OldCoot

Had a rough go yesterday.  coughing up blood and could not hold anything down, nutrition or water.  Much better today.   Got some Milk of Magnesia down to coat things and actually have been able to drink a little chocolate milk.  Feel better thanks to you guy's prayers and support.  Thanks so very much!!!

Cliff

3 hours ago, Alive said:

Praise the Lord for His perfect faithfulness, brother. Your words are inspiring and comforting.

Still praying for God's intervention and yet we have witnessed the following in your testimony, brother Cliff.

Psa. 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD

Is the death of His saints.

Thanks so much.  With so many in my corner, advocating for me with the Lord, I will be totally shocked if I am not granted a healing!    I am so thankful!

Cliff

Just wanted to touch base back in here.  I am weaker for sure, so things are winding down.   But I have been so richly blessed by having so many friends and family surrounding me, providing support, and praying.   My house has been filled with many every day and evening with wonderful friends and family.  I am so blessed of the Lord.

I hesitate saying this, as it could be construed the wrong way by some, but this process of dying has been a wonderful experience that I would not trade in for anything.     The closeness I have felt to the Lord is beyond words.  

I pray for all of my brothers and sisters in the Lord.   Stand fast.  Be strong.  Time is so short so please spread the Gospel of Hope thru Messiah Yeshua (Jesus).   Love one another.  Support and pray for one another.   Put on the full Armor of God. 

Blessings to all of you.   I look forward to seeing you all one day.  I am confident that even though we do not personally know each other here now, the Lord will present a way for us to know each other in the Kingdom.   

I still pray, as many of my friends and family are doing so, for a miracle of healing.   Not for my self, but based on the depth of my condition there would be absolutely no doubt that it would be a true miracle of the Lord.   It would be purely praise and honor of His power and Glory and bring honor to His Name.    And I would so love to shout it from the roof tops, the praise and glory of the King!

Take care, y'all.   I am thinking and praying for you guys.

Cliff

On 2/18/2020 at 9:52 PM, Da Puppers said:

I am going to leave the exegeses to you since you are the one making the claim that the Son was the recipient of God's wrath.   

Be Blessed 

I would, but I am not really in shape to tackle many of these discussions in depth any longer.  Probably why I was not quick to respond.   I was diagnosed last friday with Esophageal cancer.   it is a rather virulent form.   Was not going to see the Oncologist till next Monday,  but I had to go to ER today.   I am now on home hospice care with about 2 weeks to live.  No treatment, no surgery available.   Only a miracle of the Lord can happen now.  

So looks like we will likely have to continue the discussion in the kingdom.   

Thanks so much guys.  Been off of here for a few days.  Here is an update....

This cancer is a fast mover and hard hitter.   I am now on hospice care at home.   There is no surgery, no treatment.   Doctor gave me a couple of weeks left.  Just trying to help Mischelle get things in order.  

Looking forward in the kingdom to giving all of you a great big hug.   Will try to get back on when I can.  

Do me a great big favor.....   all of you watch out for each other and care for each other.  

Love you guys!   You are the best!

Cliff

2 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Isa 53:10 KJV Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Psa 22:24 KJV For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Try the entire chapters of each

26 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

I don't find the cross to be the wrath of God.   

Rom 1:18 KJV For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Act 4:12 KJV Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Mat 26:53-54     Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Read Isaiah 53 and Psalms 22 and get back with us.  Try looking at the other 3/4 of the Bible instead of trying to establish doctrine from only the NT.  Act like a Berean.

if one does not understand that it was the wrath of the Father poured out on the Son for our sin, they do not understand the Gospel.

Some that have a problem with the pre-70th week removal seem fixated on separating out that the entire week is not God’s wrath.

Let’s try looking at this another way.   Was not the wrath of the Father poured out on the Son when He was crucified?  I seem to get that idea when I read Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, etc.

But who was it that beat Him so bad that all His bones were out of joint?   Who was it that turned Him into hamburger with all the whippings?   Who was it that nailed Him to that cross?   Well it sure wasn’t God personally.  

So it is not all extreme to suggest all the stuff going on throughout the 7 year period is in fact the wrath of God upon the world.

