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OldCoot

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About OldCoot

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  • Birthday 01/12/1957

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  1. OldCoot

    3-1/2 year trib/ NOT 7

    I'll say this, you sure have a vivid imagination! I'll stick with something that as stood the test of time and is not quite as complicated. A little "golden rule" of Scripture Hermeneutics.... "when the plain sense of a passage makes common sense, then seek no other sense". Then we will both be happy in our study of the Word.
  2. It comes down to what one perceives as a "coming". Coming to gather the redeemed or coming back to earth to rule. And the coming to earth to rule is in view, the man of sin / antichrist, the gentiles, or anything else has nothing to do with that return. Only when Jacob/Israel realizes its offense of rejecting Yeshua and repent and petition for His return will He then return. He stated so in Hosea and He reaffirmed that in Matthew. If the coming for the redeemed is in view, then the redeemed should have no clue who the man of sin / antichrist is according to Paul. Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri in Israel said that Yeshua is the Messiah. At his death he left a note stating as such. He left instructions that the note could not be opened for one full year after his death. The reason is a obscure Chassidic thing that one cannot speak evil of someone who has been dead a year. Either way, it caused a shake out in the Orthodox community. Some of Kaduri's students are now believers. You can find videos online of their testimony. To me at least, it is stuff like this that causes me to know the end of the age is at hand and Messiah is coming quickly. I really don't concern myself with who is the antichrist or when he shows up. I keep my eye on what the Hebrew people are up to, and when I see stuff like Kaduri happening, I know things are wrapping up.
  3. OldCoot

    3-1/2 year trib/ NOT 7

    We bit of a problem though. If the Daniel 9:27 reference is back to the Messiah and not a different character, then the people of the prince who is to come would then the Hebrew people that destroyed the city and the sanctuary? Would not make sense. Messiah is called nagiyd and the same word is used after the people, and if they are referring to the same character, the means the people of the Messiah destroyed the city and the sanctuary. No, I will stick with how I and many, many expositors and scholars have seen this text over the centuries. You are more than welcome to view it how you want. I try my best to follow the Hermeneutical maxim also known as the "Golden Rule of Scripture Interpretation" that "when the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, then seek no other sense.".
  4. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    Well, you might not have brought it up, but Yeshua sure spent a lot of discourse talking about the Hebrew marriage and equating it to Him and the redeemed. Sure, He didn't elaborate a lot on the details, but then the audience He was speaking to was very familiar with the Hebrew marriage. So a study of what a Hebrew marriage was during that period is a good idea to grasp all that Yeshua is alluding to.
  5. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    Man, you really need to do some reading. This one is soooo basic..... Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
  6. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    Revelation 2 does not apply. That is part of the letters to the churches.... the redeemed prior to the tribulation period. Revelation 7:14-17 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
  7. OldCoot

    3-1/2 year trib/ NOT 7

    No, the he of V27, using basic grammar structure is referring to the prince who is to come that is related to the people who destroy the city and the sanctuary. Not the Messiah. Yes, the OT saints were resurrected "after" Yeshua, not with Yeshua. Read Matthew 27 just a little more slowly. But those saints are not called a royal priesthood like Peter calls the redeemed of the Body of Messiah. 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; And it is the priesthood that David divided into 24 courses or divisions in 1 Chronicles 24.
  8. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    But the other discussion about the wedding and the righteous being hidden from that time does.
  9. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    Wrong. The marriage feast is after the bride and the groom have spent 7 days in the Chupah and emerge as one. It is attended to by many people, not just the bride and the groom. You really should study the ancient Hebrew wedding since Yeshua is so fond of using it as an illustration.
  10. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    Well, not according to David and Isaiah! You would be correct regarding trials and tribulations that are common to all, even the unGodly. But the final tribulation period coming upon the earth is a unique circumstance. Psalms 27:5 For in the time of trouble (See Jeremiah 30:7) He shall hide me in His pavilion; In the secret place of His tabernacle He shall hide me; He shall set me high upon a rock. Isaiah 26:19-21 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. 21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain. John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions (chambers); if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
  11. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    And you should study Isaiah 26 where the gates are opened. And the rest of the chapter is about the righteous being hidden during the tribulation period. And David writes quite clearly that during the time of trouble (see Jeremiah 30) being hidden the tabernacle of the Lord.... Psalms 27:5 For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavilion; In the secret place of His tabernacle He shall hide me; He shall set me high upon a rock. And Isaiah 26 talks about the righteous (dead and living) will be hidden in their chambers during this time upon the earth. And Yeshua alludes to that in John 14. So you are right to see the Temple is view, but not the correct application. The virgins are not the bride. The are awaiting the groom, but they are not the bride. So they are not the redeemed. In the ancient Hebrew marriage, the groom betroths the bride and returns to his place. Then he comes back to gather his bride to him, no virgins/bridesmaids are part of that. The groom waits outside for his bride to come out to him. Then they both return to his place to enter the marriage chamber and stay there for 7 days. Then they both emerge. It is this that the virgins/bridesmaids are looking for. Then the marriage feast begins. And it is the marriage feast that is the timing of the parable of the 10 virgins. These virgins are an allusion to Matthew 25, where the nations are gathered and separated into the sheep and goats. That is a discourse by Yeshua on Joel 3.
  12. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    Then who are the saints that are prevailed over during that time? As per Revelation 13 and Daniel 7.
  13. OldCoot

    3-1/2 year trib/ NOT 7

    Daniel 9:27 seems pretty clear. And since the guy in the first seal is conquering with what appears to be agreements/treaties/covenants as alluded to by the bow in the reference instead of military conquest, it would be "logical" to equate the two passages as meaning the same dude. And in Daniel 9:27, that confirmed covenant is abrogated at the middle of that week of years. The "he" that is confirming the covenant is a reference to last person in the previous verse.... "the prince who is to come". Not the Messiah who was mentioned earlier. It is a different issue that this one, but the 24 elders also show that the redeemed are at the throne when the 1st seal is opened. There has been much speculation on who these 24 elders are. but since Revelation is 404 verses with over 800 references to the OT, it might be wise to check there. In 1 Chronicles 24, David divides the priests into 24 courses or divisions. Now, Peter is quite clear that the redeemed are a royal priesthood. Messiah will rule in the authority of King David, so it is not a stretch to see the redeemed as a the royal priesthood in 24 divisions as represented by the 24 Elders. So that yet again is another marker that suggests the redeemed are removed prior to any seals, and by extension, any part of that time of Jacob's trouble / tribulation period.
  14. OldCoot

    United Methodists to Vote on LGBTQ Issues

    Ok. I see what is going on. Everything is a conspiracy. Enjoy.
  15. OldCoot

    Why Pretrib Logic Fails

    But you stated that tribulation saints is not mentioned. Neither is trinity. The concept of the trinity is there. and so is the concept of the tribulation saints. Just like the concept of the rapture and a host of other things that are not "mentioned" by name in scripture.
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