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OldCoot

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About OldCoot

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  • Birthday 01/12/1957

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  1. OldCoot

    The Four Resurrections

    I did forget to mention that there is some scriptural support that these Matthew 27:52-53 saints were taken to the Father. Yeshua was continually referencing the harvest in His discourses. Leviticus 23 gives us the prescription of the details surrounding the harvest. The first fruits of the harvest are waved as a group before the Father. Yeshua was the first fruit of the resurrection, but He was not the first fruits of the harvest. He is the High Priest, not a bundle or a sheaf. On the morning of His resurrection, when Mary saw Him, He told her not to cling/hold/handle Him since He had not yet ascended to the Father. As the High Priest, He would be required to remain ceremonially pure to present the first fruits of the harvest to the Father. We know He was handled and touched later that day, which had to have been after He had delivered those resurrected saints to the Father. Leviticus 23 teaches that there is the first fruits harvest, the main full harvest, and the remaining corners of the field which is the gleanings harvest that occurs over a longer period. These actually seem to correspond to the Matthew 27 resurrection and removal, the future major pre-trib resurrection and removal, and the prolonged resurrection and removal of the GT period saints during that period. One cannot be dogmatic about this match up, but it does exhibit a correlation.
  2. OldCoot

    The Four Resurrections

    the text doesn't say. Doesn't say they pulled a Lazarus either. But the guys who were early church writers who knew the Apostles and some of their students did write that those resurrected saints were taken to the Father by Yeshua. Dr. Norman Geisler did a major article on it a couple of years ago, complete with quotes from the early church writers on the topic. So since the text is silent, we can only rely on what they said.
  3. OldCoot

    The Four Resurrections

    Have to throw in one more. The resurrection of the saints of Matthew 27. Many of the early Church writers who knew the apostles or students of them claim that they were taken to the Father by Yeshua.
  4. OldCoot

    Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

    As opposed to working thru the times of the genealogy from Adam to Noah, as fascinating as that can be and the fun one can have trying to apply it to chronological events, I get a bigger kick out of how the meanings of the names in that genealogy, placed in a sentence, spell out the complete NT Gospel. It is those kind of treasures that are generally missed by many folks in scripture that I cherish most. The Gospel was spelled out from the very beginning, in the first 1/10th of the book of Genesis.
  5. OldCoot

    Defense of the Mid Trib Rapture

    Hold onto that thought. It might just pan out some day.
  6. OldCoot

    God in Ancient China

    Recently came across this video done in Singapore showing how the Early Chinese culture and language characters express the one true God of the Hebrew Bible. Definitely a captivating video and worth watching. God in Ancient China
  7. Not the Jesus of scripture, so no, they do not believe in Jesus Christ. Neither of those believe that Yeshua (Jesus) is the eternal God who came as a human child. LDS believes that Yeshua is the spirit brother of Satan. JW's believe that Yeshua is the archangel Michael. One has to have the right "Jesus" to claim they believe in Him. It is because the LDS and JW crowd doesn't believe Yeshua is the pre-existent, eternal God that they are not part of the bride.
  8. There is nothing in that passage that says He showed up later, as if He wasn’t there as you imply. The text only says that when John looked again, Yeshua (the Lamb) was in the midst of the throne. One cannot honestly assert He wasn’t there before John saw Him. but then, some folks think there are little green men on Mars and the moon is Swiss cheese.
  9. And, just because Yeshua was not seen by John right off the bat in Revelation 4 does not mean He wasn't there. I am sure there are a lot of things that were going on that John didn't specifically reference. It is like looking at first at a image in a telescope. At first something just looks like a star, but when you zoom in, you find out it is a galaxy. The first thing John saw was the overall picture of the throne, the 24 thrones around it, and the 4 creatures that surrounded the throne. Just because John didn't mention Yeshua in all that doesn't mean He wasn't there. To base a doctrinal position on something not mentioned is pretty shoddy exegesis.
  10. OldCoot

    Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

    All well and good except there are two elect groups. Believers and the Hebrews. The confusion comes when people equate the word "elect" with "saved". The focus of Matthew 24 is not the world, or believers, but “those in Judea” per Matthew 24:26. And the “elect” are the Hebrew people. It is believer arrogance that equates “elect” with only “saved”. Also further along, the “elect” are the remaining Hebrews. We can know that because in Isaiah, YHVH calls the Hebrews His elect, Paul says that the gifts and calling on them are irrevocable, and Matthew 25 (sheep and goat judgement) is a exposition by Yeshua on Joel 3 regarding the nations being judged on how they treated the Hebrew people. Yeshua is telling them this on the Mt of Olives that overlooks the Valley of Jehoshaphat that Joel 3 is talking about. The entire chapter is directed at Hebrews. For instance, in the parable of the virgins, they are not the church, the bride is. The wedding feast/reception is going on. That happens even today AFTER the groom and bride are married (not during or prior to the wedding), and in Yeshua’s time, 7 days after the wedding and the period of time in the Chupah (wedding chamber) of only the groom and bride. A good study of the Jewish wedding, especially in the days of Yeshua, clears a lot of this stuff up. The actual marriage and consumption of the marriage is a private deal. The groom comes unannounced and gets his bride. He then takes her back to his Father's house where he has prepared a place for them. They spend 7 days in the Chupah, or wedding chamber, consummating the marriage. Then they both come forth and then the wedding feast, along with guests, starts. Simple illustration of Yeshua and His Bride, the Church. You can find this sort of stuff in many works of 1st century Jewish tradition. You know... the time that Yeshua was expressing these things. Some abusive bible teachers have tried to use that parable to beat believers over the head and put them on a guilt trip. Shameful. And (Matthew 24:14) who is it that preaches the Gospel to all the world? According to Revelation 14:6 says it is an angel that accomplishes that. Not the Church (removed prior) nor the 144K Hebrews, nor the Two Witnesses. Many erroneously put believers/Church in the middle of chapters 24-25 when they are not the focus of the dissertation.
  11. OldCoot

    Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

    And where does He take those elect when He gathers them? But then also, it begs the question, which elect are we talking about being gathered? Isaiah says that Jacob (Israel) is God's elect. Also, Paul in Romans says that the believers are God's elect, and Paul does in no place state that Jacob (Israel) is no longer God's elect, but insists that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me. Romans 8:33-34 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Romans 11:26-29 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. The elect are gathered from the 4 winds of the earth in Matthew 24 by angels, but that is not how Paul describes the believers being caught up to be with the Lord. Paul says that we will be changed and caught up. He does not state that the believers are gathered by angels. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. And Isaiah seems to mirror that.... Isaiah 26:19-21 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. 21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain. Psalms 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock. Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob's trouble, But he shall be saved out of it. John 14:2-3 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. Notice how Yeshua says "receive" as opposed to "gather". Different words with substantially different meanings. "Receive" matches what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians and even matches up with what Isaiah wrote. Even in Isaiah it does not say "gathered". It says "come". And many scholars associated the "time of Jacob's Trouble" as being the 70th week of Daniel which, like the previous 69 weeks of Daniel, are literal weeks of years. Thus, a 7 year period is the 70th week of Daniel. But the scripture says the righteous are hidden in the Lord's pavilion at that time. So one can argue somewhat the timing before the tribulation and judgement of those who dwell on the earth, but it leaves little doubt that the removal of the righteous happens before.
  12. OldCoot

    which Gospel to start with?

    LOL. Yeah, but take heart..... the entire Bible originally had no chapter or verse divisions. Those came later. Thank God for little blessings!
  13. OldCoot

    which Gospel to start with?

    I usually suggest John first also, unless the person is from a Jewish background, then I suggest Matthew first. John cuts right to the point and shows Jesus as God. To the Jewish mind, seeing the Messiah as fulfillment of the promise is paramount, and Matthew tackles that right out of the gate with the lineages and such. John shows a veiled lineage of Jesus also, but in His divinity. "In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God". Then for either.. I recommend Luke next as it really brings out Jesus' humanity. Where Matthew shows Jesus lineage thru the male line of King David which was cursed later (Jeconiah) that no one from the line would reign as king again, Luke shows that thru another son of David that the lineage of Jesus thru Mary makes Him eligible for the throne of David. That goes back to a situation Moses found himself in in determining who the inheritance would go to if there was no son. That it would go to the daughters of Zelophehad. It set the standard that when there was no son that would get the inheritance, it could be passed on thru the daughter. So it is established, no matter what way one approaches it, that Jesus is indeed the Messiah that is the rightful heir to the kingship of David and He is not only of the lineage of David, but the one, true God who has come to redeem us to Himself.
  14. In Acts, the Bereans "searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul taught them was true". The only scriptures at that time were the OT. So it makes the case that the NT is in the OT concealed and the OT is in the NT revealed. It also supports the Torah requirement that any matter can only be established on the testimony of two witnesses. Those two being the OT and the NT. All doctrine is in both testaments. Any doctrine that cannot be established from both testaments comes into question. Even the birth, death, burial, resurrection of Yeshua is in the OT, and in even more detail than in the NT. Even the very name of the Messiah was given in the OT. And Peter, even having been an eye witness of Yeshua, stated that there was the more sure word of Prophecy regarding Yeshua. The probabilities of Him fulfilling all the prophecies are mathematically astronomical and that is more sure evidence of Yeshua than even Peter's first hand experience. And those prophecies that prove Yeshua is who He said He was are all located in the OT. Many of the passages in the NT presuppose that the reader is familiar with the OT. There are a myriad of references to the OT in the NT. Just like High School presupposes that the person attending has been to grade school, so the NT in many locations assumes the reader is familiar with the OT. It is the lack of studying the OT that many NT readers stumble in certain areas like Revelation or miss little nuances that are said.
  15. Isaiah 44:6 (NKJV) “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. Revelation 2:8 (NKJV) “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
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