But why would that wrath also come upon those saints of that time?  Well, since the redeemed are caught up before the 7 years started, those saints are not saints when things get cranked up.  It would seem the removal and the calamities coming upon the earth will shake them out of their stupor 

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I have seen that, I like his YOUTUBE Video, proving God in 5 minutes. I don't buy it, I just don't get why people think God has to change the Laws of Nature {which He created} to hurry up creation when God lives outside of time, thus hes everywhere at once, in the past, present and future. 

There is much more proof of an Old Universe/Earth than just light. 

God would have to change the Laws of Nature just to get the earth to cool off in 6000 years, it takes much longer than that. God doesn't need to hurry anything up. They can't seem to understand the bible is nuanced in many ways. We have to use belief co-mingled with logic. That same process tells us why the Jews had to bury their dung, God knew about microscopic germs, men learned about them in the 1800's or so, but now we know why, even though they probably didn't understand it back then. 

God bless brother, I will be praying for you. God is our healer.....

Thanks for the prayers, Bro!

I have generally been in the so-called "gap" theory camp when it comes to Genesis.   Specifically regarding Genesis 1:2 where the text should more literally read... "and the earth BECAME without form and void".   Not a gap theory of an idea that the days of creation were epochs or ages.   Just that there was a created earth that, for some reason, became corrupted so that the Lord had to rebuild it.  And the entire universe was affected at the same time.  And the time interval between the first letter of Genesis 1:1 and the earth becoming void in Genesis 1:2 is up for grabs with nothing substantive we can lay  hands on to affirm a particular time frame.

I have been of the persuasion that there was some cataclysmic event that took the earth from its original created state.   Be that the angelic rebellion led by Satan or some other event.   There seems to be hints of this in other parts of scripture.  Nothing definitive, but hints.  Evidently the Lord did not feel it important enough for us to focus and spend excessive amounts of time on.

The six days of creation commonly referred to are susequent to that cataclysmic event.  

I don't make it a major point to argue about, but I do believe that given the dynamic dimensionality of the known universe, and that the creator is several dimensions beyond that, we are peering into history with a 4 dimensional mindset and trying to understand and explain something that we have such a myopic view of.  

All we can do is trust.   

7 minutes ago, marvelloustime said:

@OldCoot

Sorry to hear your news. I am praying for you and Michelle.

May the Lord’s peace be with you both during this hard time and I pray for your healing.

Please give Michelle a hug for me as well. I can well imagine how utterly devastated she is. I have experience of a doctor telling me a couple of years ago that my husband was going to die and I was in pieces. Praise the Lord the doctor’s prediction turned out to be false.

Also, let’s remember that the Great Physician can heal anything as well. It may well not yet be your time to go Home, and the Lord may have a plan to glorify His name in your healing.

I will keep praying for the both of you.

Thank you so much.    I will give  Mischelle a hug.  She needs it!

Well it would seem that things are more in the Lord's court than I realized.    Was able to see the detailed results of the CT scan the Doc did.   Not only Esophageal Cancer, it seem entire Liver is affected as well as an adrenal gland and spleen.    Did some online research and prognosis is no more than 15% survivability in 5 years, with high probability of succumbing to this in one year.

Thing is, with Family like you guys and friends and family that are also petitioning the Lord, I am not feeling gloomy about this at all.  As a matter of fact, I feel like it is a blessing in that I feel so much closer to the Lord and I am experiencing significant emotion in regards to the wonderful outpouring of support and prayers from you all.  Thanks so much guys and gals.   I am truly blessed!

My only major concern is for Mischelle.  

Now,  I would love to be healed... not for me... but for the Glory of the Lord, bringing honor and praise upon Him!   Since the prognosis is very poor, there would be no doubt if healing comes, it was at the hand of the Lord!

Thanks so much, David.   Graciously accepted and appreciated by Mischelle and I!

On 2/13/2020 at 3:16 PM, Salvation67 said:

Mid trib and post tribe theorys just don't make sense. I can't understand how people can believe our Lord and Savior would allow his His children to be persecuted and killed off in such a manner just because it happened in the OT, the number of people persecuted in the OT were many but in a larger scope, there were few per capita and nowhere near the number that will be persecuted and killed in the tribulation and those who are are those saved after the gathering (rapture) The arguments for mid and post trib just dont jive. Just my two cents on a million dollar topic.

I have a similar thought, but view it from a different perspective.

It is no so much of a protecting the Bride from persecution (as many anti pre 70th week folks like to claim), as persecution has been a part of our existence since Yeshua returned to the Father.   It is more of a matter of understanding what the purpose of the tribulation period is and who is the central focus of that time.

