and masses of the world.

Never gonna happen! Another pipe dream.

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THEN in the name of love, tolerance , unity , freedom , liberty  peace.............will millions upon millions upon millions be killed as haters.

You've been deceived.  How and why is any of that going to happen.

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SUCH A STRONG DELUSOIN has began under the guise of  honoring this strange god of all inclusivity all as one mindset.

Strong delusion has zero to do with Christians and the church.  The 'strange god' is ALLAH!

21 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi fixerupper,

So where does it say we are grafted into Israel, bro?

Marilyn.

You don't understand verse 6?  Or has pre-trib clouded your understanding of it?

Verse 6...That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective wor

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Even thou I agree with your post tribulation view why the hostility? We can have different views on this and still be one in unity.

I have a hatred for pretribulationism.  The hostility comes from decades of deceptive teachings by hundreds of prominent pre-trib prophecy experts who have made millions writing books and making videos.  It comes from THEM NOT admitting a big mistake and many of them know it!  How can these millionaires admit they've been wrong when pre-trib has made them millionaires?  I hate pre-trib because it takes a pristine act of God's kindness and turns it into a terror attack!

John Hagee was preaching pre-trib one day with a prop behind him showing planes, trains, busses, and automobiles crashing as the spirits of believers were ascending toward heaven.  Now why would God kill innocent people simply to remove believers from being killed in the tribulation?  Kind of counterproductive isn't it?

One girl I know left church becasue they were teaching pre-trib often and she didn't want to be gone while here teenage children were left behind so she dumped Jesus Christ for the sake of her children.

Pre-trib is disgusting because of the extreme level of fabrication, resulting contradictions, and more fabrication to counter those contradctions.  that's why the illustrious LAMAD says the gathering is complicated and only a spirit filled believer like himself can understand it.

I'm sick of pre-trib.  It causes people to become complacent about preoparing for tribulation.  And then, if there is no rapture, that means we are NOT in tribulation.  

Pre-trib.  It's the most deceitful and widely held false doctrine that has ever entered the Church.

Probably the biggest gripe I have with pre-trib is the people who believe it.  They are more true to the doctrine than they are obtaining truth.

I am just blown away at the poor interpretational skills of Christians today.

So yes I have a hostility toward pre-trib.  

On 6/5/2017 at 4:25 AM, firestormx said:

"The people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary" (Daniel 9:26).

Above is a line from the verse in Daniel 9:26. Below is a link to a VERY long article. My question is If anyone knows of anything to refute the information on the page in the link. I have always believed that the verse above ( that line especially ) is talking about those who are the Anti-Christs people and therefore an indication of where the Anti-Christ will rise up from. I was hoping someone could take the time to read the article in full ( it's very long I know, sorry) and discuss anything to confirm or deny this position and the " facts " that they put forth. I can find nothing to refute what they are saying. Looking for someone to see if there is something wrong with the facts they present about the makeup of the people who destroyed the temple in 70 AD that I missed. I invite any and all discussion on this ( Anti-Christ and his people) just please read the article at the link first. 

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/peopleofprince.html

 

Thank you and God bless

Firestormx

Well what do you know I agree with someone on the forum.  The links said...

"And so after examining a sampling of evidence from both ancient historians as well as the most cutting-edge modern scholarship to date, we may very confidently conclude that the “Roman” soldiers in the Eastern provinces that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple were in fact Eastern peoples -- the inhabitants of Asia Minor, Syria, Arabia, and Egypt. Again, they were the ancestors of the modern day inhabitants of the Middle East. When we look to the prophecy of Daniel 9:26, we can certainly understand how a hasty or perfunctory reading of this prophecy would lead one to conclude that the “peoples” were in fact Romans, but having now done proper due diligence, completed our homework, and examined the evidence, it is clear that the reality is quite different from what has been commonly and popularly understood."

It just stikes me odd that the resurrection of the dead and gathering would come at the sound of a Jewish trumpet, a religion that denies the Christ anyway.

Learn something about trumpets Lamad...

Trump, Trumpet:  

is used

(1) of the natural instrument, 1Cr 14:8;

(2) of the supernatural accompaniment of Divine interpositions,

(a) at Sinai, Hbr 12:19;

(b) of the acts of angels at the Second Advent of Christ, Mat 24:31;

(c) of their acts in the period of Divine judgments preceding this, Rev 8:2, 6, 13; 9:14;

(d) of a summons to John to the presence of God, Rev 1:10; 4:1;

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(e) of the act of the Lord in raising from the dead the saints who have fallen asleep and changing the bodies of those who are living, at the Rapture of all to meet Him in the air, 1Cr 15:52, where "the last trump" is a military allusion, familiar to Greek readers, and has no connection with the series in Rev 8:6 to 11:15; there is a possible allusion to Num 10:2-6, with reference to the same event, 1Th 4:16, "the (lit., a) trump of God" (the absence of the article suggests the meaning "a trumpet such as is used in God's service").

There are seven trumpets in Revelation.  All others are things that sound "as or like a trumpet."

Pre-trib.  Full of complications.  Full of fabrications.  Full of contradictions.  And they don't care.  They prefer to stay true to the false deceitful teaching than to the teachings of Jesus...

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.   And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.  And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.  And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.  And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.  And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.  And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

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(Matt. 13:30, 39. Mathew 24:31.)

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?   But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.