And it is the central focus of that time which is central to setting the stage for Yeshua to return to the earth to take over.

That central focus is Jacob/Israel.    It was because of their rejection of Him that caused Him to return to His place, and it will be their acknowledgement of that rejection, turning to Him, and petitioning for His return before He will.

Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

"their affliction" is the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah30) which correlates with the 70th week of Daniel 9.  

While indeed, the Lord will pour out His wrath on the world during that time, that is not the purpose of the period.   The purpose is to drive Jacob/Israel to the wall and giving them no alternative but to call out to the Lord and petition for Messiah to rescue them.   

And the bride of Messiah, the church, has no part in that purpose.   Therefore the Bride has no purpose in going thru that time.   The Bride is united with the Groom at the marriage chamber and the marriage consummated while the events that are to transpire on the earth run their course.  And the Bride returns with Messiah when He comes to take over and rule.    It is only Christian arrogance that seems to think that everything that happens in the plan's and purposes of God involves the Church and Believers.

19 minutes ago, The Light said:

Why do you think that the scripture says that Jesus must STAY in heaven? I don't see that anywhere. I see that heaven must receive Him, but he is already there. So if He is sent at the trump of God, then must heaven receive him?

Well, Yeshua did say that He would return to "His Place" due to the rejection of Him by Jacob/Israel, and would not return physically to the earth again until they acknowledge that offense and petition for His return.   So for Him to return to His place, He had to have left it, and therefore returned to the same place He left.  

Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

Where folks get a little messed up I think is equating the gathering unto the Lord as a literal physical returning of the Lord to the earth, which is literally the "second" coming.  So whether the removal is pre, mid, pre-wrath, whatever has nothing to do with the literal return of the Lord to the earth that will indeed occur.

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It means a PERIOD OF TIME or an EPOCH. It most certainly does. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old, not 6000 years old.

I will try to keep things less wordy in this regard in my post.  I have been fascinated by stuff that Australian Barry Setterfield has studied showing light speed has changed (slowed) over the millennia.  So while the distances we see in the Universe as indeed actual in linear terms, the ages being represented in common scientific circles is flawed.    One of the problems one runs into when one puts most or all their eggs in the Lyell Uniformitarianism basket. 

Gerald Schroeder, Israeli physicist, did an interesting analysis.  If you take what science says is the age of the Universe, factor the mass of the universe, and one is standing on the edge of the universe the time that science says the age of the universe is 6 days using basic Einstein Relativity.

I tend to side with Barry Setterfield's work on light speed and such.   With current use of radiometric clocks, there is no discernible change in light speed, but there is a discernible change when one uses basic rotational movement based time measurement.    Either the earth is speeding up in rotation around the sun or light is slowing.  Radiometric clocks, based on atomic changes which affect light, would change in unison with light speed changes and there would be no discernible change in light speed.

I haven't seen where Barry lays down any specific Bishop Usher time line, but Barry does suggest that the universe is likely not more than 10-20,000 years old.   Light speed according to Barry has been slowing on an exponent squared curve.   If one extrapolates back based on the know light speed measurements that have been taken since the 1700's and follow the curve, Light would be twice as fast as today during the time Jesus was on the earth, and increase to where light was virtually instantaneous at the time we believe creation occurred.  Anyone who has done an exponent square curve graph in a math class would see the correlation.  

Just another thought in the mix.   

3 hours ago, lovethelord said:

OldCoot, continue to trust and have faith in the Lord. Remember, no matter the circumstances only the Lord knows the plans for you.

Father, I pray that you continue to strengthen your servant in his faith. Guide the doctors in selecting the best treatment to stop and heal his cancer in it's tracks. You are power and love and I know you love him and his wife. I ask that your Spirt surround both him and his wife and comfort them and ease any anxiety or worry about his care and treatment. I know that you are greater than cancer and that you are in control. Let your will be done in Jesus name. Amen.

Amen!   Praise to the Creator and Great Physician, Jesus!   Thank you LTL!   

How blessed I truly am for all you brothers and sisters!   I thank the Lord for all of you!  With such a wonderful family in Christ, I can't help but to have the wind at my back in fighting this!    I pray our Lord return the blessings unto all of you!

I was awoken by much physical discomfort from this situation, but having read these prayers and posts,  the discomfort and pain has lifted from me!    Praise to our Great God and Savior, Jesus!

6 hours ago, 1to3 said:

Sad to hear about this news, but optimistic that the all is not lost yet at this point.  So don't let the enemy win , don't despair, God loves you.We have our wonderful Savior and medicine has made so much wonderful progress. I will be keeping you in my prayers for healing from our wonderful and Merciful Savior Christ Jesus. You have people praying for you here who truly believe all is possible with our Lord and Savior. Isaiah 53 He bled for our sins and sickness to cover them and make us well. Amen! Amen! Amen! Now is the time to place all trust and hope in Him. He will see you through and past this. Praying for healing for you brother OldCoot through the sure and Holy and True Blood of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Cancer of the esophageal, leave  OldCoot now, be gone NOW in this child of Christ, in the mighty Name our our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus spirit esophageal cancer be gone and go now form OldCoot complete, you have no claim on this man, chroist Jesus has all claim on Him, so go NOW . Amen! Amen! Amen!

Thank you beyond words!  I am so grateful!  I can't help but shed tears of joy and gratitude!   Praise to the Lamb of God, our Lord and Savior!

10 minutes ago, angels4u said:

I'm so sorry to hear of your trouble and will be praying for you and your wife ...

Love in Christ,Angels

Thank you so much.  I will take it all gladly!     

I have to apologize to everyone here that I might have derailed the conversation by bringing this diagnosis of my health up.   But one thing that I am truly  inspired by is though some of us may disagree on various topics  like this one, and may appear to some that we are fighting like cats in a  sandbox, we can come together as family when it is time to do so.  

And that has to put a smile on the Lord's face!    I am so moved.   I look forward to meeting all of you one day!

Cliff

I am truly overwhelmed with gratitude.  Thanks so much guys.   I have been  blessed so much beyond anything I deserve in life, and you guys are really making it more so.  Mischelle and I truly am humbled and grateful.   This is the best example of what family truly means.   What the Lord decides is the outcome for me in this, it up to Him and He deserves all praise forever.   The Lord is truly Good!

Cliff

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

I am truly saddened to hear about your physical trial. I will be praying for you both. I'll ask my friend to help as well.

I don't know what I can do to help but if you have needs and it's in my power to give you'll have it.

Daniel

 

You are a great guy, Daniel.   That is much appreciated.  Like I have told others, while I cherish prayers and support for me, it is my wife Mischelle whom I truly fear for in this.  She is having the worse time in dealing with this.  please keep her in mind also.  I have been blessed beyond measure to have lived and experienced what I have in life.  The Lord is truly good.  

Thanks to everyone.   A true example of what family is supposed to mean.    Blessings to all of you!

Cliff

11 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

God bless you for your faith and faithfulness brother!  You will be in my prayers.

Thanks so much JoeMo!   Even with this, I am blessed beyond what anyone deserves.   Given the military and other situations in my life, I am surprised the Lord let me go this long.    My wife is who I truly worry about.  She has a far tougher time than I do dealing with news like this and she is taking it pretty hard.

Thanks again!

Cliff

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Everyone builds a house.  The contrast is between those who build their house by acting on Jesus' teachings and those who build ignore them. 

Thanks, LD.

But I think it is much simpler than you suggest.

The will of the Father is that we believe and trust on the Son.  While I would never argue that we are to follow His guidance and in doing so we are building up rewards.   Redemption is a once and for all event.  Else there is the risk of falling into a works righteousness gig.  And even worse, some can allow pride to intervene and exhibit a superiority schtick over other believers.  

So in fact, we may be just talking past each other to some extent.  If one sees the redemption as the base and rewards as being the house, then what you say would be correct.   If one sees the works are rewards as part of redemption, then not so much.

I like things a more simple.....

1 John 3:23 (NKJV) And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

So I guess the question still somewhat remains....  what is the house built of and what is it built on.    It seems the focus of the statement by Yeshua is the rock and not the house.   However from your comment I get the feeling you are focusing more on the house than what it is built on.

2 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Brother.....I'm very sorry to hear about your diagnoses. I will be praying for you.

Thanks, Joe.  Appreciated.   I do relish prayers for me, but especially for my wife, Mischelle.  She is having a very tough time accepting this.   I think she will have a tougher time thru this than I will, irregardless of outcome.

Cliff

Thanks so much, DR!